[PADA: Thanks for your wonderful article prabhu. Yes, the Uttama Sloka (Ron Marinelli) group was recently beating the stuffing out of a poor newer Bhakta, who was initiated by a GBC guru (with predictable sad results) because this Bhakta was arguing correctly that we originated with Krishna. And so the Uttama Sloka group harassed this poor Bhakta and literally drove him to shedding tears, because they had to resort to attacking his character for not accepting their bogus idea, that Srila Prabhupada's teachings are false.
As PADA pointed out some time ago, Uttama Sloka is basically preaching the Catholic Church's "Jiva Tattva," that some pre-fortunate souls start off with God in heaven, and some pre-condemned souls have to start out here, in a lesser -- if not fallen state. OK that means God is a biased tyrant, God pre-judges some of His children as less important than some of His other children. And following form, Uttama Sloka is a giant bully in promoting his bogus ideas, just like he thinks God is a giant bully.
Of course, this all fits together, since the Uttama Sloka / Ron Marinelli / GBC / Gaudiya Matha idea is that acharyas are voted in, just like the Pope is voted in. So -- on all sorts of levels -- they want to introduce their mundane ideas onto the spiritual process. Then again, some of the ISKCON ex-children ask us, where were these Uttama Sloka types when PADA was protesting all the banning, beating, molesting and murders? Well apparently, he was propping up the regime by saying the Gaudiya Matha's voted in messiahs and other ideologues are correct -- as well as their other foolish ideas.
Yep, we are not going Back to Godhead because we were never there, and Srila Prabhupada said -- those who say that are tinged with Mayavada. So they are clearly Mayavada, and they are also ecclesiastical church voted in acharyas, ok they are mundane people, plain and simple.
I find it horrendous that they are beating up even on new Bhaktas to try to shake their faith in the acharyas and Krishna, and they want people to accept their hellish idea that God is a biased bully tyrant, who pre-judges some of His children to have to fall into hell while others are pre-judged to stay with Him. Yep! God is the most horrific dictator, and they call that "the rasika idea." I am glad you appreciate how deviant these people are.
Right! God is equal to ALL of His children -- and so He starts ALL of them off in the same location, with Him, and some of us MAKE A CHOICE to leave. Thus! Some are not pre-destined to be with Him while some are pre-destined to be outside of the father's house. Then again, if we look at the policy of folks like Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, and some of these other preachers of the idea that God is a tyrant, and we look at some of the acharyas they have promoted, we would have to say mostly their acharyas are also tyrants, because they are in love with tyranny. And that is why they beat the stuffing out of this poor new bhakta and made him cry ... they worship tyranny.
Of course the bogus ISKCON GBC's gurus are the original cause of all of these problems, because they are the people who introduced these Gaudiya Matha "tinged with mayavada" folks into ISKCON in the first place, and unleashed this Pandora's box of foolishness.
Hare Krishna Dear Pada Prabhu,
Thank you very much for writing this post.I have nothing against Uttamasloka Dasa as I do not know him but it is very unfortunate that he is preaching incorrect false conclusions regarding the origin of jiva. Yes he confused the whole topic of jiva’s origin and surpassed the commentary given by A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and previous acaryas.He also claimed that what he is saying regarding the origin of jiva soul is agreed by all previous acaryas but the evidence is against his claim as all previous acaryas agreed on the conclusion that jiva fell down from the eternal lilas of Krsna.Here’s the evidence:
Here’s more proof:
The jiva origin issue has been debated so many times, there are many little raganuga wannabes around the internet, well equipped with esoteric sastric data, who fraudulently make a show of preaching raga-marga-bhakti in the world to satisfy their self establishing lust for labha, puja, and pratistha, they claim that jiva didn’t fall from the eternal lilas of Krsna and they label it as “envy-vada” because of this many neophytes are bewildered, but real devotees around the world have logically debunked their claims with the help of sadhu, sastra and guru.
The final conclusion is always - formerly we were with Krsna in his lila, or sport.The conditioned souls now in this material world were originally in a direct relationship of service to Krsna in the spiritual world. By misuse of free will, manifested as a desire to imitate the Lord and become the supreme enjoyer, some souls have given up their natural position.
They have been placed in the material world, but by proper use of free will they can regain their original position. What about statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha”? Srila Prabhupada has explained that in one sense we do not really fall. Our position is like a person who is dreaming. The person is lying on his own bed, but he is dreaming he is elsewhere. When he wakes up, he finds himself on his own bed. Actually, he never left his bed. He was just dreaming. So our position is like that.
We never leave our original position. Krsna simply creates a situation where we dream we have left. But when we wake up from the dream of material life, we find ourselves in our original position. The position never changes. We simply forget it for some time. So in that sense no one falls. Nevertheless, the original position is one of service to Krsna in the spiritual world. This is the way that Srila Prabhupada consistently answered questions about the fall of the jiva. He directly rejected suggestions that we were originally in the brahmajyoti or that we have been eternally in this material world.
He never said we were from the Viraja River, nor did he say our original position was different from the position we will attain upon going back to Godhead. These conclusions are in harmony with those of the previous acaryas and the sastras, especially Srimad-Bhagavatam. However, still this fact can only be accepted by those sincere seekers of truth who are not biased, who do not have inclination or disinclination and accept the authority of self realized empowered mahabhagavat devotees, they are sincere and just want to accept the real fact whatever it maybe.
But those who are biased, for them Krishna from within their heart supply intelligence required to make them believe what they want to believe regarding the origin of jiva soul or any other topic, and it is fine, I say believe what you want to believe, whatever makes you happy but please do not spread your beliefs to the greater Vaisnava community, just because the general mass of people are hypocrites, that doesn’t mean genuine people don’t exist and these genuine people would like to only accept the truth, so for the sake of them do not spread conclusions different from the previous acaryas, if you want to share your realizations,then that’s very nice, go ahead but before please confirm whether or not they are harmonious with the perfect conclusions of previous acaryas.
There have been many times when Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur’s book – Jaiva Dharma has been subject to misinterpretation but his many other statements regarding the origin of jiva are very clear – that jiva was really in the eternal lilas of Krishna.It is unfortunate that many so-called raganuga preachers around the internet cannot get their head around the fact that soul can really fall down to the material world and that Krishna consciousness is a process of revival.
It is the process of realizing your eternal vraja svarupa, your instinctive constitutional identity in relation to Radha and Krishna, and going back to home – back to Godhead. But maybe they don’t want to believe this because if they ascertain the fact that we really fell down from the lilas of Krishna, then this will make them humble! but they don’t want to be humble, they don’t want to accept that at some point of time in the course of eternity they became envious of Krsna and wanted to imitate him rather than serving him but know for sure that without being humble no one can chant the holy name of Krishna, the suddha-nama which is non-different from Krishna, which helps one understand such topics. t ād api sunīcenaṛṇtaror api sahi unāṣṇamāninā mānadenakīrtanīya sadā hariḥ ḥari
One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly. (Sri Siksastakam – Text 3)