PADA: There are people, ok like Hansadutta, the IRM, Ram Mohan, and similar others who keep telling us that if we could get the poison issue settled in court, then they would accept it. That means they accept the courts as their authority, and not the words of the pure devotee. Srila Prabhupada's God brothers also went to court, and Srila Prabhupada called them "high court acharyas," and basically he ridiculed the idea that the words of the acharyas are established by judges in the courts.
Then we have the Krishna West people, who agree with Hrdayananda, that Srila Prabhupada has been defeated by (mundane) academia, and that Srila Prabhupada has "over stepped his authority." OK, that is because they accept academia as their authority and not Srila Prabhupada.
Now the "Krishna West" folks are nit picking every single little thing that ISKCON does such as "worship a plant," "not use toilet paper," "wear clothes that look like a big diaper" and so on and so forth, because they have accepted another line of authority. And ISKCON's GBC still promotes these deniers and "doubters" as its gurus, knowing they have all these doubts. Amazing!
The more someone doubts the Krishna religion, the higher the GBC places them in their guru totem pole. Satsvarupa for example wrote ages ago, "I have to battle constantly with doubts that Krishna is a myth." And that is why the GBC has his books plastered all over ISKCON, people who think Krishna is perhaps a myth, become their main book writers! They are officially outside the purview of Vedic authority, and they have become critics of Vedic authority. Apparently, their meditation on toilet paper is going to continue their cycle of births and deaths here.
Then we have Prahlad das, who is ALSO citing these IRM attacks against PADA on the poison issue as well, because he is another person who has surrendered to the chicken tikka courts and he tosses out the words of the pure devotee. He and his pal William Moorehouse always cite the IRM posts against PADA that say, the poison complaint is bogus unless it is established in the courts (by the cigar smoking chicken tikka eating court folks).
They think if one eats chickens, smoke cigars, and goes to law school, then one is able to over ride the words of the acharya. The same courts have allowed the dead carcass of Kirtanananda to be buried in the holy dham, since they needed a legal court approved permit to do that. That is our authority, the same legal system that allows the carcass of Kirtanananda to be buried in the holy land?
Of course, that is when Prahlad is not citing the worst blasphemers of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna on his site, because he now openly accepts and cites these blasphemers of God as his higher authorities. Prahlad loves the blasphemers who say that the Krishna religion is a criminal operation, because Krishna is a criminal Himself. That is his authority that he now cites on his site, the people who use the foulest language against Krishna in the world, are the people he licks the boots of. Lets face it, Prahlad cites these blasphemers on his site because he is one with them.
So it really comes down to, whose authority do we accept? The court? Academia? Poison deniers like Hansadutta and the IRM? The worst blasphemers of God?
Wyatt is sort of in this category as well, he keeps insisting that Srila Prabhupada wanted no more initiations -- so there will be no more cooks, poojaris, and brahmanas for temple functions. Yet he never tells us where that is stated, that the temples will become devoid of any pooja, cooks etc.? Rather Srila Prabhupada said we cannot invite in Krishna, and then abandon Him?
Where is this ordered, that the pooja will be abandoned because there will be no initiated people doing the pooja? Its not stated anywhere, Wyatt is simply making himself as the higher authority on this issue, and he is over riding the acharya who said -- "do not change anything after I depart." Srila Prabhupada never said the system of having initiated poojaris would be stopped, he wanted it to be expanded and increased.
He never would have invited in Krishna, just to have the whole thing grind to a halt after 1978? That means Wyatt is taking the post as the order giver to the acharya, he is over stepping the authority of the acharya. And worse, he is promoting the idea of abandoning Krishna de facto. He is not accepting the authority of the acharya, who said, keep things going as they are now going, that means the initiations will continue hencforward.
Wyatt is sort of in this category as well, he keeps insisting that Srila Prabhupada wanted no more initiations -- so there will be no more cooks, poojaris, and brahmanas for temple functions. Yet he never tells us where that is stated, that the temples will become devoid of any pooja, cooks etc.? Rather Srila Prabhupada said we cannot invite in Krishna, and then abandon Him?
Where is this ordered, that the pooja will be abandoned because there will be no initiated people doing the pooja? Its not stated anywhere, Wyatt is simply making himself as the higher authority on this issue, and he is over riding the acharya who said -- "do not change anything after I depart." Srila Prabhupada never said the system of having initiated poojaris would be stopped, he wanted it to be expanded and increased.
He never would have invited in Krishna, just to have the whole thing grind to a halt after 1978? That means Wyatt is taking the post as the order giver to the acharya, he is over stepping the authority of the acharya. And worse, he is promoting the idea of abandoning Krishna de facto. He is not accepting the authority of the acharya, who said, keep things going as they are now going, that means the initiations will continue hencforward.
