Megha says: My parents are both initiated by Prabhavishnu Swami. And today I found them crying their eyes out like children, hearing that -- the guru they had taken shelter in -- had fallen. It has brought tears also to my eyes to see both my parents in such a distressing situation. Srila Prabhupada is our only shelter. JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA!
[PADA: Very nice, yes let all these foolish imitation acharyas fall by the wayside, and lets ALL take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. That is how we are winning this argument over time; As these gurus fall away one by one, we always pick up a certain amount of their ex-disciples to join our idea of worship of HDG Srila Prabhupada. Incidentally, there are a number of people down there who are really upset now in OZ / Australia. They are really not AT ALL happy how all this debauchery and prostitution behavior was COVERED UP for years and years by the bogus GBC. There are some folks there who now want to rout out and dismantle "the good ole boys club." Is about time! Of course they also covered up for Harikesha, Satsvarupa, Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Jayatirtha, Ramesvara, Hansadutta, Bhagavan, and so on and so forth, so this (cheating) process is now happening all over again, that's all. Megha has the right idea, worship the pure devotee and not these false messiahs! ys pd]
This is of course nice thinking, "now finally they come to take shelter at Prabhupada". Reality in Europe is that cheated ISKCON devotees end up to join GM. Not because they reject Prabhupada, but, simple, they require infrastructure, social life, temples, workplace, association. Basic things to survive in Western kali-yuga societies. Similiar phenomenon we find with Islam. People join because of social reason. So once more, the GBC is doing nothing but whipping thoses cheated devotees into GM camps.
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ReplyDeleteThe mayavadis and impersonalist renounce material affairs( exploitation) because It's giving them distress and embarked on the path of renunciation to be free or detached from these emotions. Both these paths exploitation and renunciation are detrimental to bhakti or dedication. In fact renunciation is worst off as it provides a kind of superiority over the other(exploitation), just like half truth is more dangerous than no truth.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly to escape the trouble of searching for, surrendering and serving a physical bona-fide Guru and for the fear of fall-down, some so called devotees accept a picture of Srila Prabhupada as Guru. Thus they are more dangerous and belong to a newly apa-sampradaya sect which had sprouted out as an reaction to the fall-down of Gurus, nothing-else. Shasta's concept of Guru-tattva is very much different, and devotees shouldn't be fooled by the this so called "Prabhupada sentiments" a kind of Jesus like figure being erected. This is not vaishnavanism.
Jaiva Dharma Chapter 12 explains;
"Human nature is such that when one develops faith in a particular subject, he will naturally feel regard for the teachers of that subject. Moreover, for various reasons, common people do not easily develop faith in exalted personalities who are still living, whereas they tend to develop great faith in the activities of mahäjanas who have passed away."
sdas
if this makes sense to you then you've lost the plot been cheated or are being cheated,
ReplyDeleteeveryone in iskcon has to follow authority meaning material authority the person holding a post weather spiritually qualified or not? and or material authority is the same as spiritual authority, don't be fooled read prabhupads books
for material purposes some times we have to follow whoever to get paid our wages so we can eat,
but spiritually we have a choice and if we make the wrong choice we starve spiritually
if you cant discriminate between spiritual material theres little hope unless you seriously surrender to krsna who will reveal what to do in the heart of the sincere soul,
i am trying my best i hope all the members of sri chaytanyas sankertan movement are surrendering in the right direction,
srla prabhupada explains in his purports the correct thinking the ways to advance and be happy
bg ch 10 text 10
TRANSLATION;
To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.
last paragraph of purport;
A person may have a bona fide spiritual master and may be attached to a spiritual organisation, but still, if he is not intelligent enough to make progress, then Kṛṣṇa from within gives him instructions so that he may ultimately come to Him without difficulty. The qualification is that a person always engage himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and with love and devotion render all kinds of services. He should perform some sort of work for Kṛṣṇa, and that work should be with love. If a devotee is not intelligent enough to make progress on the path of self-realization but is sincere and devoted to the activities of devotional service, the Lord gives him a chance to make progress and ultimately attain to Him.
