PADA: Thanks prabhu, where is the proof ISKCON's and Hrdayananda's web sites promotes gay marriage? Well check this out, its from their site! Yes, Hrdayananda has been doing this for years. No, the GBC has not removed him for doing this. Yes, homosexual pedophiles have caused havoc in the ISKCON schools run by these same people, with reports of the molesting of hundreds of children.
No, I am not against gays in general, but we need to keep the gay agenda separate from religion. Yes, ISKCON will sue us for using the name of ISKCON, but not sue people who are using the name of ISKCON to promote gay marriage, homosexuals as acharyas etc. Yes, this means the entire ISKCON is promoting gay marriage since the GBC of ISKCON is allowing this agenda to go on for years together, using the name of ISKCON, under the banner of acharyas of ISKCON and so on.
I also have no idea why Bangalore courts have not objected to this agenda, the people who are suing Bangalore are promoting gay acharyas, gay marriages and so on, yes this needs to be explained to the public so we can separate the real ISKCON from these bluffers. ys pd
http://iskcon.us/niscala-devi-dasi/gay-marriage-iskcon/
Gay marriage is a commitment to love and serve
There can be platonic love in a gay relationship, just as much as in a heterosexual relationship, and it is exactly platonic love that marriage is there to encourage — to be committed to lovingly support each other in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad times, etc. It is a non-devotional, lusty and Kali-yuga interpretation of marriage that assumes it to be just about sex. Marriage should be encouraged because implicit in the contract there is a mutual commitment to love and serve. Illicit sex should be discouraged, which means sex for lust only. Licit sex is not about lust at all, but about producing Krsna-conscious kids — which, ironically, are not produced by sex but through the loving guidance which any spiritually minded couple can give.
The purpose of marriage is not sense gratification but spiritual realization, which comes about through cultivating loving relationships and ridding oneself of all traces of exploitative mentality, sexual or otherwise. Therefore, the grhastha ashrama is an ashrama. Even when it is not centred on spiritual development, the commitment to serve another person “through thick and thin,” through all types and times of difficulty, requires huge amounts of tolerance, forgiveness and empathy — all qualities necessary for attaining enlightenment.
This is not stressed in our movement, however, and Urmila prabhu’s article is a logical product of this problem. Generally, devotees see the grhastha ashrama as a step backward from brahmacarya, when it is actually a step forward, and a very large one. We are missing the point.
Gay marriage should be encouraged in our (ISKCON) society
and in the wider society as well
The point is not to extinguish lust, but to transform it into love — love for God and all that is His — which is everything animate and inanimate. When great devotees forgo the grhastha ashrama, it is not because it is a fallen status; it is because the hearts are so all-encompassing that they do not want to be limited in their loving service to only spouse and family. Most of us have to get to that point by starting small, but we are meant to expand. That is why married couples are enjoined to always open their doors and hearts to the world outside their homes, by offering hospitality to strangers, treating them as being as good as Narayan, and to always shout out into the street, “Is anyone hungry?” before taking meals themselves.
For these reasons, gay marriage should be encouraged in our society and in the wider society as well. It is not about encouraging illicit sex, which can and does take place in- or outside of marriage; it is about encouraging the sublimation of selfish lust into selfless love. As we know from our philosophy of parakiya bhava, forbidden alliances hold far greater attraction for the soul than the socially sanctioned love of married union. Generally, they are obsessional and completely unrealistic. We see the forbidden beloved through rose-tinted glasses, or, to put it in the common vernacular: “The sun shines out of their ass….”
This stops the instant we start living with them, realizing that, just like everyone else, they can be annoying, frustrating and argumentative. When we get over the disillusionment period, we come closer to truth, reality. When we forgive them for all their faults, tolerate their shortcomings, we grow within in the qualities that make us very dear to the Lord. That is the goal of marriage, in spiritual terms. In material terms, it is doomed from the start, for all the lusty reasons we are drawn to a person — their beauty, power and wealth — are taken away by time, and we are left with nothing to draw upon other than our own inner qualities of love for love’s sake — the causeless service attitude.
Don’t assume gay relationships are materialistic
We assume people to be their bodies, so on that assumption, we assume that their relationships are entirely materialistic. To assume such an evolution to be possible only in heterosexual relationships and not in homosexual ones is a diversion from reality, as there are no facts to support such an assumption, and it is based also on the misidentification of spirit with matter, which means it an assumption based on an assumption.
