I read on a devotees profile the other day how he was foolishly glorifying Gour Govinda Swami as an Uttama-Adhikari. It's well known that Gour Govinda didn't follow Srila Prabhupads Rtvik instruction, rather he opposed that instruction, and he accepted a self appointed position as guru of ISKCON under the GBCs vote system, and he accepted their go ahead. When I mentioned this to the devotee Tamohara Dasa he privately messaged me "Bullshit. Go do your research, this is not even true." Then blocked me from any further debate on the matter. Poor Tamohara Dasa sounds a little unhinged. Anyway, Here's how Gour Govinda was cornered into his confession...
A reward was posted in a full page ad in the Vrndavana UP newspapers, $108,000.00 cash reward money for any ISKCON guru who can show the Nam Hatta an original, signed document dated July 9, 1977 or later from Srila Prabhupada's hand, naming any person or persons specifically appointed to the position of full guru-acharya, authorized to initiate disciples as his own after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada.
Failure on the part of any guru means he must publicly give up his unauthorized guru title and return his disciples to the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, the sampradaya acharya and founder of ISKCON.
Previously (August, 1977) a challenge and reward of 500,000 rupees was offered by ISKCON to Dr. Kovoor, a prominent scientist of Sri Lanka, to prove his claim that life is generated by chemical interaction. Dr. Kovoor was invited to a public meeting, where he could bring his chemicals and produce life by creating a cat, mouse, a mosquito or any other plainly visible living creature from inert chemicals. Dr. Kovoor failed to win the Rs. 500,000 prize. He died a few months later, publicly humiliated.
Now ISKCON is being challenged by Nam Hatta devotees world-wide: "Produce the written document, signed by Srila Prabhupada, ordering any devotee to act as guru-acharya of ISKCON."
Submit documented claims to any Nam Hatta centre near you.
Nam Hatta World Sankirtan Party
P.O. Box 157 * Geyserville, CA 95445 * USA
Dated: June 1993
NOTE: This REWARD is still unclaimed by the many Iskcon Gurus as of the Year 2009
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This is a real offer. It's not a joke. There is no expiration date. Bhima das backs it up, so if any ISKCON guru wants money, all he has to do is bring proof and collect on it.
So far no ISKCON guru has dared to come forward to answer it. Some years back, Gour Govinda Maharaja disciples came to collect from Bhima in Singapore, insisting that their guru had told them that he had received a letter from Srila Prabhupada himself to become the acharya.
Bhima asked for the proof, but they had none. So a few months or so later, Gour Govinda Maharaja came to Singapore. Bhima went to the meeting, brought his cheque book, and after Gour Govinda Maharaja finished speaking his lecture, Bhima asked him, "So Maharaja, your disciples say that Srila Prabhupada personally gave you the order to become spiritual master. Can you please explain why you waited all those years until GBC appointed you to become guru? Why didn't you immediately act on the order?"
Gour Govinda Maharaja responded, "What is that? What is it?" So Bhima spoke up a little louder, "Maharaja, is there an order for you to become guru?" No reply. Again Bhima asked, "Did Srila Prabhupada give you the order to become guru?" Silence. Bhima raised his voice, "Is there an order?" Everyone in the room was shocked.
Maharaja was visibly stunned, and momentarily speechless. There was an uncomfortable pause.
He answered, "No order. No order. No order." Three times. He was red-faced and couldn't speak for 5 minutes afterwards, then asked the devotees to sing kirtan. A week later he passed away in India. Not since then has anyone else claimed to possess the required proof.
And in case anyone on this list wants to promote Narayan Maharaja as acharya, let him or her consider that Narayana Maharaja's own guru did not see him fit to become acharya even of that small math and handed it over to someone else instead, and Narayana, having nowhere else to go and nothing else to do, sat down there until some foolish ISKCON "gurus" turned to him looking to boost or prop up their own "uttama" qualifications.
He answered, "No order. No order. No order." Three times. He was red-faced and couldn't speak for 5 minutes afterwards, then asked the devotees to sing kirtan. A week later he passed away in India. Not since then has anyone else claimed to possess the required proof.
And in case anyone on this list wants to promote Narayan Maharaja as acharya, let him or her consider that Narayana Maharaja's own guru did not see him fit to become acharya even of that small math and handed it over to someone else instead, and Narayana, having nowhere else to go and nothing else to do, sat down there until some foolish ISKCON "gurus" turned to him looking to boost or prop up their own "uttama" qualifications.
Gaudiya Math self-appointed acharyas: Srila Prabhupada, August 16, 1976, Bombay (Conversations with Srila Prabhupada, Vol. 26, p. 59-60)
"If one remains always a servant everlastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.... You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated. And as soon as he thinks that "I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated," he's a rascal.... Jai Om Vishnupad!
