Saturday, March 29, 2014

Krishna West -- Is A Pest (Krishna Kirti das)

[PADA: Krishna Kirti rejected his "GBC guru" Hrdayananda many years ago, and he is a contributor to the ONEISKCON web site. ys pd]


Great analysis by Krishna Kirti prabhu. Thank Krishna we have some thinkers.

Letter from Krishna Kirti das:
Dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Maharaja Hridayananda is concerned that ISKCON in the Western countries will fail because ISKCON is too steeped in Indian culture and is thus poised to fail for two reasons: a) our fixation on Indian culture means we have become enamored with things unessential to Krishna consciousness, and b) our fixation on Indian culture also practically prevents us from reaching out to most Westerners, who are not as receptive to Indian culture as we imagine.

Maharaja therefore believes that in order to make ISKCON successful in the West, it is necessary that we keep Western culture and "add Krishna" to it. By focusing on what is essential, we will be once again focused on principles, and we will not unnecessarily alienate the people we are trying to reach. Maharaja is correct in his assessment that the mainstream of Western society thinks ISKCON odd and (with more Indian participation), "Asian", not "American" or "European".

Yet ISKCON in Srila Prabhupada's own day was wildly successful despite the dress of his disciples, their food, and other cultural differences they maintained against the mainstream. More importantly, organized opposition against ISKCON in Srila Prabhupada's day did not put forward funny dress or Indian food as their primary reasons for opposing us. Instead, their reasons primarily identified and targeted our fundamental principles. That their opposition was to principles, not details, was made clear in Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita, vol 6, in the chapter "Chant Hare Krishna and Fight".

Prabhupada said that the more the opposition created turmoil, the more Krsna consciousness would become famous. He also reasoned that people were reacting to his very strong preaching. 'I condemn everyone,' he [Srila Prabhupada] said, 'that they are all dogs and hogs. And the United Nations I call a pack of barking dogs. It's a fact. And in Chicago I said, 'All women, you cannot have freedom.' So I became a subject of great criticism" (SPL 6.7, pg 218).

And also,
Ramesvara: "But this is their argument, that the standard in America is that you become learned in different fields--science, music, art, and literature. This standard of culture and education is coming from the idea of the Renaissance in Europe. But in our Hare Krsna movement we are isolating ourselves from these things and simply reading one set of literature--Krsna."
Prabhupada: "This other is not culture. As soon as you change, that means it is not culture. It is mano-dharma, mental concoction. yes, we want to stop your nonsense. That is our mission. Those who are intelligent, they have taken, and you also take."

Ramesvara raised the objection that Krsna conscious children are not prepared to go to the public chools and universities, and Srila Prabhupada replied that they were being saved. "But what if they want to change later in their life?" asked Ramesvara.

"They have become Krsna conscious from the very beginning," Prabhupada replied. "That is the perfection of life. They are perfect from the very beginning of their life. And you are going to school in the college, but you are becoming most uncivilized--like cats and dogs, become naked and having sex on the street. So what is the value of that education? Stop all these colleges and universities. As soon as they are stopped, it is better for human beings."

If Maharaja Hridayananda's thesis is correct, then Srila Prabhupada should have failed miserably. His movement should have died from the get go. But quite the opposite happened. The historical record shows that we are not opposed merely for our dress and cuisine but for our principles as well, and accordingly our success was (in those days) that we stood strictly by our principles.

Maharaja is very likely correct that ISKCON will not become mainstream if we seem weird or alien to people in the Western countries, but he is wrong to think that the source of their misgivings are due to unessential externalities. They take exception to our principles as well. Hence, Maharaja is also incorrect to assume that Western culture itself is morally neutral. Thus if we move forward on this mistaken premise to re-engineer ISKCON to be acceptable to the mainstream, we will necessarily have to bring our principles in line with the mainstream as well. What Maharaja is proposing is therefore a Faustian bargain. In the effort to become popular, and "loved" by everyone, we become irrelevant, spiritually bankrupt.

