Friday, December 9, 2016

Modern Astronauts like child's play

The modern astronauts can travel only a few thousand miles away from the earth, and therefore their attempt to travel in the sky is something like child's play on the shore of an expansive ocean.

The moon is situated in the third status of the upper planetary system, and in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam we shall be able to know the distant situation of the various planets scattered over the vast material sky.

There are innumerable universes beyond the one in which we are put, and all these material universes cover only an insignificant portion of the spiritual sky, which is described as sanatana Brahmaloka.

—————–Reference: Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2, Chapter 5, Purport of Text 40-41

The kingdom of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the spiritual sky cannot be understood by any process other than hearing from the description of the Vedas. No one can go see it.

In this material world also, one who is unable to pay to go to a far distant place by motorized conveyances can only understand about that place from authentic books. Similarly, the Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky are beyond this material sky.

The modern scientists who are trying to travel in space are having difficulty going even to the nearest planet, the moon, to say nothing of the highest planets within the universe. There is no possibility that they can go beyond the material sky, enter the spiritual sky and see for themselves the spiritual planets, Vaikuntha.

—————–Reference: Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3, Chapter 15, Purport

Gita Jayanti (December 10th and 11th) Sunnyvale

On Attachment to Holy Pilgrimages (Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura)

On attachment to visiting the places of pilgrimages:
Mana Tumi Tirthe Sada Rata
by Srila: Bhaktivinoda Thakura

mana, tumi tirthe sada rata
ayodhya, mathura, maya, kasi, kanci, abantiya,
dvarabati, ar ache jata
tumi caho bhramibare, e sakala bare bare,
mukti-labha koribara tare
se sakala taba bhrama, nirarthaka parisrama,
citta sthira tirthe nahi kore
tirtha-phal sadhu-sanga, sadhu-sange antaranga,
sri-krsna-bhajana manohar
jatha sadhu, tatha tirtha, sthira kori' nija citta,
sadhu-sanga koro nirantar
je tirthe baisnaba nai, se tirthe nahi jai,
ki labha hantiya dura-desa
jathay baisnaba-gana, sei stana brndabana,
sei sthane ananda asesa
krsna-bhakti jei sthane, mukti dasi seikhane,
salila tathay mandakini
giri tatha govardhana, bhumi tatha brndabana,
abirbhuta apani hladini
binoda kohiche bhai, bhramiya ki phal pai,
baisnaba-sebana mor brata
1) My dear mind, you are always attached to all the different places of pilgrimage such as Ayodhya, Mathura, Maya, Kasi (Varanasi), Kancipura, Avantiya, Dvaravati, and so on.
2) You want to travel to all these holy places of pilgrimage again and again simply to the sake of obtaining liberation from the material miseries. But we actually see that your heart is not becoming resolutely fixed up by going to all these places; therefore all of you wanderings are simply useless labor for nothing tangible.
3) The ripened fruit and real benefit of any place of pilgrimage is the company of the pure-hearted devotees of the Lord. Establishing intimate and friendly relations with such devotees, let your mind be captivated by performing the charming worship of Lord Krsna in their association. Actually any place in the entire world becomes a worshipable place of pilgrimage if devotees are living there. Thus you should immediately seek out such a place, wherever you happen to be, and you should become fixed up in Krsna consciousness by constantly remaining in the company of such devotees.
4) Personally, I never bother to visit any so-called place of pilgrimage which is devoid of the presence of unalloyed devotees, for what other worthwhile benefit could possibly be gained by taking the trouble of walking to such faraway places? Only that place which is graced by the presence of the devotees is actually Vrndavana, and only at that place can you come into contact with unlimited spiritual pleasure.
5) Liberation personified is herself the humble maidservant of that place which is surcharged with devotion to Krsna. All the water at that place is the celestial Ganges, every hill there is Giri-govardhana, and the very earth is indeed Vrndavana. Only such a place can manifest the appearance of the eternal spiritual joy which is revealed by the Lord's pleasure-potency.
6) I ask you now, dear brother, what benefit would I get by circumambulating all of the holy places of pilgrimage? Personally, my vow is to serve the Vaisnavas with firm resolution and untiring endeavor.

Thursday, December 8, 2016

New Akshaya Patra Mega Kitchen

A "Monitor Guru" is only a Shiksha Representative

Prahladananda Swami 

Current big promoter of neophytes posing as diksha acharyas ....

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada says that we neophytes cannot act as diksha gurus, because then we will be absorbing sins (karma), and this will cause us to get sick, fall down, or both (and die when the illness is too severe). Yet Prahladananda Swami is one of the main current persons who supports that we no longer need to have any regard for these statements from Srila Prabhupada, he says we need kanistha level devotees (like his God brothers) to take the post of diksha gurus, never mind the result is that most of his God brothers have been suffering an odious result. 

So Prahladananda swami's policy has already caused many of his God brothers to get sick, fall down, or both, and even die, and yet he still wants to toss many more of his God brothers under his army tank treads and cause them to fail, fall, suffer and die. 

One thing that amazes us is that a GBC guru was seen on a video walking out the door on the way to the hospital, where he is dying from cancer, and some of his people are STILL touching his feet -- and giving this guru more and more karma -- as he leaves the house! Jayapataka is nearly dead from his karma overload, and he still initiated even more people recently, so he can take even more karma!    

And Prahladananda types are cheer leading this process. That means these gurus are taking EVEN MORE karma, even when they are going off to die -- from taking karma! Mahesh Raja mentions the fact that neophytes cannot take sins in the article below ... and he makes many other solid points. Bravo. ys pd]

Monitor does NOT give Diksa Compiled by: Mahesh Raja, UK.

The "Monitor Guru" does NOT give Diksa BUT acts as a Ritvik Representative who can give 1st and 2nd Initiations ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada, the Acarya as per July 9th 1977 order.

I was asked some questions by a devotee recently – the exchange will be of interest to others:

Q. (Does it mean that as long as one is kanistha adhikari or less, there is no real pressing need to take diksa since it is only a formality?)

Press Interview, October 16, 1976, Chandigarh

Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?

Srila Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.

Note: KNOWLEDGE is the pressing need. One can do without admission in a school but he has to have knowledge. Srila Prabhupada wanted everyone to get admission in the “school” i.e. get initiated, spiritual name then progress to 2nd initiation stage Brahman initiation. Just because the situation now in ISKCON is topsy-turvy does not mean that we are not making progress without the formality aspect.

[PADA: Correct. Many newer people in our Prabhupadanuga camp know that acharyas do not fall down into debauchee behaviors, while many "senior initiated Prabhupada disciples" are preaching that acharyas are often deviants, or worse, some of the "GBC members and gurus" are the very exact same fallen and deviated acharyas themselves. That means some newer people without formal initiation can have a better grip on the siddhanta than so-called formal initiated. So divyam jnanam is the main element, formality is secondary.] 

The way forward is about ACQUIRING the actual Brahminical (sattva guna) QUALIFICATIONS then progressing onwards to freeing from material bondage.

Brahmana (Kanistha)

Formality is not always essential and it does not mean that you will not make progress if the conditions do not allow this formality Initiation. Whereas KNOWLEDGE you cannot do without – at all! Srila Prabhupada met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in 1922 but took initiation in 1933. That is 11 years.

Q. (Or in other words if initiation is just a formality for most of us and knowledge or hearing from the pure devotee is more important why insist on the ritvik order?)

Schools are important although you can study at home and have knowledge. Srila Prabhupada wanted the Ritvik System so that everyone can make progress like in a school. If there is a WHOLE SET-UP your progress is EASIER than at home. The factor for going to get admission in school is KNOWLEDGE.

Q. (Why is the ritvik order so important since most of us are not even qualified to take real diksa? Is it to help us avoid taking diksa from false guru and get cheated as all kanisthas do?)

