Sunday, March 31, 2013

New Radha Krishna art by Puranjana das

Tourism going down in India

Bombay v Bangalore court case update

Mediation between ISKCON Bangalore & ISKCON Mumbai

Posted March 31, 2013

Please find attached a set of documents to update the devotee community re. on the progress of the ongoing mediation. These documents consist of correspondence between between Madhu Pandit Prabhu , the GBC Bureau and the ISKCON GBC :
Justice Raveendran (the retired Supreme court justice who was appointed by the Supreme Court to oversee the present management at HK Hill, by the ISKCON Society of Karnataka a year ago) took an initiative to bring about an out of court settlement between two parties thru several mediation sittings.
The Bangalore group offered to bring the property in dispute in the court, which is the Hare Krishna Hill temple under the ownership of ISKCON registered in Mumbai if Bureau assured before the Supreme Court that the rtvik system of initiation practiced now will be the only system to continue and the preaching that Srila Prabhupada is guru of everyone in this temple will also continue. Then we went further to offer all the group properties, worth about 500 million dollars, about 20 temples in India to ISKCON registered in Mumbai with same condition on initiation.
To avoid court battles, they even offered that Madhu Pandit Dasa, Chanchalapathi Dasa and Jai Chaitanya Dasa will be out of management of the Hare Krishna Hill temple, which is disputed before the court. The Bureau had its meeting with GBC on March 9, 2013 and rejected the condition on initiation and rejected the settlement offer. The Bureau's foul cries that rtvik is just an excuse for Sri Madhu Pandit Dasa's plan to grab properties now stands exposed as just mud slinging tactic. If they really believed this to be the case, why don't they take the offer that would have included Madhu Pandit's offer?
The attached documents should be read in the following time sequence:
  1. Letter dated Jan 25th, 2013 to Justice Raveendran
  2. Final Offer of Madhu Pandit Das to GBC and Bureau March 5th, 2013
  3. Final Synopsis offered to GBC by MPD on March 5th, 2013
  4. GBC cover letter March 9th, 2013
  5. GBC statement Final March 9th,2013
  6. Reply to GBC and Bureau March 14th, 2013
  7. Final letter to Justice Raveendran March 22nd, 2013
PADA: GBC has spent to date fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000) suing Bangalore, and now its going back to Supreme court where they will spend more millions. Meanwhile, there are cases of holes in the roof over the deities, rats on the altars at night, what to speak of manpower shortages for maintenance and pooja etc., and many other problems here in the N Ameican temples because "there is no money to fix it." That is because all the money is going to make mansions for their lawyers. Why is the Danavir program wasting all their money on multi-million dollar lawsuits and neglecting the deity? Since when did we have a policy of mansions for lawyers and ghettos for the deity? And why is Raya supporting this process? Then he says, get some books out, haha, so we can send more money to the court case process? Sorry, I just do not get it. The money is supposed to go for temples and books, not to buy new Mercedes for lawyers? ys pd

Poison conversation pt.2

Mayesa Dasa: I contend that the tapes were never sent to the FBI and that this has been made up. I understand having read everyhting and listened to all tapes, etc why a neophyte would fall hook line and sinker-and also when you speak with them you will find how "everything must go into the pot": murder, murders, child molestation, Ritvik theory ... I can even understand how a more advanced person might at least "hear the evidence,etc" and then come to conclusion. But when you examine philosophically two things stand out- Even SP were murdered what would that change? And how you can point your finger -"That person did" -if you don't know for certain-what a terrible offense. I was fortunate to be in a position to know and watch how these rumors grew....These are the weeds.

PADA: Contend what you like, Srila Prabhupada said he was being poisoned. Why would you say his direct statements are a hoax? Everyone in the room verified he said he is being poisoned. Was everyone in the room in on the hoax? The whispers on the tape are verified by three separate audio forensic labs. Is this part of the hoax plot? The hair sample was verified by forensics. More hoaxsters? Several kavirajas contend poison. They were in on the hoax too? Naveen's father is one of the Kaviraja's, are all these people making all this up out of nothing, this is some giant conspiracy? Isa and others have done a lot of work putting the tape evidence together and no one has made a counter site to dis-prove any this at all with counter forensics. Puripada is also not an expert on anything. Many thousands of people accept these things as evidence. I also did not say that knowing Jesus was crucified would change anything, that is not the point. You cannot simply say this is all a hoax, you have to prove that. And Puripada has not done so, at all. ys pd

Mayesa Dasa Haridasa-it is good to confront them because others are hearing and not hearing counter.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari

PADA Mayesva, can you just stick to the statements of Prabhupada, those who confirmed what he said in the room, the whispers, the hair sample analysis, the two kavirajas who thought he was being poisoned and so on? Puripada is not an expert on anything. ys pd

Palaka Dasa And where's that famous quote about Ram and Ravana or the response about choosing which death?

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari Anyone who takes the side of PADA on any issue is fool number one!

PADA Yes, Srila Prabhupada was saying he wanted to leave his room, and they were not allowing him to go. He wanted to go out on a bullock cart. Tamal said this bullock cart idea is suicidal. And Srila Prabhupada said, if he stays in the room then Ravana will kill me. Yes, who was that Ravana party? Puripada does not defeat any of the evidence. Nor does he even attempt to go through it.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari His Grace Palaka Dasa contacted me about 5 times to arrange for me to print one of the latest articles of His Grace Rupanuga Dasa on He told me that if the devotee mobster, Rocana from has any problem with it that he would have Rupanuga Dasa defend me and stand up for me. When Rocana Dasa threatened me for pirating his content, and Rupanuga left me hanging, Palaka Dasa became a spineless jellyfish and cowardly told me that he didn't want to be in the middle of things.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari Does a single person on this planet think that Tim Lee is not a complete madman? Here is an article about offensive devotees who get too caught up in conspiracy theories, due to their conditioning:

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari PADA - Ritvik madman, Isa Dasa - Narayana Maharaja sahajiya madman, Rocana Dasa criticism personified devotee mobster madman: These are the demons behind the whole Prabhupada poison hoax.

