Hansadutta das: on the Poison Issue

From Hansadutta

*Anyone ( like Puranjan ) can say anything, right or wrong, without presenting evidence, and there are no consequences. Not only Puranjan but anyone, whatever one may say, right or wrong .... there's no consequences.

[PADA: Problem here is, Srila Prabhupada is the person who says he is being poison and not us? The reason so many people have accepted the poison issue is -- because of the statements of the pure devotee, not because we happened to forward his statements. Since Srila Prabhupada says he is being poisoned, that is good enough for most of us.]

HD: Therefore there will never be any action taken on any issue. 

[PADA: Sorry, there is a lot of action being taken on all these issues. Many people are reading, getting up to speed, agreeing and getting involved. More and more sites are promoting the poison issue, and its statements and evidences, so its spreading around and has ever since it was publicly announced by us in 1997.] 

HD: So it is useless, it is a Caffee Klatch. You know the Germans are fond of "die Kaffee Stube" (coffee bar)..... old ladies go there, sit around, drink coffee and eat pastries and " KUCHEN ". Show off their latest dress or hat.... jewlery..... Actually the whole internet is like that Kaffee Klatching (coffee gossip) for different groups... politicals, economists, socialists, survivalists, .. on and on.... no result. 

[PADA: Well maybe, except almost everyone writes about the ritviks, the poison issue, the bogus guru's issue, maybe because, these are serious issues?]

HD: Let's just consider Puranjan, he has no authority from Prabhupada to do what he is doing. 

[PADA: Right, we did not declare ourselves to be messiahs and then take percodans, drink schnops, have illicit sex with a bunch of women, shoot guns at occupied buildings, burn Berkeley temple to the ground, promote homosexuals as messiahs, ad infinitum. That has been "authorized by Prabhupada," because that is what Hansadutta was doing? Where does Hansadutta derive his authority from?]

HD: He never had any responsible service while Prabhupada was here, he was not a Sankirtan, book distributor, he has opened no temple ever, he has probably never recruited a single devotee. 

[PADA: Well that is how the Gaudiya Matha criticized Srila Prabhupada, he was "not a big devotee." He did no substantial service blah blah blah. None of that matters, we said acharyas are not deviants, and we are right. It does not matter if we are the temple's dog, we are right.]

[...] Now lets just take a few points made by Puranjan...."Jesus Christ was killed...." 

[PADA: Once again Hansadutta cannot put one foot in front of the other? The person who says Jesus Christ was killed is Srila Prabhupada, not us. Hansadutta thinks that statements made by Srila Prabhupada are being made by us, because he never took the time to actually read what Srila Prabhupada says. And Srila Prabhupada SAYS -- just as Jesus was killed they may kill me also. That's NOT what we said? So this is called straw man argument, Hansadutta makes pretend we said something that we never said, rather Srila Prabhupada said this and we quoted him. He has not studied the issue or he would know who said what.]    

HD In 1969 Prabhupada read, "The Aquarian Gospel of Lord Jesus Christ" by Levi which was a popular book of that time, purported to be recieved by revelation to the author Levi. I also read this book because Prabhupada read it. His comment was, "I was very happy and relieved that Lord Jesus Christ did not die on the Cross as is popularly understood, I was always puzzled by the gruesome death of Jesus described in the Bible because according to vedic literature a Great soul cannot meet with such a gruesome death. So I am very much relieved to read in this book, that Jesus did not die on the cross, but was taken by some of his followers and healed, and subsequently traveled to Kashmir and died there in old age. In this book ( perhaps you have read it? ) it describes Jesus going to Jagannath Puri, he observes the worship of Jagannath deities, but disapproves of it. 

Prabhupada commented, "Jesus could not understand deity worship." Tamal asked him if Jesus was a pure
devotee, Prabhupada said he was not a pure devotee, nevertheless, he was a Saktyavesa Avatara, and we accept him as a great soul, as our Guru. These things are not to be repeated in public. 

[PADA: This is all undocumented, and would be considered as unreliable speculation in a real debate. Srila Prabhupada is however documented as saying Jesus is a pure devotee. He is documented as saying Jesus was killed and they may also kill me. None of this above from Hansadutta could be accepted in a debate because "Srila Prabhupada told me" is not evidence of anything. 

What is the evidence? 

Srila Prabhupada says -- my only request is do not torture me and put me to death; my "yeh sab friends" are talking about poisoning me; I am being poisoned by someone; Ravana will kill me if I stay in this room etc. The people in the room all agree he says he is being given poison. The people in the room are also discussing poisoning of gurus, and they are whispering "the poison is going down" etc. Hansadutta has no explanation for ANY of that.]

HD: Aside from this Prabhupada never said, "Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, my Guru Maharaja was poisoned." He always said, "It was said or it was suspected, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was poisoned."

[PADA: OK, and he says vahi bat, that same thing that people discussed before (about my Guru Maharaja?) ... is now happening to me. He also says "My guru maharaja also." So yes, that is an indication that poison has been used on other gurus, or even on his own guru. Srila Prabhupada says Srila Saraswati was being given injections, and he opposed that. Brahmananda also told people not to eat at Tirtha's place because "Srila Prabhupada says -- he poisoned his guru, and he might poison some of you." Hansadutta is now arguing FOR our case.]

