Tuesday, April 8, 2014

When Gaura Govinda Maharaja Was Challenged

Hare Krishna

Dear Sudarshan Prabhu, obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for your email. I haven't come across this before. I don't keep up with facebook, and this Madhavananda has certainly never tried to contact me personally. It's not like I have to answer him anything. I'm the one who has put up the Reward offer of $108,000 to anyone who can show proof that Srila Prabhupada appointed him as guru. That was what ticked Gour Govinda's followers off. And to date they haven't collected the money.

I don't know if Madhavananda is the person I'm thinking of - maybe it's another. But Madhavananda's version of what happened is somewhat different from what I recall. It has been many years since, but I do remember clearly that meeting with Gour Govinda Swami.

However, before that meeting took place, three devotees - and maybe Madhavananda was one of them - came to a Sunday feast programme we were having at our place in Singapore off MacPherson Road. I had met the one I'm thinking could be Madhavananda in his apartment in KL. 

The class was not even finished, and this person challenged that ritvik initiation is unbonafide. He claimed that their Gurudev, Gour Govinda Swami, had been ordered in a letter to become the successor Acharya for the Hare Krishna movement. I asked him how he could be sure of that, and he said that his Gurudev had revealed to his confidential devotees, including himself. Talk about audacity. He actually said that Gour Govinda Swami had a letter from Srila Prabhupada authorizing him to become the successor Acharya of ISKCON! 

Naturally I asked him if he had seen the letter. He said it was good enough for him to have heard about it from his Gurudev, and the letter was a secret that must not be revealed. None of them had seen the letter. He tried to continue to challenge that ritvik initiation is bogus, but I didn't want to engage. It was our Sunday feast programme, and there were members of the public in attendance. It just was not the right time and place for it. I could not accept his so-called evidence sight unseen, and he was not prepared to accept our arguments and evidence (letter of July 9th, 1977), so what could we possibly agree on? I said to him that there was no point to continue to talk, but bring the letter. 

He behaved very unreasonably, and persisted in shouting, till I told him to his face that it was not his place, and he could not speak in this way. Finally he said okay, when Gour Govinda Swami came, he would bring that letter and show me.

Three or four months later, I was in Yogjakarta, Indonesia, just coming off the plane and walking on the tarmac to the terminal, and happened to see Gour Govinda Swami walking the other direction, towards the plane. He was walking with two or three other disciples, all of them wearing devotional clothing. He was then on his way to Jakarta. And from Jakarta, apparently, he flew into Singapore. I came back to Singapore a day later, and then I heard from Thiru (the 'devotee lawyer') that Gour Govinda Swami was going to be at Senan's house, giving darshan. Thiru said to me, "You'd better get your money out, get ready to pay Gour Govinda Swami the $108,000." He called me in the late afternoon, and the meeting was that evening.

So three of us went: Thiru, the 'devotee lawyer' (he was a law student at the time), Vrindaranya and myself. I brought my cheque book. We arrived at Senan's house before Maharaja came downstairs. At last he came downstairs, and his disciples did a foot-washing ceremony. They sang "Ohe Vaishnava Thakur, and some other bhajans, glorifying him as the Vaishnava Thakur. I couldn't tell you who all was there. Madhavananda, or whoever that devotee was who came to our place, did not come greet me, and I don't remember seeing him there. 

He probably was there, but I didn't notice. He says I appeared nervous, but I remember being confident that I was going to find out the truth right then and there. I was there for one reason only, to learn from Gour Govinda Swami if he had a letter of appointment from Srila Prabhupada. Admittedly, I was not interested in hearing anything else from Maharaja. The devotees there knew who I was, and were in all likelihood guarded against whatever I might speak, and I figured they might even forcibly remove me from the room before I could get the words out. I gave Thiru a piece of paper with some questions on it, and requested him to ask the questions, and he did.

He asked, "Maharaja, you have received a letter from Srila Prabhupada ordering you to become Acharya of ISKCON, so why did you not act on it? Why did you wait almost 20 years for ISKCON to appoint you as a guru?"