PADA Raya, We now have about 120 Prabhupadanuga centers world wide, over 20 in Russia, many in India, 4 in Ukraine, several around Singapore, also Taiwan, China, Croatia, 4 home programs in Montreal, 2 in Seattle, and a new one in Vancouver, a new temple here in San Francisco, etc. and our blog gets hits from all over the world from everywhere, most of these people believe us: -- These gurus were not appointed, the books are being changed without authority, that Srila Prabhupada was complaining he was being poisoned, and so on and so forth. There are literally thousands of people on board with all these issues. Its no longer "one mad person." I am also being interviewed for TV, sorry our views are spreading all over the place. As for Narayana Maharaja, Tamal was the person who brought him into ISKCON. ys pd

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari @ PADA - The ISKCON Reform Movement is one thing. You are not the ISKCON Reform Movement! You are a complete demon! Listing the centers that the ISKCON Reform Movement has is not proof that you are not a complete demon. Even if you make it on some documentary, you will still be a complete demon!

PADA Raya, Well good luck, unless you can produce a good explanation for the several poison complaints from Srila Prabhupada, why everyone in his room confirms he says he is being poisoned, counters to the concrete forensic evidences, including the whispers and the hair sample analysis, etc. Your quoting Puripada has no value, he is not an expert on anything, he used to be Ronald Mc Donald for goodness sakes, he has no forensic capacity and never did. 

We are independent of the IRM? We have our own centers, they have theirs. Of course we are similar, but we have way more centers than they do.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari IRM, Prabhupadanugas, all idiots.

PADA OK, well that is fine, but we are growing and the GBC guru program is falling apart, they have maybe ten people left at the Berkeley ISKCON temple, we have a packed place at our temple. We are gaining and they are losing, do the math.

In any case you have avoided the issue, Puripada is not a forensic expert or any kind of expert, we are citing experts, you are citing the former Ronald Mc Donald. Good luck with that.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari
His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami On Srila Prabhupada’s Disappearance
By His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami: Prabhupada’s servants dedicated the bette...

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi Centers and thousands of people basically resentful, spending their time accusing and lamenting, filling the internet with their mental dementia thinking of the bad done by others instead of thinking of Krishna. Because thousands of people are exposed to this nonsense does not mean that you are spreading Krishna consciousness knowing the inclination in Kali yuga for conflict. You are spreading a conflict based on suppositions. What is it spread here? No love, for sure. Love do not grow on resentment. 

And the person of Srila Prabhupada is completely undermined because if Krishna is saying that his devotee will never perish do you really think that HE would leave his pure devotee at the level of Srila Prabhupada being miserly poisoned by his envious disciples as you describe them? So where is the speciality the uniqueness of Srila Prabhupada? What faith are you building in this people? You are an offender of Srila Prabhupada with all your centers and thousands of people.

PADA OK Raya you just said that the Narayana Maharaja people are all sahajiya nut cases, and Tamal is the person who brought NM into ISKCON. And in 1993 the GBC was going to remove Tamal for his connection to the "rasika guru" NM? Why are you saying you are against the NM sahajiyas, and now you are citing the leader of the NM sahajya club? This makes no sense?

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari Does anything make sense to a madman?

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari
Poison Antidote – Part One
By His Holiness Danavir Goswami: Srila Prabhupada said his disciples sacrificed ...
See More

Mayesa Dasa What HDG Danavir has written is very worthwhile reading.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari

Poison Antidote – Part Two
By His Holiness Danavir Goswami: The poison proponents accuse Srila Prabhupada’s...

PADA Raya, you said you are against the NM sahajiyas, then you quoted the FOUNDER FATHER and leader of the NM sahajiya group, Tamal? Narayana Maharaja was Tamal's rasika guru from 1984 until 1993? Can you at least make sense, either you are for the NM rasika club or not? You said you are against it, then you cite the leader of it as your authority?

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari If these things are too difficult for you to understand, maybe you should just chant.

PADA Danavir does not touch any of the evidences, statements, quotes, forensics, nothing.
Well you are contradicting yourself, you said you are against the NM sahajiya club, then you cite them as your authority. You are making a contradiction, Srila Prabhupada says contraction is material.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari @ PADA The first principles to follow are chanting a minimum of sixteen rounds daily on beads and following four regulative principles. No eating of meat, fish, or eggs. No illicit sex. No gambling. No intoxicating substance abuse. All devotees must rise by 4 a.m. These are the basics. Now, Tim Lee, when you can do these things, then we can see about getting you initiated into the sampradaya.

PADA I think Danavir was one of the people who said the Tamal rasika club was bogus?
Now you are all promoting Tamal and the NM rasika club? Has Danavir any sense of what he was saying a few days ago?

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi Do you really think that Srila Prabhupada was abandoned by Krishna, if it was in Krishna plan for him to stay and continue his preaching activity? Do you understand of whom you are talking about : Lord Nityananda's chief commander! Talking this nonsense for decades your faith in Srila Prabhupada has dwindled and vanished. Who is following you are drugged by their ego without faith, without love. Face it.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari @ Tim Lee: So, maybe you can take initiation from His Holiness Danavir Goswami? Are you aspiring for him?

PADA Was Jesus abandoned by God. This is what the Satanists say? No, Danavir makes no sense, he is against the Tamal rasika club, then he cites Tamal as his authority? That means he has no line of authority.

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi Jesus used his yogi mystical power and survived the cross. Talk about KC do not pull in other religion obscure history manipulated by some like you are doing to ours.

PADA OK, Srila Prabhupada said he was being poisoned by someone, he said that several times, I have faith that his statements are accurate, you do not. I have faith in the words of the pure devotee, he said, several times, I am being poisoned here. He said he heard people talking about poisoning him. He did hear them, they were whispering about it, we have it on tape.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari If you weren't a looser madman, you might be able to understand a little bit of things Srila Prabhupada has stated.

PADA I have faith he was aware of what he was talking about. Raya you are saying you are against the madman rasika club, and they are your authority, you do not even understand what you said?  You are fighting your own shadow here, you are for the people you are against?

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari I have heard the tapes and I thought they said "PADA is an offensive demon meant to destroy the world."

PADA Well you said that Tamal is your authority, and he is the leader of the madman sahajiya club, so you have argued with -- yourself? Let me know when you want to discuss with others, you are fighting your own statements.

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari @ PADA: If you would like to make some advancement, put some books in a bag and go out and distribute them.

PADA Tamal is the leader of the Madman sahajiyas club, therefore, he is my authority?

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi You want to believe it to make people see Srila Prabhupada a helpless sick person lying in a bed this you are proposing to the mass of people. While he had more yogi powers than the Jesus you just mentioned and the Sudarsana cakra of the Lord would not have waited any time to burn rascals to ashes. Where is your faith Tim Lee?

PADA I do not beleive anything except what he said, and what the whispers said and so on,
I believe him and what he said, you do not. 

