Sunday, January 15, 2012

Discussion on Prabhavishnu falldown

Manu Dasa Lawrence: Ughhhhh another ISKCON sannyasi falldown. Soooo 3 seasons ago. Sick and tired of all the adulation they get while being hypocrites. I know my faults and qualities. At least I can admit I am a bad devotee. Should not take a scandal either to do so. Will anything ever change in ISKCON, anybody? I have so lost hope... Meanwhile, misogynists like Bhakti Vikas Swami and Bhakti Vidya Purna swami keep women at the back of the temple and away from seva, kids badly treated in the temple without any facilities for them, hatred of people of different persuasions abound. We drift further and further away from Srila Prabhupada's mood. Ant those haters I mentioned above, its like they never met Prabhupada, and ISKCON just becomes another patriarchal Hindu society. I have been waiting to see changes since I am young, I am doubtful. Ok Rant officially over.  Oh and the worst is that GBC leaders will bring up that verse that says we cant fault them, cuz of all the service etc. UHHHH rationalization much?

Kamal Vyas: Best to remain not too much affected, other than helping or being available as friends for the kids / devotees affected, and remain sweet and steady / focused inward in our own spiritual lives. These stories will continue.

Manu Dasa Lawrence: Just step down, get married and get laid. simple and honest. You are right Kamal Vyas. It is just the initial shock of yet another scandal. forgive me :)

Kamal Vyas: None of these things surprise me anymore, I guess. Human nature is disappointing, yup some of them need to really step down before causing controversy, (haha good luck with that), but at least come clean, and step down. There are more that may do so over time. In any case, stay strong.

Manu Dasa Lawrence: Thanks my friend. I am strong in my personal relationship with Krsna and have always loved Prabhupada, just kinda sick at the sight of certain "pure devotee" sannyasis. Honestly I have met so many mean gurus in my life, it is pretty ironic for a religion based on love and devotion!

Arne Sindt: hahah. Manu :)

Manu Dasa Lawrence: lol

Kamal Vyas: Reminds me of Haridas Thakur-ji who sat outside a lowly hut in Puri next to a Banyan tree, to chant, because he could not go into the Jagannath temple. He was beyond politics, beyond religion.

Manu Dasa: Lawrence: namacharya srila haridas thakur ki...

Niscala Devi Dasi: I don't know who has fallen down, and I don't care. Srila Prabhupada wanted that no sannyasi falldown ever become public knowledge- so the fallen sannyasi does not lose hope and leave out of embarrassment. How kind he was- and how cruel and frivolus gossipers we have become. Don't read such vicious gossip, regardless of whether or not it is true, don't try to find out who fell down, out of curiosity, even- control your minds! Don't speak a word of it, write of it or refer to it. . Don't care for it. Srila Prabhupada's orders. ‎"There but for the grace of God, go I" The end of self-righteousness. I love it.

Anitra ShriMama Cole: I so feel this / you brother....

Sowmya Srijenu-Lauture:
These kind of atrocities can only happen in India!! Sooo much scandal, and some people really abuse of their power! So sad! And I wanted to comment on one of previous comments, where someone said no to be a gossipers, and not talk about the ones that fell. I agree to your sayings and respect it, but you will have a different point of view if someone u know has severly been abused by a sannyasi. I think it's better to talk about it and pray on it for things to get better. Srila Prabhupada would have never let this slide... NEVER !!!

Manu Dasa Lawrence: I agree, talking about things is crucial. To "not speak of them" is just repression. There is also a huge difference between gossiping about a serious issue and addressing it. One is childish the other conducive to progress. No offense of disrespect to Srila Prabhupada, but to sweep something under the rug just isnt the way to go. I believe iskcon is testimony to that fact.

Akunthita Jones: I agree, talking about it is crucial, especially since things are rarely black and white. I read the letter that he wrote regarding his falldown and since I don't know him personally I could be wrong but I don't see a hypocrite. I see a sincere soul who tried and succeeded (for a time) to rise to a position and then was unable to keep up the standard. Actually Srila Prabhupada said that you should not take sannyasa in kali yuga. I think that we should just pray for each other. For how many lifetimes have we been engaged in serving our senses? How many will it take us to refocus? We must remember to be compassionate. There but for Krishna's grace go I.