The room fell quiet. Again Thiru tried to ask, "Did Srila Prabhupada appoint you to act as guru?" Gour Govinda Swami did appear to be taken aback by this line of questioning. He asked, "What's talking? What's he talking?"

Thru tried again, "Maharaja, did you receive a letter from Srila Prabhupada?" Again the question was deflected. At which point I spoke up - yes, rather loudly - and said, "He's asking you, is it true that you received a letter from Srila Prabhupada personally to act as the Acharya?"

Gour Govinda still said, "What are you talking?"

So I put it shorter, "Did you receive an order from Srila Prabhupada to become the Acharya?"

Yet again he asked, "What talking?"

That really pissed me off. It was unbelievable. I was embarrassed for him that he was pretending not to understand what we were asking.

Again I asked, "Have you been ordered to become the Acharya?"

He still refused to answer. He said again, "What you talking?"

I burst out, "Just simply answer yes or no. Maharaja, have you been ordered to become the Acharya?"

That's when he replied, "No order." He put his head down, and repeated, "No order." His head went down even lower, and his face was beet red. He said for the third time, "No order."

No one dared to speak. You could slice the air, it was like jelly. No one knew how to react. The silence dragged on for 5 to 10 minutes. Finally, with his head down, Maharaja told them, "Do bhajan." Then the devotees softly sang. He sat there. We sat for another five or ten minutes, and then we left. To me, they were defeated. Nothing further to say. Thiru, Vrindaranya and I left. No one dared to approach us or accost us. There was no other discussion or questions. The discussion Madhavananda alludes to is a fabrication. None of the disciples came up to us and said even one word further.
As to who was sincere or not... I'm sure Gour Govinda's disciples were mortally offended by my confrontational approach, but they were hardly standing on the platform of truth. To this day, I don't know whether Gour Govinda Swami himself ever made such a claim to his disciples, or whether his disciples invented it. If it was their own invention, then they have to take the responsibility for risking their Gurudev's humiliation. They came to me with untruth, and after I exposed it, Madhavananda says I was insincere.

We heard that Gour Govinda Swami passed away in India around a week later. His disciples have their own story of that pastime, and so does ISKCON. Who knows what's what? But from that meeting at Senan's house, we have not heard from his devotees. None of them have contacted me.

As for the $108,000 Reward, it still stands. I spent about a million US dollars on the BBT court case. What is $108,000 to lose? Of course I knew then and now there is nothing to lose. To this day, no one inside or outside ISKCON has come to claim it.

I hope this clears up the matter. Once or twice some years ago I thought maybe to write about this incident, but let it go. Now that you've brought it to my attention the rubbish that Madhavananda has written, I think others should know what happened so they won't be taken in by lies.

Are you the same Sudarshan from Singapore? - Your servant, Bhima das

5 comments:

  1. Prabhupada never wanted ONE acharya. Taking your conversation exactly as you remember it we see Gaura Govinda was challenged over and over if he had been appointed as The Acharya of ISKCON. That does not mean Srila Prabhupada did not tell Gaura Govinda personally to become an initiating guru in his own right. It just means he wasn't ordered to take over the movement entirely.

    [PADA: If Srila Prabhupada had appointed ANY gurus he would have made that very clear to the whole society. Even if he has told someone in a room privately alone, they are going to be a guru, then Srila Prabhupada would have told that person to have this announced to ALL others, so we would all know and it would be clear, to avoid causing mass confusion.

    GGM never mentioned his being appointed as a guru until some years after the GBC had already been rolling along, then all of a sudden, he remembered? That makes no sense? And if he had been appointed, why did he participate in the GBC guru voting system? Why did he keep defending keeping Tamal as a guru, even when all the other GBC wanted to remove Tamal? Sorry, if Srila Prabhupada had appointed any gurus / diksha gurus / successors he would have made that clear to the whole society to avoid creating havoc and confusion. He knew that appointing a guru / diksha successor in private and then having that person announce it several years after he had departed would cause chaos, so he would have wrote a letter making it clear who this guru or successor was.