Raya Nitai Dasa Vanacari The whispers said you are an idiot.

PADA He also said just like they killed Jesus they may kill me also.

Mayesa Dasa The murder of the disciplic succession is the murder of the whole line-by teaching that the disciplic succession has come to an end on SP's order-what have you done? You have committed an offense against a pure devotee by proclaiming that he was so puffed up he made himself "the last"...

PADA Bhavananda: Prabhupada was complaining of mental distress this morning also. 
Bhakticaru: Srila Prabhupada. 
SP: Hmm? 
Bhakticaru (Bengali): Ota ki byapaar hoyechelo? mental distress? ....

Somone gave him poison here, that is what everyone in the room agreed Srila Prabhupada was saying. And the kaviraja says, some demon (rakshasa) gave him poison here. So this was all on the tape, and when its enhanced, so are the whispers etc. Bhakti caru then left the room and was crying outside, saying that Prabhupada was saying he was being poisoned by someone, he told that to Abhinanda dasa. He was there.

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi Your way of underestimating Srila Prabhupada and Lord Nityananda is very subtle, very dangerous, do not touch who have faith, you can influence only rascals desiring to be cheated. Really a good example for describing what a devotee should not be.

PADA You have no faith in what he says, that is your business, I do have faith. The whispers, the hair sample, they merely confirmed what he said. So he said something, and it has been confirmed, so our faith is not just faith, we can back it with professional forensics.

A comprehensive counterpoint to all the statements of Srila Prabhupada, the confirmation statements of ALL the people in the room, the whispers, the hair sample, the statements of the kavirajas etc, has never been done. I have faith in substance,

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi PADA you did not get even one "like" until now move to other places to get your proselytes. Your vision, because of your absence of faith. is so short that you do not even take into consideration that Srila Prabhupada is still relating also in dream to others.

PADA My main website gets 1.5 million hits a month. My blog gets 1,000 hits a day or more from all over the world, Russia, China, Australia, South Africa and so on, my video site has had nearly quarter of a million hits, and so on, We are getting people to worship HDG. We had 1,000 Prabhupada Vyasa pooja offerings just from just Bangalore alone, we have way more people who have faith in Prabhupada than the Raya program ever will have. ys pd

Analysis of the tape

ISKCON 10 Srila Prabhupada poison complaint pt 2
Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi wow you have the numbers for a political party...I would even see Madhu Pandit of Bangalore the Minister of Finance! So many can qualify as your followers among those deluded by Sai Baba.

PADA You said that the people who offer pooja to Srila Prabhupada are important, and we had 1,000 such offerings in Bangalore, now you are saying the Prabhupada devotees are politicians and deluded Sai Babas. Can you people get your story together, before you post things? 

With all due respect Mahavalata, you are saying what Raya says, a contradiction, he says the Tamal rasika Narayana club is madness and bogus, then the very next moment he -- promotes the leader of the very same NM rasika madness club? You people are arguing with -- your own shadows.

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi mmmm...I see you take your numbers seriously...ahahahah

PADA some of our people are having dreams of Prabhupada, you said these people who are worshiping him are politicians. The number does not matter, you are attacking the worship of HDG. You said the people who worship HDG are Sai Baba politicians, so that is all we wanted to know.

MadhavaLata Devi Dasi ooohhhh even taking what you are saying seriously...

PADA No I am pointing out what you are saying, you said I am stopping people from worship and having dreams of HDG, I said we have 1,000 doing that, you said who cares if people worship HDG its all politics? So this is YOUR contradiction, you want people to worship HDG, except if they do, they are deluded politicians? This has nothing to do with me, this is what you said.
I am glad you admit that you think worship of Srila Prabhupada is all deluded Sai Baba politics, at least you are honest. Thats progress, I like to know where people really stand.

Saturday, March 30, 2013

Ex-student speaks out on GBC gurus

Krishna K: First off if we're gonna get all sentimental about respect, you're actually supposed to capitalize the first letter pertaining to your Guru, i.e. He, Him, Maharaja, Gurudeva, etc. and if most people knew what we went through as children growing up in iskcon, and those who stood by in the beginning watched and protected the child molesters, women rapists, women beaters and child beaters and called all of us crazy and insane that no one would ever believe us but guess what, you can't deny thousands of screaming voices. 

And if you do then you're no better than your beloved (GBC) Guru. Yes I was there and yes very atrocious things happened to me and my friends. Why are these people continually praised simply because they've changed their behavior in public but I'm sure their private behavior still remains, I'm positive of it by simply seeing that pedophile Bhavananda given a high position within iskcon still. 

Open your eyes people you're being taken or all your money. Take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, He is the only first class man left in Kali Yuga, and when he left our organization went with it. Just like when Jesus Christ gave the gospel to man, the moment it was touched by man it was no longer pure. How could people change Prabhupada's books too. A conditioned should can't perfect on Krsna's words. What Prabhupada wrote was directly from Krsna. 

If one person can give one sastra quote that a conditioned soul is for to correct Krsna I'm sold. But guess what you won't find that so there's more proof for all of you that the books given to you are not qualified materials. Your Bhakti is diluted and your eyes have been blinded by the prestige these false gurus give neophytes. Oh, Hare Krishna

Conversation about the poison issue

NOY: I always knew the poison issue was a total lie, I was fortunate enough to be engaged in service at the Krishna Balaram Mandir before, during and after Srila Prabhapada passing away from this world. And I am a witness of how much dedicated were Bhakti Caru Swami and Tamal Krishna Maharaj in the service of Prabhupada . Bhakti Caru was administering the medicines to Srila Prabhupada right in his mouth since he was very weak due to illness , and he was doing that special service with such intense devotion and dedication. He is a very noble soul.

Mayesa Dasa My obeisances - Thank you. Your servant, Mayesa dasa

PADA: Does not change what Srila Prabhupada said, vahi bat ye hamko poison diye, to which everyone in the room agrees, Srila Prabhupada says he is being poisoned. Bhakti Caru was outside the room right after that crying, and he was asked why he was crying, and he said he is crying because Srila Prabhupada had said someone gave him poison. Also does not account for the fact it took me until 1997 to get the hindi tape, which was secreted out of the archives, why was the tape hidden?

**** But so what, Jesus was killed too. We cannot change that. Are you saying God is asleep because he does not help his devotees? God is in charge!

PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada said just as Jesus was killed, they may kill me also. That does not mean God is asleep? Yes, Krishna is in charge, that is how I got the tape in the first place. I prayed to get the tape for 7 years, "Krishna you must provide me with this tape," and 7 years later a devotee came up and said, here are the tapes you wanted (they were tapes from the archives). Krishna is wide awake here?

