Thursday, November 23, 2017

Kirtan / Vrinda Kishori (Soundcloud)

Sridhara Maharaja advises "modification" of puja

PADA: OK suppose I tell my Christian neighbors that their offering grace to Jesus is a bad idea, they have to offer grace to the Church Governing Body Council administration leadership. Would that not cause a schism right out of the gate? There is not really a gripe here, its a question of what is the correct policy of making offerings to God, via media the pure devotee or via media the Governing Council members of the church, who are many times falling away from the process? Is there any religion that offers prayers, saying grace, and offering disciples to the Church's Governing Council members and not their messiah?


Worship of the acharya should be "modified"?

First Conversation With Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Part 2


DKS: There are some devotees, they feel that Srila Prabhupada, he is being offended. That in their estimation the greatest vaisnava is being offended.

SM: BCS Bengali


DKS: By the… for example vyasasanas… we are talking in general of having vyasasanas right next to Prabhupada.

SM: [*] According to my consideration as I hear that the grandeur of the acarya … of the puja of the present acaryas, that is undesirable and too much. It's too much and undesirable and that will create some difficulty. It should be modified. The way in which the acarya puja has been established, that should be modified to suit the circumstances and adjustment with the God brothers. 

[PADA: Why should Krishna's puja and / or the acharya's puja, be "modified to suit the circumstances"? When did Srila Prabhupada order that the acharya's puja needs to be modified? At all? The acharya's puja and worship of Krishna should be pure, eternal and authorized and not -- "modified to adjust to the circumstances." 

And now we find Sridhara Maharaja says the GBC's guru puja suffers from "too much grandeur," while Srila Prabhupada's puja is not grand enough, because its being minimized by diverting to the GBC's puja? What does that say about the mentality of the GBC's gurus, since they are self-evidently and purposefully eclipsing the worship of the acharya? Why not say the obvious, the GBC are envious of the worship of their guru and they want to displace / replace / hijack his puja?  

Its simple. The worship of guru and Krishna is supposed to be an eternal process. Its not something that is constantly being modified and changed, or declared as "too much grandeur" for unqualified persons. The God brothers also did not want to see the guru puja to be modified, they wanted the guru puja to be done as it was established by Srila Prabhupada. 

The GBC's guru puja is too grand, well maybe, but they are not supposed to be getting any puja at all since there is no guru appointment to make them into gurus. Sridhara Maharaja never asks, ok what was the system of worship of these new gurus intended to be -- according to Srila Prabhupada? Where are his directives on this topic? There was no system, he never mentioned any such system of worship of the managers, in sum he never said there would be puja for the GBC. 

Why would the brothers even agree to having this puja process modified? And who is qualified to modify the instructions of the acharya? That means Sridhara Maharaja is saying we are now going to have a pack of neophytes chop up, change, modify, and in sum speculate on how the Vedic acharyas are worshiped. 

Why does Sridhara Maharaja think the speculating GBC are authorized to modify the guru puja process? The brain surgery is now going to be conducted by the hospital janitor, so it needs to be "modified" to suit -- a person who has no qualification to do surgery? How is that going to work? 

Of course Rocana / Torben / Ajit Krishna / Hanuman Croatia et al. are supporting Sridhara's and Rocana's concocted "new guru puja" process, because Rocana is writing "a new ISKCON constitution" with concocted "new rules" for the worship process. Who authorized these people to make a "new process" or "adjusted process" for worship of the acharya? There is no need for a "new process" since there is no authority to modify the eternal process that was already made clear from Srila Prabhupada. 

We are now -- for example -- going to make a new process and place the photos of conditioned souls on the altars next to the acharyas, and offer bhogha to these conditioned souls. Why do people think this is the authorized system -- since for starters -- its never been done? 

Again! And who authorized these changes and modifications? 

The God brothers and the so-called acharya board should have meetings, and speculate on a "new process" for acharya puja? They should just make stuff up? Sridhara Maharaja does not understand that neither he nor the GBC have ANY authority to modify the process for worship of Krishna and His pure devotees. Its not something that is continuously modified, changed, and made to suit the whims of conditioned souls.]  

SM: A protocol, a spiritual protocol should be evolved which may not be very harmful to the body, to the association, organization, ISKCON. Because it is a very difficult thing in tackling the fine points of sentiment divine. So very carefully the adjustment in the spiritual protocol should be observed. Not only adjustment with the sentiment of the Godbrothers of the acaryas, but also the disciples of the acaryas amongst themselves, this difficulty will continue. 

[PADA: A protocol should be evolved-- by the process of speculation? What is this? The spiritual process is like the "evolution" of species? We keep "evolving" into layers and layers of more speculative programs one after another? The spiritual platform of eternal life is not a constantly evolving and changing program. We worship the pure devotee according to the standards and process established millions and billions of years ago, we do not constantly modify, evolve and change the process. 

Worse! How can conditioned souls become diksha gurus, and take sins the sins of others and disciples, since Srila Prabhupada clearly says his followers will be overwhelmed by taking sins? How can we "adjust" these points?]

SM: So very sober and well thought conception should be evolved by the help of the scripture and the statements of the vaisnava and their experience considering all these things. Adjustment may help the mission to grow. Adjustment may not be detrimental to the missionary activity. It is a very difficult thing.

[PADA: Its not difficult at all. Conditioned souls are not acharyas.]

DKS: In the sastras we see examples when there is an assembly of great devotees that one of them is elevated to the vyasasana. We haven't seen any examples of where there are two vyasasanas. We see Sukadeva Goswami is occupying the vyasa asana, or Suta Goswami, and all the other sages who are great exalted vaisnavas, they are sitting below. So Ramesvara Maharaja wanted to know is there some example where there can be these two vyasa asanas like that?

[PADA: Right, the 11 gurus had their Vyasa asana seats made "two inches lower than Srila Prabhupada's." OK, and where is this idea found in Srila Prabhupada's works, that there will be a BIGGER seat for the fully qualified Vyasa, and a SMALLER Vyasa asana seat for the lesser qualified Vyasa? What is a lesser qualified Vyasa?]

BCS: Bengali

SM: General honor should be given to the nominated acaryas, then ordinary disciples. Then suppose the birthday ceremony of a particular acarya, if others come there then that acarya whose birth ceremony is being celebrated, he should be given preference. Bengali There is a saying, "On the day of one's marriage bara asana, that he gets the highest position __________. His father, his uncle, they also take ordinary seats, but___________________.