Then again we have devotees like Sanat and Mukunda who accept the conspiracy sites that say the world is run by the serpent people from the Draco constellation, and we need to do something about all the Jewish Bankers and etc. That is their line of authority, more beef eating speakers who promote the Draco constellation serpent people program. Their line of authority is the beef eating speculators. And so this is why Srila Prabhupada says, select your line of authority carefully. In any case, we are sorry to report to tall these folks, we simply do not accept their various lines of authority. ys pd
[PADA NOTE: To submit articles to pada send to angel108b@yahoo.com]
That means they accept the courts as their authority, and not the words of the pure devotee. - Puranjana dasa Wyatt - but the pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada has already said that he was not poisoned when Tamal Krishna asked him about it after the Kaviraja mentioned it.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Vahi bat, yeh hamko poison diye, someone is giving me poison, that is what he said. You have to take all the statements in context. If Tamal is the poisoner, he is not going to confront him by saying that? The poison complaint is in hindi, so he could get around the poisoners.]
Why can't our dear Puranjana dasa accept it. What is his difficulty in accepting the spoken words of the pure devotee - Srila Prabhupada who said he was not poisoned. Why does Puranjana dasa choose to ignore it and behave like a spoiled brat. Hare Krsna
[PADA: No,you cannot take one sentence out of the context of the whole conversation. He also said there are people talking about poison, and they were "the poison is going down." What is Wyatt's explanation? None.]
A lot of people have refuted it. books have been written refuting your opinion. but if someone's opinion of Prabhupada's words differ from your's, then you are the final arbiter of which version is correct. or do you accept someone else's opinion of Prabhupada's words? (here we go again, hee hee told ya)
ReplyDelete[PADA: Right, the GBC wrote a book refuting the issue, and for starters they had a bogus doctor who did not have a doctor's degree, and then their "sound expert" was a person with ZERO audio forensic expertise, instead he was a guy who had a very bad rock and roll recording studio, which was so bad at recording, it went out of business. That's your book? Well your book is mentioned in our book, your experts were bogus, for starters. The next problem is that we are not sure why you folks said "the poison is going down," sounds like "normal talk." Is that how you talk normally around your guru? Really? ys pd
*** That's not the question. the question is who is your authority on the poison issue or do you claim to be the authority?
ReplyDelete[PADA: What is your authority? We have produced all kinds of documentation, we see nothing from you at all? If you want to discuss anything in Vedic debates, or even high school debates, you have to make at least a position paper with quotes to back your view. The Goswamis analyzed position papers made by the Mayavadis, and they made their own counter position papers to defeat the Mayavada papers -- with a series of quotes and documents. If you have a counter position paper to our body of quotes and documentation, submit it and we will review it. You have none that we can see, that gives you no authority at all. You cannot enter a debate with no evidence, no documents, no quotes, no nothing, that is not done even in karmi debates in high school. You need to produce a body of counter quotes to support your view, you have failed to do so. The GBC's counter book is full of erroneous statements from people who do not even have the certification they claimed they had, its bogus.
*** Answer our question first. you have to tell us who is the authority on what Prabhupada says? Is it you or someone else? It appears that you, not prabhupada is your authority. you decide who is an expert, you decide what is said on the tapes, you decide prabhupada's meaning and intent, you decide all these issues, so you are the authority, not prabhupada. if someone's opinion differs from yours, you accept only yours because you are the final authority. otherwise, tell who is your authority on what Prabhupada says. or can't you do that. you cannot answer that simple question.
[PADA: The answer is self - evident, we have submitted a body of evidence including quotes from Srila Prabhupada, Kaviraja statements, eye-witnesses, audio forensic materials and etc. if you have no counter body of evidence, then you have no authority whatsoever. That's what we learned in High School debate class, if someone submits a claim based on a body of evidence, and we quoted all kinds including statements from Srila Prabhupada, and there is no counter body of evidence, then our version stands. And that why our version is being accepted more and more, and thus more and more devotees, web sites etc. are promoting it etc. Meanwhile no one has made a viable counter body of statements and documents. My high school debate class teacher would have pounded her gavel and said to you, "disqualified," as she would often do, when some knucklehead tried to make counter statements without citations, documents and etc. You are not even on her playing field unless you do so. So show us where your authority is by showing us your counter document, otherwise, we win by default. As our debate teacher would often do, the person with no documentation was disqualified and lost the debate before it even started. You are losing the debate for that reason, we started with maybe 2 people agreeing, now thousands agree, and it expanding daily, because you have not come up with any good counterpoint. ys pd]
PADA did not decide the gurus are bogus? We said they are, then the mass media agreed with PADA, and then the mass media TV, newspapers, Time magazine, Rolling Stone magazine, and every major paper in the USA published stories about the gurus to millions of people, then millions of people agreed with PADA.
