Saturday, April 5, 2014

Importance of Poison Issue (by Mahatma das)

Hare Krishna. Yes. The poisoning of Srila Prabhupada is a transcendental pastime that must be understood as such in as much detail as possible. Having said that, please understand that those presenting the topic of gross violence against Srila Prabhupada are not foolish sentimentalist devotees. They are devotees that want justice and that are willing to risk their lives, to present more and more evidence that Srila Prabhupada's closest secretaries, did try to destroy his body with poison and have been for decades now trying to destroy his movement, his devotees and his siddhanta by changing his books, exploiting people, etc.

To those of us that have some ksatrya genes, we can not help but to continue to investigate and gather evidence to show that these Ravanas, as Srila Prabhupada called them, tried to destroy his body. We know he was not killed by poison. His passing is transcendental as you say. Less so can they kill his vani. But they have tried to kill both! So at least some of us will not allow these Ravanas to get away with their plan to eliminate the pure devotee, nor are we going to let any other person or entity to stop us from addressing justice for Srila Prabhupada and his movement.

It seems to me, that there are a lot of folks out there that do not understand that those trying to poison the body and vani of Srila Prabhupada are Ravanas. Ravana dressed himself as a Sannyasi to get close to Sita to try to steal her. Of course, it was not the real Sita. But still, to give the proper example, Lord Rama and Laxman and Hanuman ji, did not compromise with Ravana and allow that he take Sita in a any way, for even a moment. They became determined to attack Ravana in fact. How can Lord Rama allow even a few seconds of Ravana to enjoy Sita?

In the same way, these Ravanas as Srila Prabhupada called the usurpers of the Gaudiya Matha, also dressed themselves as devotees to steal the worship of Srila Prabhupada. Are we in any different situation than Lord Rama, and we should allow their stealing to go on? Of course not!

Followers of Srila Prabhupada that have some ksatrya genes, can not tolerate and will not drop the ball on the poison issue. The poison issue is one of the best weapons we have to confront the Ravanas. In Vedic war, warriors wait to release the proper weapon according to time and situation. The poison issue is among the very best weapons we have to discredit and show who these Ravanas really are to the whole world. To show that the bulk of the current ISKCON is built on a foundation and basis of the most evil, violent criminal acts done by Ravanas againt Srila Prabhupada.

Only the worst of Ravana types would try to destroy the body of a pure spiritual master like Srila Prabhupada via poison and then try to destroy his teachings by changing his books - philosophy, etc. The Ravana based society, said in court that Srila Prabhupada was not the author of his books, but a hired "ghost" writer. therefore, they had the right to change the books as they saw fit!

Who in their right mind who has a little common sense will agree with this evil argument? So many around the world feel there should be NO compromise with these Ravana types! The service of investigating and exposing the evidence and the suspects, is not being done whimsically. The best forensic labs in the world are being contracted. For example. Nityananda dasa prabhu, got hair of Napoleon, who is well known to have been poisoned with arsenic and had it forensically compared with the arsenic content found in Srila Prabhupada's hair. Sure enough, similar lethal amounts of arsenic were found in Srila Prabhupada's hair. How can anyone expect at least some of Srila Prabhupada's followers to just sit idle and do nothing about this most violent attack? I guarantee you, it won't happen, no matter what.

I have the experience, that when devotees and general ISKCON supporters and other regular people, when shown and educated that they tried to kill Srila Prabhupada's body, and are still trying to also kill his teachings, they practically at once, turn against the Ravana based society and start supporting us. Of course, we teach them that this type of attack is nothing new or part of a destructive cult. We make it clear that is part of the culture of Ravanas to try to attack if not kill, Abraham, Joshua, Solomon, David, Jesus, Mohamad, Lord Krishna, Lord Caitanya, Srila Prabhupada and other such mahajanas.

I have also noticed, that the members of the Ravana based society, if they don't turn to assist us almost at once in many cases, after they get the information, they will tend to not oppose us so much. They actually start to feel fearful. They start to say., ok, you preach and we preach with "no" offense. This is because they see our fearless determination and know that if they don't stop harassing and blocking us, we will expose in the mass media if necessary all the deviations including the poisoning.

