http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-14/editorials11517.htm
[PADA: Notice that most of Rocana's writers never mention the name of their guru? Neither did Wyatt? Neither did Jaya Madhava tell us who we should worship instead of Srila Prabhupada? They say that our worship of Srila Prabhupada is the bogus posthumous deviation, but they worship no one and nobody. They never tell us who they are promoting as their guru? They have none! Even Jaya Madhava cannot tell us who is the guru he is promoting? That means they would rather have people worship no one and nothing than worship a bona fide pure devotee. ys pd]
[PADA: Notice that most of Rocana's writers never mention the name of their guru? Neither did Wyatt? Neither did Jaya Madhava tell us who we should worship instead of Srila Prabhupada? They say that our worship of Srila Prabhupada is the bogus posthumous deviation, but they worship no one and nobody. They never tell us who they are promoting as their guru? They have none! Even Jaya Madhava cannot tell us who is the guru he is promoting? That means they would rather have people worship no one and nothing than worship a bona fide pure devotee. ys pd]
If someone says that Prabhupada is his guru he's kicked out from Rocana's platform. Thats why nobody says anything on this important issue. Then there are those who have accepted ISKCON and Gaudiya-matha gurus. Those who are living guru. These freakos consider Prabhupada as dead. They are being told not to mention the names of their gurus. Otherwise their gurus reject them. Present living gurus consider Rocana's portal as - ugh!
ReplyDeleteIn other words, Rocana's website is like Gomorrah, hotbed of sin, nobody can state that Prabhupada is our guru and nobody can state that Radhanatha or Hridayananda is their guru. In sum this website seems just a presentation of Rocana's prestige.
Dear Puranjana dasa, you miss us, don't you.
ReplyDelete[PADA: You failed to explain why this person has no guru?]
Anyway, we have already told you couple of times that we are followers of Srila Prabhupada.
[PADA: Except when Srila Prabhupada says he will live forever from his books, you said that is bogus ritviks idea? You do not follow anything he said?]
We do not belong to this priestly class.
[PADA: Well that;s the problem, Srila Prabhupada said he wanted a brahmana class of devotees, and you are against that. What class of devotees are you creating then?]
Or as you people call yourselves as the ritviks.
[PADA: Ritvik is the term used by Srila Prabhupada. Now you are saying Srila Prabhupada is bogus for using the term ritvik, you are always attacking him. We did not use this term, we are repeating the term he uses.]
Nor do we do post samadhi ritvik initiation and claim ourselves to be Srila Prabhupada's disciples.
[PADA: There you go again, saying Srila Prabhupada is post samadhi, post mortem, posthumous, no one describes their guru as "the dead and gone post person." So you are saying we are worshiping a dead body, posthumous. All of us say the guru is eternal, you say the guru is dead, that means you are dead.]
Srila Prabhupada has set the precedence as to how and who he claims to be his disciples when he was in his vapuh form.
[PADA: He said he would live in his vani, not his vapuh.]
Now vapuh form is no longer available.
[PADA: So all of the devotees that Srila Prabhupada initiated, and they never met him, or rarely met him, are bogus? My wife was initiated by a ritvik priest in London, now you are saying, she was not initiated because she was given initiation by a priest? You are attacking the whole program we have going on since the early 1970s ....]
He has left the planet. Common sense should tell you that.
[PADA: His vani has left the planet? Nope.]
Knowing that his time was short to complete his training of his disciples, he left behind his vani in the form of his books for his initiated disciples and his followers to follow. And he formed the society called Iskcon for association and the Gbc for its management.
Therefore, note unless you are dumb, we are simply his followers who are following his directions to perform bhakti yoga or devotional service in the absence of a qualified.
[PADA: Wyatt you are a hypocrite, you said you are with us, you only follow Prabhupada, but you do not want anyone else to, you are an elitist. Sorry, we are going to give others Srila Prabhupada. And since you are saying he is a dead and posthumous person, you are an atheist. Srila Prabhupada says the people who declare God and guru as dead and gone are atheists. Thats you. ys pd]
Thanks prabhu, yes Wyatt never tells us where is his program, does he participate in any program at all, what is that program, who is the leader of his program, does his program have any temples, preaching, devotees etc., he never says nothing about his alleged program, so he is another bluffer. He has no program, and promoting the worship of the posthumous is not going to have any success, and he cannot admit that. Yes good question what is the program of Wyatt and why is he ashamed to tell us where it is, what it is, who is the leader and etc. All bluff.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the whole article.