The Ritvik System helps BOTH parties make progress. The Disciples accept Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru and the Ritvik is helped because he does not take have to take the sinful reactions of the disciples because the disciples are Srila Prabhupada’s, NOT the Ritvik’s.

If the person acts guru (priest) independently and accepts disciples then he has to suffer the resultant SINFUL reactions:

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.35 Purport, Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.

The professions of a qualified brahmana are pathana, pathana, yajana, yajana, dana and pratigraha. The words yajana and yajana mean that a brahmana becomes the priest of the populace for the sake of their elevation. One who accepts the post of SPIRITUAL MASTER neutralizes the sinful reactions of the YAJAMANA, The one on whose behalf he performs the YAJNA. Thus the results of THE PIOUS acts PREVIOUSLY PERFORMED BY THE PRIEST OR SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE DIMINISHED. THEREFORE PRIESTHOOD IS NOT ACCEPTED BY LEARNED BRAHMANAS. Nevertheless, the greatly learned brahmana Visvarupa became the priest of the demigods because of his profound respect for them.

Q. (Some ISKCON "gurus" say they are just monitor gurus and giving diksa on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. They say there is no need for them to be Uttama to be monitor gurus; yet still they feel they are ALSO acting as diksa gurus. They say that Agni or the fire takes the karma of disciple at initiation and they only take the karma after initiation if the disciple misbehaves.)

A. The monitor does NOT give Diksa. In a school the monitor accepts the charge ON BEHALF of the teacher. It is not the monitor’s students. The students are the teacher’s.

The INITIATOR throughout the process of Diksa is ONE. There are not TWO initiators. The HOLY name is given by the Ritvik ON BEHALF of PURE DEVOTEE Srila Prabhupada because the HOLY name KRSNA is property of PURE DEVOTEE. Krsna is not a property of CONDITIONED soul. Conditioned soul can NOT give Krsna. This is WHY its ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada.

Divya Jnana is DIKSA and there is ONLY ONE INITIATOR the Maha Bhagavata on whose BEHALF the Ritvik can give 1st and 2nd initiation FORMALITIES on BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada the actual INITIATOR.

Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters: If one develops love for Krsna by Krsna conscious activities, one can know the Supreme Absolute Truth, but he who tries to understand God simply by logical arguments will not succeed, nor will he get a taste for unalloyed devotion. The secret is that one must submissively listen to those who know perfectly the science of God, and one must begin the mode of service regulated by the preceptor. 

A devotee already attracted by the name, form, qualities, etc., of the Supreme Lord may be directed to his specific manner of devotional service; he need not waste time in approaching the Lord through logic. The expert spiritual master knows well how to engage his disciple’s energy in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and thus he engages a devotee in a specific devotional service according to his special tendency. A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN. There is no limit, however, to the number of instructing spiritual masters one may accept. Generally a spiritual master who constantly instructs a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.

Krishna Book, Ch 80, The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana

“If a man is sufficiently educated in student life under the guidance of a proper teacher, then his life becomes successful in the future. He can very easily cross over the ocean of nescience, and he is not subjected to the influence of illusory energy. My dear friend, everyone should consider his father to be his first teacher because by the mercy of one’s father one gets this body. 

The father is therefore the natural spiritual master. Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE.

Q. (According to sastra what is the correct understanding and what is the difference between a monitor guru and ritvik acarya?)

Ritvik July 9th 1977 is a CLEAR directive of what Srila Prabhupada wanted.

Srila Prabhupada has made no actual comparison between Ritvik Acarya and Monitor Guru. But monitor is NOT the giver of DIVYA jnana DIKSA. Diksa is ONLY given by MAHA-BHAGAVATA Srila Prabhupada. Monitor CAN act as SIKSA guru with limited ability to uplift the disciples.

Easy Journey to Other Planets, Chap 1, Antimaterial Worlds

13. He must not take on unlimited disciples. This means that a candidate who has successfully followed the first twelve items can also become a spiritual master himself, just as a student becomes a monitor in class with a limited number of disciples.

Letter: Madhudvisa, August 4, 1975

The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. **I am in the initiator guru**, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.“I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be **my disciples**. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are **initiated by me** spiritually.”

(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)

Nectar of Devotion, Chap 8, Offenses to Be Avoided

The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

brāhmaṇo vai gurur nṛṇām
sarveṣām eva lokānām
asau pūjyo yathā hariḥ

mahā-kula-prasūto ‘pi
sarva-yajñeṣu dīkṣitaḥ
sahasra-śākhādhyāyī ca
na guruḥ syād avaiṣṇavaḥ

(The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.)

Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.


The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. It is said: gurur nṛṇām. The word nṛṇām means “of all human beings.” The guru is not limited to a particular group. It is stated in the Upadeśāmṛta of Rūpa Gosvāmī that a guru is a gosvāmī, a controller of the senses and the mind. Such a guru can accept disciples from all over the world. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. This is the test of the guru.

In India there are many so-called gurus, and they are limited to a certain district or a province. They do not even travel about India, yet they declare themselves to be jagad-guru, gurus of the whole world. Such cheating gurus should not be accepted. Anyone can see how the bona fide spiritual master accepts disciples from all over the world. 

The guru is a qualified brāhmaṇa; therefore he knows Brahman and Parabrahman. He thus devotes his life for the service of Parabrahman. The bona fide spiritual master who accepts disciples from all over the world is also worshiped all over the world because of his qualities. Lokānām asau pūjyo yathā hariḥ: the people of the world worship him just as they worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. All these honors are offered to him because he strictly follows the brahminical principles and teaches these principles to his disciples. Such a person is called an ācārya because he knows the principles of devotional service, he behaves in that way himself, and he teaches his disciples to follow in his footsteps. Thus he is an ācārya or jagad-guru

Wednesday, December 7, 2016

Bhakta Torben Still Promoting Worship of Nothing

Stainless Steel-nail to the Ritvik Coffin


"If you have not found out a spiritual master, but if you are sincere, then Kṛṣṇa will take you to a bona fide spiritual master. And if you get a bona fide spiritual master, then he will take you to Kṛṣṇa. So both things parallel. If you are sincere... Krsna is always sitting within your heart, caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. That spiritual master within the heart manifests himself externally as spiritual master.

Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ. Sākṣāt, directly, directly representative of Kṛṣṇa.

This is the verdict of all śāstras. Samasta.

Samasta means all śāstra. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva.

And it is not only stated, but it is accepted as such by all great sadbhiḥ, devotees."

Srila Prabhupada, Los Angeles, 16th of May, 1970

[PADA: OK sorry, but we are the people who have put a nail in the Torben's program's "living gurus" by exposing that their alleged "Jesus like" living gurus are often debauchees. And notice, we have forced Torben to be unable to even mention the name of his alleged living guru in public, because Torben says as soon as he mentions the name of his living (GBC) guru "we will make offenses to his guru." 

Well no, we will not make any offenses, we will simply point out that Torben's guru lineage is out there having illicit sex with men, women, children and maybe goats. And that is why we have shamed poor Torben into not mentioning that his living guru's program is still connected to the GBC's debauchee guru process.

So we are the people who put a nail in the Torben / Rocana / Kailash / project because now they can never even tell anyone who their alleged living guru is anymore? That means they have no guru that they can recommend in public, because as soon as they tell us the name of their alleged living guru, we will link the name of their living guru to the GBC's debauchee program. So now Torben is openly promoting the worship of NO ONE and NOTHING. Of course why do they prefer to worship no one and nothing instead of worshiping Krishna and His pure devotee? The solution to life is, to worship no one and nothing? This is mayavada on steroids.

Torben is however correct, people who are sincere will find the bona fide guru SRILA PRABHUPADA and they will stop worship of Torben's illicit sex guru process / worship of nothing-ness pooja. Yep, this is the whole problem, the Rocana / Kailash / Torben program has been promoting the worship of deviants, and we caught them, and so now they cannot even tell anyone who the guru is! We have shamed them into silence! 

