Friday, July 31, 2015

More Trouble in Brooklyn ISKCON (update)

Placing roadblocks for others who want to go to Krishna?

ISKCON Brooklyn: Falling Standards


[PADA: OK but you are a disciple of Satsvarupa Das Goswami, who helped create all the false gurus and their falling standards in the first place. Then he supported, enabled, empowered and sustained all these hokey gurus. Thus the first issue is, why has your guru SDG been saying that all these fools and even debauchees are Krishna's guru successors?]

ISKCON Brooklyn: Falling standards, family / clique control, apparent racism and spying - or business as usual in Brooklyn.
After approximately a six year absence due to my work schedule I have recently spent time at Radha Govinda Mandira. For the past few months I have been visiting the ISKCON facility located in downtown Brooklyn on Sunday evenings and attending the programs there.

[PADA: This another big problem, many or even most devotees are too busy with their "karmi jobs" to be able to visit these temples regularly, or even at all, because SDG's program removed, exiled or kicked most of them out. After SDG's program removed most of the devotees who were following and maintaining the standards, then there was no one left to maintain these standards. And after being removed by the SDG program, then they had to get jobs to support themselves. So now there was nothing left but the remaining foxes watching the chicken house.] 

The purpose for visiting a temple of Krsna is for spiritual purification - a place to take shelter of the Lord and the Vaisnavas. It is supposed to be an oasis in the midst of the material world where one may cleanse the heart and rejuvenate the soul. It is supposed to be a place of pilgrimage.

This is no longer the case in Brooklyn.

Sunday Feast Kirtana - Let me start with the kirtana - the congregational chanting of the holy names - HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE / HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

Sandhya-arati is part of the evening program and an ISKCON tradition and part of that tradition is the chanting of the Gaura-arati prayers - the glorification of the beautiful arati ceremony of Lord Chaitanya. I can speak from personal experience that this was a part of the Sunday program in Brooklyn since its inception in the 1980's, but in recent years it is no longer chanted. I don't know if this is an ISKCON-wide policy. I do know it is absent here.

Then there is the chanting of the Nrsimha prayers. In Brooklyn only Ramabhadra dasa leads these prayers. This has been going on since he took the presidency of the temple. Everyone sits during the chanting - except Ramabhadra dasa. Is he physically incapable of sitting on the floor with the rest of the devotees? Is this a physical manifestation of a false-ego desire to be recognized as the indisputable "king of the castle" and literally "head and shoulders and more" above everyone else?

And now for something new - his chanting of the Nrsimha prayers is accompanied by a devotee standing next to him playing a saxophone. Has the saxophone been recently approved by the GBC or some higher authority as an authorized musical instrument for the glorification of the Deities in the temple room? Chanting in public is different. We have seen different musical instruments used on Harinama on the streets. Isn't there supposed to be a higher standard in the temple room? Is this pleasing to Sri Sri Radha Govinda? Is this pleasing to Srila Prabhupada?

Sunday Feast Lecture - When I visit the temple I want to hear Krsna katha. I don't go the temple to watch a video or a photographic slide show. I can do that at home. I want to hear a devotee speaking about Krsna. I want to hear - the first and most important of the nine processes of devotional service - sravanam. It is basic. Sound vibration is the best and most powerful way to learn.

If you want to hear a lecture about Krsna or Lord Chaitanya or Srila Prabhupada or the Vaisnava saints, don't go to the Brooklyn temple. There were only two lectures given in the few months that I visited. Romapada Swami gave a lecture about Lord Chaitanya and how He glorified trees, but even that lecture ended with a twenty minute non-devotional video about trees. 

The saxophone devotee also gave a lecture recently. Every other night the devotees sat in the temple room watching either a video or a slideshow presentation. Everyone just sits there staring at the screen. Hypnotized. Mesmerized. There is no interaction. There is no sravanam kirtanam. There is no real "live" teaching about Krsna consciousness.

nitya-siddha krsna-prema 'sadhya' kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

"Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting (emphasis added), the living entity naturally awakens."(Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 22.107)

This appears to be an example of the laziness of the temple authorities. Are they too lazy to prepare a class? It is much easier to press a button and sit back and do nothing. You don't have to think or plan or use any intelligence or expend any energy in Krsna's service. The claim may be made by the temple authorities that there aren't enough qualified persons to help. 

That argument is nullified by the simple fact that the temple authorities have chased all the qualified devotees away. 

[PADA: Right, Satsvarupa's first program was to remove all the qualified devotees and replace them with his pals, ok deviants, crooks and criminals, and then ISKCON descended into mass criminality. That was his plan all along and he has never said anything about this process except, it was authorized -- trying to blame Krishna for his own misdeeds. Krishna did not want to kick out all the devotees and bring in a wave of motivated fools and criminals, SDG has done that.] 

Unless you are part of a few chosen families and their offspring and friends you cannot serve here in this temple. The same families have been running things here for years. This is common knowledge.

[PADA: Its corrupt, yes this is well known.]

This is also an example of the temple authorities over-reaching restrictions on allowing qualified brahmanas to give class. There are many who are qualified but because of the fear of someone mentioning something truthful / controversial like the many offensive changes to Srila Prabhupada's books or worship of fallen, voted-in "sannyasis", only a select few - the "politically correct" few - are allowed to speak.

[PADA: Hee hee, well yes, they cannot explain the history of their fallen acharyas process.]

Hints Of Racism -

The temple president and his wife have white Caucasian bodies. The few families that do service in the temple have brown Indian bodies or black African-American bodies. So how could there be any racial element here? The two white bodies rule. The brown and black bodies serve. The well-known philosophy of the two temple authorities is this - don't mix the races. It is okay for black to marry black and brown to marry brown and white to marry white. It is not okay for brown or black to marry white. 