Manu Dasa Lawrence: I agree akunthita, I think his letter is somewhat sincere, although I do not care for blaming some things on traveling so much etc. and i also agree about not taking sannyas in kali yuga, actually grhastas should be the head of society. thanks for the wise words akunthita :)\

Niscala Devi Dasi: To Sowmya - criticism has to be done out of a sense of compassion. In the case of fall down of a sannyasi, where he has hurt no one but himself, then we must be compassionate and kind, for the sense of shame must be very great. If he has the heart of a demon, and has taken pleasure in abusing children, hurting chidren, inflicting npain, then in this case, the sense of compassion is for those whom he has abused. Out of compassion for them, who can be suffering severely, we must angrily criticize, insist he be stripped of position and authority over children especially, and given a simple task that will threaten no one, that will gradually purify his heart, such as washing pots. He misused power and position, so he should be given a service which has neither. He should also beg to be of service to his victims and their families- for if he is to make advancement, he MUST get their forgiveness (re Durvasa and Aamabarish story) Otherwise he will face the wrath of the sudarshan chakra (unless we believe this story is just a cute little anecdote with no meaning)

Sowmya Srijenu-Lauture: Niscala mataji... if this happened to your child, would you not want justice? I personally know someone who has been in this situation, and the poor child is now just not all there in her mind. She fears people and acts strangely. Her mother's heart shatters everytime she sees her daughter and wish she could just give this bad person a good lesson. 

Honestly, had this happened to my child... Krishna help his soul, because i would hunt him down and give him a treatment of his own medicine. And I disagree when you say that we should make him do service afterwards to teach him a lesson.... like what? Scrubing the bathrooms with a toothbrush? Ya right... i would forbid such negative people around me. I dont even want his shadow near me! Ok maybe u think im a harsh person, but we live in a bad bad world, where people abuse of power, and try to screw every person possible. Theres no place for honestly... this is kali yuga.

In the times of Srila Prabhupada, ppl would be more compassionate and understand... but its different.nowadays. and all that you said would be totally true mataji ! That's why i was saying that we need to make ppl aware of such atrocities for it not to happen to other people. Its bad enough he ruined peoples lives, and now we need to give him a chance? Do u think those abused children would get another chance to have a normal life? I hope nobody goes thru this... its an awful experience that bruises you for life.

Oscar A Mendez: Manu your sincerity is inspiring and most welcome. I wish all the best to your wife Satarupa Dasi Nadine, your son Nikunja and your good self ♥ Hara Govinda ♥

PADA: Srila Prabhupada ordered in January of 1977, no more sannyasa, you ISKCON leaders are NOT FIT FOR SANNYASA and are making a laughing stock of sannyasa -- and you leaders are giving ISKCON a bad public image, so get married. Then after 1977 people like Prabhavishnu not only made 250 more sannyasas, defying the direct order to halt that process, Prabhavishnu and his pals said these sannyasas are full-blown self-realized acharyas, Vishnupadas, Krishnapadas, Gurupadas (aka messiahs) and so forth. 

They are not only sannyasa, they are messiahs who can absorb sins like Jesus. So if they are not fit for sannyasa, they are fit to take the role of acharyas / messiahs / the next Jesus for ISKCON? And then in 1978, when we said there is a children molesting program going on, we were kicked out in 1979 because we were "offending the pure devotee acharyas." The children abuse then went on unchecked. 

Now is Niscala saying, we should not have criticized that program? We should simply allow false messiahs to create mass molesting program for thousands of children? Well that is why these children were molested, apologists like Niscala defended the GBC guru regime with all of its criminal enterprise of out croppings, including mass children molesting. No, we have to expose false messiahs, especially when children are being exploited. The apologists are the co-dependents of the criminal empire. 

Niscala has failed to explain since 1977, since they are not fit for sannyasa, how did they become 230 voted in / appointed parampara messiahs? And since they were never appointed as gurus, they never fell down from guru, they were not gurus in the first place. How can I fall down from being the president of the United States, when I am not the president in the first place? Niscala has simply accepted the dogma that these people are sannyasa and guru, when we were ordered, to shut down the sannyasa program, and if they are not FIT FOR sannyasa, as Prabhupada said they are not, how can they be fit for messaihs? And since all this produced mass molesting, why is there no remorse for supporting this regime on the part of the Niscalas sabha? ys pd


  1. Dear Niscala,

    You err when you state that he hurt no one but himself.