So in this regard, here is recent letter from a lady named named Maggie Gallagher, who is a well-known anti-gay marriage activist and thinker. Moreover, she is held in high regard by leaders in the pro-gay marriage movement. Commenting on what she sees as the inevitable, and total, success of the pro-gay marriage movement in changing public opinion, she notes that people who believe in the traditional meaning of marriage will not be left alone. They will be challenged.

'What I see, as I suspect you do: powerful corporations, elite institutions are all lining up to protect and proclaim the dignity of gay people. Small numbers of unusually devoted Christians are just trying to feed their kids. I do not see who is benefited really by putting them out of business. Melissa has five kids, her husband (I was told) now hauls garbage. I understand it would be a rude shock to realize the woman happy to bake you cupcakes doesn't want to bake your happy wedding cake, but I really don't get deciding to put her out of business. It is abstract justice versus real concrete and unreasonable harm."

Even large religious institutions are being challenged on their fidelity to gay marriage, or lack thereof. In 2006, Catholic Charities in Boston closed a 100+ year-old adoption service because the state of Massachusetts would not grant a religious exception to their new gay marriage laws. Rather than comply with the law, they decided to stick by their principles and close their adoption service.

ISKCON and its members are not going to be left alone, either. People are going to ask us about our view of gay marriage, and they will judge us, regardless of what kind of clothes we wear or cuisine we eat. For this alone, and on account of related principles, ISKCON will not be mainstream for the foreseeable future, unless we also bring our principles in line with the mainstream as well.

This actually offers a better explanation for why Hridayananda Maharaja recommended that ISKCON advocate gay monogamy in the first place. He works with many people for whom gay marriage is a litmus test for morality. If you want to advance a career in academia, you cannot be opposed to gay marriage. 

That is how they are. Maharaja wouldn't have had hardly any standing with them unless he also brought some of his principles in line with theirs, which he apparently has. Maharaja's need to be accepted by the academic community is likely the main motivation behind his philosophical paper on consequentialism and homosexuality. 

Maharaja wrote his paper on consequentialism because he felt he needed to be accepted by this community, and he wanted to prove his moral bona fides to them on the gay marriage issue. That is also why he opposes certain descriptions of Draupadi and Yudhisthira that his secular colleagues are likely to object to. If Maharaja could not resist bringing his principles in line with the mainstream, certainly many other devotees are also susceptible to the same pressures. 

In this regard, Ms. Gallagher writes, "A lot of people are going to want to escape from the moral disapproval and really sometimes the open hatred directed at you for maintaining the classic view of marriage -- the view that I would say goes something like this, at least in my head and heart: We are born male and female, our bodies contain a call to come together in love to make and raise the next generation as their mothers and fathers. Yes, many people, for a variety of reasons some, under their control and many not, are not going to end up being married; we should be as kind to one another as we can manage."

This is the view being discarded and many people will try in a variety of ways to reconcile the new culturally dominant marriage narrative with their religious views and their views about human nature.

This is a real challenge all of ISKCON's preachers will have to face in the here and now and for the foreseeable future. Hridayananda Maharaja's response was capitulation. He doesn't see it that way, of course, but that is what it is. And this is what ISKCON's members, especially its leaders, will have to face: should ISKCON be "successful" by bringing its principles in line with the mainstream, or should it be content to be a minority that sticks by its principles. The choice is easy to state but very difficult to make--especially when faced by the potential of life-long ridicule and ostracization. No preacher or individual in ISKCON can indefinitely put of this choice, and it will come soon.

In response, ISKCON take the harder path, Those of us who are ISKCON's members should resist capitulation to the mainstream and be prepared to live by our own principles, much as how the Pandavas lived by their religious principles regardless of what hardship it brought them. The very pious story of the Pandavas and their tribulations shows that if we take care of dharma, dharma will take care of us. But if we sacrifice our principles, then we have sacrificed everything.

It is for this reason that Krishna West should be opposed, if it is a success, it will be a success because it aligned its principles with the mainstream, not merely its clothing and cuisine. It will not become popular otherwise.