All glories to NO ONE! 
Who lives NO WHERE! 
Who has NO NAME! 
Who has NO BOOKS! 
Who has NO TEMPLES! 

Hah hah, so the guru they have now is official -- its NOBODY! They cannot even mention who their guru is, because of us, we have shamed them into stopping promoting of ANYONE, to stop them from promoting debauchees. Anyway, their idea that illicit sex is the shaksat hari tvena guru is falling apart, and the ritviks are winning because at least we know who their guru is! 

Good job Torben, we put a nail in your idea's coffin, you cannot even name your living guru anymore because we have shamed your living guru project into silence. That means we are winning, a religion that promotes the worship of NO ONE is not going to take hold, its going to collapse, and it is. 

Hah hah, we will "make offense" by pointing out that Torben's gurus are deviants, or supporters of same, this is not a good explanation is it? Of course this begs the question, why doesn't Torben's guru lineage know that acharyas are not deviants? And we cannot attain God by worship of nothing? ys pd]

Tuesday, December 6, 2016

What Caused Our Coming to the Material World? (Srila Prabhupada)

"What Caused Our Coming Here?"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.8.7
Los Angeles, February 10, 1975

Prabhupada: Where is karatala? My karatala is in that... Where is Nitai?
Jayatirtha: It was planned for you to lecture this evening, rather than this morning.
Prabhupada: Management?
Devotee: He thought you were lecturing this evening.
Prabhupada: Evening? Not in the morning?
Pusta Krsna: Where is Nitai?
Prabhupada: I was lecturing in the morning at...
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Prabhupada: If you like, I can speak in the evening also.
Devotees: (very loud) Jaya! Haribol!
(Prabhupada sings Jaya Radha-Madhava) [break]
Nitai: (leads chanting) Yad adhatu-mato brahman... [break]

Prabhupada: ...being completely aware of Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, not a bogus. If you want to receive knowledge, then you must approach a guru who is brahma-nistham. That is the qualification of guru. Brahman, brahmany upasamasrayam. These words are there. He is living in Brahman, Absolute Truth. He has no other business. That is guru.

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah
[Bg. 4.34]

Tattva-darsinah, "who has seen the truth," not imagination. He cannot be guru. Who has actually seen, tattva-darsinah... These are the injunction in the sastras, and Pariksit Maharaja is strictly following the same principles and asking Sukadeva Gosvami, bhavanto janate yatha: "As you have learned from your predecessor." So that is perfect knowledge. The knowledge is coming from Krsna. Krsna is all-perfect, and Arjuna is hearing directly from Him, and the statement of Arjuna is there in the Bhagavad-gita. He understands that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; that is, he acquired knowledge from Krsna.

So here the question is... This question is almost inquired by intelligent persons, that "We have come to this material world and suffering, but the living entity is part and parcel of Krsna, or God. How he has come to this material world?" That is very intelligent question. Therefore it is said here, yadrcchaya: "It is automatically, by nature's law," or hetuna, "or there is some cause? Whether there is any cause about the living entities coming down in this material world? Which one is correct?" So without any cause, there cannot be anything. That is logic. 

And the rascal philosopher's statement, "It happened automatically. There was a chunk, and the creation came...," this is rascal's philosophy. Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. The rascals, they do not accept that there is a cause of this creation. That they do not understand. They do not know, and they theorize. You'll find mostly in the Western countries all these philosophers... The Darwin's theory... He cannot give any reasonable cause. Some theory: "It may be, perhaps, for millions of years there was no..." Speculate. And he admits that "Whatever I am presenting, it is all my speculation." 

We have seen his letter, some, from 150 years ago. He wrote a letter to a friend. He admitted that "Whatever I am presenting, that is speculation." But science is not speculation. Science cannot be speculation. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four" -- this is science. And if you speculate -- "Two plus two equal to five" or "Two plus two equal to three" -- that is not science.

So the science of Krsna is not speculation. It is exactly science. Tad-vijnanam. Tad-vijnanam. Tad-vijnanartham. Vijnana means science, not speculation. So one should understand God scientifically. That is required, not imagination. The Mayavadi philosophers, they say, "You can imagine your God." This is rascaldom. How you can imagine your God? God is God. God means the supreme controller, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary you'll find this word: "God means the Supreme Being." He is also a being like us, individual. Just like we are here face to face. You are one individual; I am one individual. We are talking or hearing. Similarly, God is also individual. Just like Krsna said,

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
[Bg. 4.1]

So He's individual person. He instructed the sun-god millions and millions of years ago. So Arjuna inquired, "How it is possible that millions of years ago...? Because You are my contemporary. You are of the same age." So Krsna said that "Millions of millions of years ago, when I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god, you were also present because you are My intimate friend. Whenever I descend, you are also there. But the difference is that you have forgotten; I remember that I said like this."

So that is the difference between Krsna and ordinary living being. Krsna remembers everything, knows everything. Vedaham samatitani: [Bg. 7.26] "I know everything." That is Krsna. But we do not know. That is the difference. Krsna is not impersonal. He's also a person, but He is not a person like us, like you, like me. His personality is supreme. Nobody is greater than Him. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate na tat-samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate. These are the Vedic information. 

He's individual, but He has nothing to do. He's such individual. Just like Krsna is here. The whole world is going on under Krsna's direction, but He has nothing to do. He's enjoying with Srimati Radharani. That is Krsna's position. Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). He has to create one universe or destroy one universe -- He hasn't to take any attention. He's engaged in His pleasure -- Krsna, the reservoir of pleasure. His pleasure is never disturbed by all these activities. 

He's so perfect. Just like in our society, we are not perfect. Still, you boys and girls, you love me. Whatever I say, immediately done. So if an ordinary person like me, he can do things without his personal endeavor, how far..., how Krsna is great, that na tat-samah, there is nobody equal to Him. How great He is, how powerful He is, you can just imagine. If the ordinary person can have some power that he hasn't got to do anything personally -- simply by his desire everything is done -- so why not Krsna also? Where is the difficulty?

In the Bible I think it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? So that is Krsna. He simple desires, "Let there be creation," and immediately everything is ready. That is Krsna. How it is being done? Automatically? No automatically. It is done regularly, as you do. Hetuna: there is cause. But the original cause is Krsna's desire. Sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1].

isvarah paramah krsnah
anadir adir govindah
[Bs. 5.1]

The original desire is Krsna's. What we are doing also, that is also... The original cause is Krsna. We cannot do anything independently. If I go to heaven or go to hell, that is also sanctioned by Krsna. Without Krsna's desire I cannot do anything. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita:

sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto
mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca
vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham
[Bg. 15.15]

So this theory, that the world is going automatically or we have come into this material world without any reason, without any cause... Kim anyat kama-haitukam. They say, the rascals say, that our coming to this material world is to the lusty desires of the father and mother. Therefore the child has no meaning. It is a by-product of the lusty desire. So if I don't want it, kill it. Destroy it. This is going on. But that is not the fact. The child has come into the womb of the mother, a particular type of mother -- not the sa..., every mother is producing the same type of child. No. Why? 

There is cause. There is cause, hetuna. Without cause there cannot be anything. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1], the cause is his activities. According to the activities, he is producing the next body automatically. That is automatically. But there is cause, his activity.

That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita: karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. Karanam. Karanam means cause. What is the cause? The cause is that as he's associating with a particular type of the modes of nature, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna... If he's associating with tamo-guna, then next life he's preparing in the lower animal kingdoms or most degraded family. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. If one is associating with tamo-guna, ignorance -- no knowledge, in the darkness -- then he is gliding down to the lower species of life: animal, birds, beast, trees, plants, aquatics, insects, serpents, so many. 