gaura
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Right, as soon as I said that Jayatirtha was not a guru because he was smoking pot and having illicit sex, Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja began to defend the GBC gurus saying, you need a living guru and Jayatirtha is a living guru. They forgot something, a living debauchee is not a living guru, he is a living debauchee. ys pd
ReplyDeleteDear krishna1008
ReplyDeleteSrila Sridhara Maharaj and Srila Naryayana Maharaj did not defend GBC Guru. Don't be fooled by those whose intelligence are conditioned by sentiments. Srila Sridhara Maharaj who is considered as a Guardian of devotion" a title given by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvate Thakur entrusted him to guard the sampradaya. He requested the GBC that;
1. New Gurus should go out and form their own institutions as a sub-branch to Iskcon, they will have their own disciples and own privacy. This will enable the prospective Gurus to solely depend on Krishna as they are on their own.
2. The rest of them who are not Gurus should maintain Srila Prabhupada's 108 temples and Iskcon. Those new Gurus who are successful in preaching , who are having their own institutions outside can come together and sit in a GBC for Iskcon. The Seat of an acharya remains vacant in Iskcon. Until among them one may be fully qualified and effulgent he can then take the seat of an acharya in Iskcon. This was his vision.
After the passing-away of Srila Sridhara Maharaj in 1988, Its no wonder, groups like Prabhupanuga and Rittviks started sprouting up. The Guardian had left. Diksa must be taken from a living Guru. Srila Prabhupada in his books had clearly stated in numerous verses. But this living Bona-fide Guru is rare. That does not mean we take Srila Prabhupada as Guru. This is actually worst than having a kanistha Guru. Do not be fooled by those who are motivated and affected by this down syndrome called "Prabhupada Syndrome"
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada, he has done the unthinkable, in his books, he clearly says; GO AND SEARCH OUT A BONA-FIDE GURU without giving considerations to even Institutions.
In the purport of Adi 1.35 Srila Prabhupada quotes from Jiva Goswami;
“Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions. One should simply try to find a genuinely qualified spiritual master for actual advancement in spiritual understanding.”
Ecclesiastical conventions means institutions. Hereditary can also means, just because this person is a disciple of this prominent acarya, therefore I accept him. So many devotees are guilty of these, putting these considerations and its no wonder some got Gurus who later fall-down. What is more dangerous than all these is accepting a previous acarya as Guru who is no longer physically around and thinking they have Guru. This certainly contradicts shastra and cutting them off from association of a genuine bona-fide Guru and thus they cannot receive the mercy of Sri Krsna
Thank you
Dear S das, In 1978 Sridhara Maharaja was the ghost writer of many GBC papers, including the 1978 GBC report. Much of their report was later printed as the book "Sri Guru And His Grace," the texts are identical. Sridhara maharaja also helped Satsvarupa write a paper "proving" that gurus sometimes fall down, entitled "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties," a paper which "explains away" all the GBC guru deviations as bona fide. OK, it offends the mahajanas.
ReplyDeleteSM fully supported the 11 as gurus, and this is well documented. As for all this starting in 1988, no we were writing papers even in 1978? Later SM told the GBC to vote in more gurus every year at Mayapura, which they are doing now.
In 1979 I said that Jayatirtha was bogus for taking drugs and having illicit sex. The GBC went to Sridhara Maharaja and he was told about this, and he said Jayatirtha has to continue or this will destroy the faith of the sisyas. Sridhara Maharaja also said "none should protest" people like Jayatirtha. I know because I heard the audio tape at the time because they wanted me to know, SM says -- you should not protest. So SM was told there were protestors (like me) and he told us to keep quiet. This was confirmed when we read the transcripts.
In June of 1980 Ramesvara wanted to resign and Sridhara Maharaja said he could not do so, and he did not, and this is why he eventually was involved in the murder of Sulochana dasa.
In December of 1980 Tamal and Hansadutta were being suspended, and Sridhara Maharaja defended them and made another audio tape with Satsvarupa which was sent to all ISKCON centers saying, these two also have to stay in the post of guru.
Even by 1975 when Hansadutta went to SM and told him he was taking drugs and having illicit sex with half dozen women, SM told him, stay in the guru seat. I know because I was living in Berkeley at the time, and this was going on there, and Hansadutta was giving people SM's writings.