[PADA: Well yes, there are "brown bodies" of ex-hindus all over the place, because they wanted to remove the Westerners and get some cheap adoration from these hindus, and that is why they fled the USA to mainly set up camp in India where no one knew about all their scandals over here in the West.]

There once was a brown body Bengali who cooked all the prasadam. He became engaged to a white body Mataji from Europe. The current temple president and his wife tried to convince him that it was a bad idea to mix the races. They warned the Bengali devotee that he would have to leave the temple if he went ahead with his plans to marry. The humble Bengali devotee asked them if they ever looked at who was on the altar in the temple room. Srimati Radharani is white and Sri Govinda is black. Needless to say, the humble Bengali devotee was told to leave.

[PADA: Right, of course there are other temples that have hired Bengalis to do the pooja. In one temple, some of these Bengalis go out to a doughnut shop to talk to the Western waitresses just after they do the mangala arotike. They sit there every day eating doughnuts and drinking coffee, chatting it up with the pretty waitresses. 

This begs the question, why has ISKCON become so dependent on this hired Bengali help? Anyway, maybe this Bengali man who wanted to marry a Western mataji was sincere, but he made the mistake of actually wanting to take care of himself -- and maybe then he and this woman would have been independent of the "authorities" by being married, that's not a good plan. Why is the GBC getting involved in almost everyone's married life in the first place?]  

Then there was the brown body devotee who was in charge of Life Membership. He also had the audacity to marry a white body Mataji. Gone. There is also a very qualified brahmana, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, who happens to have a black body, who gives lectures in numerous ISKCON temples but is denied by temple authorities the opportunity to give a lecture in Brooklyn. Prabhu, do you think the reason may have something to do with your black body son marrying a white body Mataji and having, God forbid, a mixed-race child?

I am the father of 3 mixed-race children. I have a white body and my wife had a brown body. Black, white, yellow, brown, regardless of pigment, they are all bodies belonging to the human race. Furthermore, what happened to the Krsna conscious philosophy that we are not these bodies?

There is also the past history of Ramabhadra dasa in the 1970's in Radha Govinda Mandira in Manhattan and his spreading nasty, hurtful, untruthful rumors about the black body vice-president of the temple and the arranged marriage to a white body Mataji. He was called out about his rumor mongering during an Isthaghosti by the GBC. 

There was also the very strange and offensive dance that Ramabhadra dasa used to perform during the Mangala-arati kirtanas in those days. A number of devotees complained about his pseudo-sexual gyrations in front of the Deities and the temple authorities put a stop to it. There is also the apparent refusal by Ramabhadra's wife, before she and Ramabhadra agreed to join forces, to an arranged marriage to a black body devotee. He was a very nice devotee and my god-brother.

Free Sunday Love Feast -

The older devotees know what the Sunday Love Feast is supposed to be - prasadam - ghee, two subjis, rice, halava, pakora or samosa, puri or chapati, chutney, nectar and sweet rice. It is NOT a feast without sweet rice.

If you are looking for that Free Sunday Love Feast don't go to Brooklyn. All you will find is kichari, halava and lemonade.

If you have money you can purchase expensive samosas and veggie burgers and pizza and cookies and cake and so on, which are sold right outside of the temple room. Additionally, all the best effort and premium bhoga resources of the temple are concentrated in their very profitable restaurant business.

And now a new requirement has been instituted in Brooklyn - you must have a ticket in order to receive a plate of prasadam. There was a special program to honor the recent passing of Sriman Jagat Pati prabhu. There was a video presentation in the temple room where you received a ticket which entitled you to a plate of prasadam. If you did not get a ticket, you did not get prasadam. This sets a precedent which may be used in the future. If you don't sit through a video or photo slideshow you won't be allowed to honor the "free" feast. That means it would no longer be free.

Spying -

Why does a temple of the Lord need to spy on the congregation? It is understandable that the use of security cameras is necessary to protect property. Is it also necessary to invade the privacy of the devotees? Is it also necessary to record both the audio and video of the humble Vaisnavas? What is the purpose? What are the authorities in this temple afraid of?

I had been warned that Ramabhadra dasa likes to watch and listen to the devotees via his security system. You can not feel safe revealing your mind in confidence when you are in this temple because someone is always watching and listening, and I am not talking about the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

I recently purchased a new phone with a new phone number. I only gave my number to 4 different persons. I did not give my phone number to anyone in the temple. On the night of the special program for Jagat Pati prabhu I did make the mistake of verbally giving my number to a devotee while standing in front of the entrance to the temple underneath one of the many security cameras. When I was on my way home that evening I received a voice message. It was an audio recording of my conversation in front of the temple.

Why would they do that?

I will not return to the temple in Brooklyn again. I will not be missed, I am sure. I will miss Sri Sri Radha Govinda. I would not have written this article under normal circumstances. I prefer to pray to Srila Prabhupada and Krsna to rectify the wrongs here. I do not want to offend the Vaisnava devotees but the truth must be told. Every word here is the truth.

I feel violated. That, in itself, is a form of violence perpetrated against me. That is okay. I am of no importance. It is the sincere devotees that are being mislead that concerns me.

I wrote a very favorable article about the recent NY Ratha Yatra in which I praised those in charge in Brooklyn for their service to Lord Jagannatha. What have I ever done to anyone? Whenever I visit I am quiet, reserved, and inoffensive. Everyone who knows me knows that I have always avoided involvement in any controversy or politics. I feel very hurt and I offer my most humble obeisances and apologies to all the actual devotees in Brooklyn who will no doubt be offended by this article.