Adho gacchanti. Adhah means going down. Tamasah. And urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are in the goodness, those who are associating with the modes of material nature in goodness, just like satyam samo damas titiksa arjavam, jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42], brahminical qualification, truthful, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, simplicity, tolerant, full faith in scripture and God, full knowledge, practical application of knowledge... This is called sattva-guna. So if you cultivate sattva-guna, then you are elevated to the higher planetary system. Why there are so many planets? The moon planet, the sun planet, so brilliant planets -- why there are? There are also different places for different kinds of living creature. There is hetu. There is cause. And similarly, rajo-guna, passionate...

So madhye tisthanti rajasah. So there is hetu. Hetu means cause. Not without cause. Nobody has taken birth in this material world without any cause. And according to the cause, the particular type of body is built up. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. A big science there is. Unfortunately there is no education for this science. Maybe in future they will take interest. As we are publishing the books and going to the universities and to the professors, there may be. There is possibility now. Otherwise these rascals did not know what is this science. They did not care. Big, big professors, big, big scientists, they are putting the theories that life has come from chemicals, chemical evolution, and they are getting Nobel Prize. And if they are offered that "Take these chemicals. Produce a life," they'll deny.

So this ignorance is going on. Therefore for future guidance, Pariksit Maharaja inquired this question, that "How the living entity got this body, material body? Whether it is automatically, without any cause, or with cause?" But with cause... It will be explained. It is not... When the cause is there... Just like if you infect some disease, automatically you'll suffer from the disease. It will come automatically. That is automatically. 

But your becoming infected, that is cause. So if you become cautious not to be infected, then the cause of lower birth or suffering you can avoid. Therefore we have started this society, society. Society means that you'll get here the cause of being elevated. Just like there are so many societies, equal class of men. "Birds of the same feather flock together." So here is a society. Who will flock here? Who will come here? Because this society is meant for liberation... People are suffering so much on account of material condition of life. Nobody is happy. That is a fact. But because they are in ignorance, they are accepting unhappiness as happiness. This is called maya. This is called maya.

Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. This maya is very much manifest in sex life. They accept the sex life is very nice, but after that, there is so many distresses. Legal or illegal, it doesn't matter. Legal distresses or illegal distresses, but it is distress. Every one of us, we know. Therefore everything -- to make the best use of a bad bargain. We have got this material body. The cause was there. The cause was there that because we wanted to enjoy and did not like to serve Krsna. This is the cause. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. We are serving Krsna. That is our, I mean to say, place, constitutional position, to serve Krsna, but sometimes we desire: "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why shall I serve the spiritual master? I shall enjoy. I shall enjoy." But that enjoyment was there by serving Krsna, but he wanted to become enjoyer independent of Krsna. That is the cause of falldown. With Krsna, you can enjoy very nicely. You have seen the picture, how with Krsna the gopis are nicely dancing, enjoying; the cowherd boys are playing. Enjoy with Krsna, that is your real enjoyment. But without Krsna, when you want to enjoy, that is maya. That is maya.

So maya is there always, and... Because unless there is darkness, you cannot appreciate the quality of brightness; therefore Krsna has created darkness, maya also, so that you can appreciate what is brightness. Two things are required. Without brightness, the darkness cannot be appreciated, and darkness... Without darkness, the brightness cannot be appreciated. The two things are there, side by side. Just like there is sunlight, and here is shadow, side by side. You can remain within the shadow; you can remain within the sunshine. That is your choice. If we remain in the darkness, then our life is miserable, and if we remain in the light, brightness... Therefore Vedic literature instructs us, tamasi ma: "Don't remain in the dark." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." So this attempt, Krsna consciousness movement, is an attempt to bring people from darkness to the light. So don't misuse this opportunity. Some way or other, you have come in contact with this movement. Properly utilize it. Don't go to the darkness. Always remain in bright light.

Thank you very much. (end)

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Sunday, December 4, 2016

Rocana's Church of Posthumous Pooja

Are Krishna's Successors Posthumous Dead Folks?

Rocana's Posthumous Church

"The Church Of Ritvik" By Rocana dasa/

[PADA: Rocana prabhu was a big supporter of the post 1977 GBC gurus after Srila Prabhupada departed, serving dubious "gurus" like Hansadutta, Kirtanananda and others. He seems to have later fallen off their train wreck in the later 1980s, only when the GBC was running out of vouchers and payments to give to their loyalists like Rocana. 

Meanwhile, we had been writing papers critical of the GBC as were being published in the "Vedic Village Review" and elsewhere, and yet Rocana remained oddly -- silent. Although he sometimes says he has "reformed" and he wants to join us to promote "The Sampradaya Acharya" Srila Prabhupada, he then goes back to the bogus GBC policy of (which is at least what Atreya Rsi calls it) "stabbing Prabhupada in the back"; the GBC policy of promoting that Srila Prabhupada is the "dead and gone post - samadhi / posthumous guru." 

It thus appears that Rocana has re-joined the GBC since: he is writing a paper giving the GBC's exact "living guru" arguments, indeed Rocana is using the GBC's terms such as "post samadhi," and then he is submitting his "through the back door" GBC paper to be published on the "GBC friendly" web sites. Rocana is thus back -- to officially attacking the people who want to establish the worship of the Sampradaya Acharya Srila Prabhupada.]

* Rocana dasa (RD): Introduction: In my previous paper, entitled "Sampradaya Acarya," I choose to exclude a number of sections in order to maintain focus on the central theme. In this paper, I hope to clearly explain the degree to which I differ from philosophical exponents of post-samadhi diksa.

[PADA: First of all, Rocana correctly says that that Srila Prabhupada is "the Sampradaya Acharya," a term used even by us Prabhupadanugas, and this term was even used in Hansadutta's "reform" book some years ago. Yet then Rochana suddenly switches hats and becomes a disciple of (the GBC's guru) Ravindra Swarupa's saying: Srila Prabhupada is dead, gone, "posthumous," "post mortem," and in sum: Srila Prabhupada is now the "post samadhi" diksha guru.

Meanwhile Rocana never tells us who is the current diksha guru for ISKCON? Its not Srila Prabhupada, who is it then? He never says. So he wants us to apparently, worship no one? 

And let us not forget that Rocana's co-writing team members such as: Ravindra / Jayadvaita / Tamal / Kailash et al., have ALSO previously referred to Srila Prabhupada as the "posthumous" guru only a few short years ago. That is, until they received so many complaints from folks like us that they had to change their "posthumous" term to "post samadhi." So the idea they are painting is clear: that Srila Prabhupada is "post" i.e. "posthumous" and he is thus "dead." 

It seems that first Srila Prabhupada was poisoned to make him "dead" physically, and then along came the Tamal / Gaudiya Matha deviants / Ravindra / Rocana / Kailasha Chandra team who conspired to make him ideologically "dead" with their "guru is (posthumous) dead" dogma.

We know of no other bona fide religion with either Vedic or Western roots that teaches "our guru is the dead and posthumous one." We also know that if Rocana had come into Prabhupada's room before 1977 and said, "Who are we going to worship as 'living' when you are the -- dead, gone and the posthumous one," he would have been laughed out of the room in derision, but as we know, when the cat is (allegedly) away, the mice will play. 

Now Rocana asks, "Why worship a dead body like that of the Sampradaya Acharya's? What about reading my papers, after all, I am living"? He has become Ravindra's twin brother. Of course people also thought like Rocana even when Krishna was present. "Once this blasted Krishna fellow is out of our hair, then we will declare He is dead and gone, and we will be worshiped as 'the living Kings, the living expert authorities, the living this and living that,'" because Srila Prabhupada says, they were envious of Krishna even when He was here, plain and simple. 