So Krishna wanted this to come out, and He got me the tape so I could. I had it translated by a Bengali newspaper editor, and hardly any changes were made later, he did an almost perfect translation. Then Hari Sauri sent us a hair sample, and then we had the tapes forensically tested for whispers by three audio labs and so on, Krishna wanted this to come out, and it has.

Three professional audio forensics labs all agreed to the whisper content, this is not my view, its the view of the experts on audio forensics. The FBI in Gainseville also listened to the whispers when Naveen Krishna presented them to the FBI, and they said, this would be a homicide case if it was in the USA.

Michael Blumert. We need to block this (Puranjan) person.

PADA: OK Michael, does not explain the statements of Srila Prabhupada, confirmed by everyone in the room, the whispers on the tape, the hair sample results and so on. And the statements of the kavirajas and so on and so forth. You have not given a practical explanation, that is what is needed.

**** We cannot change what happened, nothing can be done now, why does it matter?

PADA: Jesus was crucified, does it matter? Well it matters to his followers? OK, nothing can be done about it, that is not the issue?

Lokaguru Das Actually Isa das was the person who discovered all the sound files and was the person who initiated the probe into who poisoned or attempted to poison our Srila Prabhupada. Jaganatha das was a late comer who, according to Isa, only became involved later.

His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

**** We should emphasize that Srila Prabhupada is living in sound ....

PADA: As soon as we said Srila Prabhupada is living in sound, and we should not worship Jayatirtha, I was booted out by four "new gurus." They did not allow us to promote the idea that Srila Prabhupada never left? Where have you been with all due respect? 

**** Isa was the first to promote the poison tapes ...

PADA: No. All of the Alachua people got the tapes from me, I sent them to Naveen and he gave copies to others there. Naveen went over the translation of the Bengali editor I used and he made a few corrections, Isa does not know Bengali or Hindi, he used my transcripts.

Lokaguru Das why doesn't Tim give a detailed chronology of when he recieved the tapes and from whom providing exact dates

PADA: The person who gave me the tapes got them from the archives. The archives later gave us an original copy which we used at the forensics labs. The person who got them from the archives does not want his name given since he fears for his saftety and he is taking medications etc. Dear Michael, why are you discussing hate when we are discussing the words of the pure devotee?

***** You and Sulochana are crack pots .... 

PADA: Sulochana had the whole New Vrndanava raided by the police, hah hah, everyone thought he was looney until all his stories were proven by the FBI, Federal Marshalls, Tom Bordenkircher and so on. I am doing a TV special on this topic right now. They believe us, sorry.

Lokaguru Das No exact date - just a bluff!

PADA: 1997, that is when I got the tapes, and I took them to a Bengali editor and he translated and I was handing out copies in front of the LA temple, ask the people who were there! I went to Kinko's and had 250 copies of the "poison" tape made and I sent to Naveen and others, ask Naveen? Ask Rocana, Nityananada, Naveen and all the others where they got their tape from? 

Lokaguru Das No exact dates and times - Still... JUST A BLUFFl

PADA: OK, well ask Naveen, where did he get his copy from and when? As Rocana, ask Nityananda and the others who were involved? 1997, that is the exact date. That means from 1997-1997 this tape was hidden.

Lokaguru Das you're stickin to the BLUFF til the very end -

***** Rocana is a crack pot ....

PADA: I never said Rocana was my friend, I said he wanted to know about the poison issue from us? Why is 1997 a bluff?

***** We are closing the door on you ...

PADA: Never mind if the door closes, that is why I am going on public and on television etc. 

Lokaguru Das oh lets see 1997; can we be more vague please... oh . when did Isa get the tape in 1977; 20 years earlier.

PADA: If Isa had the tape, why did he not give one to Naveen, his neighbor? I had to send to Naveen and others in Alachua? Why did I have to go and get it translated? Why was there no other transcript? Why did Naveen have to correct the one I made, and he had not seen any other copy than mine? In 1997? Are you saying Isa knew about this and he was hiding the issue? OK, that means you are saying Isa was sitting on the tape and he was not making it public, that is possible. As soon as I came out some people suddenly said they knew about this all along, like Prithu Putra swami.

Anyway if you want to know why I am making public web sites, public videos, public TV shows (working on one now), ask Michael Blumert, he wants to cut me off all devotee conversations, fine, we have no avenue left except to -- go public. And we are. That is what Srila Prabhupada did, he could no speak in the Gaudiya Matha, so he told their history outside the institution in the public and he even mentions them in the Srimad Bhagavatam and CC. Sorry it had to end that way, but he just proved that is our best if not only avenue here. 

Devotee farm in Southern France

SGD: I just spoke with Haribolananda prabhu. He is in south France. He is planning a big devotee farm community there. He, his family, Kamsahanta prabhu and other devotees. Total about 30-40 devotees. JAI PRABHUPADA !!!  JAI PRABHUPADANUGAS !!!

The ISKCON Reform Website

Friday, March 29, 2013

Gaura Purnima 2013 Bangalore (Video link)

New Prabhupadanuga temple (Puducherry)

PADA: Well OK, we get it already, there are various people who do not like our Prabhupadanugas program, thats clear. What is happening -- however -- is that we are getting more and more folks on board, for example -- a new home program in Seattle, a new home program in Vancouver, several programs in Montreal, a nice temple program here in the San Francisco Bay Area, and lots of other areas of expansion in places like the Ukraine, Russia, India, Singapore and etc. 

In sum, we are ALWAYS gaining more and more numbers of adherents. And then what happens is, after we gain these few number of people here and there, we get those few folks to preach to others. And then -- those few folks in turn make a few more numbers and so on, so its always expanding. We even got some of the former Prabhavishnu folks on board. Whereas our critics, ok they are losing members. Either that or they never had any program to start with, like say -- Rocana dasa. So its simply a question of time and we will win, and we are winning, plain and simple. ys pd

Varaha worship in ancient Hawaii?