Jagannatha dasa

[PADA: Welcome to the club of exiled devotees. You are not alone. You might want to ask SDG why he wanted all these bogus gurus to rule the society with no checks and balances like a normal religion has. ys pd]

Spiritual Master is Eternal

[This is a quote we used in PADA documents decades ago. ys pd]

Big Lines At First Vegetarian Drive Through

[Rohnert Park is about 45 miles north of San Francisco. Amy's products are sold in most major supermarkets in the USA. Why didn't some devotees think of this idea? ys pd] 

Thursday, July 30, 2015

Los Angeles Rathayatra August 2nd


Song Name: Kadacit Kalindi Tata Vipina
Official Name: Sri Sri Jagannathastakam
Author: Adi Sankaracarya

kadacit kalindi-tata-vipina-sangitaka-ravo
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

bhuje savye venum sirasi sikhi-puccham kati-tate
dukulam netrante sahacara-kataksam vidadhate
sada srimad-vrndavana-vasati-lila-paricayo
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

mahambhodhes tire kanaka-rucire nila-sikhare
vasan prasadantah sahaja-balabhadrena balina
subhadra-madhya-sthah sakala-sura-sevavasara-do
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

krpa-paravarah sajala-jalada-sreni-ruciro
rama-vani-ramah sphurad-amala-pankeruha-mukhah
surendrair aradhyah sruti-gana-sikha-gita-carito
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

ratharudho gacchan pathi milita-bhudeva-patalaih
stuti-pradurbhavam prati-padam upakarnya sadayah
daya-sindhur bandhuh sakala jagatam sindhu-sutaya
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

para-brahmapidah kuvalaya-dalotphulla-nayano
nivasi niladrau nihita-carano ‘nanta-sirasi
rasanando radha-sarasa-vapur-alingana-sukho
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

na vai yace rajyam na ca kanaka-manikya-vibhavam
na yace ‘ham ramyam sakala jana-kamyam vara-vadhum
sada kale kale pramatha-patina gita-carito
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

hara tvam samsaram druta-taram asaram sura-pate
hara tvam papanam vitatim aparam yadava-pate
aho dine ‘nathe nihita-carano niscitam idarn
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me

jagannathastakam punyam yah pathet prayatah shuci
sarva-papa-vishuddha-atma vishnulokam sa gacchati


1) Sometimes in great happiness Lord Jagannatha makes a loud concert with His flute in the groves on the banks of the Yamuna. He is like a bumblebee tasting the beautiful lotus like faces of the cowherd damsels of Vraja, and great personalities such as Laksmi, Siva, Brahma, Indra, and Ganesa worship His lotus feet. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.

2) In His left hand Lord Jagannatha holds a flute, on His head He wears peacock feathers, and on His hips He wears fine yellow silken cloth. From the corners of His eyes He bestows sidelong glances upon His loving devotees, and He always reveals Himself through His pastimes in His divine abode of Vrndavana. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.

3) On the shore of the great ocean, within a large palace atop the brilliant, golden Nilacala Hill, Lord Jagannatha resides with His powerful brother Balabhadra and His sister Subhadra, who sits between Them. May that Jagannatha Svami, who bestows the opportunity for devotional service upon all godly souls, be the object of my vision.

4) Lord Jagannatha is an ocean of mercy and as beautiful as a row of blackish rain clouds. He is the storehouse of bliss for Laksmi and Sarasvati, and His face resembles a spotless full-blown lotus. The best of demigods and sages worship Him, and the Upanisads sing His glories. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.

5) When Lord Jagannatha moves along the road on His Rathayatra car, at every step large assemblies of brahmanas loudly chant prayers and sing songs for His pleasure. Hearing their hymns, Lord Jagannatha becomes very favorably disposed toward them. He is the ocean of mercy and the true friend of all the worlds. May that Jagannatha Svami, along with His consort Laksmi, who was born from the ocean of nectar, be the object of my vision.

6) Lord Jagannatha, whose eyes resemble full-blown lotus petals, is the ornament on Lord Brahma's head. He resides on Nilacala Hill with His lotus feet placed on the heads of Anantadeva. Overwhelmed by the mellows of love, He joyfully embraces Srimati Radharani's body, which is like a cool pond. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.

7) I do not pray for a kingdom nor do I pray for gold, rubies, or wealth. I do not ask for a beautiful wife as desired by all men. I simply pray that Jagannatha Svami, whose glories Lord Siva always sings, may be the constant object of my vision.

8) O Lord of the demigods, please quickly remove this useless material existence I am undergoing. O Lord of the Yadus, please destroy this vast, shoreless ocean of sins. Alas, this is certain Lord Jagannatha bestows His lotus feet upon those who feel themselves fallen and have no shelter in this world but Him. May that Jagannatha Svami be the object of my vision.

9) The self-retrained, virtuous soul who recites these eight verses glorifying Lord Jagannatha becomes cleansed of all sins and duly proceeds to Lord Visnu's abode.

Wednesday, July 29, 2015

Surabhi Das Departs

Deena Bandhu prabhu just sent this report:
Please Join us in Prayers for Surabhi, the architect of Vrindavan and Juhu Temples, and Pushpa Samadhi in Mayapur. At this time, he has come to Vrindavan to leave this world, as he lost the battle with cancer. Went to see him this morning, he was unconscious and the devotees were doing kirtan. Just for the service of building two of Srila Prabhupada's favorite temples, he is assured the highest destination!"

PADA: There was a "big" celebration of the anniversary of the Krishna Balarama -- Vrndavana temple this year, and only a little more than 100 "Prabhupada disciples" came for the event. Surabhi and Brahmananda were among them, and both of them are now gone. This begs the question, what happened to all the original 5,000 devotees of Prabhupada, that only such a small number are coming to one of the biggest ceremonies? 