And similarly Srila Prabhupada says that the Gaudiya Matha's "living guru" project was based on the fact that they were "envious of my guru maharaja." And so Srila Prabhupada says that just like they tried to get rid of Krishna, they may try to get rid of me.

Rocana's "posthumous guru" idea was thus mentioned many times by Srila Prabhupada as part of the deviant teachings of the post 1936 Gaudiya Matha in India: "As soon as it was announced that guru maharaja is dead, I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru" (Srila Prabhupada 1976). 

Thus Rocana's second idea, that Srila Prabhupada is the "posthumous guru," is all part of the terminology coined by the GBC's ideological (siddhanta) leaders, such as the Gaudiya Matha's deviants and their followers such as Jayadvaita and Ravindra swarupa? Of course the GBC's advisors such as Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, BV and BP Puri Maharajas, and similar others have also said the same thing, they all supported the worship of the GBC's deviant guru lineage. Their collective idea is that: at least the deviants we are supporting as gurus are "living." So for the deviants, it is better to worship another deviant than a "a posthumous departed acharya."

It is an incontestable historical fact that their idea of "worship of a living body" (vapuh vada) subsequently lead to worship of deviants after 1936 in India. And later, when their "living bodily guru worship" (vapuh vada) was adopted by the GBC in ISKCON it lead to the same thing, worship of deviants after 1977. 

This has all been recorded in the public newspapers, and thus this fact has never been contested by the GBC or their supporters such as Narayana Maharaja. Yet notice, they are still very proud of their deviations and will not admit to their glaring mistake, never mind that their "posthumous guru" dogma has lead to weird and dangerous "living guru" cults, and then the mass molesting of thousands of children, murders, horrific publicity, and the curse of a high rate of suicides among their victims, and so on and so forth? 

In other words, they said that you need to worship a living body, which is not found anywhere in the Vedic writings, then they selected deviants as the "living body" one had to worship. Rocana is essentially stating that he is still in league with this group?

Notice: Srila Prabhupada says that these "living guru" thinkers are in actual fact "killing guru" with their bogus ideology, or siddhanta. They are attacking the acharyas not necessarily with physical weapons like guns. So these "guru killers" ideologues are using their words to attack and kill the acharya. "Our guru, oh yes he is the posthumous one, our guru is the dead and gone one." That means they are "killing their guru" with their ideology. Either that or Rocana seems to be confused right from the beginning? A "Sampradaya Acharya" is someone who is very much relevant now, even if he has departed physically. 

Meanwhile, these sophisticated self proclaimed "advanced" devotees have at one time or other promoted the worship of deviants as "Krishna' successors," including their alleged great independent scholars such as Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja and BV and BP Puri Maharajas, all of the GBC's various "advisors" over the years. 

Rocana does not say how he differs from these thinkers? Rocana says we need to worship a living person, not a dead and gone person like Srila Prabhupada. He only differs from the GBC in that his "living guru" has no name, address or apparent real existence? Either that, or the "living guru" of Rocana's is really: Rochana himself, since Srila Prabhupada says that by minimising the acharyas one is making himself the guru?

In short, their real agenda is to say that the worship of Srila Prabhupada is really some kind of ignorant "tama guna" ghost worship of a "post mortem" departed person, like the people who worship ghosts. Meanwhile, while they have blocked the door to the worship of Srila Prabhupada, they have opened to door, certainly as a collateral result, to the worship of deviants and even orchestrators of murder. 

So they are blocking the door of worship the bona fide acharya and thereby they are directly or indirectly opening the door to worship of all sorts of unqualified persons, and deviants, as has occurred. Again, this is what happened in the Gaudiya Matha. Notice too, that they are vehement bullies in their process of stopping the worship of Srila Prabhupada, which is why Srila Prabhupada says that these Gaudiya Matha thinkers are "envious of their guru," they made false replacements for their guru and "they insisted on it."

Srila Prabhupada was also very angry when "Time Magazine" asked on the cover "Is God Dead"? He was furious. And since Krishna is also one of our parampara's acharyas, Rocana's team is thus lumping even Lord Krishna in as one of their "post samadhi diksha acharyas"? Why are we saying that God is (post mortem) dead! Ravindra Swarupa says, "If Srila Prabhupada is still living, write him a letter and see if he replies." Similarly, the communists in Bengal also ask the same question, "If there is a God, then write Him a letter and see if He replies"? 

So Srila Prabhupada says that the communists as well as these "Brahma Sampradaya Renegades" are really atheists. Moreover these renegades seem to take some kind of glee that God and Guru are apparently absent. "Yes, the bona fide acharyas are all post mortem. Write them a letter? Of course, if you write a letter to us 'living' Brahma Sampradya Renegades or us communist atheists, we can reply." So they are sometimes killing Guru by poison, and when that does not work, by their poisonous rhetoric, "Guru and God are posthumous." Of course there are many other similar branches of renegades from the Brahma Sampradaya who try to say, "Krishna died five thousand years ago, He is dead and gone, He is an ordinary mortal," and so on. Same idea, "Krishna is posthumous."

Similarly, there is no other "tradition of religion" except for Rocana and his fellow GBC, Gaudiya Matha deviants and other associates like Kundali and Kailasha that refer to their guru as "the former, posthumous, post, dead and gone one." "He reasons ill who thinks vaishnavas die" says Srila Thakura Bhaktivinode. So Rocana is giving the same identical arguments and he even incorporates the concocted terms as the deviants, "Guru is (post mortem) dead." Again, this is the identical argument used by deviants from the Gaudiya Matha, the GBC and their clones like Kundali and Kailasha -- all along? So they are all renegades from the Brahma Sampradya since no other bona fide acharyas or their bona fide followers have EVER reffered to ANY previous acharyas as the "post (dead and gone) samadhi diksha gurus," because for starters Krishna is one of the "previous acharyas." So they are saying that "God is dead" since He is another "post samadhi guru" in their equation. And thus they are simply infuriating Srila Prabhupada thereby: "Krishna is another post (dead) samadhi guru."]

* RD: For many years, I have been unfairly stigmatized by members of ISKCON as being a Rtvik advocate, although I have been ostracized by the Rtvik inner circle since 1996.

[PADA: Rocana has never been "ostracized" by anyone, he has willingly chosen to associate with his "Guru is post mortem dead (and de facto God is dead)" crew. We have asked him to discuss his "point" with us for 20 years and he refuses to debate perhaps more than a few lines of oblique discussion with us, either privately or publicly, just like Narayana Maharaja, Kailasha and the GBC. They never reply to our points, they just repeat the GBC's "the guru is post mortem" slogans? Maybe he is frustrated since he first of all supported as his "living gurus" the GBC/ Kirtananda/ Jaggadish/ et al. empire in Canada for many years. 

Let us not forget that Rocana's guru lineage, that he still cites terminology from, is: the deviant guru project. And again, Kirtanananda also used to say that Prabhupada is the dead and gone person, so we need to worship a living person (like a deviant). So Rocana is still repeating Kirtanananda's ideology? He is still tethered to these people? Worse, since Rocana refuses to identify who his "living guru" is, despite our asking him for over the past ten years, he simply makes it sound like maybe -- the deviants are -- still his idea of a guru lineage? 

He has not targeted where our worship is supposed to go, he simply says, we cannot worship posthumous persons like Srila Prabhupada? By the way Rocana's idea that "Prabhupada's worship is ritvik heresy" simply means he is helping thousands of people walk away to the Gaudiya Matha and so on. He and the GBC are their best recruiters.]
* RD: Admittedly, I share many philosophical conclusions with the Rtvik pandits, particularly when it comes to giving Srila Prabhupada his proper prominence within the contemporary Vaisnava community, and inclusion as a rare Sampradaya Acarya within our glorious parampara. Interestingly, however, I have experienced a much more ferocious, reactionary feedback from fanatic members of the Rtvik camp than I have from followers of other groups with whom I have a philosophical conflict.