We assume people to be their bodies, so on that assumption, we assume that their relationships are entirely materialistic or, as Urmila puts it so artlessly: “illicit sex.” Seeing others to be their bodies, and not spiritual souls, not only wreaks havoc in our own spiritual lives and those of our readers and disciples; it does a grave injustice to all the great souls whose lives are surrendered to the Lord, even while their bodies are attracted to other bodies of the same gender. Despite the hurtful attitudes of the devotees in this movement, and despite being seen by some to be sinful, they do not give up their determination to serve the Lord. Such a fiercely loyal devotion is nothing short of admirable, and we should fall at the feet of all who serve under such debilitating conditions. To offend them by innuendo, attitude or speech only hurts our own devotional creepers.
It may be argued that Urmila prabhu is not indicting gay devotees but governments that portray gay relationships as normal. That is true, but in her indictment, she is equating illicit sex with gay relationships, which is a false equation. And why shouldn’t governments give the message to kids that it is okay to have two daddies or two mommies, given the amount of bullying and social exclusion that gays and their kids have to tolerate and which so often, tragically, ends in suicide? When kids see other kids as “not normal,” this is what happens. It is the duty of the government to protect its citizens. Children are the most vulnerable of all.
Focusing on ridding ourselves of the negatives such as illicit sex is like telling the mind not to think of ripe, juicy watermelons. The mind does not respond to “do not,” as it is an active principle. If we instead engage the mind in thoughts of Krsna, how He is dwelling in the hearts of all and waiting to receive our love, then we focus on the positive. All living beings, whether human or not human, straight or gay, are His parts and parcels. They are not “illicit sex” but divine objects of our devotional service attitude, devoid of any sense of bodily identification. Being thus situated, our worship of Krsna in the Deity form, or the chanting of His name, melts our hearts. Not being situated thus, we may chant or worship for lifetimes without any effect, for we commit offences to His dear devotees, who sometimes appear in unfamiliar bodily circumstances.
About Latest Posts
- See more at: http://iskcon.us/niscala-devi-dasi/gay-marriage-iskcon/#sthash.27nSchw4.dpuf
No, I am not against gays in general, but we need to keep the gay agenda separate from religion. Yes, ISKCON will sue us for using the name of ISKCON, but not sue people who are using the name of ISKCON to promote gay marriage, homosexuals as acharyas etc. Yes, this means the entire ISKCON is promoting gay marriage since the GBC of ISKCON is allowing this agenda to go on for years together, using the name of ISKCON, under the banner of acharyas of ISKCON and so on.
I also have no idea why Bangalore courts have not objected to this agenda, the people who are suing Bangalore are promoting gay acharyas, gay marriages and so on, yes this needs to be explained to the public so we can separate the real ISKCON from these bluffers. ys pd
http://iskcon.us/niscala-devi-dasi/gay-marriage-iskcon/
Gay marriage is a commitment to love and serve
There can be platonic love in a gay relationship, just as much as in a heterosexual relationship, and it is exactly platonic love that marriage is there to encourage — to be committed to lovingly support each other in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad times, etc. It is a non-devotional, lusty and Kali-yuga interpretation of marriage that assumes it to be just about sex. Marriage should be encouraged because implicit in the contract there is a mutual commitment to love and serve. Illicit sex should be discouraged, which means sex for lust only. Licit sex is not about lust at all, but about producing Krsna-conscious kids — which, ironically, are not produced by sex but through the loving guidance which any spiritually minded couple can give.
The purpose of marriage is not sense gratification but spiritual realization, which comes about through cultivating loving relationships and ridding oneself of all traces of exploitative mentality, sexual or otherwise. Therefore, the grhastha ashrama is an ashrama. Even when it is not centred on spiritual development, the commitment to serve another person “through thick and thin,” through all types and times of difficulty, requires huge amounts of tolerance, forgiveness and empathy — all qualities necessary for attaining enlightenment.
This is not stressed in our movement, however, and Urmila prabhu’s article is a logical product of this problem. Generally, devotees see the grhastha ashrama as a step backward from brahmacarya, when it is actually a step forward, and a very large one. We are missing the point.
Gay marriage should be encouraged in our (ISKCON) society
and in the wider society as well
The point is not to extinguish lust, but to transform it into love — love for God and all that is His — which is everything animate and inanimate. When great devotees forgo the grhastha ashrama, it is not because it is a fallen status; it is because the hearts are so all-encompassing that they do not want to be limited in their loving service to only spouse and family. Most of us have to get to that point by starting small, but we are meant to expand. That is why married couples are enjoined to always open their doors and hearts to the world outside their homes, by offering hospitality to strangers, treating them as being as good as Narayan, and to always shout out into the street, “Is anyone hungry?” before taking meals themselves.