Of course Kurma rupa has also recently departed as well. Its seems to us that -- out of the 5,000 original disciples, almost all of them have sort of disappeared into the wood work of the regular society, and a number have already departed, untimely. And by looking at the state of Jayapataka, Satsvarupa and some of the others, they are not doing very well at all.  

We think this "epidemic of premature departures" is a sort of reaction from the fact that many more of these devotees should have taken charge of defending Krishna's institution from the self evident criminal take over. At least they could have given us renegades some sort of support, since it was pretty much well known we were trying to address these issues. 

When I was interviewed by a CBS news woman in 1986, the person who had filmed Kirtanananda sitting on his big throne covered with his golden crown and silken outfit, she said to me that if this odious form of worship was going on in her church, she would have personally gone up and pulled that bogus man off his big seat, and she would have personally stopped his worship, even if that meant she would have been killed. 

She told me emphatically, she would not allow such foolish worship to be going on in her religion, period. And I believe her, she really would have gone up and pulled some fool off a big chair -- if that was going on in her church -- because she understands the principle of not allowing pompous fools to be worshiped in one's church.

That's what normal people think when their religion is invaded by pompous fools who take the place of Jesus. They do something about it. She said, your religion is based on the "fight for justice" of the Bhagavad Gita, thus begging the question, why haven't more of your people been helping you and Sulochana fight for justice? That is what she and others have asked me over the years, and no doubt thousands or maybe even millions of people have the same question in mind: Why did almost everyone seem to acquiesce with this bogus pooja? 

Of course -- its way worse than that -- many of my dear God Brothers were kicking me hard in the booty every inch of the way, because they did not want the bogus messiahs project to be challenged, at all. I think this is called sympathy for the Devil. 

Anyway! I really don't want to speak ill of the dead here, when they are not here to defend themselves, but this is a publicly known issue at this point. Many people wonder why all this corruption was not challenged by more of the "senior devotees" of the mission. Of course, this was the same trouble we had in the 1936 Gaudiya Matha, a few fools sat in the big seats, and most of the rank and file ran off, dispersed into the wind, and were simply gone, seems like a pattern? 

The good news is that at least we have some sort of rag tag resistance of our own going on, mostly from the second and now third generation people, and its gaining momentum. Anyway! This is the question I get all the time, where did they all go? Why didn't they help you renegade guys? I dunno, that is the only answer I have. At the same time, I also believe that Krishna will give everyone credit for whatever service they have done, so any service is way better than none. Have a good voyage Surabhi prabhu, I sincerely do wish you well! ys pd

The Fall of the Jeeva Soul (PT. 1)

NT: The jiva is always with Krsna in love. This is the Reality. An Eternal Reality. Anything else is simply insignificant temporary and illusionary. From the knowledge of that sambandha tattva, we have learned that the jiva, having forgotten his eternal relation with Krsna, has fallen in to the sea of samsara . . .". -Sri Caitanya-siksamrtam, p.43.

Even in his unalloyed spiritual state, the jiva is infinitesimal. He is liable to undergo change of condition . . . The worldly course makes its appearance simultaneously with the jiva's loss of all recollection of the servitorship of Krsna". - Jaiva Dharma, Chapter One

"In his true nature, the jiva is the devoted servant of Krsna. The jivas, who have gone astray against that nature of theirs -- due to their seeking after their own pleasure--turned away from Krsna and, as such, became punishable". - Jaiva Dharma.

"Jiva is the proprietor of an eternal identity that is extremely esoteric and subtle". - Jaiva Dharma.

"This external energy of the Lord covers up the pure knowledge of the living entity's eternally existing with Him, but the covering is so constant that it appears that the conditioned soul is eternally ignorant." -- Srimad Bhagavatam, 2.5.19, purport.

PT Dasa: When these topics came while Srila Prabhupada was personally present with us he said the discussion is like crow and Tal fruit. Some say the Tal fruit fell by the crow landing on the branch, and others say the fruit was just about to fall the same exact moment the crow landed. This kind of discussion can go on eternally and I have personally seen at least for 40 yrs

PADA: That is why we have to stick with what Srila Prabhupada said: a) We were all originally in Krishna's leela or sport; b) We became envious of Krishna c) Thus we fell to the material world, d) We have to re-establish our lost connection to Krishna and GO BACK HOME to our original constitutional position, e) The God brothers who challenged this idea are tinged with Mayavada. Nuff said! That solves the whole issue. ys pd

V Dasa Right. The discussion is like crow and tal. But it shouldn't be like that amongst devotees who actually accept what Srila Prabhupada said. GM people claim they are Prabhupada's successors. Then why do they disagree with him? This is why we are having the discussion too. Because at this point, its about accepting Srila Prabhupada's instructions, and THAT is not like crow and tal talk.

SB 3.26.23-24, Purport.



U Dasa: What a bunch of speculation... of course there is a conclusion. And it can easily be proven by sastra. Just that you don't want to listen. Just read Jaiva-dharma.

PADA: Srila Prabhupada told us not to read the Gaudiya Matha's version of the Jaiva Dharma, he said it had been edited by his bogus God brothers after 1936. Why does U dasa always do -- the exact opposite -- of what the acharya orders? Srila Prabhupada said that the God brothers did not agree with his back to Godhead idea, and these are probably the same brothers who edited these books. Srila Prabhupada said, they are tinged with mayavada for not understanding we were all with Krishna originally. The conclusion is simple, do not read books that were edited by persons tinged with mayavada!