    Then again, anyone can claim they are the "privately made" inheritor to the father's property, and so they should take over and be the owner of the father's property. Hmmm, problem is, then the other siblings would say, wait a minute, is there any paper that says you are the inheritor, and we are not going to have the property, you are? Srila Prabhupada would not have done that, knowing the chaos it would cause, he would have made a public announcement and also described to us how this system was going to be implemented and etc. That never happened. ys pd]

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  2. ( 2nd part )

    This fox Bhima dasa sure knows how to spin passed a story.
    And the one below makes him some kind of a mystic yogi with
    some mystic powers. Simply by raising his voice he stunned
    everyone in his presence and a week later Gour Govinda
    Maharaja passed away.

    "Bhima asked for the proof, but they had none. So a few months
    or so later, Gour Govinda Maharaja came to Singapore. Bhima
    went to the meeting, brought his cheque book, and after Gour
    Govinda Maharaja finished speaking his lecture, Bhima asked
    him, "So Maharaja, your disciples say that Srila Prabhupada
    personally gave you the order to become spiritual master.
    Can you please explain why you waited all those years until
    GBC appointed you to become guru? Why didn't you immediately
    act on the order?"

    Gour Govinda Maharaja responded, "What is that? What is it?"
    So Bhima spoke up a little louder, "Maharaja, is there an order
    for you to become guru?" No reply. Again Bhima asked, "Did
    Srila Prabhupada give you the order to become guru?" Silence.
    Bhima raised his voice, "Is there an order?" Everyone in the
    room was shocked. Maharaja was visibly stunned, and
    momentarily speechless. There was an uncomfortable pause.

    He answered, "No order. No order. No order." Three times.
    He was red-faced and couldn't speak for 5 minutes afterwards,
    then asked the devotees to sing kirtan. A week later he passed
    away in India."

    Now here is another version of his self promoting self
    glorified discussion:

    " I gave Thiru a piece of paper with some questions on it, and
    requested him to ask the questions, and he did.

    He asked, "Maharaja, you have received a letter from Srila
    Prabhupada ordering you to become Acharya of ISKCON, so
    why did you not act on it? Why did you wait almost 20 years
    for ISKCON to appoint you as a guru?"

    The room fell quiet. Again Thiru tried to ask, "Did Srila
    Prabhupada appoint you to act as guru?" Gour Govinda
    Swami did appear to be taken aback by this line of questioning.
    He asked, "What's talking? What's he talking?"

    Thiru tried again, "Maharaja, did you receive a letter from
    Srila Prabhupada?" Again the question was deflected. At
    which point I spoke up - yes, rather loudly - and said, "He's
    asking you, is it true that you received a letter from Srila
    Prabhupada personally to act as the Acharya?"

    Gour Govinda still said, "What are you talking?"

    So I put it shorter, "Did you receive an order from Srila
    Prabhupada to become the Acharya?"

    Yet again he asked, "What talking?"

    That really pissed me off. It was unbelievable. I was
    embarrassed for him that he was pretending not to
    understand what we were asking.

    Again I asked, "Have you been ordered to become the
    Acharya?"

    He still refused to answer. He said again, "What you
    talking?"

    I burst out, "Just simply answer yes or no. Maharaja, have
    you been ordered to become the Acharya?"

    That's when he replied, "No order." He put his head down,
    and repeated, "No order." His head went down even lower,
    and his face was beet red. He said for the third time,
    "No order."

    No one dared to speak. You could slice the air, it was like jelly.
    No one knew how to react. The silence dragged on for 5 to
    10 minutes. Finally, with his head down, Maharaja told them,
    "Do bhajan." Then the devotees softly sang. He sat there.
    We heard that Gour Govinda Swami passed away in India
    around a week later"

    We also heard that during that time in the early eighties his guru
    Hansadutta enjoyed eating wet or dry noodles and this fellow
    Bhima dasa use to make for him noodles bought from karmi
    shops (dried packed) with egg as part of the noodle's ingredient.
    So much nonsense and this people think they are holier than thou.