For these reasons, gay marriage should be encouraged in our society and in the wider society as well. It is not about encouraging illicit sex, which can and does take place in- or outside of marriage; it is about encouraging the sublimation of selfish lust into selfless love. As we know from our philosophy of parakiya bhava, forbidden alliances hold far greater attraction for the soul than the socially sanctioned love of married union. Generally, they are obsessional and completely unrealistic. We see the forbidden beloved through rose-tinted glasses, or, to put it in the common vernacular: “The sun shines out of their ass….”
This stops the instant we start living with them, realizing that, just like everyone else, they can be annoying, frustrating and argumentative. When we get over the disillusionment period, we come closer to truth, reality. When we forgive them for all their faults, tolerate their shortcomings, we grow within in the qualities that make us very dear to the Lord. That is the goal of marriage, in spiritual terms. In material terms, it is doomed from the start, for all the lusty reasons we are drawn to a person — their beauty, power and wealth — are taken away by time, and we are left with nothing to draw upon other than our own inner qualities of love for love’s sake — the causeless service attitude.
Don’t assume gay relationships are materialistic
We assume people to be their bodies, so on that assumption, we assume that their relationships are entirely materialistic. To assume such an evolution to be possible only in heterosexual relationships and not in homosexual ones is a diversion from reality, as there are no facts to support such an assumption, and it is based also on the misidentification of spirit with matter, which means it an assumption based on an assumption.
We assume people to be their bodies, so on that assumption, we assume that their relationships are entirely materialistic or, as Urmila puts it so artlessly: “illicit sex.” Seeing others to be their bodies, and not spiritual souls, not only wreaks havoc in our own spiritual lives and those of our readers and disciples; it does a grave injustice to all the great souls whose lives are surrendered to the Lord, even while their bodies are attracted to other bodies of the same gender. Despite the hurtful attitudes of the devotees in this movement, and despite being seen by some to be sinful, they do not give up their determination to serve the Lord. Such a fiercely loyal devotion is nothing short of admirable, and we should fall at the feet of all who serve under such debilitating conditions. To offend them by innuendo, attitude or speech only hurts our own devotional creepers.
It may be argued that Urmila prabhu is not indicting gay devotees but governments that portray gay relationships as normal. That is true, but in her indictment, she is equating illicit sex with gay relationships, which is a false equation. And why shouldn’t governments give the message to kids that it is okay to have two daddies or two mommies, given the amount of bullying and social exclusion that gays and their kids have to tolerate and which so often, tragically, ends in suicide? When kids see other kids as “not normal,” this is what happens. It is the duty of the government to protect its citizens. Children are the most vulnerable of all.
Focusing on ridding ourselves of the negatives such as illicit sex is like telling the mind not to think of ripe, juicy watermelons. The mind does not respond to “do not,” as it is an active principle. If we instead engage the mind in thoughts of Krsna, how He is dwelling in the hearts of all and waiting to receive our love, then we focus on the positive. All living beings, whether human or not human, straight or gay, are His parts and parcels. They are not “illicit sex” but divine objects of our devotional service attitude, devoid of any sense of bodily identification. Being thus situated, our worship of Krsna in the Deity form, or the chanting of His name, melts our hearts. Not being situated thus, we may chant or worship for lifetimes without any effect, for we commit offences to His dear devotees, who sometimes appear in unfamiliar bodily circumstances.
About Latest Posts
- See more at: http://iskcon.us/niscala-devi-dasi/gay-marriage-iskcon/#sthash.27nSchw4.dpuf
Thanks prabhu, Yep, you are right, the molester acharyas program, and their clones and biggest shouting us down supporters like Prahlad are being exposed so badly, even some of the GBC is having to back away from their biggest henchmen. Yes, this proves that PADA's program is a success, we have exposed their agenda so badly, even the "moderates" on the GBC are being forced to back away. Yes, that proves PADA has forced them to address this agenda infiltering into ISKCON. Yep, that's right. Our program of exposing this agenda is working, they are being forced to clean house, agreed. ys pd
ReplyDeleteTO PADA: "They are being forced to clean house, agreed." Are you kidding? They won't clean anything and never care about any outside comment. Problem with gay people is that they are lusty without end and the whole things hasnt anything to do with serious stable relationship. These folks are narcissistic, selfish, stuck in the bodily concept and - hate children. Why out of a sudden they rush towards ISKCON is only because this movement became a heaven for these guys. This was of course not the case when Prabhupada was here and everybody had to work hard 18 hrs per day. Now they have this kind of wellness retreat spirit at all those big temples and this is an invitation for people in bodily concept. On the other hand this might have been staged in order to sound the death knell for this movement. To make ISKCON totally lose its credibility as spiritual movement. In order to destroy a spiritual movement it has to be done from inside. So this is whats happening and as usual since 30 years PADA can ...