[PADA: OK so now these conditioned souls are going to have Vyasa asana seats, and Vyasa puja ceremonies on their birthdays. So, the 11 are as good as Vyasa?]

DKS: But can the seat be taken in the presence of Srila Prabhupada who is sitting in every one of our temples on the vyasasana, or should it be done separately?

SM: Then that acarya he first… all of them first worship his guru and others… together… and then he will show some respect to the Godbrothers, acaryas and others. Then he will take the seat of his own for the necessity, to serve the necessity of the day… special… it is a special ceremony… special occasion and then the acaryas, the GBC members, the principal persons, they will also show some honor to that gentleman, to the acarya, with some garland or something like that. 

Then they will take their seat. Then the disciples will begin acarya puja. And after acarya puja, they will also show some respect to all others, God brothers of the gurudeva. In this way some sort of distribution of honors. In this way. It is also mentioned in the scripture when many vaisnavas are in one place and the gurudeva is also there, a disciple will bow down, show honor to his guru in one case, including all, saparsada, saparsada guru. In this way he will show the respect, the guru with his parsada, with his friends (paricaraka sahitam). 

It is mentioned not… it is difficult that the hierarchy, first the guru deva, then who, then who, then who. To avoid all these difficulties they will ___________________ with all, gurudeva with all his ___friends and servants___.

BCS: So this worship should not be done every day?

SM: Every day as I hear, that every day the acaryas come and the disciples come to worship them, this is… this seems to be too much.

DKS: But what about the principle that a disciple must worship his guru daily?

SM: Show some respect, of course, ___does not mean that whenever you meet…___ show some respect, but puja in a gorgeous way whenever an acarya will come, that gorgeous puja that will create havoc and disembarkment in the mission, so much grandeur.

[PADA: OK so now we should have two tiers of acharya puja, there will be grand puja for the acharya Srila Prabhupada, and not so grand puja for the GBC gurus. Again, where do we find that there is a two tier grand puja for one class of acharya and not so grand for another class of acharya?] 

BCS: What do you think of that asanas they have in the temple?

DKS: Vyasasanas. Prabhupada is sitting on the vyasasana in the murti form in every ISKCON temple, either murti or picture, and now the standard is…

SM: The fixed acarya Prabhupada's asana will be everywhere, and the acarya of the zone he will also have a permanent seat there and all other attending acaryas occasionally they may have one respectable asana. There they will take their seat.

[PADA: OK and what is the "acharya of the zone"? Srila Prabhupada says when a guru has a geographical area that is nonsense, the guru is guru for the jagat, jagat guru.]

BCS: But I see that in your temple you don't have an asana for yourself.

SM: Myself? No, it is… as we saw that Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Prabhupada, Gaura Kisora dasa babaji ______________________ it is going on like that.

BCS: Yeah, that is asana on the altar, but what we have in our temple is something _____________ asana.

SM: A permanent asana. Suppose Swami Maharaja introduced such thing perhaps.

BCS: Yeah, but a… but is it… say for Prabhupada we can have an asana, fixed asana in the temple, but for everyone to have an asana, all… is it good… Lots of people are criticizing us for that. Like even in Los Angeles, some Muslims are criticizing us, they… the other day they asked Dhira Krsna Maharaja that…

DKS: Sometimes there are eleven vyasasanas in the temple…

SM: And the next generation, there will be hundreds (laughing), and then the asana will go on from the mountain to the sea. (laughing)

[PADA: Right, this was always a problem. How would Srila Prabhupada make a system where there were going to be 11 Vyasa seats in his temples, in addition to his own? And why does it not occur to all these people that the 11 are not qualified to have Vyasa seats, because they are not on the level of Vyasa?] 

DKS: Bhagavan Maharaja and Ramesvara Maharaja, they said after… when they die that they can take it out… fifty or sixty years from now.

SM: Ah… Oh…

DKS: Some devotees feel that there should be… Prabhupada's vyasasana is there, he is sitting there in his murti, and when the gurus come before him they are as disciple, they are in the mood of a disciple. So Ramesvara Maharaja…

SM: ___We may be given___ two things to be considered. One thing that he was jagat guru. Jagat guru, he has some special inspiration, saktyavesa avatara as I like to tell about him. He was saktyavesa avatara, the abode of some special potency of the Lord. Otherwise, with whose work would not have been possible by any ordinary acarya, saktyavesa. So a special consideration for him, it is good. And now another thing in the opposite. Mat guru si jagat guru – a newcomer, he should be given such understanding that my guru is not less in capacity of divinity. Acaryam mam vijaniyam – sastra has got no mean mantra for a small guru and a big mantra for a big guru. Do you see?

[PADA: So the 11 should be seen to be just as divine as Srila Prabhupada for the new people. Sridhara Maharaja is correct on one point, no one should think any guru in the parampara is inferior or superior to another, problem being, the 11 were never in the parampara in the first place. This was all illusion.] 

DKS: Yes.

SM: Guru should be looked at by the disciple with maximum reverence. And to draw the maximum reverence or sraddha, faith, from the disciple, it is not a very easy thing. The maximum faith must be drawn from the disciple so the guru should not be shown of ___dwarfed___ position. Mat guru si jagat guru; acaryam mam vijaniyma. The mantram also same, sastric process of honor given also same. So two things should be considered and an intermediate process should be evolved.



[*] A portion of dialogue from this part of the August 18, 1980 conversation with Srila Sridhara Maharaja was included in chapter 5 of the book, "Our Affectionate Guardians". However, the text in the book does not match what appears to be the original transcript, presented here. There are quite a number of differences, because excerpts of Srila Sridhara's statements have been "English-ified" and cobbled together, cutting some portions out, and making it appear that the excerpted pieces were spoken in the order presented. But that is not the case.