ReplyDeleteWhere is Rochons practical practicing solution? Where are the physical followers of his dharma, what are they doing, where are they preaching, from which books are they teaching, how much prasadam are they distributing, how often and from which venues? How many street kirtans is his leading, where and how often. Rochon is expert in writing articles while pasting words to suit his illogic but where is he actually producing results based on his angle of vision? Srila Prabhupada continues to produce results and gain followers so called initiated or not. More wasted ink Rochon Prabhuji...so show us how your understanding is producing tangible results and compared those to Srila Prabhupadas results.
Ys Hasti Gopala Dasa
Right, we have a program in Vancouver that attracts people with nice kirtana, prasadam, classes etc. Rocana does not attend our program, he is against the Vancouver temple program, so he has nothing to offer no one, not even in his own home area. He has nothing and neither does his posthumous pada disciple Wyatt. Zero to offer. All bluff. ys pd
ReplyDeleteRead the below satire published in the Sampradaya Sun. I would rather call it "The Philosophical Comedy of the Foolish Ritviks in Ritvik Land ."
ReplyDelete[PADA: Except Rocana, and many of his authors admit that the Prabhupadanugas program is taking over, because they have no program. First of all, you need a counter program, they have none.]
My Visit to Ritvik Land BY: SHASTRA CHAKSUS DAS
[PADA: This is another imaginary person, who is this? Its Rocana writing and using different names as authors. No one ever heard of half the authors on his site because its Rocana using pen names, like "Balavidya." No one ever heard of these people, no one ever heard of Sastra Caksus das, they do not exist.]
I was looking for something different—something besides gossip, mundane socializing, Hindu car blessings and tyrannical leaders with used car salesmen smiles—so instead of visiting the local ISKCON temple for the Sunday Feast I paid my first visit to the newly opened Ritvik Land on Main Street.
[PADA: OK, so they are admitting we have at least some temples, Rocana, Wyatt, Kailash, they have no temples, no preaching, no nothing. We have a nice home program in Vancouver which Rocana boycotts, so he is against the Vancouver ISKCON temple program leaders, he is against our program, he has no program of his own, so he is not interested in making temples and devotees, and neither is Wyatt.]
I found it to be clean and well organized, and besides, it’s the tallest building on the block! At the door I was greeted by a pious-looking Mataji. “Hari bol, please come in. I’m Ritvik-lila devi dasi.” That was a refreshing change. Soon I would find that everything else was also changed … though in a way Ritvik Land is much like ISKCON with its chanting, puja and discussions about spiritual life. When it came time for
[PADA: Ok so we have chanting, pooja, programs and etc. Rocana has none. That means Rocana forgot the teaching of Lord Chaitanya to spread the chanting around to others. He is not doing that, his program is not doing that, Wyatt never tells us where he is doing that, Rocana has no followers so he has to invent names of authors and supporters, because he has none. And neither does Wyatt. Neither of them can produce the location of their program and its wonderful preaching, because there is none. ys pd]
Dear Puranjana dasa, why is it so important for you to know of what my programs are?
ReplyDelete[PADA: That is the standard established by Srila Prabhupada not me. He often asked, where is the Gaudiya Matha's false guru's programs? He often criticized, they had no preaching, they were just ringing a bell in the temple, showing the deity business, etc. That is his standard, where is your program? We are asking the same question he always asked. The Gaudiya Matha could not answer, and neither can you.]
*** Who is the leader of my program.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada always asked these same questions, who is their authority? Who is leading that is leading this or that program? What is their name, what is their track record, what is their position, what is their process, what is their program ... he always asked these questions. These people could not answer in the 1970s, and you cannot answer now. History repeats.]
*** Whether I have any temples, whether I do any preaching or have any devotees? That is not important.
[PADA: OK, so having temples, preaching, and making devotees is not important, what is important is that Rocana should make up names of writers because there is no actual people who support his program?]
*** Let me tell you what is important for you to know. I do not preach ritvikism for it is bogus. I do not do post samadhi ritvik initiation for that is bogus. I do not claim to be Srila Prabhupada disciple for following his directions to practice bhakti yoga for that is no quite right. I am simply his follower and I just follow the directions which has been given by Srila Prabhupada to go back home, back to godhead. Its not that difficult to understand what Srila Prabhupada is saying for he makes a whole lot of sense about this material world, about us the eternal spirit souls, and about the eternal spiritual world beyond this world- Vaikunta and of course not forgetting the supreme personality of Godhead, GOVINDA. When Srila Prabhupada was present here.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada's first instruction to us -- is to preach Lord Chaitanya's mission and save others. And for that -- he established that we need to make: Krishna organizations, Krishna temples, Krishna kirtanas, Krishna books, for example we are now going to print hundreds and thousands of Bhagavad Gitas. Your idea is that we should not be doing these things, and we should be nothing like you and Rocana are doing? Why should we stop all this process and do nothing to save others? You are forgetting the whole process he established, he wanted temples, books, kirtana, making devotees, and so on and so forth.