Your servant, Krishna-kirti das


  1. Prabhupada said America is blind culturally while India is rich in culture. I see the disciple here has surpassed the guru. Krishna kirti can see what his guru cannot, that Indian culture is what is wanted here, not hamburgers hot dogs etc.

  2. As usual new ISKCON generation never mention with one word what happened past 35 years where GBC appointed their experimental test gurus. All this is brushed under the carpet, that GBC appointed so many failing gurus that ISKCON's reputation as pure spiritual movement was lost. Christianity won.

    Either these folks are totally tamas, ignorant, or they are rascal. They still consider the fall-down of 45 gurus as papam, trivial offence, whereas this is not papam, sin, but aparadha. Falsely posing as God's direct representative cannot be atoned even by applying death penalty, cutting your head off.

    Now this last remaining guru of the legendary eleven figures that his deviant, fallen comrades created such chaos that he doesn't want to present himself anymore with typical Vaishnava dress. People in general are informed by PADA about ISKCON's fallen guru's criminal records and Hridayananda swami says, wait, I don't want to get lumped into their mischief. I change my dress because I don't want to be considered as having poisoned Prabhupada, having sexually abused children, having shot Sulocana, having left with tons of temple laxmi. I don't want to be part of all this by showing up in the same dress like Bhavananda, Kirtanananda, Jayatirtha, Harikes.
    Somewhat understandable isn't it?

    PADA would report 24/7 for years about ISKCON gurus and their criminal activities in Vaishnava dress. Now someone says, sorry folks, this Vaishnava dress is so much flawed, afflicted with negative activity, especially this heinous execution of Sulocan. I have a problem with this because I never approved of all this.

    PADA tenor, no, no, please wear Vaishnava dress so people are reminded of all this poisonous era? Wonder how PADA explains their logic behind this? Agreed, PADA argues well this man is a false guru. That he didnt support ISKCON's child abuse is ok, but still he should wear this dress so people can know that he is part of a criminal cult? Just like felons in prison also wear a special outfit so people can know these are thugs?

    So there is actually no basis to attack Hridayananda swami on the dress codex. Hridayananda swami rather changes dress in order to not be identified with those who poisoned Prabhupada. Kindly try to see things in context. This naughtiness to always take things out of context like above, Krishnakirti, who got reinitiated by Bir Krishna Goswami is rather smokescreen policy and diverting attention. Thanks for spending time with us!


  3. Hrdayananda das "Goswami Acharyadeva" is supposed to wear sannyasa dress if he is indeed a sannyasi. Otherwise he is Godasa. Let him change his name to godasa and be honest, leave ISKCON altogether, give back those who got initiated by him due to the lies spread that Prabhupada made him a guru because he was completely pure, and start from scratch. He can start by scratching his behind and see how many people run up to him after that in order to smell the nectar he has obtained from there. on Krishna West -- Is A Pest (Krishna Kirti das)

  4. For years Hridayananda Swami was wearing sannyasa dress. He was inspiring people from countries he had never visited himself.

    Don't forget that while doing all this his fellow godbrothers would saw off the branch he was sitting on.

    They turned ISKCON into a finally convicted laughingstock. Convicted not because of public chanting but of sexually mass abusing their own children.

    When taking off saffron dress because people started spitting, figure he is yet another pervert child molester he is called names without end by his former supporters. So much to the definition of what is duty of loyalty and feeling of solidarity.

    From worldly point of view, everyone can get together to elect a leader, but the correct process is that the Lord Himself indicates which devotee is filled with love for Him, and He makes him the acharya. This is the process approved by scripture.

    In sum time will tell if HDG has enough power of endurance. Anyone who is bona fide acarya, he can create his own disciplic succession. Since followers of Srila Prabhupada are trained to be humble devotees nobody wants to start his own mission.

    1. Anonymous, what angers devotees is when gurus get the creds for doing the preaching in their zones when it is the humble struggling devotees who deserve it and HDG Srila Prabhupada. That is why we are more than glad to see these pretenders going down. They puffed themselves up by kicking out their honest god brothers and sisters and ruled with lust, not love. Now they are getting the fruits they so richly deserve, what comes around goes around, and they are suffering.