ReplyDeleteFor example 26 million people saw the CBS news TV show where PADA editor was interviewed in 1986, almost all the 26 million agreed with PADA. OK a few idiots in ISKCON did not. The mass agrees with us. Then we said Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, and now thousands agreed, thats not PADA, thats thousands of people.
So first of all millions agreed with the PADA idea these gurus are bogus, now thousands agree with the poison case, and almost no one agrees with you because you have not made a convincing argument. When 26 million agreed with me, a few hundred of you idiots did not, so what?
That makes you the .0000000001 percent. A few idiots do not accept what we say, that's fine, but that's your fault, you have not made convincing counter arguments. Make the arguments, show us your position paper, we will analyse it. You still have not done that. Meanwhile our idea is being accepted, just like millions accepted our previous argument. ys pd
In any case, you are still not producing a paper? So we still have no idea what you support or do not support?
ReplyDeleteMost people really cannot deal with the poison tapes. Its too emotional for them to think about. Its going to take a long time for all this information to sink into their minds. Its just too much bitter pill to swallow. Thats why Hansadutta is so against it, he has emotional connection to the main suspicious group. Time will make this all become clear later. Something bad was coming down the pipeline, we all knew it, we just did not know how bad it was.
ReplyDelete"In any case, you are still not producing a paper........" - Puranjana dasa Wyatt - 'In any case' simply means that you are no different from those whom you criticize and condemn, the pot calling the kettle black. Not publishing my comments is not going to help you hide the truth. We have come to know Srila Prabhupada did not order post samadhi ritvik initiation and continue to accept disciples after his departure. We have now come to know Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned. Hare Krsna.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Thanks Wyatt but that is not a rebuttal to the books / papers we have made on the poison issue? The reason we are being accepted more and more is that we have detailed books and papers on the matter, and you have none. We just got at least four more people on board the issue this week, because they asked great questions and we gave them satisfactory answers that they said "make perfect sense."
Your answer, makes no sense, we have not seen your detailed paper with quotes in the first place.
As for Srila Prabhupada saying there will no longer be any more initiated cooks, poojaris and brahmana temple worshipers after 1978, so we will have to shut down the temples and turn them into museums (as is gradually happening anyway, since they are ghost towns, that is -- if they remain open at all) we simply cannot find him saying that. We do not find him saying, the nice deity worship of Krishna and Balarma in Sunnyvale has to stop, shut down the pooja, and get rid of the brahmanas there, so we will have nothing, no preaching, no brahmana cooks, no prasadam, no nothing, because we will have no one to manage the deity. Where did he says he wanted that? We are not seeing that, rather he said he wanted more brahmanas, more temples, more pooja etc. That is what he said, shut it all down, we do not find him saying that? You say that, but you are not him, and its a good thing because our temple is doing great over here, we have lots of nice guests, great kirtanas, tulsi pooja, cooking, prasadam, sunday school classes for kids, etc. I see no evidence he wanted that all to stop? There is none thats why! ys pd]
Thanks Wyatt, We are not boasting about anything, just pointing out the facts. We have a temple here full of people and its expanding. We are working on building a $5 million dollar temple. Meanwhile the ISKCON temple is a ghost town, and they have a hard time paying the electric bills, because your idea, -- that there will not be any more initiated brahmanas, so the temple should be an empty museum, is destroying the place.
ReplyDeleteYou correctly pointed out that the ritviks, i.e. the Christians, are doing WAY better in terms of making members than your dry "museum of living gurus idea," because they have more members. Right, the Christians are ritviks, and as you correctly pointed out, they are doing WAY better than your idea. Could not have said it better ourself, your idea is failing and our idea is the idea that works and expands. You are right. ys pd
They are selling Brooklyn temple n' getting rid of more ISKCON property. Same old story, sell it and pocket most of money. They always get rid of the people, then has a nice bogus excuse for selling the building.
ReplyDeleteThanks Wyattt, yes, the Prabhupada temple here is collecting $5 million dollars to build a temple, while your living gurus temple is barely making the electric bill. Its clear that your idea is not being supported, while ours is.
ReplyDeleteSo yes, we are winning. As for the Christians, Srila Prabhupada said they are worshiping a pure devotee, they would never worship the GBC's illicit sex messiahs, so they have more sense than your living guru-ites. So thanks for that, yes all the Christians are more advanced than the people who worship the GBC's illicit sex guru program, the Christians know that the guru must be pure, while followers of your living deviants as gurus system have not even understood what a guru is yet, they are clueless. ys pd