ReplyDelete[PADA: They are destroying themselves. Anyway, our commentaries since the late 1970s on their deviated programs have been getting lots of readers and views over the decades. For example the harerksna org site started in the 1990s was getting a million hits a month for quite a long time and its still very popular. Other sites and blogs are now giving the same message, and the HKO site has been linked to at least 80 other sites.
Meanwhile, other independent sites have popped up all over the place preaching basically what we are preaching. So our program is having an impact on the organization and its leaders -- whether people admit or not. Meanwhile, our Prabhupadanuga idea is being accepted by an independent Prabhupadanuga effort which is creating an independent preaching platform, such as we have in Bangalore, Sunnyvale, Vancouver and so on. All these places are getting on board our idea of promoting the worship of the acharya in their preaching,
So our influence is spreading on two levels: (A) Exposing the bogus messiahs and (B) Creating independent Prabhupadanugas programs. Its all going forward simultaneously. We keep hearing from victims all the time and they are appreciating our works, they will in turn preach to others etc. So we are getting more wind in our sails, and now that ISKCON is officially promoting gay marriage on an ISKCON web site, they are losing any shred of credibility they may have had.
In any case, Srila Prabhupada did not approve of the gay marriage program for his society and movement, if they want to get married elsewhere that's not our problem, but it should not be done under the ISKCON banner and name, thats all. And the fact they are doing this in the name of ISKCON will bring their house of cards down all the more.
Does this destroy ISKCON? Not if we make another ISKCON, a better ISKCON, thats our job. We need to do something alternate, yes, their ideas are dying, that means its up to us to make a better process to save the conditioned souls. ISKCON dies if we let it, we need to re-build it the right way, thats our duty. ys pd
Lord help us if Urmila dd became the first 2/3 voted in female "guru" of present day Iskcon!
ReplyDeleteOh no! I clicked on the link for the TVOP Mayapur building presentation and Ravindra Svarupa and Bhavananda are in the video. Damn! Aren't those crazy a** guys ever going to go down? As far as gays are concerned, Srila Prabhupada wrote to one gay boy he had as a disciple, that if he acts gay with another disciple their advancement will be practically nil. nada, nothing, zip, zero. So whats with Hrdayananda trying to outdo Srila Prabhupada? Shut the heck up, we don't want to hear it anymore from you!
ReplyDelete====================
[PADA: Yep, Hrdayananda has been talking crazy like this for years. And his ideas are on an official ISKCON named web site, which says that ISKCON endorses gay marriages. And yet the rest of the GBC does nothing of substance about it. They'll sue us for saying gay marriage gurus are bogus, but never take down one of their own who supports gay marriages.
Yep, their whole GBC crew is implicated in this, for years if not decades.
Someone else wrote to say ALL these GBC people are all going in the direction of Satsvarupa, they are losing the last teeny marble rolling around their brains. They are so much in the modes of ignorance, they no longer even know what is good, bad, right, wrong, pure, rotten, bona fide or not bona fide, its all one for these people. They have become atheist mayavadis.
And this devotee said, its all due to their countless offenses they have made to the vaishnavas over the years, and now they are at the stage of total ignorance, buddhi nasa, their brains have fallen out. At this point, at least according to shastra, they fall back to the material pool. Of course this begs the question, were any of them ever out of the material pool in the first place? Good news is, people are waking up, that was our purpose and its working.
Niscala devi dasi is writing for years at chakra.org where she get a red carpet. Now chakra.org seems to be put on a hold and Niscala dd seeks for other platforms.
ReplyDeletePreviously all her obsessive writings were always against Prabhupada's ritvik order. Now she comes up to strongly advice for allowing gay people to get married in ISKCON temples.
Always substantiating that she is a senior follower of Vaishnavism and an expert on Vaishnava theology.
At this point emergency signal should touch off - this lady might be rather a Christian trojan trying to turn Prabhupada's pure movement into a dump of Gomorrah, hotbed of sin.