PADA: I was not clear, sorry. The experience I have had is: (a) that women who I have personally counselled who had stayed in "abusive" relationships with a "controller type" man, and (b) people who have stayed on in "highly controlled" types of relationships with saints / mahants / spiritual masters / gurus that they knew for some time -- were not really realized souls, ... the same symptoms of misplaced affection often manifests in both cases, the psychology is similar, even I'd say -- almost identical. In both cases they have mis-placed their affection, and the same types of symptoms of devastation, grief, crying, even depression and so forth manifest in both cases. Its very similar psychology, i.e. mis-placed affection upon controlling types of people who were mis-using the post of control, "using" affection as a means of control and so forth, over others. So this is what I meant to say, the psychological effects of misplacing affection upon "controller" types of people is the same, the symptoms are the same, so we should consider carefully before we advise people to continue in such relationships, that was my point. ys pd
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PADA: Dear Raya, Good point, yes in January of 1977 Srila Prabhupada gave a series of talks on varnasrama. He said no more sannyasa, suspend sannyasa because the leaders are falling down and thus -- they are making ISKCON into a laughingstock, and so we should develop things like farms run by householders and "get people married." What happened instead is, that less than a year later, the leaders said they were not only fit for sannyasa, they were now Vishnupada acharyas. And just as Srila Prabhupada said, this made a worse laughingstock because they started to fall down and make the post of acharya into degradation. Worse, they made over 200 more sannyasa, after being told not to do so. Needless to say, this created and exodus of most of the householders and so many other problems, because the married folks were not feeling encouraged, that means the order to support the householder program was also not followed. ys pd
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PADA: Dear Raya, Good point, yes in January of 1977 Srila Prabhupada gave a series of talks on varnasrama. He said no more sannyasa, suspend sannyasa because the leaders are falling down and thus -- they are making ISKCON into a laughingstock, and so we should develop things like farms run by householders and "get people married." What happened instead is, that less than a year later, the leaders said they were not only fit for sannyasa, they were now Vishnupada acharyas. And just as Srila Prabhupada said, this made a worse laughingstock because they started to fall down and make the post of acharya into degradation. Worse, they made over 200 more sannyasa, after being told not to do so. Needless to say, this created and exodus of most of the householders and so many other problems, because the married folks were not feeling encouraged, that means the order to support the householder program was also not followed. ys pd
PADA: "Needless to say, this created and exodus of most of the householders..."
ReplyDeleteRight, to sum it all up, who is still there in present ISKCON?
We invited PADA repeatedly to come to Europe and see on site what happened past 20 years.
PADA refused to come - situation is that basically 100% all ex-ISKCOnites rank&file who did not lose faith in the path of bhakti joined the Gaudiya-matha.
Who stayed in ISKCON are those at the corridors of power, gurus who happen to be also GBC. They read PADA but in order to be prepared.
Present new generation of rank&file ISKCONites are newcomers who joined because they admire those new gurus who teach that they are Prabhupada's successors. In other words, only yes-men are welcomed.
PADA, fully aware of this situation goes on year after year with horror headlines that say, to leave ISKCON for good is the only right thing for you to do. GM: Told ya! Slow on the uptake? Dont worry we're still waiting.
When someone tells PADA, hey listen, there is nobody there anymore in ISKCON, only those 15,16, 17 year old newcomers who are schoolbreakers, runnaway kids, homeless kids, orphange kids who joined out of social reason, PADA doesnt get it.
PADA: give me a break, hey, hey, hey, I'll have to take my dose of Percodans and drive taxi all day.
Meanwhile PADA has some followers who agree that it is PADA's idea to worship Prabhupada. That, the idea of worshiping a pure devotee, was invented by PADA (PADA gets real angry if you wont recognize).
To preach like Prabhupada did for uplifting suffering humanity, to teach chanting the Holy Name, presenting realization what deepens our understanding of sastra, thats what PADA rarely mentions.
But may be in future, we are patient. Meanwhile PADA's former ally, BIF (150 articles at harekrsna.org) speaks his mind.
BIF writes:
Your navigational system was manufactured, installed and operated by the same mariners who have shipwrecked Prabhupada's ISKCON. And, like you, they all claim to be admirals when they are nothing more than buccaneers, playing with their sextants.
http://www.b-i-f.com/home.htm
I'm working full time over here, really cannot fix Europe and everwhere else? You have all kinds of ideas how to fix things, but we never hear one success story from you ever?
ReplyDeleteWhat are you fixing? Who follows your idea? Does anyone? Do you have even one follower of your idea? Nothing good is ever reported by you EVER. Not one success story EVER, not one person who agrees with you EVER, nothing, EVER!
You say I am not reporting positive news, but we are doing that all the time, we just got more Prabhupada people from the Prabhavishnu mess, and so forth. Never said I started the idea of worship of a pure devotee, this is trillions of years old idea from the Vedas?
I was the person reporting for years that ISKCON is going empty exodus style way back in 1980, decades before we even heard of you, you never got that? You are not reading what I wrote, I said its skeleton crew and was writing that way back in the 1980s. I was the person saying ISKCON is exodus not you?
You want to be the navigator for Europe, you got it, instead of talking against those of us who are doing something -- do something yourself. You never do, its just one sour grapes after another.
As for BIF, he now says we are "doing nothing" at all and we should be shut down by the government. So he has joined with Radhanatha and he wants to see the 1.5 million children we are feeding die of starvation, he is the person who is guided by the GBC, BIF wants what they want. He never left them.
BIF says exactly what Tamal said all along, shut us down, he is one of them. BIF also allows the worship of the pedophile messiahs club right on his back yard doorstep in Australia, notice he wants to shut us down because we oppose the pedophile worship, but he never threatens to shut down the pedophile messiahs right on his back yard having a picknick right behind BIF HQ office? He is still defending them by trying to shutter the critics, he is not shutting them down.
No, he wants to shut us down because he is still defending the pedophile messiahs as he has all along. And then again, does BIF have any followers? Does he have one positive report? Does he have any temples or preaching? Is he saving one person by giving them Krishna? No, he and you are basically the same, you criticize others who are preaching but you have nothing yourself. You are just envious we are doing at least something. Instead of wasting your lives barking at us, go save people?
We are not stopping you, nor are we stopping BIF? We are doing that, and our Prabhupadanuga process is doing that, we are getting more people to worship Krishna and Prabhupada every day, you clearly do not like that, neither does BIF, so ... the dogs will bark but the caravan will pass. You and BIF show us how its done, but instead neither of you has any followers, none. No preaching, none. No devotees of Krishna, none. You are the ones writing and saying we are doing nothing, when in fact you are the nothing-ness yourselves. ys pd