You said you are following his orders, nope, you just said none of this is important, that means you defy his orders to build these things. And he said these things are most important. And his orders are -- to preach -- like we are doing and not sit around harassing the preachers like you are doing. Again, you have simply proved that you have nothing to offer, no program, no book printing, no nothing, and that is why you say its not important, except, that is almost all that Srila Prabhupada ever talked about?, i.e. making programs, printing books, making temples, making devotees etc. you are tossing out about all he said. I know i was there many times, he talked all the time, where is the program, where are the books, where is the kirtana, you are discarding 999999.99999 percent of what he always discussed, that means, you are not his follower. His followers are making these programs because, that is what he ordered his followers to do. ys pd
( The missing part) When Srila Prabhupada was present he accepted the initiated as his disciples regardless of whether he performed the initiation himself or through his appointed senior disciples on his behalf.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Right, he never met most of his disciples in person. And what is actually connecting to a guru anyway? Its to follow his orders. Many, maybe most of the 1970s initiated disciples fell away, some deviated badly. Meanwhile, many of our newer people are following high standards. That means real connection to the guru is to accept his vani. You keep insisting that its connection to his body, well many of the people who spent the most time with "the body" ended up being the worst deviants. Your "body" idea does not work, our idea, that people connect by following is not only the right idea, its working practically. You idea has failed, the people connected to the body thought they had realizations, nope, that comes from the vani.]
He gave the spiritual names and gave the order to initiate and recorded the initiated names in his initiated disciples book.
[PADA: And he said that the persons initiated by the ritviks would continue to have their names in the book, correct, and he also said do not change anything after I am gone, that means the ritviks would continue. Anyway, the real connection is via the vani in any case, our people are more connected because they follow better than many who had association with the vapuh.]
He called them his disciples.
[PADA: Right, we have better disciples than many original initiates, our people follow better -- disciple means discipline. We have better disciples in many cases.]
The ritviks, they self appoint themselves as Srila Prabhupada's representatives much like the Iskcon appointed gurus though in Iskcon they don't do self appoint.
[PADA: No, Srila Prabhupada said all of his followers should become brahmanas (ritviks). He appointed his followers to that status. We did not say we should become brahmanas (ritviks), he said that? You are confusing him with us? Anyway, you have self appointed yourself to say that the vapuh followers are better than the vani followers, you mean you think homoexuals and molesters are superior to our people who are not? That means you think deviants are superior to actual followers.]
The ritviks through this self appointed representatives perform initiation claiming to do so on Srila Prabhupada's behalf even though Srila Prabhupada did not gave them such instructions.
[PADA: He told us to preach on his behalf millions of times, over and over and over and over, he said you are students, you can only preach on my behalf. You are also preaching on his behalf, or are you saying you are not? If you are preaching on his behalf then you are following our system.]
When Srila Prabhupada was present he gave orders or instruction by communicating through letters to his senior disciples to perform initiations on his behalf.
[PADA: It really does not matter who got a letter or who did not, the real test comes with who is actually following, and our people are. Your vapuh people are not always following, so your idea that people connected to the vapuh are authorized automatically, does not work. Our idea works, we say the actual followers are connected. Your idea has lead to homosexuals posing as acharyas because they have "a letter." The letter is not proof of realization?]
There are no such thing with these self appointed ritvik representatives and yet the ritviks claim they are.
[PADA: So you are preaching on his behalf, saying you have no authority to preach on his behalf? I think that means, you should not speak at all then? Why are you preaching on his behalf, saying you are bogus to do so? You are arguing with your own shadow. If you are not authorized to preach on his behalf, why are you writing anything? If you are preaching on his behalf, then you are following us. ys pd]
Dear PADA
ReplyDeleteHow is it that ISKCONites seem to be real stupid people? I mean, not only stupid but really foolish folks?
Formerly we thought that devotees are "creme de la creme", the most advanced souls on this planet.
Now it turns out that behind this mask of "transcending material existence" there are folks who were in their past life rather tyrants, cruel macho men, people with kleptomaniac disorder and professional criminals.
This is also what western astrologers say when checking birth charts of ISKCON leaders.
Thats why ISKCON vehemently rejects western astrology and took to humbug Jyotish. Western astrology exposes these people.
As you mentioned all these ISKCON properties in the West who were collected by meanwhile kicked-out poor hardworking devotees are being used now to make money. This is of course right, these buildings are sitting empty and are encumbered with mortgage. Obviously they need all this money to finish TOVP.