This my practical experience. But to do this, we have to be fearless and determined and do as we warned them we would do. A soft sentimental approach, does not work with Ravana types. They have to see our determination and will to go ahead with our bold exposure as we warned we would do. In this way, they may back down, because they know that if people find out that there is vast evidence Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by these bogus leaders, devotees and people in general will turn against them. Hopefully you will understand and appreciate this view.

The poison issue has helped many people understand the Ravana take over, and has helped a lot in India and it is working well in other places all over the world as well. It sure helped spread the sympathy for and teachings of Jesus, although more and more people understand now that Jesus was not killed. So Lord Krishna I think is using the grossest of violence against Srila Prabhupada, to make him more famous and for people to have more sympathy for him and for people to study his teachings more.

Interpol may one day put suspects who tried to poison and kill Sirla Prabhupada's body and teachings in jail. Many followers of Srila Prabhupada think this would be a good positive thing.

So according to the propensity of service devotees have, nobody can stop those who believe in justice and are willing to do some practical service for justice for Srla Prabhupada and his movement. Others who don't want to expose directly due to different propensity, can at least totally neglect and not support, advocate, give donations to, eat with and visit, those who are suspects in trying to kill the body and teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

They should try to understand and appreciate the great value being done for justice at great risk at time, by courageous devotees. At least, they should not get in the way and obstruct and discredit our program against violence and for justice for Srila Prabhupada, as is the case in the poison issue. I hope the above helps devotees better understand the value of the service of devotees that simply can not help themselves to fight for justice, due to their natural different propensity of service. I also hope these courageous devotees are supported by many as such support is badly needed. Thanks for your attention.

Mahatma dasa


  1. Ya Idiot! Ya dont know WHO killed Prabhupada do ya?

    [PADA: Yes, we know who the people are who are whispering.]

    Let's say it was Tamal, as a lot of people think it was.

    [PADA: OK. Lets say its Tamal, so he was ALSO the mastermind of the bogus guru appointment. If he is the ring leader of the poison issue, and ring leader of the bogus appointment, then we clobber two big deviations in one stroke.]

    Well Tamal is DEAD!

    [PADA: But the guru process he master minded is still in operation? The poison complaint is still not widely known yet?]

    Krishna arranged nicely for him to die on the way to the airport where he was used to being treated as big guy. In fact those were his famous last words, either f** or s***, I don't know I heard both stories. My point is you don't know who tried to poison Prabhupada, and there is no way on earth to prove who did it other than to say maybe Tamal and his co horts. That's not going to get you a conviction, and without proof that will hold up in court DO NOT TRY TO ADMINISTER JUSTICE ON YOUR OWN. That is what happened at New Vrndavana, devotees thought they were above the law and the ksatriyas administered their own brand of justice. The only problem is they were wrong. DEAD wrong!

    [PADA: I am not interested in what the India courts say, the courts in India are corrupt and that is why they are often supporting the bogus GBC gurus in the first place over there. What we are doing is going direct to the court of public opinion, we want people to know that the criminal take over of ISKCON has a root cause, We want people to know what Srila Prabhupada said, that he was being given poison.

    We do not care what other people think of his statements -- or don't think of his statements, we want more people to know what was being said in 1977 by Srila Prabhupada. Whether or not Jesus being crucified can be proven in court does not concern me one iota. We want the devotees of Srila Prabhupada to know what he said, and that is what we are doing, making it available. If people like it, good, if they do not like it, also good, That's what Srila Prabhupada said, he made a poison complaint, and we think his words are important, and so do many others who agree with us. We do not need a court conviction, we need people to understand what he said and why he said it. What is your plan to deal with this issue? ys pd]