As for Narayana Maharaja, in 1978 he also told Jayadvaita that the 11 are gurus, and this was published by the GBC at the time. Later on NM was always propping up the GBC gurus, hanging out with them all along. And NM defended the GBC gurus in public in the 1990 ISKCON Journal. (In 1990 the GBC gurus were getting ghost busted by Chiteshvara).
There was of course the now infamous gopi rasika problem which NM was heading up with these gurus.
In 1997, NM met me at Venice beach and he personally invited me to meet with him at his ashram to speak to me in person, but after I drove to his ashram later, he cancelled my 8am meeting with him. Then he cancelled our next meeting, then the next, then the next, so I waited for 10 hours to speak to him and he simply sneaked out the back door and left the property without seeing me for one moment even.
This is not at all what vaishnava etiquette is?
So this is what happened, Sridhara maharaja and Narayana Maharaja both defended these GBC gurus. Also in 1997 the NM folks gave me a booklet, "Guru Tattva" with a photo of NM on the cover. In the book it says "there was nothing wrong with Ananta Vasudeva being made the acharya in 1936." There is "nothing wrong" with homosexuals who have dissenters killed, being the guru? Why is this not wrong? ys pd
muktanam api siddhanam narayana-parayanah sudurlabah prasantatma kotisv api maha-mune
ReplyDelete"Out of thousands of perfected souls, it is very rare to find one that is a pure devotee of God." Srimad-Bhagavatam (6.14.5)
Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says;
“Sridhara Maharaja lived in my house for many years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good advisor. I took his advices and instructions very seriously, because from the very beginning I knew he was a pure Vaisnava, a pure devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and I tried to help him also. Our relationship is very intimate. 730317RC.MAY
Please refute Srila Prabhupada’s above statement and say that. "Yes Srila Prabhupada was wrong about him".
There were a lot of mis-conception about Sril Sridhara Maharaj, its dangerous to hear from those who are sentimentalist.
Dear S da, OK, now you have changed the subject entirely and avoided the whole issue; i.e. you said that Sridhara maharaja and Narayana maharaja did not support the GBC as gurus, when clearly, they did. And as a result of their supporting the GBC gurus, many people were beaten, molested and killed, just like when SM supported a bogus guru in 1936 -- dissenters were ALSO beaten an killed.
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada also said, of all my disciples, only Ramesvara is the most intelligent. Do you think that later when RS was running off and dating a minor aged girl, this is intelligent? Or does Srila Prabhupada often give people credit out of humility? SP also also said Jayatirtha is my tirtha, so we should all take LSD and have sex with the wives of disciples? No, it means you cannot take one quote out of context.
Srila Prabhupada also said that SM destroyed the Gaudiya Matha by "insisting" on making a bogus person the guru. Srila Prabhupada said of the three men who supported Ananta Vasudeva, SM, Madhava maharaja, and Professor Sannyal, only Professor Sannyal was killed immediately after 1936 BY KRISHNA, to stop him from commiting the offense of promoting a false guru. He said, Professor Sannyal was thus more dear than the other two because Krishna did not kill them. So Krishna killed one of the three, because he was more dead to Krishna.
Are you saying that making false gurus and having Krishna get angry that he wants to kill people for that offense, is "pure"? No, Srila Prabhupada said many things to encourage others, that does not mean that Jayatirtha is our tirtha, it means he says nice things to encourage others, thats all. SP also said SM is the leader of the severe offenders Bagh Bazaar party. Why don't you also quote these quotes? Anyway, you failed to answer, and this is also why Narayana Maharaja did not meet with me, he could not answer even one of my questions, he avoided and now you are avoiding. ys pd
I had opportunity to shop around for a guru after being totally snubbed by Ramesvara, Mukunda, and others at San Diego and Los Angeles. Let me guess why. Jayatirtha and his sweet wife and his crazy mushroom-eating-disciple-hangers-on in Sonoma county, then finally found a true preceptor of vaishnavism up in Oregon. Hanging out with Agnideva Prabhu, Swami BV Tripurari, away from the politics of the grand society, both very dear to Srila BV Swami Prabhupada and Srila BR Sridhar Deva Goswami. There must be some who remained gurus in Iskcon who are teaching everyday with pure heart as well? No? The internet makes guru shopping much easier of a task! haribol!
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