HD: ".... also being in Vrindaban. I came there at the beginning of October 1977, from Sri Lanka. Although I was singing for Prabhupada every day for hours till the last day - 6 hours sitting on the bed with him, I never
heard Prabhupada say, "I am being poisoned, or someone has given me poison." 

[PADA: Right, once again you failed to listen to the tapes and / or read the transcripts that are now widely available all over the net. "I did not hear the tree fall in the forest," that does not mean there was no sound when the tree fell? 

You ALSO, apparently at least, did not hear that a person IS DESTINED for the lowest, most obnoxious places in the universe if he becomes a charlatan guru, as is stated in the Sri Isopanisad? You and your cohorts totally ignored this and many thousands of similar prohibitions, because you did not read, did not hear, did not care, or whatever it is. "Destined" means one is destined to go there, it cannot be changed, its destiny. Its not our call, its the verdict of shastra, destined means -- one will go there, its destined. Either we believe that or not.]

HD: He did say after the Makaradwaja Ayur Vedic medicine was given to him, and it reacted unfavorably, or too strongly - "It (the Makaradwaja medicine) is acting like poison". When Tamal Krishna then asked if
Prabhupada said he was being poisoned, Prabhupada replied, "No ! It is not that I am being poisoned, but the medicine is acting like poison". I can only tell you what I saw and heard with my own eyes and ears.... I don't say what other have said.... I don't speculate, and I don't believe Pabhupada was poisoned deliberately and knowingly by any devotee. 

[PADA: OK so when someone says "the poison is going down" that does not indicate a deliberate action? What is it then? There is a Ravana in my room, Ravana will kill, ... there is no Ravana? This was a bad dream? Nanda Kumar says there was a big demon in Srila Prabhupada's room, and he would either have to kill that demon, or kill himself, or leave, he chose to leave. Are all these various testimony, including from the kavirajas who think there was poison present, a fantasy dream?]

HD: Since I don't know Hindi or Bengali, I would not know if Prabhupada made any other statement in regards to poison so I can't comment on that. 

[PADA: OK that is why you have to study the hindi, which we had translated. You are way behind these issues, even Narayana Maharaja finally listened to the tapes and he said, Srila Prabhupada was given poison intentionally. Even slower turtles like him woke up and agreed, you are one of the few foot draggers left.]

HD: I personally do not believe Prabhupada was poisoned deliberately by Tamal Krsna or any other devotee. What I do think could possibly have happened is that, Adikesava swami, (his father supposedly was in the CIA ) who was sent to pick up Makaradwaja medicine from Delhi, from one Brahmacari das,

(not sure if this is his name). This person was a political wanna be in the circle of Indira Gandhi, later on he was imprisoned for some kind of fraud, and possibly before this incident also. So, I think it is possible that
Adikeseva Swami collected this medicine from this man's hand, and brought it to Vrindaban, the medicine was defective, or someone deliberately (political circle ??) added poison. 

[PADA: This also fails to explain the various whispers in the room discussing intentional poisoning?]

HD: VNN published an article on their site years ago, if you go to the Archives it may still be there, I came across it last year, or the year before by going to VNN Archives, it is written by Kavicandra Swami - I think, I could be wrong, but I specifically remember he was situated in Japan, an old Radha Damodar bus devotee. This document is very important, and struck me as the most plausible explanation of what might have happened. 

[PADA: Kavicandra is Tamal's clone, why are these people always our authority?] 

HD: Years ago I came across a book written by a Swedish professor, he gave scientific evidence of how Napoleon was poisoned by one french member of his staff on Devil's Island. Arsenic was injected into

bottles of Napoleon's favorite wine, through the cork, his conclusive scientific evidence shows that, by testing the hair of Napoleon it can be determined to the day, each time arsenic was administered, by coroberating
with the diary of his staff who would note any changes in health and other notable happenings. 

So if you ( Prabhupadanugas ) are serious this is the way to scientifically establish how, and when and maybe who and why. But it is very late in the game, I don't know if any hair remains from that time.

[PADA: A hair was analyzed and it did contain arsenic, where have you been Hansadutta? This is all old news for the rest of us. You are too isolated, and thus always a day late and a dollar short.]

HD: Back to my main point every fool, speculator, without actual facts and authority from Prabhupada, is jumping on the stage blurting out half truths, no truths, or fanatical sentiments and knots in the heart, the

result is endless speculation, but most of all INACTION.... no one has, in all these years, done anything to legally establish that Prabhupada was poisoned. If it is not established in acourt of law, then it is just rumors, speculation, conspiracy ... nothing, it's nothing. 

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada says he is being poisoned, that is "nothing"? That's the whole problem right there, all kinds of tragic things are going on in and around your guru circle, and its always "nothing." As Sridhara Maharaja said, you leaders are like oblivious army tanks driving over you own troops.]

HD: Devotees are simply making themselves look foolish by not doing things completely and in the standard way. Anyway, I sent you a note forwarded from Das to you. I got into modifying it and adding, this is the result. Your humble servant, Hansadutta das

[PADA: Thats another problem, legal issues take a lot of money, we have none. We take the words of our guru as the standard way, we do not need your "high court decision." ys pd]