Varaha Avatar

Varaha is also called the Boar. Varaha is the third incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Varaha appeared in the Satya Yuga. The Lord appeared in order to defeat Hiranyaksha. Hiranyaksha was a demon who had prayed for Lord Brahma and was awarded with a boon that no beast nor man nor God could kill him. From the list of beasts the name of Boar was missing. This was a blessing in disguise. Hiranyaksha started to show his cruelty to the worlds. He pushed the world to the Pataal loka or the under of the sea. When Lord Brahma was asleep he stole he stole the Vedas, the Holy Scriptures and started performing cruel acts in the world. To get back the Vedas from the demon Lord Vishnu took the role of a Boar and there was a battle with each other for a period which lasted for about thousand years. Finally the battle was won by Lord Vishnu (Varaha). Varaha brought out the earth from under the ocean, using its two tusks and restored it to its place in the universe. The Lord then killed Hiranyaksha and got back the Vedas from the demons and handed over it to the safe custody of the Lord Brahma. In this avatar Lord Vishnu married Bhoomi Devi (Earth) in this avatar.

Jesus Ki Jaya by Haripada das

Jesus ki jaya, by Haripada dasa

Srila Prabhupada often told us that Jesus Christ was a saktyavesa avatara, a very special soul that God sent from the spirit world to do a mission on earth, preaching according to time, place, circumstances and climate. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura also glorifies him in his books. 

I've heard that in the Purana Bavisya comes a prophecy of the coming of Jesus and said to the son of God will come and be crucified by the Yavanas or meat eaters. A very interesting thing of the disciples of Jesus who had so much faith, love, devotion and gratitude to the many of them became martyrs sacrificed their lives for him. All faith and Christian hope is based on the second coming of Jesus. In this connection it is very interesting an appointment JOHN 16, 25. 

There is said that Jesus said that I have spoken to you in proverbs, but the time will come that you plainly know about the Father. If we look at all the great personalities who have come after Jesus, we will find that the only genuine person, authorized and transparent has taught us that God is Krishna and who has given us the spiritual world is Srila Prabhupada, 

Srila Prabhupada I sense, is that is the second coming of Jesus, what do you think of this? Has anyone other than Srila Prabhupada taught us that Krishna is God and that God was always talking about? It is very interesting that Srila Prabhupada said that IF I REALLY SAID WHO I AM you would not believe. 

History repeats itself and there is nothing new under the sun, they crucified Jesus and poisoned Srila Prabhupada (Srila Prabhupoada says in the book of conversations in volume 36 on page 367 that are poisoning ME), one might be the question that people act well, the answer is obvious, envy and the desire to please their personal interests and selfish. 

I sense that many of us did much service to Jesus and we are continuing that service to Jesus in the form of Srila Prabhupada, and Jesus had many enemies. And Srila Prabhupada also had many disciples who were enemies of Jesus and now continue as enemies of Jesus in the form of Srila Prabhupada. And people like me and others tried to continue our service to Srila Prabhupada so we had to go to Iskcon, by which we mean: that if Srila Prabhupada was poisoned -- that can be done to us. 

The question may arise now is: Where are all of those disciples of Jesus who sacrificed their lives for him? The answer to this question is that Srila Prabhupada said that this generation of devotees will not be very good but then better future devotees will come. What do you think of this?. Another point is that leaders  Iskcon of nearly 36 years consciously have been hiding the truth and living a lie, the result is that they and their people now are living full of fear, envy, bigotry and prejudice, while I personally think that it has no good purpose, still I have to give reverence to those bad people. I am filled with happiness and freedom, and I thank God or Krishna and Srila Prabhupada for allowing me to live the truth, the truth shall make you free.

Holi Festival Featured in News Stories

Prabhupadanugas Vancouver, Washington

New Prabhupadanuaga Center in Vancouver, Canada
Regular Rittvik Program!

Dear Prabhus,

Dandavats. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I would like to thank Damaghosa Prabhu in encouraging me to hold regular rittvik program here in Vancouver. At first I was hesitant; and I was thinking can I do it? Then he said I know you can do it … that is why I am telling you to do it. I remember on two instances Damaghosa Prabhu asked me: “When are you going to do your own program?” He said if you will not do it, then who will do it? Finally by his encouragement and Prabhupada’s mercy we were able to hold two programs successively. Thank you Damaghosa Prabhu for pushing me in carry out this important mission. I know it is an ambitious task especially for a person like me who is working full time 8.5 hours a day ... but with your support, I think we can do it

We have submitted last week our application for registration of our society, and in a few days, we will get result from BC government. I would like to run this program legitimately so that ISKCON Vancouver cannot do anything to us. I know for sure they are already monitoring our activities. In fact, during our first program, they phoned us and we just said…. can you call later….we are about to begin our kirtan.

We are just waiting for the approval and then we will go out on Harinam to distribute original books only and inserted to it is our flyer. I have attached the draft copy of the flyer for your comments, critics, recommendations, addition or deletion. Please send me your feedback. I think we will be attracting new people to join us as soon as this flyer is out. To me, that is the preferred scenario as supposed to undoing the belief of some of our devotee friends.

Your lowly servant,

Navadvipa Dasa


Hare Krsna Navadveep Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obesiances with all glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, to His Dream, to His Mission

I would like to congratulate you and your entire family for this auspicious endeavor. I am quite confident that Srila Prabhupada is very happy with your effort.
Sometimes we would also make plans to join you in your Sankirtan.


The Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra also says, “My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, my dear Lord Rāma, O energy of the Lord, Hare, kindly engage me in Your service.” Although one may be situated in a lowly position, he can execute devotional service under any circumstance, as stated,ahaituky apratihatā: “Devotional service cannot be checked by any material condition.” (Bhāg. 1.2.6) Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu also recommended this process:

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva
jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām
sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir
ye prāyaśo ’jita jito ’py asi tais tri-lokyām (Bhāg. 10.14.3)

One may remain situated in his own place or his own occupational duty and still lend his ear to receive the message of the Lord from realized souls. The Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is based on this principle, and we are opening centers all over the world to give everyone a chance to hear the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa in order to go back home, back to Godhead.


Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful....

Jai Radhe
Your most fallen servant


Hare Krsna Navadvipa prabhu et all
My obeisances to you and all your good family members
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Thanks for the letter prabhu and the results of your recent preaching attempts. Lord Krsna and Srila Prabhupada is guiding you, have no fears or doubts about it. Your former "friends" at iskcon cannot harm you at all if you stick to the principles Srila Prabhupada has given to us. They may bark some, but your transcendental caravan will sweetly and nicely pass on without them, leaving them back in the material world of kali yuga.

Nice flyer or is that a business card size?

You wont only get new people but some devotees will come out of iskcon there in Vancouver who are somewhat serious and have some brains left in their heads. Like I mentioned to you before, dont overly and publicly stress the whole ritvik thing at your meetings as this will most of the time end up in some kind of argument, mostly due to peoples lack of understanding siddhanta. Better to just do kirtan, class, let them hear and see Srila Prabhupada, give them nice prasadam and you will all be in bliss and feel very satisfied!!