Following is the text as presented in the book:

Acarya Grandeur

"On August 18, 1980 Srila Sridhara Maharaja addressed the problem of acarya grandeur:

According to my consideration, as I hear it, the grandeur of the acarya, the puja of the present acaryas, it is undesirable and too much and that will create some difficulty. It should be modified. The way in which the acarya puja has been established, that should be modified to suit the circumstances and some adjustment with the godbrothers should be made. A protocol, a spiritual protocol should be evolved which may not be very harmful to the body, to the association, the ISKCON organization. It is a very difficult thing tackling the fine point of divine sentiment. So, very carefully the adjustment in the spiritual protocol should be observed. Not only adjustment with the sentiment of the godbrothers of the acaryas, but also the disciples of the acaryas amongst themselves, this difficulty will continue. So, a very sober and well thought conception should be evolved by the help of the scriptures and the statements of the Vaisnavas and their experience-all these things must be considered. Adjustment may help the mission to grow-adjustment such that it may not be detrimental to the missionary activity. It is a very difficult thing to adjust. Then there is acarya puja-afterwards they should also show some respect to all others, the godbrothers of the gurudeva. In this way the respect will be shown-the guru with his parsada-with his friends (paricaraka sahitam). . . . But puja in a gorgeous way whenever an acarya will come, that gorgeous puja that will create havoc and disembarkment in the mission, so much grandeur. And now another thing in the opposite. Mat guru si jagat guru-a newcomer, he should be given such understanding that my guru is not less in capacity of divinity [than Srila Prabhupada].The newcomers should be given the highest attraction-to draw their maximum faith. Acaryam mam vijaniyam-sastra has got no mean mantra for a small guru and a big mantra for a big guru. Guru should be looked at by the disciple with maximum reverence. And to draw the maximum reverence or sraddha, faith, from the disciple, it is not a very easy thing. So, two things should be considered and an intermediate process should be evolved."

[PADA: Right, some of the biggest GBC documents on this topic at the time were being ghost written or "advised" by Sridhara Maharaja. Correct. ys pd]

Tuesday, November 21, 2017

Politicians ask for actress's beheading

PADA: Wow there are so many hokey films in India, no one can even count them. This particular one has raised the ire of a few leaders. Why are they not protesting so many other hokey films, some of them making bad depictions of India culture and etc.? ys pd] 

Monday, November 20, 2017

Thanksgiving Kirtan in Sunnyvale

Hare Krishna,

Please join us for continuous 9 Hour Kirtan on Thanksgiving Day, Nov 23rd from 11:30 am to 8:30 pm to express our thankfulness to the Supreme Lord Krishna! Chanting the Hare Krishna Mantra is the yuga dharma of this age and is the best way to seek the blessings of the Lord and express gratitude to Him.

In Srimad Bhagavatam (12.3.51), it is stated:
kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann, asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya, mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

"My dear King, although Kali-yuga is full of faults, there is still one good quality about this age. It is that simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, one can become free from material bondage and be promoted to the transcendental kingdom."

Sunday, November 19, 2017

Jai Shri Krishna / Rasa Leela (Video)

Bhavananda Das and the Poison Issue (by Nityananda das)




Bhavananda das developed the Mayapur project in cooperation with Jayapataka Swami from the very early 1970’s. He accomplished great strides forward in establishing the Hare Krishna movement in West Bengal, and was both a GBC member and a sannyasi. However, there is evidence that he was involved in poisoning Srila Prabhupada along with others such as Tamal in 1977. 

With the demise of Tamal, Bhavananda remains as a living and prime suspect in the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada. In this chapter we will combine material related to his being a poison suspect with material which shows him to be an unqualified leader, so not to have two separate chapters.


In 1981 Tamal told his disciples in a lecture that Bhavananda was his favorite of all the ISKCON gurus.  Bhavananda and Tamal "best friends" would often spend time together in Vrindaban, Mayapur, Australia, and so on. There are many photos of the two of them walking together in Vrindaban or elsewhere with big smiles. They were best of friends, and very close. Tamal recruited him in Los Angeles in 1969, and once rescued him from Hollywood when he had left the temple. 

Sept. 9, 1981, Tamal spoke in Melbourne about his host, Bhavananda Swami. Tamal explained how he recruited Bhavananda in Los Angeles. Some excerpts: 

“It was easy to see that he was a very special personality. The surprising thing to me was that he understood everything I was saying. There was no difficulty for him to grasp the (philosophy)… I never saw anyone take to Krishna consciousness so effortlessly before, he was practically already Krishna conscious. Simply there was some temporary covering, that’s all. 

"He didn’t pose any arguments, he was simply making questions and hearing, like I never met anyone. I was very glad to meet such a nice person; we were good friends and I felt very close to him. He was always blissful… So he just joined very easily, not in any way ordinary.” 

In Bhakticharu Swami’s Ocean of Mercy (p 102) it is written: “You [Bhavananda] are also one of those fortunate souls. I notice what a deep relationship you have with him. Maharaja smiled and said, ‘Yes that’s true. We developed a deep friendship from the first time we met.”

COMMENT: Yes, Tamal and Bhavananda were best of friends. Birds of a feather flock together. Tamal was almost certain to be involved in poisoning Srila Prabhupada, so just on the basis of how very close he was with Bhavananda, it is suspected Bhavananda would also be involved in some way, and more so than just knowing about it. Bhavananda spent much time with Tamal and Srila Prabhupada in late 1977.


Following is the "Statement by Bhavananda das" from "Not That I Am Poisoned"
 (2000), pg. 135: 

"I have been most apprehensive about becoming involved in what I saw to be an "endless debate" on the internet over the poison issue. When Hari Sauri prabhu made the point that many innocent devotees were becoming bewildered by all this I felt duty bound to make a statement - and one statement only - for the record. I did not poison Srila Prabhupada nor was I involved in a conspiracy to poison Srila Prabhupada. Absolutely none of my God brothers poisoned Srila Prabhupada. The entire poison issue is ludicrous and beyond absurd.

COMMENT: The evidence shows that someone certainly did poison Srila Prabhupada, so how can it be absurd? If it is so absurd and ludicrous in 2000, then why did Bhavananda not say this to Srila Prabhupada in 1977, when he was in the same room with him and other caretakers, and when Srila Prabhupada spoke about being poisoned, and no one in the room, including himself, protested? 

Why has this matter become absurd now, when it was acknowledged TEN times in a few minutes time in 1977? (see Ch. 12) Of course, Bhavananda does not address this glaring contradiction. Bhavananda says he did not poison Srila Prabhupada, he was not involved in a conspiracy to poison Srila Prabhupada, his God brothers did not poison Srila Prabhupada, and that the entire poison issue is ludicrous and beyond absurd. 

But from the transcripts of the Nov. 9-11, 1977 tapes (T-44/45/46), we see everyone at Srila Prabhupada's bedside agreed with the poisoning allegation. NO ONE, not Bhavananda, Tamal Krishna, Bhakticharu, the doctor, et al, made any such denial when Srila Prabhupada said (a) he was being poisoned (b) he had heard that he was being poisoned (c) he had the symptoms of someone who was being poisoned (d) he had read about the symptoms of poisoning.

