Thursday, July 16, 2015

Vidura Writes about Torben and Ajit Krishna

Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna are changing Srila Prabhupada’s books!
Srila Prabhupada is available as Diksa guru to every devotee today

By Vidura dasa

Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna dasa are both apparently opposed to the unauthorized editing of Srila Prabhupada’s books today. However, both of them are preaching directly against some of the major principles taught in Srila Prabhupada’s books. 

They are preaching that Srila Prabhupada is unavailable today as the Diksa guru for new devotees (exactly what the book changers of ISKCON are preaching). But Srila Prabhupada teaches, through his books, the principle of presence by vibration; that the process of Diksa rests on the sincerity, determination and submissiveness of the disciple in executing the bona fide guru’s instructions. 

[PADA: Torben and Ajit are telling us that Kailash Chandra is the real hero of ISKCON, but he moved to Moab Utah telling us California is falling into the ocean soon. He also took the Berkeley cows to who knows where, and these cows are not accounted for, nor is the money Kailash took to care for these cows. 

Torben now claims that PADA "totally made up the story of the missing cows and the money taken by Kailash to care for the cows, its a lie." Except, Berkeley devotees all recall the cows being taken by Kailash? In any case, Kailash has not made any sort of alternate preaching system to make new devotees, distribute books and etc.

The books are all along giving us "divyam jnanam which destroys sins" aka diksha. Torben and Ajit Krishna argue exactly what Jayadvaita swami argues, that the physical body of the guru is required to transfer this divyam jnanam, forgetting that many of the devotees of Srila Prabhupada never met him in person, they met him through the books. 

As for their master plan to promote Kailash, he is not even distributing the books and making new devotees there? How can we move forward without making any new devotees? Kailash also says the guru is posthumous, but even the Christians say "Jesus lives" of their guru, they have a better idea.]

And thus “the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect.” (Bg 4.34 Purport) To say that the process of Diksa requires the guru’s physical presence or direct contact in a way that prevents new devotees from legitimately accepting Srila Prabhupada as their Diksa guru is a completely fabricated, concocted imposition on the spiritual process of Diksa. 

[PADA: Even when Srila Prabhupada was present physically, most people connected to him via the books, and the rank and file devotees (ritviks?) acted as his preachers or agents. He never changed that system?]

Such concoctions have infiltrated the movement today. Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna have taken shelter of this deviant concocted philosophy which their self-appointed gurus perpetrate, yet they claim to be attempting to preserve Srila Prabhupada’s teachings! This article clearly refutes the above concoction and establishes, by Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, Srila Prabhupada being available as the Diksa guru for any sincere devotee today as an irrevocable fact.

To briefly quote Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna from Facebook:

Bhakta Torben: “We are not speaking of the transmission of knowledge through the media of the books. The ritvik MIS-conception is that one can be initiated to a departed guru. THIS is the hub…

You CANNOT have diksa-initiation from a departed guru. It is VERY SIMPLE.”

[PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada says we need initiated people to do the cooking an deity pooja, and these fellows told me there is no more any need to have initiated people doing the cooking and deity pooja. Where does Srila Prabhupada say we have to stop the cooking and deity pooja? Torben and Ajit cannot show us where this was ever stated?] 

Ajit Krsna dasa: “If you are not in direct contact with Srila Prabhupada, then you cannot know whether he accepts you as diksa-disciple or not, and to start to worship him as your diksa-guru, when you do not know if you have been accepted is wrong.”

[PADA: How do we know Ajit's idea has been accepted? And what is Ajit's idea, apart from that he says we no longer require cooks and poojaris in Krishna's temples. How can we have a temple and deities -- with no one to cook for them and do the pooja? And where is this system stated by Srila Prabhupada?] 

Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna do not have spiritual understanding. They assert that there is no way for a devotee today to understand whether they have been accepted as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada without being in direct contact with him. This is what has been desperately propagated by the deviant ISKCON gurus and their followers for the last ~40 years. For the sake of establishing the truth, we will proceed with defeating the argument once again, by a close examination of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings.