If some of them have a brain for philosophy, and really want to understand guru tattva, give them our book Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta and that should convince them. It is easy to understand and follow.
Once the former blind followers of iskcon come regularly and associate with you all, they will become convinced that this is what they are really looking for-that higher taste which has eluded them for so long
in the halls and walls of iskcon.

keep it up---Hari bol

Damaghosa das


Dear Navadvipa Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I would like to congratulate you for the preaching program you have started with your good family. No doubt Srila Prabhupada and Lord Krishna will guide you in your endeavor and send you all the assistance and devotees required to make your sincere efforts a success. Just do as Srila Prabhupada did and concentrate on preaching without necessarily having to harp on the Rittvik issue and those who participate will see the difference.

My dandavats to you and Mother Vrajabhumi. Hare Krishna.

ys, Krishna Prema Das

Thursday, March 28, 2013

Srila Prabhupada speaks about his books

(Thanks to Gauranga Sundar prabhu for these quotes)


Srila Prabhupada talks about his books

I have given you everythingso read and speak from the books and so many new lights will come out. We have got so many books, so if we go on preaching from them for the next 1,000 years, there is enough stock. Just like we have spent one day discussing one sloka, so you introduce this system in all of the temples, and very quickly the devotees will make spiritual progress by getting knowledge.
(Letter to: Satsvarupa – Los Angeles 16 June, 1972)

If you can actually understand the verses and purports of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is then your spiritual understanding is complete, without any other literature.
(Letter to: Bhadravardhana, February 22, 1977)

if men in this age of Kali want to see the real light of life, they must take to these two books only[Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam], and their aim of life will be fulfilled.
(SB 1.3.43)

Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction.
(Letter to: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana – Los Angeles 25 December, 1973)

There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books — in fact, such reading may be detrimental to their advancement in Krishna Consciousness. All reading of outside books, except in certain authorized cases such as for example to read some philosopher like Plato to make an essay comparing his philosophy with Krishna’s philosophy — but otherwise all such outside reading should be stopped immediately. It is simply another botheration. If my students cannot even read my own books thoroughly, why they should read others? I have given you TLC, what need is there to read Caitanya Caritamrta translated by someone else. You are right to stop such reading.
(Letter to: Sri Govinda – Jaipur 20 January, 1972)

You say that you would read only one book if that was all that I had written, so you teach others to do like that. You have very good determination.
(Letter to: Sukadeva – New Delhi 14 November, 1973)

My knowledge is in the book… By study of scripture, you can develop these qualities. That is called scripture. That is authorized scripture. Just like you study some book, and you develop some quality after reading that book, similarly, when you actually have scripture, then you develop all these qualities. And guru, spiritual master, means who teaches you all these things. So you have to make your progress — sadhu-sastra-guru vakya. You have to corroborate whether guru, what guru is speaking, whether it is there in the scripture; what scripture is speaking, whether that is in the character of guru, or in the sadhu, saintly persons, or spiritual master.
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 20.119-121 – New York, November 24, 1966)

But in this life, if we develop Krsna consciousness by association of devotees… As Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. One’s aim of life should be to serve the acaryas. Acarya upasanam. So our acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, the sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha, sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha, the Six Gosvamins, and if we associate with them… this book, Nectar of Devotion, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, if you read regularly, try to understand, this means you are associating with Srila Rupa Gosvami directly. And if you act accordingly, then you are serving their lotus feet.
(The Nectar of Devotion – Vrndavana, October 20, 1972)

Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupada: Well, the questions… Answers are there in my books.
Paramahamsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: Do you direct us also through the heart? Besides the Paramatma?
Prabhupada: If your heart is pure. Everything depends on purity.
(Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course – May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupada: Well, the questions… Answers are there in my books.
Paramahamsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: Do you direct us also through the heart? Besides the Paramatma?
Prabhupada: If your heart is pure. Everything depends on purity.
(Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course – May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Prabhupada: The student must inquire from the spiritual master… We are publishing so many books, so many literatures, magazines. Why? Just to enlighten more and more. But if you don’t take advantage of this, then how can you make progress? ….
Indian lady: How does one contact the spiritual master? Through a book can you contact the spiritual master?
Prabhupada: No, you have to associate.
Syamasundara: “Can you associate through a book?” she asked.
Prabhupada: Yes, through books, and also personal. Because when you make a spiritual master you have got personal touch. Not that in air you make a spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete.  So as soon as you make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive.…  He has to do everything under the instruction of the spiritual master. That is his duty. Sisya. Sisya means who voluntarily accepts disciplinary measures from the spiritual master. He’s ruled by the spiritual master…
(His Divine Grace Srila Sac-cid-ananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s Appearance Day, Lecture – London, September 3, 1971)

Indian Man (2): …like your company very much in Toronto and we feel like talk you so much, but we don’t have so much time to talk with you. You have so much mercy, so we have not… know so much about Krsna from you.
Prabhupada: So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in the books. That’s all.
Indian Man (2): Personally, we think more greater.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading my books.
(Morning Walk — August 7, 1975, Toronto)
[this is very interesting here the indian man clearly states that he feels that it is more greater to associate and get mercy by the personal physical presence of SP but then SP clearly corrects him stating that when Prabhupada is absent physically you can fully associate and have all your questions answered in Prabhupada's books!]

Prajapati: In the Bhagavad-gita it is indicated by Sri Krsna that when we approach a bona fide spiritual master our relationship is twofold. We render service and then we also make inquiry.
Prabhupada: Yeah.
Prajapati: Now, you have answered all our inquiries so thoroughly in our books that to make inquiry at this point seems like…, you’ve already answered all the questions. So how may we… What is the proper relationship at that point to make inquiry?
Devotee (4): Read the books.
Prabhupada: Yes. Read the books, yes. Why I’m working so hard? Read the books. [break]
(Morning Walk – January 5, 1974, Los Angeles)

Lord Brahma heard the occult sound tapa, but he did not see the person who vibrated the sound. And still he accepted the instruction as beneficial for him, and therefore he engaged himself in meditation for one thousand celestial years. One celestial year is equal to 6 x 30 x 12 x 1000 of our years. His acceptance of the sound was due to his pure vision of the absolute nature of the Lord. And due to his correct vision, he made no distinction between the Lord and the Lord’s instruction. There is no difference between the Lord and sound vibration coming from Him, even though He is not personally present. The best way of understanding is to accept such divine instruction, and Brahma, the prime spiritual master of everyone, is the living example of this process of receiving transcendental knowledge. The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent. Therefore Srimad-Bhagavatam or Bhagavad-gita or any revealed scripture in the world is never to be accepted as an ordinary mundane sound without transcendental potency.
(SB 2.9.8)

one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.
(SB 3.31.48)