    You can't be serious.

    Usually you are on the ball, but here you have dropped it.

    Look around and hear the anguished cries of the cheated disciples who slaved to serve and fund their 'guru', all the while he was cruising in Thailand.

    Will he return our money? Now that would show some REAL remorse. He has been living off us for DECADES. Our families shed blood collecting for him!

    And what do we hear? Not a tiny sound from Prabhavisnu of any attempt at restitution. This is the offensive mentality. When a false guru falls away, we become soooo concerned.

    Well, what about the congregation!

    Your concerns are misplaced. Don't forget about the cheated ranks.

    And what does he do? He tells us to repose our faith in the very same GBC body he himself blames for his predicament! No talk of repaying our money. Maybe we can then spend it on Krsna!

    Who paid for his houses? How much money does he have in the bank?

    Certainly you can see that the rank and file are also suffering because of his actions, no?

  2. Since ISKCONites are stuck on the level of personal interest they hardly can grasp the meaning of general welfare. Whenever a scandal gets public they are helplessly tossed back and forth, become a play of the waves of material energy. So basically nothing will change. Just like sometimes an entire chicken house is in an uproar, with chickens flying about, squawking, and clucking, and crystal yelling. Soon there will be peace again. ISKCONites are slow and unteachable so be sure, it will happen again. But meanwhile daily routine will return...things go back to normal.

  3. Ex-ISKCONites commenting

    Homer: Will the Great Devotee™ give back the money he scammed out of his flock?

    I personally know a devotee who bought him a house in Vrindavan and gave him hundreds of thousands of dollars. How many other fools gave this person large amounts of cash? He must be set for his retirement with his Thai lady in paradise.
    Let's see how genuine his remorse is when he hands over the cash.
    Do any of these bastards resign on their own accord because of personal shame or do the Transcendental Personalities™ who have appearance days rather than birthdays have to be busted before they fess up and step down?

    Darwin:Prabhavishnu Swami VyasaPuja Sadhu-Sanga 2011 part 7

    Prabhavishnu's youtube channel:

    ZVS: Are we sure she's an actual prostitute, or is this just devotee slang for a female whose morality does not constrain sexual activity to procreation by a married couple?

    If she is a prostitute, he would have paid for her with disciples' money, correct? They must feel how I feel when I realize my tax money has helped fund U.S. wars.

    Dhyana: Hello zvs, long time no see! Good to see you around!

    Regarding Prabhavisnu... I have only vague memories of him. So nondescript he seemed. No clear contours, at least from my vantage point which was never very close.

    Not cool for the disciples, to be let down like that -- but at least for them, it could be empowering, in the best case. It could be an eye opener about the the path they are on.

    It might be worse for Prabhavisnu himself. He and the other gurus are elderly men now. They joined young, and with a lot of enthusiasm otherwise they would have not gotten a name for themselves and the guru stamp of approval. They may have had interesting, colorful lives as gurus, with teaching and counseling challenges, admiration, travel, a place in the spotlight, and relative luxury (compared to the general ISKCON; I don't think they had too much opportunity to really enjoy the money they were given).

    But now... how old are these men on average? 65? Not much life left. They have risked a lot for spiritual progress. They renounced a lot, regardless the comfort. And now the whole enterprise is blowing up in their faces! Now when it is too late to change course and accomplish something else meaningful with your life. Left to deal with a mountain of shame and guilt (I assume they are not devoid of conscience).

    I think they are paying dearly for errors of judgment they made in an institution that set them up for erring.

    I imagine they are a bunch of sad, spent guys. Hope they can find some way to live their last years well. And some way to manage their thoughts and beliefs. It must be hellish to be Prabhavisnu if he still believes much of what Prabhupada has taught.

    Thai ladies who get together with Western men can be anything from prostitutes, call girls, holiday girlfriends, to wives. But it is very common the relationship is based on the man providing financial support to the woman or her relatives. It doesn't mean she isn't a nice person who really cares for the guy. But it isn't romantic love as we in the rich West think of it. Especially not if the man is Prabhavisnu's age.


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