The important question is, what is the criteria by which a disciple understands that he can be and has been accepted by a bona fide spiritual master, particularly His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada? We must go to Srila Prabhupada for this answer. And what better source to consult with than Lord Krsna’s very words to Arjuna regarding accepting a spiritual master, and Srila Prabhupada’s purport to those words. 

This must be one of the most famous and instructive verses to this regard (and it is worth noting that, sure enough, it has been “edited” and altered by the book changers). Below, Srila Prabhupada gives the complete criteria by which a disciple may be accepted.

"Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. [...] A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect." Bg 4.34 Purport

This purport by Srila Prabhupada describes the full criteria for a disciple to be accepted by the spiritual master – that is to say, when genuine spiritual understanding is imparted or “blessed” upon the disciple. There is no need to stipulate any further as per the criteria already given here. The disciple must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master. What is that test? The genuine desire of the disciple in submission, service and inquiry. In fact, this is described by Srila Prabhupada to be an “automatic” test – a very significant use of the word here by Srila Prabhupada. 

Nowhere in the purport (4.34) is it written that in order for the spiritual master to observe or “see” the genuine desire of the disciple, physical presence of the spiritual master is required; this would be an imposed stipulation. Therefore we must assume that the spiritual master is able to detect a genuine devotee sincerely executing his orders no matter what the circumstances may be. Indeed, the principle taught by Srila Prabhupada is:

"Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material condition." SB 7.7.1 Purport

"The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent." SB 2.9.8 Purport

"The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence." S.B. 1.7.22, Purport

"As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krishna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krishna prasadam etc., then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Caitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on." Letter -- 30/6/74

Transcendental knowledge depends on the satisfaction of the bona fide spiritual master, being satisfied with the sincere disciple:

“For advancement of material knowledge there is a need for personal ability and researching aptitude, but in the case of spiritual knowledge, all progress depends more or less on the mercy of the spiritual master. The spiritual master must be satisfied with the disciple; only then is knowledge automatically manifest before the student of spiritual science.” SB 2.1.10 : Purport

Here Srila Prabhupada compares material book knowledge to actual transcendental or spiritual knowledge. Thus Srila Prabhupada’s books act as himself, in the same automatic way taught in the first purport examined (Bg 4.34):

“Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered.” Letter -- 24/01/70

“In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.” Letter – 11/22/74

“Actually, if you simply serve in a surrendered attitude, and go on chanting regularly, the answers to everything will come out automatically: "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.” Letter -- 27 February, 1972

This reception of knowledge does not require his physical presence. Lord Krishna has indeed sent a physical or external spiritual master (representation of the Supersoul) to guide the sincere souls back to Him. But we are and always have been instructed to reap the benefits of Srila Prabhupada, the physical spiritual master, through his instructions (books). In other words, his books are the very purpose of his physical appearance in this world, and are the direct result of his physical appearance. 

The books perfectly represent him today, and Srila Prabhupada says he is not different from his books/instructions. The instructions or books themselves are physical and can be directly perceived through the eyes by reading them. This kind of reading is the same as hearing from the lips of Srila Prabhupada and is distinguished from ordinary reading or book knowledge:

“All Vedic knowledge is based on the principle that one must approach a bona fide spiritual master and hear from the authoritative statements of the Vedas. It is not necessary for one to be a highly polished literary man to receive knowledge; to receive perfect knowledge from a perfect person, one must be expert in hearing. This is called the descending process of deductive knowledge, or avaroha-panthā.” Cc Adi-lila 16.52

"These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing." Letter -- 19/10/74

“Yes, if they read. Even if they touch. That is the difference between this book and ordinary book. Even they touch and they read one line and says, "Oh, it is very nice," he makes a step forward.” Room Conversation 7/5/75

Therefore, Srila Prabhupada’s books are his physical representation today. Srila Prabhupada is available in that way any way you look at it. We can receive Srila Prabhupada’s blessing of genuine spiritual understanding from our sincere execution of his instructions.

[PADA: This is another good point, many of the 1970s formal initiated people have fallen away, and many have fallen badly, whereas a number of the newer people are performing the sadhana better than many of the formal initiated. That means, initiation is primarily the internal connection and not the outward bodily connection.]