Question is, when TOVP is finally completed, how does all this money return in order to clear these mortgages payable? If this money doesn't return all these Western properties will be collected by banks, bank collection procedure? What is PADA's expert's opinion to this scenario? Did Prabhupada approve that temples are mortgaged bigstyle to finance other projects?
Agreed, ISKCON's total congregation of rank&file was replaced by newcomers from 3rd world countries who of course first of all want to become citizens of 1st world countries using ISKCON as footboard. ISKCON so to speak became a social services department for the poor, "Refuge of the Destitute". Why is it then that they critize ISKCON Bangalore for their prasadam program to feed poor school children?
Latest statement by ISKCON's new crowd: "Reason why we don't listen to Prabhupada is that we can't understand what he's saying."
Thanks for clarification, is this the explanation, the whole dilemna of a failed reformation? Is PADA aware of this futile attempt, trying to teach refugees driven by poverty not to use ISKCON as gateway drug to achieve material advancement?
Dear Puranjana dasa, your goodself, your good godbrothers ( Rocana dasa, Hansadutta dasa, Yasodananda dasa, Gbc, Madhu Pandit dasa and many others etc, etc, etc) all seem to have different opinions on what your spiritual master Srila Prabhupada has taught, his instructions, his advises and his directions.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Well we have still not understood what is your position? Are you preaching on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, acting like us, or not? It really does not matter who has what opinion, the Prabhupadanuga preaching is moving forward on the principle of preaching on his behalf. Rocana himself says that unless something else comes along and quick, our idea is taking over. We are winning by default, there is nothing else to compete with us.
Rocana has the same opinion as the GBC, he supported the guru reform and he says we need to complete it, that is illusion, the guru does not need reform. Are you saying you agree with Rocana, the guru needs "reform" from being a sexual pervert? What do you agree with? You never tell us what is your idea?]
Why is this so? Is it because there is a flaw in this practice of vani by his disciples or is there a flaw in the practice of vani itself.
[PADA: Who agrees with you? And since you cannot even state any example of where your idea being followed by anyone you can name, it seems no one agrees with you, you cannot even name one person who does? At least we have some fabric to an alliance. You have so far not even identified one soul who follows your system? It seems you are the king of nothingness.]
Would it not have been better if it was vapuh where one can receive instructions or learn the scriptures directly from the guru.
[PADA: Right, but you said you are one with us, you also follow Srila Prabhupada. That means you are with us, in the absence of vapuh follow the vani. You yourself said that is what you follow.]
*** If one had doubts or do not understand what is being taught one can ask from the guru and hear direct from the mouth of the guru, his explanations. There can be no misunderstanding no misinterpretation etc. Hare Krsna
[PADA: Right, there is no real misunderstanding, you are doing what we are doing.
You are acting as an agent, we are too, you are doing exactly what we are. So our idea is spreading, we are telling people we are agents, and they should also act as agents, just like the Christians, they all witness on behalf of Jesus, and that has made them the biggest religion on the planet. So we are growing by using the same principle, everyone should preach on his behalf ... in any case, you are doing the same thing, you follow Prabhupada, so you are an elitist hypocrite by telling others they cannot do what you are doing. That means you think you are more special than anyone else, you can follow, others cannot, this is utter hypocrite. Srila Prabhupada said, you Gaudiya Matha elitists followers are -- envious of guru, they do not want others to get the mercy. Envy of the acharya. ys pd]
WYATT: Dear Puranjana dasa, is it correct what anon-26/3/2014-6.51 am is saying about your so called ritvik followers and their program. Not any different from the Iskcon that you condemn day in and day out. But then, why are you silent on this?
ReplyDelete[PADA: The Prabhupadanugas are preaching, neither you nor anon has any proof you are engaged in any preaching program. You are the one who is silent, the Prabhupadanugas are preaching, you are not. You are supporting Rocana, he avoids our program, and the ISKCON program, and he has no counter program, sour grapes, he has nothing and neither do you. You have been silent the whole time, you have not addressed our question, where is your counter program? And if you have none, then as the karmis say "nothing is as nothing does."]
This what happens when there is no vapuh. With vani they fool around but they talk as if they are first class devotees. Hare Krsna
[PADA: Well right, you are all talk. There is no substance because your idea cannot be applied, and its not being applied, its has no practical impact because nothing impacts nothing. You are the silent one here, we asked you to identify your program, and the only comment we get is you support Rocana's site, the person who is saying Sridhara Maharaja is bona fide? Yes, all talk, no substance. ys pd