  2. WYATT: If a utama adhikary, a spiritual master etc, can grow old and due to the old age, he has to leave his body -- then certainly he can be effected by the intake of poison. The point is -- did Srila Prabhupada's disciples gave him poison? Well, here is the answer that Srila Prabhupada himself gives: "Prabhupada conversations, November 8th, 1977, Vrindavan." --------------------------------------------------------------------- Kaviraja: Ye Maharaj ye kotha ap kaise bola aj ki koi bola hai ki poison diya. Ye apko kuch abhasa hua hai kya? [Oh, Maharaja, today, how did you say that someone told you that you were given poison? Did you feel something like that?] Prabhupada: Nahi aise koi hai bol jo dene se aisa hota hai. Sayad koi kilab mein likha hai. [No, someone said that it happens (symptoms) if it is given. Perhaps it is written in some book.] Now compare this with the explanation given in English to Tamala Krishna Maharaja later that same day. Tamala Krishna: Srila on

    [PADA: Sorry Wyatt. This was cut off here. But yes, Tamal later told Satsvarupa that Srila Prabhupada "wanted us to give him something to make him disappear" (he wanted to be poisoned). This is found on an old audio tape published by Isa das, and the audio is on his site. Tamal also said that people blamed him for killing Srila Prabhupada, so there was some preliminary discussion going on way before we got to it in public. One of the poison whispers "Jay --- God-d*mm*t Jay" has been surmised as being a reference to Jayadvaita, whose karmi name is also Jay Israel. He was apparently the only "Jay" in the area at the time. ys pd]

  3. @"The poisoning of Srila Prabhupada is a transcendental pastime that must be understood as such in as much detail as possible" Poisoning of Srila Prabhupada is a transcendental pastime? What an idiot is this? He should write on New York Times - Poisoning of Srila Prabhupada is a transcendental pastime... Very good preaching! In Bhagavad-gita Krishna says, surrender unto me and you're protected. Now another upstart says, wait, poison acts. They poisoned Prabhupada and Krishna just watched how TKG administered poison. And the writer of this is a Mahatma? Ok, PADA invited this man to teach how poison kills a pure devotee. Very good preaching! Go on with the good work!

    [PADA: So, you are saying Jesus was not crucified? You sir, are an idiot! ys pd]

  4. @"But yes, Tamal later told Satsvarupa that Srila Prabhupada "wanted us to give him something to make him disappear"" Right, now you state that Prabhupada wanted medically assisted suicide with poison, this is getting really insane?

    [PADA: I did not state that, Tamal stated that, this would be his cover in case the poison issue became public, we did it at his request. We did not say this, Tamal said this?]

    Please don't go by direct sense perception. Prabhupada says everything in his books. Devotees is protected always, poison doesn't act. Now a gang of rascals teach that Prabhupada was captured by poison. This has to be stopped.

    [PADA: Jesus was not crucified, it does not ever occur that pure devotees are attacked? You must be taking too much happy weed. Sorry, pure devotees can be attacked, are attacked, are even -- crucified. This is well known to everyone, ooops, except you! We need to stop preaching that Jesus was crucified, because then Satan is in charge? Umm, nope, that is not how most people view this. ys pd]

  5. @"what was being said in 1977 by Srila Prabhupada" Prabhupada says millions of times that a pure devotee is protected by the Lord's Sudarsana chakra.

    [PADA: You are preaching that Jesus was not protected, Satan won? Not sure what your point is?]

    *** Now some moron states, wait, what if Krishna was dancing with the gopis and forgot to protect Prabhupada, therefore the poison did act?

    [PADA: This is what the atheists preach, that Jesus was not protected, Satan is more powerful than God.]

    *** Hm, sleep tight, atheist. Your Godlessness is not supported by scripture.

    [PADA: You are preaching what the Satanists are preaching, that God did not protect Jesus, Satan has more power than God, because God could not protect Jesus from Satan.]

    *** God is there 24/7 to personally protect His pure devotee. You simply make out of TKG&co mega powerful demons who could kill Prabhupada. Whereas in fact, TKG and his friends were powerless neophytes. Stop turning TKG into a more powerful demon than Hiranyakasipoo. Give credit where credit is due. Stop pushing TKG on the pedestral of biggest demons of all times. There will be people who conclude like that - because of your propaganda!