Moreover, even during Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence in the world, he had not observed all of the thousands of his initiates in person, but rather through officiating representatives (other devotees i.e. temple presidents or sannyasis). Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna seem to be uninformed of this historical reality. Srila Prabhupada makes this scenario clear in the following purport:

"In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representatives for at least six months to a year." Cc. Madhya-lila, 24.330 Purport

Srila Prabhupada reaffirms this as depending upon the discretion of the representatives as to who may be accepted as his disciple:

Srila Prabhupada: "So without waiting for me, whoever you consider deserves. That will depend on discretion."

Tamal Krsna Goswami: "On discretion."

Srila Prabhupada: "Yes."

Room Conversation, 7/7/1977, Vrindavan

Thus Srila Prabhupada clearly and practically demonstrated for us that the real initiation and the reception of transcendental knowledge is in our sincere and submissive execution of his instructions, irrespective of his direct physical participation. This is why it is nowhere to be found that Srila Prabhupada appointed any Diksa guru successors – because the perfect system was already in place in the society with him as the Diksa guru - why should it have to change?

"Why this Gaudiya Matha failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that "This man should be the next acarya." But these people, just after his passing away they began to fight, who shall be acarya. That is the failure. They never thought, "Why Guru Maharaja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be acarya?" They wanted to create artificially somebody acarya and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense that if Guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acarya, why did he not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point?”

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay

Srila Prabhupada, through the famous July 9th letter, simply ordered for everything to continue the same way, with new initiates to be considered his disciples, having been initiated by Srila Prabhupada spiritually, through ritvik representatives acting formally on his behalf. The blessing of spiritual knowledge was still being imparted from Srila Prabhupada, of course. This system never required his physical involvement, especially as demonstrated within the time frame leading up to his disappearance.

Srila Prabhupada therefore describes initiation in the following way.

"Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge... knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing." Interview, 16/10/76, Chandigarh

"Initiation is a formality. If you are serious, that is real initiation. My touch is simply a formality. It is your determination, that is initiation." "The Search for the Divine", Back To Godhead #49

“…you live in temple or without temple, if you follow the instruction, that is wanted. …Oh, initiation can take place anywhere.” Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975

"A disciple means who voluntarily agrees to be disciplined by the spiritual master. When one becomes disciple, he cannot disobey the order of the spiritual master. [...] "I am now surrendered to You, and I agree voluntarily to accept Your ruling." This is the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple." Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 2.11 -- Mexico, February 11, 1975

"Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination." C.c. Madhya, 4.111, Purport

"In other words, the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord Visnu. This is the purpose of diksa, or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness." C.c. Madhya, 9.61, Purport

“I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.” Radio interview, 3/12/68

There is no need for actual physical contact (save and except contact with his instructions) or physical vision of the spiritual master in order for the imparting of transcendental knowledge to take place. This is not spiritual understanding. To stress the need for physical presence is a shallow, materialistic misconception of the real teachings of Srila Prabhupada, which constitute the essential principles of the parampara disciplic succession. 

Adhering to the prominent acharya Srila Prabhupada’s instructions with a service attitude (sevaya) and submissive inquiry (pariprasnena) is the bona fide method of linking to our Parampara today, with Srila Prabhupada being the current authorized link. This can be done by anyone, anywhere, provided they are sincere and submissive to his instructions.

"...disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion." Letter -- 31/10/69

"Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. […] We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. " Letter -- San Francisco 12 April, 1968

“The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.” Cc Adi-lila 1.35 Purport

"So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living."

Letter, 13/01/69, Los Angeles

The problem we are facing today with persons like Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna dasa is that they simply do not want to accept the vibration, the instruction of the spiritual master, as the living functional presence of Srila Prabhupada. They waste their intelligence arguing against this essential philosophical principle taught by Srila Prabhupada. How can they claim to be preserving his books while adulterating the very teachings in the books by preaching otherwise?

Why should future generations of ISKCON have to settle for less-qualified (to say the least) so-called spiritual masters, when we have an uttama-adhikari, infallible, unalloyed devotee spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, available today guiding through his instructions?