[PADA: Wonderful, except that nowadays even most of the GBC say that they agree with us at PADA that: Srila Prabhupada must be given "prominence"? They have even written papers about how Srila Prabhupada must be made the "prominent acharya," not too far distant from Rocana's paper. The Devil is in the details. Yes, he is the prominent acharya, but -- your team still says that we need a living guru to actually worship today since Srila Prabhupada is gone and posthumous. 

So the GBC and Rocana are one, again. Since Rocana is simply a parrot for the GBC, why would we agree with his ideas? We say God and Guru are eternally living: and his team is saying the acharyas are dead, gone and "post mortem." They are including even Krishna since He too is also a "post" acharya in our lineage according to their idea? Thus, as long as Rocana and his fellow associates such as the GBC, Sridhara, Narayan Maharajas et al. refer to our succession of gurus, which includes God mind you, as "post" -- dead and gone, they will not find much support in any bona fide circles? 

They have never proven that Krishna and His Great Devotees are "post" mortem and thus dead, for starters? They have not shown where their concocted "dead God and dead Guru" terminology is used by any bona fide acharyas, or by Krishna? Krishna says the opposite, "Acharyam Mam Vijnaniyam," "one should consider the acharya as My very self." And they say fine, Krishna is "post" -- mortem? Thus we would say that their idea that guru is dead is the same as saying God is dead, and this is confirmed by Krishna Himself as in the above citation.]

* RD: ISKCON and the Rtviks are opposite sides of the same coin, and the tell tale traits of religiosity are manifest in the die-hard members of both opposing groups.

[PADA: No it is that your post mortem guru idea and the GBC's idea are on the same side of the coin, and you both use the same terminology? You say that we need to make some replacements for worship of the post and dead acharya, which is like the Medieval Papal system? You are the ones who are advocates of some mundane religious ideas? We are not saying that we need to make some artificial "spokesman for God" "living gurus," just as the College Of Cardinals votes in the same at the Vatican? Your team are using the GBC's arguments, the Papal system arguments, and you are even using their terminology. We never said that guru is "post" and dead like you and the GBC and the founders of the original Papal system at the Vatican. 

Neither does any "religionist" refer to his guru or God as "the dead one" as your team is doing. Your "post samadhi diksha" complaint against the acharyas is the foundational idea of making the Papal system, and the GBC and Gaudiya Matha's appointed and voted in guru system, thus yours is the mundane religious system? So what is the difference between your ideas and the mayavadis who say that Krishna was an ordinary man and now He is "post." Or the smartas who say that the vaishnava acharyas are "post"? You are agreeing with these folks.]

* RD: The core message of the preeminent Sampradaya Acarya is for all followers of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement to exclusively surrender to the unalloyed parampara representative, and to not blindly obey the less than perfect institutional religionists posing as Acaryas.

[PADA: Good point, except now you are switching hats again and giving the essence of the ritvik idea: "We have to worship the bona fide acharya." So this means you are contradicting yourself, just as the GBC does when they say we have to emphasize Prabhupada. You are giving the GBC argument and sometimes, the ritvik argument? You are the blind leaders of the blind followers however since the GBC names "bogus people" as their living acharyas, while you have "no one" as your living acharya? So both of you are blind.]

* RD: The signs of religiosity can be seen in efforts at stifling freedom of expression, muzzling dissenting opinions, marginalizing the brahminical process, ostracizing those not willing to follow lockstep with the elite, and demonizing anyone openly critical of the managers and their latest version of "truth."

[PADA: Exactly, anyone who does not agree with your ideas that "God and Guru are post samadhi dead guys" is treated horrendously. Your team's idea of "post samadhi" has also resulted in thousands of innocent people being banned, beaten, and killed. You siddhanta policy has also resulted in thousands of children being starved, beaten, molested and killed. Agreed, this is all the "living result" of your "post samadhi diskha guru" regime from the 1930s and 1970s. But, why are you saying your ideas are having to do with "religiosity"? Do not lump in your "God and Guru are post mortem and dead" idea with any bona fide religion since no religion on earth preaches that their Guru is -- post, dead and in sum post mortem as your team is doing?]

* RD: A technique commonly shared by ISKCON and the Rtviks is an overemphasis on the absolute necessity for newcomers to discover their diksa guru connection to the Sampradaya, and benefit from the subsequent removal of accumulated vi-karmic reaction.

[PADA: This is "the technique" has been used by all the acharyas for thousands of years i.e.: they preach that one has to be connected to the bona fide acharya -- so that he can get "divyam jnanam which destroys sins" (diksha). This is indeed one of the most prominent teachings of Lord Krishna found in the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna tell Arjuna to surrender to Him so that Arjuna will be saved from -- the vikarmic reactions? Thus, according to Rocana, Krishna is a mundane religionist since He wants to right away explain the benefit of absorbing the sins and "vi-karmic" reactions, by connection to the parampara guru? 

Sorry, Krishna is not "overemphasizing" anything. Krishna is merely explaining the plain fact of spiritual life, that vikarmic reactions have to be nullified for spiritual progress. "Surrender to Me and I will save you from all reactions," this is practically the whole sum and substance theme of Krishna's teachings in the Gita? And yet Rocana implies that Krishna's teachings is some sort of mundane religiosity program? 

Worse, Rocana's idea of "blocking Srila Prabhupada's mercy" has lead to people "taking shelter" of various fools, and deviants as their means of "getting saved from sins," but this has not worked as we see? 

Rocana's idea is exactly like the Catholic Church, the figurehead will be paid a tithe and this removes the sins, not the worship of Jesus directly. No, this is bogus and it is not going to work. Of course Rocana also attacks the worship of Jesus as well as we shall see, despite that Srila Prabhupada says "me and Jesus are brothers."

In sum, Krishna's whole point in the Bhagavad Gita about absorbing the sins is not "over emphasis"? This is merely simple common sense: "In order to get cured from the disease, we will have to remove your tumor sir"? This is practical sense? Of course, we should want to get "removal of vikarmic reactions," otherwise how is progress going to occur if we keep the deadly tumor intact? Rocana's plan is to forget the deadly tumor, but Krishna is not such a fool as Rocana? So Krishna carefully explains this point to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita. This is technically called "guru asraya." 

Rocana even started his paper by saying we all have to recognize the Sampradya Acharya, and that means, "he who destroys the accumulated vi-karmic reaction." That is part of his title, diksha guru? Now he says, why should we emphasize the capability of the acharya who is the person who gives this "divyam jnanam -- which destroys sins." 

We should not discuss or "over emphasize" his potency? Why are they forbidding us to discuss the potency of the acharya? Why should not people know that the acharyas can give "spiritual knowledge which destroys (vikarmic) sins"? Rather we should be proud that our guru has this potency? He says we have to minimize the preaching of the glories of the acharyas? Instead they want to emphasize that the acharyas, including Krishna, are all dead, gone, post mortem, and we do not.]

* RD: This emphasis ignores the many sastric declarations about the amazing purification that comes about by coming in contact with the preeminent Sampradaya Acarya.

[PADA: Sastra says: that by coming in contact with the Sampradaya Acharya one obtains divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha). That is part of the effect, one is purified of sins? Rocana says that this purification of sins is not "destroying vikarma." So what is he talking about? He does not even know what these Vedic terms mean? He has never studied the Bhagavad Gita? 

And besides, Srila Prabhupada says that people who simply get his books are getting -- divyam jnanam (which destroys sins). So Rocana is contradicting himself, he says we should NOT emphasize the qualities of the acharyas, that they can purify our vikarmic reactions, and then he says, we must? The problem with his type of folks is that their ideas are full of these contradictions? Again, one woman wrote to tell me, "Rocana's paper is so confusing, I cannot figure out anything he says." I wrote back and told her, "The mayavadi siddhanta is always full of contradictions."]