    [PADA: Well Judas is credited with helping to kill Jesus, that is not putting him on a pedestal,its just stating what occurred at the time. Are you saying the poison complaint is not valid (which is what the IRM says)? Not sure what your point is, at all. In any case, you have avoided explaining the poison complaint statements from Srila Prabhupada. You need to actually comment on his direct statements. ys pd]

  6. I am one whos glad the poison problem is known. I say thanks Mr. PADA for making this public, Why would I say this? Because this makes everything else after 1977 clear. I also agree that Jesus had only one Judas, while we have 11 Judas. Why? Because Kali Yuga increases since the time of Jesus. Now we have more Judas than Jesus had. I agree Srila Prabhupada was attacked, his movement was attacked, his books were attacked, his children were attacked, his devotees were attacked. That is the best way to understand what happens in ISKCON. I do not see any better explanation, because there is none.

  7. @"I am one whos glad the poison problem is known." Thing is that yes, Prabhupada states there is poison. However, Prabhupada never says that he is unable to counteract that poison.

    [PADA: We never said different? You are arguing with yourself?]

    You jump to conclusion that Prabhupada and Krishna Himself were helpless to do something.

    [PADA: If you want to discuss any of this you have to quote exactly what he said and what we said. He and us never said the above, you are arguing with yourself. You have to quote exact statements, if you make up what we said, or what he said, then you are arguing with yourself. ys pd]

  8. Well Pada what is your point then? If poisoning Prabhupada didn't do anything to him what's the problem? Did you wish the poison DID act? Because you seem to try to ruin everything Prabhupada ever did. You criticize his disciples to no end for staying in ISKCON. You critiicize the gurus for making those who left ISKCON leave. You say there isn't enough laxmi due to lawsuits yet YOU are the one coming up with new plans for lawsuits day and night. YOU appear to be the demon here, and I'm not saying that for anyone to attack you, it is just a fact. You seem to actually relish exposing the faults of others and this is not a Vaishnava quality, rather a devotee looks inward to find his own faults. Most of the poison givers if there ever were any are dead and gone, and when Prabhupada said poison he might simply have meant his disciples weren't cooking properly for him. You always take things out of context.

    [PADA: Thanks but, most devotees and people in general believe our version of the history of all this, that is why we are consulted for media stories and devotees write us privately all the time telling us various horror stories, asking us questions, asking for clarification and etc. If our version is wrong, then fine, you are free to present your version. What is your version? Srila Prabhupada said he is being given poison, the people in the room are whsipering about giving him poison, and so on. We have an understanding of that, what is yours? You cannot simply say our version is the wrong version, and not give us what you believe is the correct version? This is not allowed in Vedic debates, you cannot chop the opponents views, and not present the actual and correct views. Its not allowed. What really happened here, you tell us. And you have to show us the correct version of the history with citations, quotes, excerpts from the 1977 conversations and etc. -- which is what we did, we cited the actual conversations. We need to see you cite all this material, and give us the better understanding of it, you failed to do that. That means our version is being more and more accepted simply by default, because you have not presented any alternate. Show us the alternate view, in an elaborate position paper with citations, as we have done, and we will review it right here in public. ys pd

  9. * Ok here is my alternative version. Prabhupada was leaving his body. I was in the room. Someone said Prabhupada thinks he has been poisoned. I asked Prabhupada, and he said no, but go along with it to see what happens. So I walked back to where Tamal had the tape recorder and I whispered, "The poison is going down." The tape recorder was turned off. "Why are you saying that?" asked Tamal. "Because Prabhupada said to" I told him. "I'm getting in on that" Tamal said and he started saying his own things. Prabhupada had his plan. I couldn't understand it back then. Now I do.

    [PADA: Like we said many times before, there has not been a better explanation. The above is a good example of an "explanation" that makes no sense at all -- thus our version is being accepted by default. Any alternate version to our version has to go through the entire conversations line by line, as we have done, and offer a better explanation, line by line.

    You'd need to make a detailed position paper including all the quotes, whispers and etc. as we have done. Otherwise, you are floundering with a few partial few pot shots at our version. That will not be accepted as anything more than whipped up knee jerk sentimentalism, and not a solid position paper and counter proposal on the topic. ys pd


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