“The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class.” Cc Madhya-lila 24.330 Purport

“… a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.” Nectar of Instruction 5

“There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach.” Cc Madhya-lila 22.71 Purport

“If one always follows the orders of the spiritual master, there is no question of falling down. As soon as a foolish disciple tries to overtake his spiritual master and becomes ambitious to occupy his post, he immediately falls down.” SB 5.12.14 Purport

“The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started for this purpose, so that hundreds of ISKCON centers may give people a chance to hear and chant, to accept the spiritual master and to disassociate themselves from persons who are materially interested, for in this way one can make solid advancement in going back home, back to Godhead.” SB 4.22.23 Purport

Concluding quotes:

Madhudvisa: Is there any way for a Christian to do without the help of a Spiritual Master. To reach the spiritual sky through believing the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?

Srila Prabhupada: I don't follow.
Tamala Krishna: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus' words, reach the ...
Srila Prabhupada: When you read the Bible, you follow Spiritual Master. How can you say without? As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means that you are following Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master?
Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living Spiritual Master.
Srila Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that “by reading Bible,” when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ.

Morning Walk, 2/10/68, Seattle

“It is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding. Even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. And what to speak of such exalted, authorized personality like Bhaktisiddhānta. […] There are two words, vāṇī and vapuḥ. Vānī means words, and vapuḥ means this physical body. So vāṇī is more important than the vapuḥ. Vapuḥ will be finished. This is material body. It will be finished. That is the nature. But if we keep to the vāṇī, to the words of spiritual master, then we remain very fixed up. […] If you don't keep in touch with the original link, then it will be lost. And if you keep touch with the original link, then you are directly hearing Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, spiritual master, if you keep always intact, in link with the words and instruction of the superior authorities, then you are always fresh. 

This is spiritual understanding. […] So you are hearing this philosophy daily. Try to understand more and more. We have got so many books. And this is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and, by disciplic succession, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, then my spiritual master. Then we are trying our level best. Similarly, you will also try your level best on the same principle. Then it will go on. Same principle.” (His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Prabhupāda's Appearance Day, Lecture — Atlanta, March 2, 1975)

"These great souls (members of the disciplic succession) were not mere luminaries like comets appearing in the firmament for a while and disappearing as soon as their mission is done. They are like so many suns shining all along to give light and heat to succeeding generations. Long time yet to roll on when they will be succeeded by others of sublime mind, beauty and calibre."

“He reasons ill who tells that Vaisnavas die

When thou art living still in sound!

The Vaisnavas die to live, and living try

To spread the holy name around!”

- Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

[PADA: By the way, all these people like Ajit Krishna, Torben, Prahlad das, HKC Jaipur, who say "PADA is a liar," are the real reason we had so much banning, beating, abuse and even murders going on the whole time. Its the mentality of helping the victimizers by suppressing the critics. 

When we were reporting crimes, these types of people were saying its all fabricated, lies etc. which enabled and allowed the crimes to continue, and they still say we are liars for reporting all these issues, including the crime of changing the books. Its not a minor deviation, its a spiritual crime to change these books. 

Krishna Kirtan says he was not there when this was going on so he is not liable, no he is liable, to say that these victimizations are all false is re-victimizing the victims even now. The GBC said we were liars to cover up the crimes in the past, these guys say we are liars now to cover up the crimes all around, its the same "help the deviants and suppress their critics" mentality, either past or present. The bogus diksha guru issue is a smoke screen to allow and enable the criminals, and has been all along. ys pd] 


  1. Max Køngerskov "Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krsna are changing Srila Prabhupada's books" Where Vidura? How Vidura? When Vidura?

    PADA: Torben and Ajit are quoting Jayadvaita all the time, they are saying the books have no potency to give divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha). That is not what the books are saying? They are still disciples of Jayadvaita when it comes to guru tattva. ys pd

  2. According to one source, Ajit Krishna has become a disciple of one of the current GBC's gurus. That would explain why he is so adamant that neophytes should sit in the seat of Jesus, have their feet washed like Jesus, claim to be able to take sins like Jesus, take big titles like His Divine Grace etc., because that is what the GBC guru system has been doing all along. Of course this begs the question, why is he so reluctant to admit that he is connected to the book changer's sampradaya? Why is Ajit saying exactly what Jayadvaita says, that neophytes can be worshiped like Jesus messiahs? If anyone has details about his connections to the GBC's guru system, please send to


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