GBC's book:

"Anyone who was present in Vrindavana at that time could not deny that every attempt both material and spiritual was made in an effort to keep Srila Prabhupada with us all as long as possible. Srila Prabhupada departed by his own sweet will and by the desire of Lords Krishna and Balarama."

COMMENT: Really? See Chapter 40: Rejection of Proper Medical Care. 

Actually, there was a very aggressive aversion to having qualified doctors come to see or disgnose Srila Prabhupada. Dr. Khurana, Naveen Krishna das’ father, came and offered to arrange a series of qualified medical specialists and a complete hospital staff with equipment to come to Vrinadaban from Delhi at their own expense to test and treat Srila Prabhupada in his quarters. The offer was refused by Tamal. There was a bewildering parade of medical men throughout 1977, as one was taken on, then rejected, and another sought out. Each one was discredited by Tamal, then rejected. This was a recurring pattern.

Those were extremely difficult times not only for those of us who were nursing him but also for all his disciples around the world. I don't know where Nityananda dasa was at that time but his assistance in caring for Srila Prabhupada would have been greatly appreciated by his Godbrothers.

COMMENT: The devotees all over the world nor Nityananda das were told that Srila Prabhupada had called all his disciples to come see him, and so they faithfully maintained their posts of service.

Srila Prabhupada was certainly never more approachable by all the devotees regardless of sannyasa, grhastha, male, female or even child. I remember thinking Srila Prabhupada would want some privacy from the video camera of Yadubara prabhu but he told me Yadubara should be allowed to film whatever he wanted. So you can understand that an atmosphere of openness prevailed, not one of secrecy and whispers as the real poison conspirators are implying.

COMMENTS: This is absolutely untrue. Tamal did not allow guests to see Srila Prabhupada unless he screened them and approved them. There was no openness. Bhaktisiddhanta das stated that he was the guard, and was instructed to keep everyone out. Maybe Yadubara had access, but others did not. But even if there was total accessability, does that prove that a secret poisoning was impossible? 

Bhakticharu also wrote in Ocean of Mercy that Tamal restricted all devotees from seeing Srila Prabhupada, who was “off limits.” Thus, Bhavananda who is here deliberately misportraying the situation in Srila Prabhupada’s last months, as one of accessibility for everyone to Srila Prabhupada when actually there was severely restricted access to Srila Prabhupada, then he must be either dishonest or completely unaware of the actual events which he himself experienced. Why would he mischaracterize the situation in 1977? Thus we think he is misportraying the situation for a hidden motive. What is it? Here are three confirmations about the severely restricted access to Srila Prabhupada in late 1977:

(1). BF: What do you mean were the guy at the garden gate ? 
Bhaktisiddhanta das (BSD): I was the guard at the garden gate [in 1977]. 
BF: What were your instructions? 
BSD: My job was to stop anyone who tried to enter. 
BF: By anyone, you mean who was not approved ? BSD: That's right. I was there everyday. 
BF: Are you telling me, you were one of Tamal's security force. 
BSD: Yes.

(2). “…Srila Prabhupada was about to leave his body. The doors of his room, which for months had been closed and guarded, were thrown open, and devotees streamed in.” (Ocean of Mercy, p 232, Nov 14, 1977)

(3). Long-time Indian resident Abhinandana das (2004) about Dr. Ghosh from Vrindaban Research Institute: 

“Dr. Ghosh only had one story to tell. Under the Tamal tree in Krishna Balaram Mandir, Srila Prabhupada was sitting (there is a famous photo), wearing dark sunglasses. Dr. Ghosh told us that Srila Prabhupada immediately recognized him and called him close to tell him something. However as he approached, devotees were instructed by Srila Prabhupada's servants to obstruct his path. He especially remembered big whomper kartalas in his face, and he gave up and left. He was extremely suspicious and definitely favourable towards the idea of foul play.”

Doubtless there is much work to be done for Srila Prabhupada to save the conditioned…. Let us all at least put this particular lunacy to rest to allow us to get on with the serious work at hand. I remain the most lowly and unqualified servant of all the Vaishnavas of ISKCON. Bhavananda dasa."

COMMENT: How can the Hare Krishna movement go forward without an honest, unbiased, and thorough investigation into this matter? The mountain of evidence demands it, and strongly points to poisoners of the pure devotee still remaining in the leadership of ISKCON. Bhavananda’s dismissal of the evidence as absurd is meaningless because he himself has no credibility due to his own past history. 

No righteous person would give credence to a man of Bhavananda’s character, except for the GBC who has chosen to enshrine his ‘statement’ in their publication. That they use someone like Bhavananda as a witness in defence, reveals their desperation and the depths oftheir darkness. It appears as though the institution controlled by very questionable elements is intent on harbouring the suspects without allowing any real, honest, or unbiased investigation. What an outrageous insider cover-up sham.

Bhavananda’s statement follows a similar pattern to that of the other suspects; a pretenious apathy to address the allegations of murder. This is -planned deception. He tries to stifle queries by labelling it a disturbance to "innocent devotees". Looking at his history, we find his disregard for "innocence" will show his concerns to be totally false.


Below we regretfully delve into the history of Bhavananda, not to simply dig up the mud and throw it around, but to show that after Bhavananda attained guruhood in 1978, he went practically crazy with sense gratification. When tempted with the opportunity to become an as good-as-God initiating guru himself just like Srila Prabhupada, he could not control himself. 

His life became consumed in the fire of that all-attractive ambition. The things Bhavananda did from 1978 to 1987 reveal a man who could do just about anything for his senses, and that kind of cruel and selfish person is certainly capable of involvement in poisoning someone. Child rape, sex with brahmacharis (voluntary and involuntary), beatings and abuse of school children, sex with taxi drivers, living an opulent high-life off of his disciples’ hard labour, and then never making any amends or even admissions, shows specific character traits. Thus he also cannot be trusted when he speaks or acts. 

Bhavananda aka Charles Bacis “They say power corrupts, and these 11 successor gurus had absolute power over their thousands of adoring disciples in their zones. They being worshipped as God. The craziness that developed from this is impossible to explain. Hardly can one believe it. I joined ISKCON at the height of this craziness in 1986, in perhaps the craziest place in ISKCON -Australia, where the God man was Vishnupada (Bhavananda) and we were all supposed to worship him. 