Srila Prabhupada thus did not allow the Gaudiya Matha's version of Jaiva Dharma to be distributed in his ISKCON, nor did he ever say "here is the authorized version," rather he said we need to hear from him to understand all these issues. Nor has U Dasa shown us a quote where an authorized version has been approved by Srila Prabhupada. Nor has he shown us how God creates two tiered system of some souls starting with Krishna and some not, the Vatican's jeeva tattva. ys pd

PT Dasa: Very near Srila Prabhupadas last days with us in Vrindaban His Divine Grace expressed "I have given you everything,everything I have placed in my books there is no need for you to separately study the writings of Srila Bhaktiviode or Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana all their important conclusions I have placed in my books. " I am quoting Srila Prabhupada as I heard him say so far I have never heard any recording of this but I assure you all it was recorded

PADA: Srila Prabhupada specifically said the Gaudiya Matha version of Jaiva dharama is spurious. He told us not to distribute this version in his movement. And none of this explains how we all originated in Krishna's leela or sport? Nor does U dasa explain why he is saying some souls originate with Krishna and some do not, Vatican idea? Nor does he show us where his version of Jaiva dharma was approved by Srila Prabhupada?

U Dasa also seems to agree with us? -- Having forgotten our devotion and service to Sri Krsna, we are held as the captives of maya, and thus, in lieu of our original transcendental status, we are in this miserable situation." Right, having forgotten we were with Krishna, good, that is what we said the whole time.

Welcome aboard!

This is making some sense now, U Dasa is saying we all forgot our service to Sri Krishna, so if we forgot, we were once doing that service to Krishna. We are not taking this out of context, forgetting our service is only possible if we were once engaged in it. I cannot remember being in San Francisco, if I was never there?

U Dasa is arguing with his own shadow? He just said we forgot our original devotion and service to Krishna. How can we forget something that never existed? If I forget where my car is parked, that means, it never existed? To say we, the marginal living entities, came from an impersonal origin, is not the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada was very clear on this subject – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swam 1972

Srila Prabhupada – “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” – (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada – These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970

Srila Prabhupada – “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna album

Srila Prabhupada – ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Devotee – “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.

Srila Prabhupada – “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become. . . .”

Srila Prabhupada – “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger”. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami 1972

It is important to understand that ALL marginal living entities ‘originally’ come from Goloka-Vrndavana and are ALWAYS in a perpetual state of uniqueness’ meaning we are forever fresh and youthful in our nitya-siddha body.

Such a spiritual body is ‘eternally’ endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna’s but can also appear as a four armed form in the Vaikunthas in the mood of servitude, or further appear as a flower, drop of rain, chair, etc regardless, the original form of the soul is two armed just like Krishna’s.

What makes things confusing to several is that some marginal living entities, who have manifested as their inferior secondary baddha-jiva state in the material creation, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!

This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation because of not being Krishna Conscious to awaken to their true nitya-siddha body in Goloka.

U Dasa says we all forgot our service to Krishna. How can we forget our service and devotion to Krishna, if it never existed? This is not making any sense even from logical point of view, he is fighting his own shadow? Anyway, we cannot rely on your version of Jaiva dharma because it was never approved by Srila Prabhupada. What we can rely on is, we all originated in Krishna's leela or sport, its that simple. ys pd

NT Dasa Even in his unalloyed spiritual state, the jiva is infinitesimal. He is liable to undergo change of condition . . . The worldly course makes its appearance simultaneously with the jiva's loss of all recollection of the servitorship of Krsna". - Jaiva Dharma

C Dasa: Does U dasa follow BV Puri?

NT Dasa: This is what I mean. Utilises, has to uphold the no-fall position because his GM Gurus say so. Otherwise, their Gurus would be revealed as ordinary people who make mistakes. It's all politics.
Actually,Srila Prabhupada reveals them as ordinary persons with 4 defects who are contaminated with this impersonal misinterpretation. Utilises,you yourself are selectively quoting The Thakur words in JD.

Utilises,the point is that you have a cognitive bias and are not viewing the issue objectively free from that GM bias. You understand prabhu?

C Dasa: Of course one must first be clear about THE ONLY MEANING OF THE VERB RETURN according to the dictionary, and not imagine any different meaning to the dictionary meaning.

PADA: BV Puri was a big cheer leader of Gopal Krishna swami and the GBC's guru program, along with other supporters from the Gaudiya Matha like Sridhara Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada said, among my God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya. Anyway, as we said earlier, Srila Prabhupada said their idea that we do not originate with Krishna is tinged with mayavada.

And their idea that conditioned souls can be acharyas is simply another defect. These Gaudiya Matha folks simply rubber stamped a pile of conditioned souls as acharyas, thus their acharyas have been falling down left, right and center, that means, they have no idea what is an acharya in the first place. They do not even know that when a conditioned soul acts as a diksha guru, he gets overwhelmed by the karma, which is basic ABC idea. ys pd

C Dasa: One never RETURNS means that we were in the material world. In no way means that we can not fall from Vaikuntha.This is not the basic meaning of the verb RETURN. Use this verb to mean this is completely ignoring the most basic meaning of the verb return.

The question is before coming to this material world where we were?

PADA: They already said we have forgot our original service to Krishna, they are spinning in contradictions .... Srila Prabhupada says: contradiction means mayavada ... There is also the idea of nitya mukta and nitya baddha, the souls are either eternally liberated or eternally conditioned. That means, the souls in the spiritual world are generally staying there, Srila Prabhupada 90 percent never leave. Gaura Govinda Maharaja was another person who confused the jeeva tattva issue, guru tattva issue, etc.