In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.…You may please me the most by reading my books and following the instructions therein and by becoming fully Krishna Conscious in this life time.
(Letter to: Bahurupa, Bombay, 22 November, 1974)

I have instructed everything in my books.
(Letter to: Dina Dayala, Mayapur, 25 February, 1976)

Interviewer: You are the translator of many books, from what I understand.
Prabhupada: Yes. So that translation, the book, will speak how I have translated.
Interviewer: Um hm. I was wondering…
Prabhupada: You read the books, Then you’ll understand. Instead of asking me, you better read the books. That is real understanding.
( Interview with Newsweek – July 14, 1976, New York)

In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop. Krishna Consciousness is not a hackneyed thing but it is something which is our natural and original consciousness. Presently our consciousness is clouded just like a mirror becomes covered with dust So the cleansing process is this chanting and hearing and doing some service and trying to please the Spiritual Master. By this process our consciousness becomes clear and we are able to understand everything.
(Letter to: Bahurupa  -  Bombay 22 November, 1974)

Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice — in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered.
(Letter to: Ranadhira  -  Los Angeles 24 January, 1970)

So utilize whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered.
(Letter to: Upendra – Nellore 7 January, 1976)

Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States when you die?
Prabhupada: I will never die.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.
(Press Conference – July 16, 1975, San Francisco)

Srimad-Bhagavatam is not a creation of the *mental speculators. The sound of Srimad-Bhagavatam is transcendental, and the resonance of Srimad-Bhagavatam is as good as that of the Vedas. Thus the topic of the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the science of both the Lord and the living entity. Regular reading or hearing of Srimad-Bhagavatam is also performance of bhakti-yoga, and one can attain the highest perfection simply by the association of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Both Sukadeva Gosvami and Maharaja Pariksit attained perfection through the medium of Srimad-Bhagavatam.
(SB 2.9.4)
[Would these statements still hold true if the transcendental eternal spiritually potent words of the Srimad-bhagavatam removed and replaced with the words of a conditioned soul and *mental speculator?]

The merciful Lord left behind Him the great teachings of the Bhagavad-gita so that one can take the instructions of the Lord even when He is not visible to material eyesight. Material senses cannot have any estimation of the Supreme Lord, but by His inconceivable power the Lord can incarnate Himself to the sense perception of the conditioned souls in a suitable manner through the agency of matter, which is also another form of the Lord’s manifested energy. Thus the Bhagavad-gita, or any authentic scriptural sound representation of the Lord, is also the incarnation of the Lord. There is no difference between the sound representation of the Lord and the Lord Himself. One can derive the same benefit from the Bhagavad-gita as Arjuna did in the personal presence of the Lord.
(SB 1.15.27)

One who can see Srimad-Bhagavatam can see also Lord Sri Krsna in person. They are identical.
(SB 1.3.43)

One can derive from the study of the Bhagavatam all benefits that are possible to be derived from the personal presence of the Lord. It carries with it all the transcendental blessings of Lord Sri Krsna that we can expect from His personal contact.
(SB 1.3.40)

hearing from devotees, the sound vibration coming from the realized person. Reading the book is the same thing . . . tattva-darsana — hearing from one who has seen the truth. Reading or hearing from the realized person there is no difference, but hearing the sound vibration from the realized soul is still more effective, better.
(Letter to: Punjabi Premanand -  Bombay 16 April, 1976)

Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?
Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.
(Morning Walk – June 11, 1974, Paris)

In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.
(Letter to: Bahurupa – Bombay 22 November, 1974)

Paramahamsa: My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad Gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-Gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?
(Morning Walk, Paris 11/6/74)

The Spiritual Master is present wherever his sincere disciple is trying to serve his instructions. This is possible by the Mercy of Krsna. In your attempts to serve me and in all your sincere devotional sentiments I am with you as My Guru Maharaja is with me. Remember this always.
(Letter to: Bhakta Don  –  Los Angeles 1 December, 1973)

arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living.
(Lecture Excerpt – Los Angeles, January 13, 1969

Narayana Maharaja "not a notable person"?

Dear prabhus! Wikipedia has deleted Srila Narayana Maharaja's encyclopedia entry. They are saying he is not a "notable person". Please join this group and show that we know different! Your suggestions and support for how to get Srila Gurudeva's Wikipedia page either un-deleted, or re-written (and kept, this time!) are most welcome! Please also feel free to add all your friends who are sympathetic to this cause.
Thank you! Gaura premanande...
Hari Hari bol!!

PADA: NM is notable, he was the biggest cheer leader / shiksha guru / rasika advisor / of the Tamal and bogus GBC's molester messiah guru program, ever! ys pd

Tuesday, March 26, 2013

French Language Prabhupadanugas

(Some BROWSERS will ask if you want to TRANSLATE to ENGLISH, works great for us) 

How sam kirtana became SCAM kirtana (Aindra)

Techniques of Vaishnava Debates

Famous Actors Visit Akshaya Patra!

Film Actors Visit Akshayapatra

Hare Krishna. Telugu Cine artistes Kamal Kamraju, Adonica, Sri Lekha, Kumaran, and Vijay visited the Akshaya Patra Center at Vizag. They served meals to the little kids. 

Lord Chaitanya is the Golden Avatar

Yasomatinandan Kirtana

Monday, March 25, 2013

Which Original Books Really Available from BBT?

STEVE: I just returned from the BBT offices at New Dwarka Temple community {Los Angeles, Ca.} 

While there I inquired from the staff as to weather or not the BBT or the BBTI was still printing Srila Prabhupada's "Original" Pre-1978 books. I was informed that the 1972 McMillian Bhagavad Gita As It Is, as well as the "Original" Caitanya Caritamrta are not being printed and are not available through the BBT or BBTI.

However the "Original" 1970, Silver Krsna Books are currently availiable for sale. The BBT is currently printing the following "Original" Books by Srila Prabhupada; 1} Teachings of Lord Caitanya 2} Si Isopanisad 3} Resevoir of Pleasure 4} Beyond Birth and Death 5} Perfection of Yoga and 6} Nectar of Instruction.