I lived in all the temples, I know all the devotees from that time, and I know exactly what was going on because I saw it with my own eyes. Bhavananda had twisted the philosophy of Krishna consciousness to facilitate his own material sense gratification. He did not have faults because he was a pure devotee of Krishna, non-different from Krishna... He was not having faults, but lilas, pastimes. And he was very much pleased by having sex with young males. He had a group of "intimate" advanced disciples and only to them he preached the true topmost philosophy of Krishna consciousness -- that the highest devotees please the spiritual master by having sex with him... 

It sounds crazy but it is true. He used his position as spiritual master in Srila Prabhupada's movement to collect young men for his sexual pleasure. He created a whole philosophy and justification for this by quoting from Prabhupada's books, with "intimate" disciples who served him in this way, and he kept the whole thing secret from all other devotees.”(Madhudhvisa das brahmachary, 2011) 

The number of accusations against Bhavananda for sexual molestation of children, sex with various brahmacharis, voluntary or involuntary, intoxication while working at Govinda’s Restaurant in Sydney, and flings with taxi drivers paints a picture of an uncontrolled sense gratifier.


ANON was a disciple of Prabhavishnu das, and a sincere and long standing Australian devotee since just after Srila Prabhupada departed, and who still serves at an ISKCON property in Australia. Through trusted intermediaries, the following history was received from ANON. When we tracked him down, he was understandably hesitant to speak with us, but we have his name and location on file.

“I was upstairs in the toilet of the sannyasi quarters of the North Sydney ISKCON temple in 1995 due to a very urgent, sudden call to use the toilet. I was behind the toilet door when Tamal and Bhavananda suddenly entered the sannyasi quarters. Tamal had been staying there on a visit. From the bathroom, and while I remained silent, I could clearly overhear their conversation, but they did not know I was there. 

Bhavananda at the time had just been sacked from Govinda's Restaurant in Sydney by Pratapana's wife, the Govinda's manager, allegedly because he was unable to control his drinking. Bhavananda wanted to continue living in the temple, to continue with the restaurant management for which he was receiving a stipend, but Tamal was completely opposed, saying those who could not maintain certain standards could not be so allowed. Bhavananda was getting very upset and strongly raised his voice. He wanted Tamal’s support and finally Bhavananda gave an ultimatum to Tamal: 

"You help me with this or I will publicly expose your activities and what really happened during Prabhupada’s last year while you were his secretary.”

“Tamal became quiet and acquiesced to Bhavananda, telling him to calm down. Tamal then successfully campaigned for Bhavananda’s reinstatement and continued involvement in the North Sydney temple. Tamal then soon departed Australia.” 

When ANON heard the allegations of the intentional poisoning of Srila Prabhupada in 1997, he reflected on this incident just a few years earlier, and he now strongly believes in his heart that Bhavananda's extortionary threat to Tamal was to reveal something about Tamal’s involvement with Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning. (As related by Mandapa das and Michael, in January 2016)


“The Australian temples all had 2 marathons a year, and in the name of Mayapur, Bhavananda took all the money. He did squander some of it on BMWs, first-class air fares, and expensive shoes etc. Also he chilled out in expensive holiday resorts. But there was no evidence that he had a stash because when he was sacked he didn’t have a cent. 

After his exposure for illicit sex I demanded his removal; as a result I was beaten up twice by his disciples. The next story has reached a little exposure. In the mid-80’s, he (Bhavananda) visited the Mildura farm and raped a young brahmachari who was threatened not to tell anyone. The kid was traumatised and became depressed, but he told Krodesvara das, the TP of the farm, what had happened. Then he committed suicide. This was around the time of Bhavananda’s expulsion. Krodesvara sought justice for the young boy. 

But no one believed, they were all protecting Bhavananda. Naresvara was residing in Sydney at the time and supressed the news. Krodesvara went to Mayapur where he protested loudly about what had happened. He was then kicked out of Mayapur for causing a disturbance. This incident has been kept secret for so long. I have told Subhalaxmi about this, and found that Krodesvara had told her years ago. So hopefully Bhavananda will be indicted. Krodesvara will willingly testify. Later Bhavananda was a paid employee of Pratapana das as the Maitre’d and brought all his gay and boy friends to drink champagne with him at Govinda’s.” (Sabhapati das, 2016) 

Bhavananda on his Guru Asana ... It is always good when stories such as the above are verified, and Achyuta das (2017) did so as follows: 

“I recall this incident very well and I have further information to add. Firstly, I will say I am saddened to learn of the suicide of that boy. I have wondered up until today, even contemplated trying to find him, what had become of him. I recall his name- not an initiated one- to be Matsya. He was a student at the gurukula when I was the headmaster. 

He was about 12 years old and had come to the school when his mother became a Bhavananda disciple. I recall she was a troubled person, drug user and prostitute from Kings Cross where the Darlinghurst temple and restaurant are located. The son came specifically through Bhavananda’s intervention- you know the drill- get her out collecting money and leave her child to be educated. 

“He was a rough boy, irreverent, not so much into being there but he got on alright and I remember his mother coming to visit occasionally. One day I received a phone call from Bhavananda asking me to send the boy from Murwillumbah to the Mildura farm. (as an aside, I recall his closest friend to be the boy I mentioned being chased through the woods by Gaur Gopal- poor kids)- I was troubled by the request. 

He was asking me to make arrangements to send a 12 year old boy on a 2,000-kilometer journey on his say so, with Bhavananda presenting himself as acting in the interests of the mother for Matsya’s welfare. The devotees in M’bah, there were no intelligent, responsible persons to consult with locally so I called Balarama das (Robert Horton) the President in Melbourne to talk about it. 

He was just as displeased as I was, didn’t think it was proper but counseled me to buckle under and comply with Bhavananda’s request to keep the peace. I do not recall exactly the details of the trip but I sent the boy off to Mildura. 

“Some time later the sauna in Bhavananda’s custom built residence at the farm in Mildura burned down. The insurance company demanded an investigation and sent investigators to the farm, determining the fire was arson. After studying the list of devotees they interrogated Matsya and his guilt was discovered. The insurance investigators concluded that they would not make the insurance payoff unless ISKCON pressed charges against the boy. 

I did not know these above facts then, and not long after the sauna was torched, Bhavananda came to Murwillumbah for one of his regular stays. I had a personal conversation with Bhavananda about Matsya and the fact that he had burned down the sauna. That was a very memorable conversation as I witnessed Bhavananda speak about Matsya with venom and hate. It was startling in its intensity and most unseemly in the person of a so-called guru. 