* RD: From his divine association flows all the knowledge required in order to properly chant the sacred mantras, beginning with the Holy Names. In addition to the Hare Krsna mahamantra, the newcomer receives from the Sampradaya Acarya detailed instruction on how to worship the Deities, Tulasi, follow Ekadasi, and so. There is no pre-requisite stated in sastra that all the purification available via engagement in devotional service first requires being initiated by the diksa guru. The real requirement is connection to the Sampradaya Acarya.

[PADA: The above is all word jugglery? The real process is that the newcomer gets instructions from the acharya (di), and by dint of following he gets purified (ksha), while "formal initiation" is not required at all, nor did we say it was? Rather, just by following -- he is connected and in that sense he is initiated. Srila Prabhupada gave "official initiation ceremonies" to many thousands of people who -- subsequently fell by the wayside. While many others who had no "formal initiation," they have continued. So the "real process" is that anyone who accepts the teachings of the acharya is de facto initiated, as we have seen. You have not read the PADA paper "Our Living Guru." a document which we printed some years ago, we said there is no need for a formal initiation. 

You are making up a straw man argument here. Nor do we find that Arjuna had a formal diksha guru ceremony from Krishna, Arjuna accepted the instructions, that is the essence. Rocana thinks the instructions of the guru are useless unless one has some living bags of stools body to worship? This is called vapuh vada.]
* RD: The Rtvik pandits have assigned such exalted spiritual qualifications to the bona fide diksa guru that only a divine personality with genuine Sampradaya Acarya status comes close.

[PADA: "Comes close" to what? Rocana is intentionally using confusing the terms used by the acharyas. Srila Prabhupada does not say, "This pure uttama devotee -- never came close -- to that pure uttama devotee"? Where does he apply these ideas to the pure devotees? Why is Rocana saying that there is some type of "holier than thou" pecking order amongst pure devotees? So that means you have a material idea of pure devotees?

Srila Prabhupada: "In the United States, the predominating personality is the President. However, when the next election comes, the President will have so many rivals, but in the spiritual sky the Supreme Lord has no rival. THOSE WHO WANT TO BECOME RIVALS ARE PLACED IN THIS MATERIAL WORLD, UNDER THE CONDITIONS OF MATERIAL NATURE. In the spiritual sky there is no rivalry, and all the inhabitants therein are liberated souls."

The Gopis are also supposedly considered as the highest but they are thinking Krishna's flute is doing better service? Lord Chaitanya thought, He was doing no service at all? Where is this idea, this pure devotee's service "never came close" to that pure devotees service emphasized? This is baffling, "these" pure devotees "never came close" to "those" pure devotees? He are making an "us and them," a sort of concocted caste system, as part of pure devotional service? Srila Prabhupada says that only the uttma adhikary can become a guru, and there is no "status war" among that class of devotees? 

Srila Prabhupada says, "one cannot become guru unless he is an uttama pure devotee," and amongst uttama gurus he says, "guru is one." This argument is also what the Gaudiya Matha deviants propose, the diksha guru, the parampara guru, he might have less qualification than uttama, so they opened their Pandora's door for their bogus gurus?]

* RD: Consequently, they feel there is an absolute need for post-samadhi diksa from Srila Prabhupada. They ostensibly disqualify all other possible diksa guru candidates.

[PADA: No, we asked you to submit the name of your alleged potential diksha guru 20 years ago? And as we recall you went running away holding your hands in the air because you knew that we had defeated you, your guru has no name, no address, no books, he does not exist? We did not disagree, we merely challenged you to give us the name of your alleged proposed or possible diksha guru, and you de facto admitted, you would rather see people worship nobody than worship Prabhupada.]

* RD: Due to their fanatical mood, I strongly doubt whether any of the Rtvik-ites I know today would manifest the spiritual insight required to recognize and embrace the next Sampradaya Acarya, should Lord Caitanya see fit to send one in our lifetime.

[PADA: This is all speculation. This is also what the Gaudiya Matha argues, "If another pure devotee comes you will not be able to recognize him." And they were foremost in not recognizing Srila Prabhupada? And indeed most of them still call him "Swamiji," and not "Prabhupada." Yet so far the GBC and the Gaudiya Matha has only forwarded their 1936 and 1977 homosexual guru lineages? They keep saying that there is a living guru, but they have not shown us who he is, only some of the backers of the homosexual gurus, so this is all straw man argument?]

RD: From his divine association flows all the knowledge required in order to properly chant the sacred mantras, beginning with the Holy Names. In addition to the Hare Krsna mahamantra, the newcomer receives from the Sampradaya Acarya detailed instruction on how to worship the Deities, Tulasi, follow Ekadasi, and so. There is no pre-requisite stated in sastra that all the purification available via engagement in devotional service first requires being initiated by the diksa guru. The real requirement is connection to the Sampradaya Acarya.

[PADA: Agreed, the newcomer does not need a false initiation by a so-called concocted diksha guru, he only needs connection to the Sampradaya Acharya. Rocana has put on his ritvik hat here and this is good.]

History of the Rtvik Movement

[PADA: As we all know, Srila Prabhupada is the actual founder of the idea that he wanted some kind of Governing Body, and he ordered some of them to act as officiating priests or ritviks, but notice that Rocana forgets to even acknowledge that these words came from the Sampradya Acharya?]

RD: Since many readers may be unaware of the differences between the various Rtvik groups, I will attempt to present an overview of their common beliefs and a brief history of the Rtvik movement, as I understand it. The Rtvik's guru-tattva philosophy is based upon the conviction that Srila Prabhupada wished that a sincere follower of his be free to take post-samadhi diksa via his proxy representative, the "priest", or "Rtvik."

[PADA: That is what Srila Prabhupada said hundreds if not thousand of times. After I depart there will be proxies, a Governing Body. That is a proxy system, and he would remain as the Sampradaya and diksha guru. Where was Rocana when Srila Prabhupada said this, thousands of times, that after I depart the society will be managed by proxies and not another Gaudiya Matha false diksha guru process? He also said that his books would be giving the divyam jnanam, the essence of diksha, and this could go on indefinitely?]

RD: Such initiations would be conducted in basically the same manner that was in place prior to Srila Prabhupada's entering into samadhi.

[PADA: Right, that is also what he said about a thousand times, after I depart DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. Of course the GBC, their Gaudiya Matha advisors and Rocana changed the whole thing.]

RD: Proponents of the Rtvik system hold the July 9th, 1977 letter, wherein Srila Prabhupada appointed eleven regional GBC's to act as his Rtvik representatives, to be absolute proof that this system was to continue "henceforward" after his departure.

[PADA: This is totally bogus, there are thousands of statements where he said that there was just going to be a GBC after his departure, a proxy system. He merely confirmed that in one letter towards the end. He also said that he had made ritviks in a number of other 1977 conversations at that time. So he was making a GBC system and a layer of that would be a ritvik system. Of course, even if there is only "one" letter (and Rocana admits there is a letter making ritviks) that is still "absolute proof" since why would "the number of letters" have anything to do with the validity? Rocana forgets also that there were already "ritviks" chanting on the beads covering the whole society starting in the early 1970s, and this was still going on at that time, and Prabhupada said hundreds of times, do not change anything.]

RD: In addition to this letter, they have their own interpretation of an earlier conversation (May 28, 1977), and the personal testimony of one witness, Gauridasa Pandit. This hypothesis originated from the person of Yasoda nandana dasa, who is one of the founding members of a loosely organized underground movement started in the late 1970's, aiming protest at the GBC/Zonal Acaryas.