      His own disciplic succession you say? First he has to follow Prabhupada's, then we will see about that! The only reason he could have inspired devotees who never saw him is because they could worship the legend falsely propagated by the myth, the reality is just too hard to bear. He literally REEKS of false ego, and the man is a fool in the truest sense of the word.

  5. What Hrday needs to do is be honest for once in his life! Why can't he just admit he isn't an acharyadeva? Why can't he state honestly he is NOT an uttama adhikari and stop cheating devotees who still think he might be? Why does HE take credit for starting anything at all? Why does he take credit for inspiring people who do not know how he really is?

    He has fallen down in the past. An uttama never falls down. He had to be saved from lusting over his female friend or disciple I do not know her name but I heard about it. He lusted over her long time. Can't ANY of the devotees in ISKCON ever admit they fall down in public? Or is it just something they all hide among themselves? When devotees hear Hrday exposed himself to a woman, or even took drugs at Mayapur do they think, "Well, I would say something about it but he knows what I have been caught doing so I can't?". That seems to be about the gist of it, "isn't it".

  6. Howard Resnik aka HH Hridayananda swami's ancestors came from Czechoslovakia, Prague and built up a new life in USA. Řezník means butcher. So his background might be a meat factory. That he came so far to meet Prabhupada and become a disciple is at least something.

    Your demanding he should be a pure devotee, mahabhagavat is exaggerated and too fast. Of course he should't have accepted the title of spiritual master. When you ask him about this these folks all say the same thing, GBC pushed me into this role, I didnt want to end up like all my godbrothers who were kicked out, etc.

    He will immediately tell you frankly that he is not guilty of anything. Always tried as good as he can and at one point was cornered by intellectuals who forced him to question Prabhupada on some points. So he couldnt present counter arguments and surrendered. Thats where he is right now, neckbeads gone, brahmin string gone, brahmin underwear gone. What can be done?

    People asked him if he is also a pedophile like Bhav, or a sexual childmolester. Thats why he changed dress. So what is your answer? Is this man guilty or is GBC guilty? Don't forget, as soon a guru falls thousands of rank&file are victimized. Hridayananda swami might be the last straw. When he quits the whole movement crashes? Then all the ritivks will enter and quarrel 24/7 till the whole ISKCON stops to exist forever.

  7. Howard Redneck born in a family of meat eaters also blames all the rest of the gurus for making him one too? They all did, didn't they? Haven't each and every one of the dirty eleven from '77 said they were the only ones who did not want to be gurus but were told they had to in order to save the movement? When Howie quits the whole movement will crash and burn? LOL don't make me laugh!

  8. There cannot be any tinge of misbehavior in one who claims himself to be an acarya, or guru. Quote: The Science of Self-Realization. Choosing A Spiritual Master, p 59: Reporter: But the bad gurus--
    Srila Prabhupada: And what is a "bad" guru?
    Reporter: A bad guru just wants some money or some fame.
    Srila Prabhupada: well, if he is bad, how can he become a guru? [Laughter]
    How can iron become gold? Actually a guru cannot be bad, for if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru.You cannot say "bad guru." That is a contradiction. What you have to do is simply try to understand what a genuine guru is. The definition of a genuine guru is that he is simply talking about God---that's all. If he is talking about some other nonsense, then he is not a guru. A guru cannot be bad. There is no question of a bad guru, any more than a red guru or a white guru. Guru means "genuine guru." All we have to know is that the genuine guru is simply talking about God and trying to get people to become God"s devotees. If he does this, he is genuine.-(End quote)
    Except for some external appearences, I challenge anyone in Iskcon to show me one, just one among any of their leading figures (be they "gurus" or GBC) who fits the above description given by Srila Prabhupada. Hare Krsna.

    1. Dear Anonymous,

      Gaura Govinda Maharaj fits that description.


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