I recall him vowing- I use the word with the full intensity of its meaning- to prosecute him in court- he even used the phrase “to the full extent of the law.” 
“The case never went to court. The reason (I believe Khrodesvara was my informant here but it was a long time ago so I cannot be sure) was due to these factors. The mother had a brother, the boy's uncle, who was a police detective in South Australia. I was told he personally communicated that should they attempt to prosecute Matsya for the arson, the molestation of Matsya by Bhavananda in the sauna would feature prominently in the defense. 

For this reason, the case did not proceed. Still, Bhavananda was portrayed as a victim and ANOTHER MARATHON (the Aussie devotees were victims of many marathons conducted for nefarious purposes) was conducted to rebuild the entire place- I recall a 400K figure for that. 

“Oohh mate, there is so much more on this scumbag Bacis here in Oz.”


Bhavananda, Hansadutta, and Jayapataka were present when the poison whispers took place on November 11, 1977. It is widely perceived and recognized that Bhavananda’s voice is heard in these incriminating whispers. He is the one who giggles in the middle of the whisper: 

“The poison’s going down.” (Bhavananda giggles) “The poison’s going down.”  
Let the record reflect that many devotees consider it to be Bhavananda who is giggling, based on the recognizability of his unique voice. He was in the room, and the few others present do not have a voice like that in the giggle. Tamal is whispering about poison going down, and his close friend is giggling about it. Very weird, but it is what it is.

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Bhavananda: What medicine was he taking before that? 
Bhakticharu: Konsa...? (What....?) 
Kaviraja: Kuuch nahin. (Nothing.) 
Bhakticharu: He was referring to a case, a big murder case in Calcutta, the husband poisoned the wife. 
Bhavananda: Guha. 
Kaviraja: Svarupa Guha...abhi uska case..... (Svarupa Guha ...the case is now...) 
Bhakticharu: Shankara Bannerjee was... 
Bhavananda: Our lawyer is the...(sniggers/snickers).

We fail to find any humor in these discussions, but Bhavananda does. It is very clear that he and the others were discussing actual poisoning cases in reaction to Srila Prabhupada’s complaint of “That same thing, that someone has poisoned me.” So how was it not absurd in 1977, but now it is?


“Tamal was also very close to Bhavananda, and protected him on many occasions. Meanwhile, Tamal was saying openly, even in his class lectures, ‘Bhavananda is the most enlivening associate I have, out of all the GBC.’ So why have all these people chosen to protect Bhavananda, to cover up for him, to befriend him, to provide him with kingly opulence? What is it, exactly? Bhavananda didn't have charisma or shakti, but he's been like Teflon all these years. 

He's like the Ganges. 

You're made to believe that he's always pure, regardless of the fact you can feel, hear and see such filth in front of your eyes. Yet on the authority of the higher echelons of ISKCON, we're supposed to believe that it's just our own material contamination that causes us to see him as being impure, regardless of all the evidence. We can only conclude that Bhavananda is holding something over them, and they well know he's ruthless enough to use it if he doesn't get his way. We also haven't heard a peep out of anyone else who was at Mayapura at the time. There was Bhagavan, Rameswara, Harikesha, Tamal, and Hridayananda. 

You can assume with near certainty that they all knew about Bhavananda, just as all of them knew, in detail, about Kirtanananda. They knew Kirtanananda was a pedophile and they knew Bhavananda was a flagrant homosexual, if not also a pedophile. These men knew pretty much everything that was going on in the movement, in everyone else's zone. The pact they had amongst themselves was unbelievably strong. Their club membership trumped all the absolute principles of guru, shastra and sadhu, the spiritual master, common sense, and morals. The level of their camaraderie was so great it exceeded the laws of any land, whether India or the western countries. I've never personally experienced that degree of loyalty, nor have I seen it exhibited in any other circumstance throughout my life.” (Rocana das, Sampradaya Sun)

COMMENTS: Bhavananda lost his guruship in 1987, and then he was broke and dishonored. The pattern of favoritism and protection of Bhavananda that Rochan speaks of is likely due to the need to keep Bhavananda quiet, for all that he knew, as he held a great power over the others’ heads. The GBC had no choice but to expel him in 1987 because of the great rebellion amongst the general membership. The GBC had already reinstated him once; they could not get away with it a second time. But ever since then, Bhavananda worked his way back into ISKCON’s leadership; for many years he has been situated in top management of the Mayapur Planetarium project with support from financier Ambarisha das.


“The ISKCON Child Protection Office (CPO) has received several testimonies of alleged child abuse perpetrated by Bhavananda das. The CPO has received an email letter; dated November 19, 1999, from [?] reporting on a conversation he had with Bhavananda das. During that interview Bhavananda responded to some of the accusations of child abuse that he allegedly perpetrated. 

Bhavananda has not responded to other attempts of the CPO to contact him concerning the investigation of this case. 

“Bhavananda got angry with the children about something. He had all the children come downstairs to the basement and expose their bottoms. He started to whack them indiscriminately. Bhavananda made a child eat raisins till the child vomited. Bhavananda, practically every day, would punch the child’s arms. His arms had black and blue bruises due to this. This routine continued for about a year. The child reported that he told two leading ISKCON authorities about these arm-punching incidents, but they just laughed and didn’t take it seriously. 

This witness also related that Bhavananda would whack children on the head with a gong stick during kirtana. The witness further stated that on occasion Bhavananda would come to the gurukula and start abusing children, grabbing them to get them out of bed, pushing them, and yelling at them. 

“Witness 5, during a phone interview with a representative from the CPO, stated that 5 times, in the late 1970’s or early 1980’s, Bhavananda made him, when he was a teenager, masturbate Bhavananda, and Bhavananda passed semen. When Bhavananda read the allegations from witness 5, he shook his head in denial and said something about it being "some kind of madness," indicating that the accusation is absurd. Bhavananda did not reply to attempts by the CPO to obtain from him a written statement concerning the allegations of witness 5. 

“This panel herein acknowledges the many years of service that Bhavananda das has devoted to Srila Prabhupada's movement, and appreciates his expressed willingness to atone for the mistakes he made that caused suffering for children in Srila Prabhupada’s movement. The panel accepts the testimonies of witnesses 1, 2, 3, and 4. Concerning witness 5, there is some uncertainty as to whether witness 5 was a minor at the time of the alleged incidents. 