Hopefully sometime in the near future the BBT will be printing Srila Prabhupada's "Original" 1972 Bhagavad Gita As It Is, as well as His "Original" Caitanya Caritamrta. I hope to see these Books available again from the BBT, to both the Devotee community and the public at large.

July 9th letter temporary: Debunked pt.2

The speculative idea that the July 9th letter only applied to when Srila Prabhupada was ill is debunked - Part 2

Yashodanandana Dasa, Los Angeles, California

Originally GK tried to use the Oct 18th conversation as evidence that July 9th only applied to while Srila Prabhupada was sick. He said that July 9th, Srila Prabhupada appointed ritviks because he was sick, and then said that in Oct Srila Prabhupada had deputed the 11 ritviks to be regular diksha gurus because he was sick. I asked him, which was it? Had he deputed them to be ritviks because he was sick, or deputed the ritviks to be regular gurus because he was sick? How can it be both? He did not answer. What he was trying to assert was that on Oct 18th SP had deputed JP to initiate as diksha, not just as ritvik, because SP was now stopping THIS initiation. He claimed that THIS initiation could not be the ritvik aspects because he claimed that SP had already stopped those aspects on July 9th, and thus he claimed the only initiations he could be stopping in Oct was the diksha aspects.
But, after praying to Srila Prabhupada what the facts were, SP revealed to me that he had not actually stopped anything as of Oct 18th. The 11 had not yet started to perform the duties he had deputed them to do. Not one ritvik initiation had been held. And the most unique feature of the July 9th letter was that SP had turned over to the ritviks the duty to make the final decision whether someone could be initiated or not. This, clearly, SP had not yet stopped because there he was on Oct 18th making that very decision regarding one Bengali man whom SP just made the final decision for him to be initiated. Thus disproving GK's argument that SP had stopped those ritvik aspects back in July. No, he was stopping them, finally, on Oct 18th.
Besides that, Oct 18th SP is referring to that PAST where he had already deputed JP, and all he had deputed in the past was as ritvik. SP also repeatedly referred to Where, in what document, he had already deputed him. It was There in That List, the List of Names which was the July 9th letter. He was not asking them to become diksha guru at that time.
Also, I noted that SP told JP to initiate (via the ritvik process on SP's behalf) that Bengali man because JP was ritvik acharya for Mayapur. Because he was the Nearest. One does not take diksha from someone, accepting them as eternal guru just because they happen to be nearest. In so many ways I kept defeating his [GK's] points, and not one single time did GK admit, even once, that I was right and he was wrong. He just kept trying to come up with another angle, another point, somehow or the other to try and trip me into some trap.
But he never answered most any of my questions or addressed the ramifications. And the unanswered questions were increasing with each new point he raised.
The questions and ramifications demand to be addressed, because no matter what other angle he put forth, those issues would stand, regardless of any new point. But in the end he remained silent and chose not to address the issues. At the end I reminded him that failure to answer was a sign of defeat. He ignored that and tried to push on with his plan to come up with new ways to trap me into some web he was weaving.
It is accepted principle, and he quotes also, that to avoid replying means defeat.
I am setting up a new website where I plan to post more detailed excerpts of the discussion and of the topic, to try to provide a place on the internet for propagating the arguments in support of the on-going ritvik side. I have the website,, but have not had time to work on it. I was about to do so when this discussion ate up all my spare time. But, the discussion came at just the right time, because now I will be able to incorporate the essential points of both sides and more conclusively present our arguments.
The conclusion:
The speculative idea that the July 9th letter only applied to when Srila Prabhupada was ill is debunked. It has no basis, no evidence to support it, and to do so has serious ramifications that their side refuses to address. Thus, it cannot be accepted. The Oct 18th argument that Srila Prabhupada had stopped diksha initiation and deputed JP and the others to be diksha was also debunked. This was the main evidence the GBC and GK were using to support their theory. These arguments were shown to be insufficient and in the end, disproved.
Also, in conclusion, I would like to point out the following analysis. These people are obstinate in thinking that they are right. I see two main foundations for this obstinacy:
1) Is that some are totally convinced that an on-going ritvik process is bogus. No past Acharya ever did this. It "has" to be bogus. For them, they feel there is absolutely no way Prabhupada could have ever meant this to be. They are so convinced of this that they try every which way they can to prove this is not what Srila Prabhupada wanted... When the evidence shows it is what he wanted, they either ignore the evidence or try their best to discredit it. Many times they wind up discrediting Srila Prabhupada in the process, but do not realize it. (Such as insisting that Srila Prabhupada intended the July 9th letter to mean something totally different than what it says.) That path leads us to question Srila Prabhupada's mental capacity at the time. Had he become senile? Absent-minded, forgetful, befuddled, confused? This, they will not answer. They do not believe this (and of course the facts do not support this), but they cannot answer the questions and so try to gloss it over and try to side skirt those challenges to find another way to prove their losing case.
2) Another cause of their obstinate behavior is that some are or very much want to become regular diksha guru. They are very motivated to want to prove that the on-going ritvik is bogus and were not what Srila Prabhupada actually wanted. (They can be regular guru, no one can stop them.) But, they cannot imagine how the two, an on-going ritvik process and their becoming regular guru can go on side-by-side. They kept arguing as if one nullifies the other. That concept was shown to exist only inside their heads alone, and in reality, both processes can go on, side by side. Even one person can be both a regular diksha guru for those who desire his direct shelter, and can facilitate a ritvik initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada for those who feel their direct relation is with Srila Prabhupada.
I wish to point out that there is also stronger potential to be motivated beyond the truth from their side. Especially those who have desire to become guru. Actually, they are free to become guru, but they want to become ISKCON guru. ISKCON has its guru, Srila Prabhupada. If they want to become guru, they need to start their own ashram, as Srila Prabhupada had done, as he set the example. All past gurus are gurus of their own ashram.
What is our motivation? What do I personally have to gain by arguing that SP wanted an on-going ritvik system? The only motive I can find is my desire to establish that which I see that Srila Prabhupada wanted. I have nothing to gain from promoting this stand. I have no disciples to gain, no dakshina to gain, no fame, adoration, distinction, profit, etc. Rather, the ritviks are today put down by most in ISKCON. They are seen as deviants, as rogues and rascals, as fallen. We are called names, denied services, sometimes kicked out of temples, slugged in the face for trying to show others that the GBC has been wrong. Personally, I do not see that I have anything personally to gain, but have stood to lose a lot by taking this stand. Why else would I do so other than I am convinced this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted?
Aspiring to become your humble and most obedient servant,