    Hare Krsna

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  3. This fellow Bhima dasa, in his argument with Krishna Kant Titled "Whose Final Order?", he claims that Hansadutta had told him that at the time of his initiation in 1978 he was, in Bhima's own words : " In 1978, when I was initiated by Hansadutta in Mayapur, he told me, “I am not actually the guru, but I’m initiating you on behalf of Prabhupada, and Prabhupada is your spiritual master." Really! Did Handutta dasa told him that? We in all sincerity doubt that.

    [PADA: Well yes, Hansadutta did not really start his ritvik initiation idea until we went and lived at the Berkeley temple and preached to him to do that. He was conflicted because he knew that was the right idea all along, he just got carried away with being worshiped as another Jesus. At that time I got a call from Sulochana that yep, PADA, you are right, I got to get out of this place and work with you in Berkeley. On the way here he stopped in LA and got a copy of the appointment tape, that is how we were the first people to give out copies of the transcript and audio copies, it was not available from the GBC at all. Its odd that people always cite that tape NOW, forgetting we were the ones who put it out.]

    Did Hansadutta told all the devotees he initiated thereafter the same? Never happened. And the truth came out from this cunning fox own mouth. "On a number of occasions between 1978 and 1983 Hansadutta did speak up that he was not qualified to be guru and that his disciples should worship Prabhupada."

    [PADA: Well that is somewhat true, from time to time Hansadutta would admit that he was falling down, but then the next day he would get back into the guru seat, he was conflicted.]

    Notice how this Bhima dasa describes Hansadutta's initiates as his disciples for the period of 1978 to 1983. "This was in the year 1993. At that time, he initiated a number of devotees, and asked me and my wife to on

    [PADA: OK Bhima is very dedicated to Hansadutta and wanted to paint him as doing the right thing all along. Sridhara, Gaura Govinda and Narayana Maharaja's people do the same thing, "well our guru never supported the bogus GBC gurus." So yes, a lot of people are trying to re-write history. For the record, Hansadutta eventually joined our idea, but we had to pound that into him with jack hammers for years and years and years. He was basically forced to admit due to all the failures of himself and his guru league. He is still dragging his feet on the poison issue and other issues like that, because its hard for him to admit his best allies and associates were that degraded, he is still in denial to a certain extent. ys pd]

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  4. Above message was from Wyatt prabhu.

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  5. Prabhupada told Gaura Govinda in private about becoming guru because his disciples were already planning on killing him with poison in early 1977, isn't it?

    [PADA: Actually that was what some of his followers told us, they think GGM was killed with poison in Mayapura. They wanted to get his body to have it forensically analyszed, but Jayapataka people took custody of it right away.]

    Then Gaura Govinda had to wait after the dastardly 11 gained control of the movement.

    [PADA: No he did not have to wait. If I had been appointed by Srila Prabhupada to do some service, I would just do it right away, and not wait for the 11 to start crashing on the beach. Why did he wait? Because he took advantage of their crashing to propel himself as the real item. But yes, he never explained why he waited?]

    Gaura Govinda did not see ISKCON as a prize to be won.

    [PADA: He told me personally, the GBC are totally corrupt, yet he has to work with the GBC gurus, thus he did not see ISKCON as important enough to defend and protect. He has to work with corruption, that is what criminals say every day, the Devil made me do it, they made me do it, .. and the judge says, ooh boo hoo, gimmme a kleenex, guilty as charged anyway. This is a bogus excuse to compromise with corruption, I have to do it, ... nope!]

    He had already built the temple at Bhubanesvara for Prabhupada on Prabhupada's orders. What need did an old man like him have for becoming guru? He lived as renounced as they came. Your speculation pada about how Prabhupada could only have done as you say simply shows how the former ex-disciple, namely you, cannot ever understand the mood of the pure devotee, both Srila Prabhupada and Srila Gaura Govindapada

    [PADA: I understand what happened exactly, he compromised with fools. He stood up at the 1993 GBC meeting and said we need to keep Tamal as a guru. We need to keep Judas as our guru? No, GGM needed to keep Judas, we all rejected Judas already. He compromised with Judas, that's what happened. ys pd]

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