Anyway, U Dasa is confusing Krishna's expansion called Mahavishnu with Krishna. Srila Prabhupada says, -- the first form to appear within the material creation is Mahavishnu. We only originate from Mahavishnu's body AFTER we fall here. The jeevas do not originate from Mahavishnu originally, the conditioned souls are in His realm in the material universe AFTER THEY FALL, and when the universe is dissolved they are returned to His body, where they rest with Mahavishnu, and they come back out from Him at the next material creation.

Fine, but that now means U Dasa is saying the souls originate here in the material world, exactly what the Catholic church teaches. The souls that are coming from Mahavishnu are already in the material world because Mahavishnu is the creator of the material universes. And this is another problem, U Dasa already said we fell because we forgot serving Krishna. Fine!

Except being in the realm of Mahavishnu is not serving Krishna, its called the conditioned state of existence. We fell because we forgot Krishna, but we were already in the material world with Mahavishnu? Ulises is mixing apples and oranges, again. No, we were in the realm of Krishna, we wanted to forget Krishna, and we then fell here, to the realm of Mahavishnu.

We have already read what the acharya has said about this topic, he simply does not agree with your theories that Mahavishnu is the source of the jeevas, and that Krishna starts out his children un-equally. Srila Prabhupada also said, there is no bona fide edition of Jaiva dharma now available, you have not proven otherwise.

Of course, even in the version you yourself cited, you cited that we have fallen due to forgetting Krishna, which means you are going around in a big circle of confusion. You also failed to explain how we can forget something we never had knowledge of. You forgot to explain how come -- when these GM God brothers (ok folks like BV Puri) complained about the Back to Godhead idea, Srila Prabhupada said they are tinged with mayavada.

You have not provided any quote where Srila Prabhupada said any current version of Jaiva Dharma and its commentaries are bona fide. Srila Prabhupada also said gurus are not appointed, or voted in, and BV Puri helped promote the GBC's gurus like Gopal Krishna and he said we were wrong to promote Srila Prabhupada as the diksha guru, and we hate to have to tell you the odious history of how that theory brought down the GM and ISKCON and created a huge sahajiya cult problem. BV Puri thus supported the theory that conditioned souls can be worshiped as acharyas, which is not found in any shastra anywhere. In sum, your guru tattva, jeeva tattva, and not doubt other tattvas, are contaminated.

First of all, you have no proof that is what Srila Bhaktivinode actually said or intended because you have no verified shastra or commentaries on such shastra. You have also said that (A) we forgot Krishna, and (B) we originated with Mahavishnu, which means, your Krishna tattva is totally scrambled and not authentic. Anyone who juxtaposes Krishna with His Mahavishnu expansions in the material world has not even understood the ABC principles of Krishna and His incarnations. Srila Prabhupada says we originated in Krishna's lila or sport, you say this is Mahavishnu, you have everything mixed up. Krishna's leela is not Mahavishnu's, which is known to the most ABC level of bhaktas under Srila Prabhupada's direction.

You also have no explanation for why BV Puri supported conditioned souls as gurus, ... because there is none. A sober devotee knows that Krishna's leela or sport is not Mahavishnu's pastimes, that is a separate function, creating the material world, this has nothing to do with Krishna's leela or sport in the spiritual world. No, you have not shown is any quote to support that your version of Jaiva Dharma is authentic, and the way you have everything else scrambled, its no wonder, you are not reading authentic materials or you would not have all of these things so badly confused. Mahavishnu is creating the material world, for you to say that is our origin means, you are simply spouting the same idea as the Catholic Church, we originated here. We are not members of that organization? ys pd

V Dasa: Superexcellent


NT Dasa Bhagavad-gita (Bg. 8.18-19): "When Brahma's day is manifest, this multitude of living entities comes into being, and at the arrival of Brahma's night they are all annihilated." (Bg. 8.18)
Not from Maha Vishnu when He creates the material world. As said before, this "From Maha-Vishnu theory" is just wishful thinking. "

PADA: Yes, the Mahavishnu expansion takes care of the fallen jeevas who wanted to forget Krishna, its not the original status of the jeevas. Even U Dasa admits the jeevas who fell here wanted to forget Krishna. Of course this begs the question, how could the jeevas forget their relationship with Krishna, if this relationship did not exist previously?

And if no one can choose to NOT serve Krishna in the spiritual world, isn't that a robot zombie land? This also makes no sense, that the jeevas in the spiritual world have no ability to choose whether to serve or not to serve. This erases their independence. The jeevas there are not robot zombies, they are given the choice to either serve or not to serve, and some choose not to serve. Then again we have mixed servants, like the demigods, they wanted to serve Krishna and also enjoy materially, so their status is all a result of their independent desires.

We have to come to the point of recognizing that everyone is placed wherever they are by their desires and actions, its not that some people are placed in heaven and some are placed here by some whimsical process, its all going on exactly as per the desires of the jeevas. Unless we can understand this point clearly, it will be harder to desire the right thing. This is why Srila Prabhupada emphasized this point, that we are where we are by our desires, because this gives us an impetus to control and focus those desires. Its part of the process of returning home, back to God.

The "no fall" people make it look like there is no independent desires for the jeevas, nope, there is, and every being has their position as a result of those desires. Krishna gives us a particular spiritual body at the start of our existence to suggest to us what He would like us to do, but its not a fixed robot situation, we are allowed to decide if we want to perform that service, or not, because otherwise the whole thing would be mechanical robots. If Krishna starts off some people in a no fall post, and some of us in a possible fall post, that makes Him biased. He isn't, He loves all jeevas equally. ys pd

Austria House Program

Chaturmasya 2015

Tuesday, July 28, 2015

A Few PADA news updates

*** We are getting more nice inquiries about all these topics and more and more people are agreeing with our idea to establish Srila Prabhupada as the acharya.