Thus it is not clear whether the allegations of witness 5 fall under the jurisdiction of the CPO, and therefore this panel will not adjudicate those allegations. Based on the evidence and descriptions above, this panel has determined the following: 

Bhavananda dasa physically and psychologically abused several children, thus causing pain and suffering for these young devotees.” (END)

COMMENT: We can’t help but notice that while other offences are serious, the allegations made by witness 5 are most alarming. Yet, it was never reported to the civil jurisdiction where it belongs due to uncertainty as to whether witness 5 was a minor at the time of the alleged incidents. There have been a number of other allegations of Bhavananda’s child rape and sexual molestation that were never investigated. A note from the Child Protection Office director Dhira Govinda das in regards to witness 5, received in 2017, is as follows: 

“The team that investigated the allegations from witness 5, and the panel that adjudicated the case of Bhavananda dasa, were quite certain that Bhavananda did do what was accused by witness 5. It just wasn’t certain whether witness 5 was a legal minor at the time of the transgressions, in the country where the transgressions happened.”



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"First of all Bhavananda (Charles Bacis) was caught in 1976 having anal sex with a young boy in Mayapura. Tamal Krishna covered up this incident according to Yasodanandana das. Bhavananda's history includes his assisting in the direction of the underground pornographic movie 'Chelsea Girls,’ in which the 'girls' were actually homosexuals. Bhavananda was friends with Andy Warhol. The next known case was in 1983, the one with the taxi driver (a chauffeur hired by the Vrindaban temple). This taxi driver also admitted he was having homosexual relations with Bhavananda's appointed Vrindaban temple president. Bhavananda paid 500 rupees to the driver for sexual relations while riding to Delhi.”



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“Many of these boys who were Bhavananda's disciples were known to be having sex with each other and molesting other younger children. Bhavananda would insist on inspections of us children during his visits. We lined up with only a loincloth, and he would go through the showers, then, with a corn scrubber in hand, look at our naked bodies and arbitrarily scrub some 'dirt' off.”


“Bhavananda as a Guru was a pedophile who habitually had sexual intercourse with men and gurukula children. A boy burned down Bhavanada’s house in Australia. When the boy was questioned by the police he said that the owner of the house had raped him. The local temple president testified in court that it was impossible and the boy was sent to a juvenile prison. By the time the boy was due to be released Bhavananda was no longer a Guru. Instead of attempting to make amends the temple president involved became concerned over a possible retaliation the boy might make against him. He was not at all repentant or empathetic for the child. In Vrindavana Bhavananda once threw a boy from the first floor balcony of the Gurukula building into the garden because the boy was irritating him. 

“When Bhavananda was the GBC, he was very close with Satadhanya (Maharaj), who was at one time the main manager in Mayapur. At this time there were Gurukula boys who were designated to be the “Swamis’ service boys” These boys are known to have had to perform sexual services. To this day Bhavananda gives classes and is offered respect and honor as a “senior” Prabhupada disciple. When he comes to Mayapur he is allowed to give class and still receives royal treatment. Why does nobody stand up to say that Bhavananda is not fit to sit on the Vyasasana and present the philosophy?”


“Here in Australia I have had to contend with the dark sith lord Charles Bacis aka Bhavananda; much of my 35 years in Oz have been affected by the dangerous, vicious actions of Bliss Charlie (I call him) and his flunkies. In the late eighties, I was required to maintain a discrete profile when a group of his followers decided that I should be killed. 

It was an Australian television broadcast, nationally televised, that featured an interview with me as regarding the alleged sexual misconduct of Bhavananda that got him removed from his post. The reason I know that the devotees plotted to kill me is because the designated killer fell at my feet in a public street upon encountering me for the first time in 13 years, confessing the plot and begging my forgiveness. 

His name was Yamuna Acarya, a name given by Bhavananda. He told me of purchasing the gun and setting his sights on sacrificing his life to avenge guru aprarada (on my part). Instead, he asked me to provide a deposition to the New South Wales Police in Murwillumbah, N.S.W. about my time as headmaster when I encountered Gaur Gopal chasing one of my gurukula students in the woods. Gaur Gopal was a homosexual pedophile, the ISKCON PR man and an associate of Bhavananda who had married Gaur Gopal off to the mother of the boy running in the woods. I provided that deposition to the police in 2002.

“Can you believe the old pervert is still going strong and lives not a stone's throw from the North Sydney Temple where he still minces around like the Queen of the Kirtan? I had close personal dealings for extended periods of time with Bhavananda which all contain plenty of "dark side" stuff. Bhavanada's pedophilia was a crime, some of it happened on my watch when I was the headmaster of the gurukula in Murwillumbah, Australia.” (Achyuta das, 2017)


“In November 1983 an Australian Srila Prabhupada disciple, Shyambhur das, arrived at my office at the Murwillambah Gurukula. 

Bhavananda the rising Hanibal 

He had been living in Mayapur with his French wife but had departed post-haste to Australia due to great alarm over the activities of Bhavananda in Mayapur that were in the process of being revealed. He had come to warn me, as the headmaster charged with training kids to be Bhavananda’s disciples. 
His story involved Bhavananda molesting underage boys at the gurukula in Mayapur. Then Bhavananda showed up at the farm within a day or two of this warning. He was ensconced in the “white house” (before his mansion was built) and my meeting with him is engraved on the retina of my memory like few other encounters in this lifetime. 

I called on Bhavananda in his quarters and announced solemnly that I needed to discuss something important with him. He was very cordial (Bhavananda had great charisma. He was a Charm Demon of the first order) and invited me to sit. There we were, the two Americans, and I’m not the same roll over as these Aussies. I told him word for word the allegations that had been brought to me.

“He took it all in and then…let the show begin. Bacis lied, acted, performed, and described the stories brought to me by Shyambhur as Krishna’s direct mercy on him because he had tolerated, forgiven, out of compassion, the sinful acts of the “queer pujari,” Shyambhur. He realizes now, he says, he should have been firm with Shyambhur about these sinful acts in the Holy Dham.

“Whenever I have gone back over that half hour with Bacis, remembering his claim of a special, direct real-time connection thru Prabhupada to Krishna as the reason these reports had begun to circulate- they were a chastisement to His Divine Grace Bhavananda Das Goswami himself for his lack of judgment in respect to these illicit behaviours of the punjari -I am amazed. 

He claimed due of his special role as direct connection to guru-Krishna, these rumors were a direct communication from Krishna to he himself of Krishna's displeasure at how he had handled Shyambhur’s child molestations. I approached Bhavananda to raise matters of utmost moral gravity and I, in retrospect, was subjected to the most untruthful, manipulative response one might imagine. I am an experienced psychiatric nurse, and the nursing notes on that encounter would have to include the word "psychopath" to describe that behavior. 