[PADA: This is again totally false. Many of us understood that Prabhupada had only made a GBC and proxy system and he had not appointed any diksha gurus even before we later on found: the hidden letters (discovered in 1984), the hidden tapes (1985), the hidden will (1985), the hidden conversations (1990), the poison tape (1997) and so on and so forth? I was arguing against the GBC for many years before meeting Yasodanandana in the mid 1980s. It was understood by all sincere followers of Srila Prabhupada for example that Jayatirtha's sex and drugs escapades were not part of the bona fide parampara. 

Thus, we said that they are proxies, and the GBC are thinking these deviants are diksha gurus. We said that in 1978 way before anyone read "Yasodanandana's" papers or anyone else's? Yasodananda prabhu has of course added considerable documentation to prove this was Prabhupada's order, indeed he convinced even many of Rocana's contemporaries and others to jettison their support of the GBC gurus with his documents. So "the aim" of this underground movement was to uncover more of the actual letters, tapes, conversations and eyewitness testimony, in part to protest but mainly to find out what was really ordered and to convince others of these points, as has occurred?]

RD: Most of the intellectuals who formed the inner circle of this cell were unceremoniously excommunicated from ISKCON for publicly voicing their subversive ideas. To the best of my knowledge, the membership included Pradyumna dasa, Jadurani devi dasi, Kailasa candra dasa, and Yasoda nandanana dasa. This school of radical thought wrote, printed and circulated many confrontational tracts in the early days, with limited results. Initially, they did not try to promote the return of the Rtvik process, but rather focused on the advanced spiritual qualifications required to become a bona fide diksa guru.

[PADA: This is because most of the letters, all of the audio tapes, the will, and other important documents were being hidden and suppressed by the GBC. The "focus" was adjusted as these new documents and materials surfaced, including that Prabhupada was poisoned to suppress the ritvik instruction. Rocana seems to be unaware that most of these documents were hidden and forbidden, and that when me and Sulochana began to distribute "the letters" in 1984-5, we got death threats from Ramesvara and others.]
RD: These were qualities the Zonal Acaryas sadly lacked. Naturally, the Zonals' policy of exaggerated glorification and their self-anointed honorific titles incited the disgust and outrage of this early protest group. The sastric definitions for diksa set forth by this group were so unattainable by Kali yuga Westerners that Srila Prabhupada was the only ISKCON related personality who unquestionably qualified. It was this train of thought that naturally evolved into the post-samadhi diksa concept.

[PADA: Well yes, the guru has to be qualified? That means he is not a deviant. Of course if someone says that their guru is the "posthumous" dead person, like the GBC gurus and Rocana say, they are not even bona fide neophytes since no one calls their guru "the dead one." And yes, since the GBC gurus and their Gaudiya Matha advisors supported the worship of homosexual pedophiles as their gurus, saying Prabhupada is the post mortem dead guy, we have had the perfect argument: that the GBC system of proxies should be re-established so as to eliminate the enormous guru scandals and offer instead the correct worship. Most people agree with us, even many GBC have told us, behind the scenes, that they agree with our proposal to emphasize Srila Prabhupada as the guru and not the neophyte GBCs.]

RD: The group's need for supporting documentable evidence required a re-interpretation of the same July 9th letter the Zonals had previously highlighted as their authorization to take unfettered, exclusive regional power.

[PADA: The July 9th letter was not offered to the mass of devotees, nor was the GBC's other alleged core evidence, the May 28th tape? Nor was it discussed? Nor would the GBC allowing us to discuss it?]

RD: After some time, the band of protesters dissolved their alliance. Yasoda nandana dasa resurfaced in Toronto, writing and preaching that the Rtvik solution was what Srila Prabhupada "ordered."

[PADA: This is because no one else, especially Rocana, has shown us "what else" he might have ordered?]

RD: Nityananda dasa from Louisiana was convinced, and invited Yasoda nandana and others to move into his rural community, which became the nucleus of the Rtvik movement. They soon published a periodical focused on promoting Rtvik-tattva, called "Vedic Village Review". Nityananda's businesses, which underwrote the expenses of the magazine and community, eventually ran into serious problems that forced the community to disband. Yasoda nandana and family relocated to California, where he still resides. Since that time, Yasoda nandana's Rtvik position has been adopted by many others in the movement. One of those was the renowned global traveler and preacher, British-born Kamsa hanta dasa. 

He embraced the cause with passionate zeal and a missionary spirit. Among Kamsa hanta's noteworthy inter-continental converts were Krsna Kanta Desai (England), Jitarati dasa (Hong Kong), Adridarana dasa (India), and Nandi kesvara dasa (Canada). In small conferences, they attempted to better organize and develop a consensus as to the finer philosophical points of the Rtvik-tattva.

Krsna Kanta and his associates then produced a manifesto entitled the "Final Order". Interestingly, the creation of this treatise was done without soliciting input from the Rtvik founder, Sriman Yasoda nandana dasa, or any of his West Coast Rtvik group. When the "Final Order" debuted, Yasoda nandana dasa and company disagreed with many key elements of the theory.

[PADA: No, we all agree on the key elements, we have to worship the bona fide acharya Srila Prabhupada? The main disagreement between the IRM and us was over -- the poison issue?]

RD: Krsna Kanta and his newly formed ISKCON Reform Movement (IRM) tried to distance themselves from the West Coast Rtviks due to the endless stream of faultfinding rhetoric the group aimed squarely at ISKCON. Krsna Kanta and company held out hope that they could convince the GBC, so long as Yasoda nandana's group was excluded. As history reveals, their efforts were thwarted by the GBC. From that time on, an increasingly contentious relationship has developed between the two main Rtvik camps.

[PADA: Well this is all irrelevant verbiage? If Srila Prabhupada did not order a GBC, then what did he order?]

RD: While Yasoda nandana dasa, Puranjana dasa and other Rtvik advocates continued to attack ISKCON, Krsna Kanta advocated a forgive-and-forget policy towards past transgressions of the GBC. This naive strategy failed and the GBC, feeling threatened by the surge of support for this "back to the beginning" movement, responded in a proactive manner by producing a number of papers and GBC resolutions opposing the Rtvik philosophy. Unfortunately, they also employed demonizing efforts that further polarized the Vaisnava community, and brought the Gaudiya Matha closer as allies against a common enemy.

[PADA: Well then, PADA was right on this point, trying to capitulate with the GBC as the IRM attempted did not work.]

RD: Adridarana dasa, the long-time president of Calcutta Temple, and other well-established Indian ISKCON leaders were swayed by the "Final Order's" powerful arguments and rejuvenated the IRM. The IRM continues to do battle with the ISKCON leadership to this day, with some success. The original Rtvik exponents from North America, still headed up by Yasoda nandana dasa, have continued to be vocally critical of the IRM, ISKCON and BV Narayana Swami. They recently began their own organization, the Hare Krishna Society.

[PADA: At the same time some of the IRM folks have said that the poison issue is probably correct, so there is some conciliation going on that Rocana is unaware of.]
RD: While I have attempted to present an accurate, abbreviated historical timeline of the evolving Rtvik movement, I have not carefully researched this history. I encourage readers to confirm the dates and details for themselves by contacting the personalities mentioned above.

[PADA: To sum, it is an insult to constantly imply, as Rocana's team does every day, that Srila Prabhupada is now the post mortem, i.e. dead, gone and de facto irrelevant guru? Worse, Rocana says that Srila Prabhupada's idea of worship of the bona fide acharyas makes him a sort of detestable "ritvik pundit." Rocana also says Srila Prabhupada is a deviant from the Vedas, since Srila Prabhupada says we must worship the bona fide acharyas whereas Rocana says: "this is not found in the tradition." Rocana also complains that Srila Prabhupada's idea to make a Governing Body (and have some of them acting as priests) is exactly what the Christian Church does, so Rocana complains that Prabhupada is a mundane relgionist. Rocana is directly attacking Srila Prabhupada as the real deviant. Thanks pd]