*** A number of folks have asked us about the Bombay vs Bangalore court case. I don't know for sure, but it appears to be delayed again. The good news is that many of the documents our PADA project has previously found / forwarded / posted on our sites etc. are now officially recorded in that Supreme court. The other good news is that lower courts recently ruled favorably for Bangalore while a criminal process has been started against some of the Bombay (GBC) folks.

This means in any case, a legal historical record has been made of these documents in the Supreme court of India, that's good progress. Of course there are always some people who do not like either Bangalore or us for our conducting this document collecting and forwarding, no kidding, these folks wanted to suppress these documents the whole while. And as soon as anyone starts a lawsuit against the GBC's gurus to prove that Srila Prabhupada should be the acharya, there are many people who object. Too bad, at this point, the cat is pretty much out of the bag, its too late to suppress all these documents.    

*** A number of "history videos" are in the works in a sort of collaboration effort which we are helping along. The devotee who is making these videos would like more photos to illustrate the post-1977 historical events. So if you have any photos of the 11 gurus and their empires, news clippings, etc. after 1977, please send to and we will forward them.

*** Another devotee is making a book on the history of New Vrndavana, and we are helping with this account.

*** A very senior devotee whom we have not seen or heard of in 30 years has all of a sudden started to ask all sorts of good questions about the poison issue, its getting around slow but sure. He is pretty much convinced our account is accurate.

*** A newer devotee has asked us lots of questions about Radhanatha, and this devotee sort of feels Radhanatha is not all he is cracked up to be.

*** The book Monkey On A Stick, some of Sulochana's writings, and other PADA materials are gradually being translated into Spanish by a group of Spanish speaking folks, who want to get PADA's style of ideas out and into that language. We'll let you know when these documents are up and running.

*** Another devotee asked me why Dayalu Nitai's HKC Jaipur spokesman Prahlad is still saying PADA's idea to establish Srila Prabhupada as the acharya is "destroying ISKCON," and most of the HKC folks are against us and they are instead promoting Bhakta das, one of the biggest GBC guru's cheer leaders and he is also a giant Gaudiya Matha groupie. Of course they are also citing another person who says the ritviks are "slimy snakes." Great company they have there!

Worse, Bhakta das says our idea of worship of the pure devotee is "a cancerous tumor." Worse, Bhakta das has encouraged all sorts of criminal behaviors that has given the Krishna movement a bad name and he was himself arrested for "sex crimes" in Puri. Fine person for your HKC Jaipur folks to publicly advertise as your shiksha guru spokesman.

I had to tell this devotee, there are people such as Bhakta das, who are simply pretending to want to see Srila Prabhupada being worshiped, but what they really think is that we Prabhupadanugas are a cancerous tumor. Bhakta das also promotes Radhanath's program. OK, and we would say this is the sinister agenda that ruined ISKCON. So the HKC and their spokesman have simply shown us what their real agenda is, thats all, they are sitting around making audio tapes of Bhakta das and not us, because they are still with the Gaudiya Matha's groupies / Radhantha / Kirtanananda / designer drugs pada agenda. Its simple, as Sulochana said, birds of a feather flop together.

Sulochana also used to say. people can try to hide their real desires for some time and make pretend they are for Prabhupada, but if they are against us -- they are not for Prabhupada, and eventually their real colors will come out. Thus according to Sulochana's idea, they are against us because they do not want to see the pure devotee being worshiped, plain and simple. And these same HKC guys are also totally against our idea of establishing Srila Prabhupada as the acharya in the courts, because they attack anyone who tries to establish the acharya there. OK, that means they want the sinister deviants to be established as the acharyas of the jagat -- in the courts.

So, they are on the wrong side, that's all. This devotee thanked me because he was going to visit India and he wanted to know who was what over there. In any case, our opponents have always said our worship of the pure devotee is a cancerous tumor, and most folks now agree -- these are the people who have created all the troubles for ISKCON.

These people are eternally doing this of course, they have always wanted to establish the worship of deviants, even when Krishna was here, Kamsa had his advocates. Anyway, various people have been telling us some pretty horrific things about Radhanath's program which we cannot make public yet, but for the HKC Jaipur folks to be publicly advertising and licking the boots of Radhanath's promoters is -- not a good sign of their spiritual progress.  

*** The overall good news is, the bogus guru agenda is slipping more and more and our "Prabhupadanuga" idea is getting more traction, including a number of historical sites that will document all this for future Vaishnavas. Basically, our version of the post 1977 history of ISKCON has ALREADY been widely accepted by most of the USA police, FBI, and the public media, and perhaps thousands of devotees worldwide all agree now, and its increasing worldwide, for example our history version is gaining more traction among the media, courts and devotee population of India etc.

At the same time, the Krishna1008 blog readership is expanding nicely, especially into many foreign lands, which means more and more folks are waking  up to these issues. Simultaneously, more and more people are linking to this blog and our site etc. -- so we are progressing along. As Srila Prabhupada often says, the dogs will bark -- as the caravan passes -- simply stated, our program is expanding.

ys pd

Monday, July 27, 2015

Dr. Abdul Kalam Departs

The most humble Dr. ‎Abdul Kalam used to regularly walk to ISKCON Bangalore when he stayed nearby before he became the president of India. He used to read Bhagavad Gita everyday which he bought from ISKCON Bangalore's book section. Our sincere condolences for his departure. May Krishna bless his soul. 