I know in the deepest part of my eternal being this man is an irredeemable evil, lying, scheming demonic human (in this lifetime at least). I left his quarters convinced by his humility, contrition, smooth black grease, that he was wrongly accused. Rakshasa level performance. 

“About two days later four officers from the Department of Immigration came to the gurukula looking for Jeffery Solomon. That is the legal name of Brighupati das (USA) who came to Australia before me, received an amnesty after overstaying his visa and was a legal resident of the country. When I was asked to take over the school, with Brighupati’s agreement, they gave me his name because I was in a high profile position, doing TV and radio interviews at a time the Hare Krishna Movement was in the spotlight and under fire and I was not legally in the country. 

"So, when the Immigration Officers came to the school looking for Mr. Solomon, they knew whoever was using his name was illegally in the country. I was taken in handcuffs from the school, placed in a state prison where I remained for over a month. 

“It was directly his fear of my knowledge of his crimes that led him to have me arrested and incarcerated in a state prison. I would have been deported but for Hari Sari's intervention, as he knew the truth and didn't let them railroad me. He gave me $5K so I could pay my own way from the country and not be deported. When I was arrested, the devotees went into my private residence and stole my household belongings, books, clothing, automobile, everything. I never saw any of it again. 

"I was forced to leave the country; I went to New Zealand directly from prison, and later was granted permanent residency in Australia but was required to enter Australia from country of origin (USA). So, I went to Dallas and worked under Tamal getting the Dallas gurukula recognized by the State of Texas, as I had done for the Australian school. 

“I returned to Australia in April of 1986. All the real troubles began after my return to the Darlinghurst Temple. I arrived to find Bhavananda, Chitta Hari, Pratapana and the whole criminal gaggle of ISKCON leadership ensconced in Bhavananda's $500K apartment, crisis-managing over $600K BBT money that had gone missing in an overnight cocaine deal gone wrong. The intermediary between the devotees and the deal makers was a Sydney Jewish attorney, the brother of a Bhavananda disciple married to Vamsivadana (do you remember him? 

"Canadian. Lives here. Mad as a hatter and calls himself a Rabbi of the Yadus- (Jews.) That money was recouped by another of those marathons the Aussie devotees were fond of- no one was ever told the truth about that incident. There are others who know more about the drugs than I. Chittahari, Pratapana (current and longtime head of Darlinghurst operations, millionaire (how does that happen?), Bhavananda, and some grimy hangers on, really they were a low-class operation with clearly flexible morality. I was always the outsider at the management meetings. That was a definite drug deal. There are reports it was not the only one.

“In your chapter, there is an item about the Punjabi taxi driver in Vrndavana. I remember that Punjabi, not his name. I met him in Florida, he was of Cuban origin.” (Achyuta das, 2017)


Paratrikananda das of Los Angeles had compiled a report in 1998 some reminiscences and anecdotes from various sources, and the following were about Bhavananda:

Late May 1977: Bhavananda describes to Yasodananda das about Srila Prabhupada’s upcoming appointment of ritvik representatives, then declares gleefully, “I can’t wait until we get to do this!”
Bhavananda eats French fries in a joyful mood at the time of Srila Prabhupada’s departure.
Bhavananda stands at the top of the stairs in Vrindabana at the time of Srila Prabhupada’s departure: “POWER! POWER! POWER!”


There are too many allegations of Bhavananda’s child and homosexual escapades so that it won’t all fit in this chapter. Suffice it to say he had no control, and crashed and burned as a zonal successor guru within a few years, having thoroughly ruined his credibility with his own reckless behavior. Someone with such uncontrollable lust for sense gratification, engaged in such lowly activities as child sex and rape, also allegedly arranging for murder, can also be expected to be the type of person who could poison his spiritual master for the all-attractive rewards of the power and wealth that would come as a result. In addition to the actual direct evidence, this personality assessment confirms he had the character of one capable of the worst sort of crimes. 

Now, someone may protest that it is irrelevant or faultfinding to dwell on Bhavananda’s character traits and history, but this is not so. In many criminal court trials, it is allowed and relevant to explore the character, history, and mentality of the accused as it relates to the crime at hand. So let us not fall for that sentimental trick again, “Oh, it is offensive to examine Bhavananda like that!” The levels of outright audacious cheating, narcissism, uncontrolled sex drive, perverted desires, lust for power, etc leads to think that, yes, the giggler in the whisper “the poison’s going down” could do something like poison someone. 

After all, he has done just about everything else, and the temptation of becoming as good as God will carry some away to do just about anything. 
To conclude, we refer to a conversation that Yasodanandana das recorded in his diary from July 1977 when Srila Prabhupada had announced the appointment of eleven ritviks to initiate disciples on his behalf. Bhavananda was included on the list.

BHAV: On behalf of Prabhupada. We’ll initiate while he is in this condition. 
YAS: What about after? 
BHAV: I guess we don’t know yet. 
YAS: (changing the topic) So it should be a nice fire sacrifice. 
BHAV: You take care of this. You put on a good show. 
(The fire sacrifice was ready to start and Bhavananda all of sudden exclaimed:) 
BHAV: I can’t wait till we start to do this. I can’t wait!

Bhavananda’s enthusiasm to take up the job of initiating disciples was just bubbling over. And although he and the others did not know in July how it applied to after Srila Prabhupada was gone, which wouldn’t be long since he was being lethally poisoned for many months already, by the time December came, their conspiracy to become successor acharyas was secretly discussed, fully developed, and already being implemented. Hansdadutta and Kirtanananda started initiating their own disciples before New Years Day, 1978. What happened between July and December that changed “We don’t know yet” to “It was clearly understood that we will become full gurus”?

Srila prabhupada doing arati at Krishna Balaram temple           Vrindavan, India


Srila Prabhupada: “Suppose if I am here and somebody kills me, and if you 
do not protest, is it a very good business? People will be surprised that “So many disciples
are there, and this man is being killed, and nobody do anything?” (75 41027SB.MAY Lectures)


[((( Audio-Clip03: 01:40-02:10 )))]
 Prabhupada: (groans)
“Devotee 1”: (whispered) Push real hard(?), it's going down..
“Devotee 2”: (giggles)
“Devotee 1”: ..The poison's going down.
“Devotee 2”: (holds back laughter, then coughs twice to regain composure)

Truth Committee - Nityananda Das