Updates On Kanhaiya Dasa's Site

Some updates on Kanhaiya dasa's site

Problem of accepting a neophyte guru

Real Krishna consciousness comes from those who are really Krishna conscious
Bhakta Mark: Sorry, accepting a kanistha adhikari as one’s spiritual master is not necessarily auspicious but can be inauspicious, and thus does not guarantee a human birth. The only way to guarantee a human birth is to first be linked up to the yoga system and practice Bhakti yoga as per BG 6.41.
But does a neophyte ALWAYS link another to the Bhakti yoga system and initiate their practice? We will see what the acaryas have to say about that. It is a fact that NO neophyte has mastered spirituality, and thus cannot transmit pure transcendental knowledge, and cannot initiate another into any conception or realization past Prakrta Bhakti, or tinged and mixed materialistic devotional service. As the quotes below will show.
Neophytes can and will accept disciples, as they have since time immemorial, and will eternally within this material world, because that is one of the particular temptations and flaws inherent in a neophyte who is not accepting the guidance of an uttama adhikari, or a madhyama under that uttama’s guidance.
Our exemplar uttama acarya, Srila Prabhupada, pointed out the obvious. That a neophyte can accept disciples as easily as a person can breathe by inhaling from their lungs, yet in the same breath SP gives his authorized declaration of what an aspirant faced with such a choice SHOULD be careful TO DO.
“Therefore, a disciple SHOULD be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari (first-class devotee) as a spiritual master.”
And then offers a PROHIBITION against any other choice. Pay attention to the words MUST and SHOULD NOT and ONLY …ELIGIBLE.
“One SHOULD NOT become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari (first-class devotee).” -- Nectar of Instruction 5, Purport
“The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. . . ONLY such a person is ELIGIBLE to occupy the post of a guru.” -- Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita Madhya 24.330, Purport
And why is this? ” it should be understood that they (aspiring disciple) cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his (neophyte’s) insufficient guidance” (NOI 5)
SP -- “The third-class devotee engages in devotional service according to the directions of the spiritual master, OR ENGAGES OUT OF FAMILY TRADITION, and worships the Deity of the Lord, but he is not cultivated in knowledge of devotional service, and HE DOES NOT KNOW A DEVOTEE FROM A NON-DEVOTEE, SUCH A THIRD-CLASS DEVOTEE CANNOT ACTUALLY BE CONSIDERED A PURE DEVOTEE; HE IS ALMOST IN THE DEVOTIONAL LINE, BUT HIS POSITION IS NOT VERY SECURE.” (TLC 11)
My comment. Remember, neophytes are not even in the pure devotional line yet.
SP -- “The third-class devotees or the neophytes, who have no knowledge and are not detached from material association, but who are simply attracted by the preliminary process of worshiping the Deity in the temple, are called material devotees. Material devotees are more attached to material benefit than transcendental profit. Therefore, one has to make definite progress from the position of material devotional service to the second-class devotional position.” -- Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.12, Purport
My comment. A neophyte HAS TO make DEFINITE progress to the second class position, and NEVER CAN OR WILL under the INSUFFICIENT GUIDANCE OF A NEOPHYTE SO CALLED GURU.
and finally.
SP -- “One has to raise himself at least to the stage of a second-class devotee and thus become eligible to know the Absolute Truth. A third-class devotee, therefore, has to receive the instructions of devotional service from the authoritative sources of Bhagavata. The number one Bhagavata is the established personality of devotee, and the other Bhagavatam is the message of Godhead. The third-class devotee therefore has to go to the personality of devotee in order to learn the instructions of devotional service.” -- Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.12, Purport
GET THAT? The personality of devotee cannot possibly be a neophyte. A neophyte cannot be considered the “PERSON BHAGAVATA”
So, we have someone who is not in the devotional line, who is a materialistic person, who has possibly ignored the orders of the Mahabhagavat Acarya, and if not is simply following the advice of some other neophyte so called guru and accepting disciples that they cannot even bring to the second class platform, and what do we call this? Thus this is MORE THAN LIKELY JUST “The spiritual master business.”
“There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaishnavas in this Krishna Consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected. A false acarya may try to override a vaishnava by a high-court decision, (2/3 hand vote) but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga.”.
“Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, Kali-cela. He indicates that there are other Vaishnavas, pseudo-Vaishnavas, with tilaka on their nose and kunti beads around their neck. Such a pseudo-Vaishnava associates with money and women and is jealous of successful Vaishnavas. Although passing for a Vaishnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaishnava”. (CC.Madhy.,Ch.1, Text 218 / 220, purport)
"The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession.
"THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA--“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA”--and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.” Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Isopanisad 12)
Yet, Bhakta George Smith INSISTS that a neophyte guru and his uninitiated neophyte disciples are Guaranteed a human form of life.
But the influence of a psuedo religionist/ pseudo Vaisnava (AKA neophyte so called Guru) may have no bearing whatsoever upon whether or not an aspirant to the devotional line takes a human birth in their next life of not. At the end of their life they have just as much chance of remembering the best sex they ever had with a goat, as they are remembering the holy names of the Lord.
Considering an animal life on earth is a better position than a birth in the most obnoxious place in the universe, perhaps George and others of this ilk would like to change their mind about his conclusion. And perhaps finally issue a retraction to his claim that Srila Prabhupada “GAVE PERMISSION” for Neophytes to become Diksa gurus and accept disciples.
The promoters of neophyte acharyas are now risking their own descent to dark regions due to stubborn pride.
Hare Krsna
ys B.Mark
[PADA: Well said! Of course people who are engaged in illicit sex, drugs, sexual predator behaviors, criminal actions etc. are not even kanisthas, or neophyte bhaktas of any level, they are deviants posing as messiahs, which is also why they are destined to go to a lower birth. And in the case of the GBC, almost all of them have supported and sometimes reinstated their worst case degraded messiahs, so they are all implicated in the karma chakra of this process. ys pd]