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[PADA: Right. I also talked to GGM in person. I said we are going to promote the worship of Srila Prabhupada as the acharya. He said this is bogus, its not in shastra, because there is no "living person" in your program. Yikes! GGM said in essence, you are dead, there is no living person in your program! Amazing, he more or less declared that I am dead, there is no living person in our process! Sorry, all of the Prabhupadanugas are living, ... how can we say none of them are living?
"If one remains always a servant everlastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.... You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated. And as soon as he thinks that "I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated," he's a rascal.... Jai Om Vishnupad!
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[PADA: Right. I also talked to GGM in person. I said we are going to promote the worship of Srila Prabhupada as the acharya. He said this is bogus, its not in shastra, because there is no "living person" in your program. Yikes! GGM said in essence, you are dead, there is no living person in your program! Amazing, he more or less declared that I am dead, there is no living person in our process! Sorry, all of the Prabhupadanugas are living, ... how can we say none of them are living?
Oooops, yes, we are all living and preaching about our acharya. How can the living people who worship pure devotees "not be found in shastra" or worse, not be counted as living beings? The shastra is all about examples of people who worship pure devotees, that's all we ever find in shastra! GGM says we find no examples of people who worship pure devotees in shastra? What is that shastra? Show us any shastra which does not describe people who worship pure devotees?
And so what happened after GGM departed was -- that most of the GGM people ran after the phantasm of worship of yet another "living person," mostly Narayan Maharaja. We are not supposed to run around chasing after worship of this live person and that live person, we are supposed to become fixed on the exclusive worship of the pure devotee! In 1993 the GBC wanted to boot out Tamal and GGM stood up at that meeting and he said, we need to keep Tamal. We need to keep Tamal, the leader of the molester messsiahs program? Tamal stays, the main suspect in the poison case, as well as all sorts of molesters and criminals, they all have to stay, and we all have to leave?
Srila Prabhupada siddhanta, you need to inform some of your other friends that I also never said GGM was a homosexual or a child molester? What I said was, he was voted in at the recoronation of a known homosexual and pedophile posing as an acharya in 1986. Please read this carefully, what I said is that GGM was certified as a guru in 1986 at the recoronation of a known homosexual posing as an acharya. I never said he was fallen to that level personally.
I did say he supported the recoronation of deviants as Vishnupada acharyas, which is a direct attack and insult on Vishnu. Later on GGM said he was going to challenge the idea we come from Krishna's lila or sport (Srila Prabhupada's idea) next year at Mayapura. He died the shortly after saying that. GGM also said we cannot merely listen to Srila Prabhupada's tapes "sabda brahman does not descend from tapes." Ummm, the words of the pure devotee are sabda brahman, that means he never understood what sabda brahman is.
Srila Prabhupada also calls this process, "I did not hit you, my stick hit you." So GGM supported the molester messsiahs program, he was voted into their program 1986, right after that, his stick attacked us, and Sulochana was murdered by the GGM guru process. He was supporting the program that was beating and killing us, he may not have attacked us personally, but his stick and process did, that is what I said even in 1986.
Check the 1986 GBC report, they reinstated Bhavananda and voted in GGM. Anyway, thanks for coming out strong in defense of the worship of the acharya Srila Prabhupada. I am the servant of anyone who does that sincerely. You got em, why wasn't GGM the guru in 1978? He waited for years to tell people he got that order? This makes no sense at all, we all would have known is anyone had been ordered to be guru while Srila Prabhupada was here, Srila Prabhupada would have told us he had appointed a guru, whether GGM or anyone else. He never did. The GBC has at least appointed me to the post of "ISKCON's junk yard barking dog," which one GBC guru called me. ys pd]
When someone thinks that devotees like Tamohara pr, Bh. Peter, Bh. Mathias, Prahlad, Sri Mukunda, Kshamabuddhi, etc. can be convinced of anything what is not fitting to their present mindset you have to revise your reasoning. There is a class of devotees who are totally obsessed by pride and prejudice. Right there are men in the dress of Vaishnava who are a pedant, ignoramus, an idiot and a self-advertising duffer. Unless there happens a drastic change in their live these people rather reply like that, Tamohara: "I curse you to take birth next life as a dog. In the Names of Radha and Krsna, may you go to hell immediately, and your family with you."
ReplyDeleteThis is called Plutonic birthchart, self-opinionated, stubborn and rude. How such folks happen to take up the dress of Vaishnava is of course Prabhupada's mercy. On the other hand, how can such men with such rude behavior address people in general or officiate in responsible position of a Vaishnava society? So this is difficult. During Prabhupada they were kept under control only because Prabhupada was there. Very strong management required and vigilant observation.
"Gour Govinda Maharaja responded, "What is that? What is it?"
ReplyDelete[PADA: Gaura Govinda Maharaja did not announce that he had an order to be guru in 1978, this "order" was exposed later on. There is no good explanation for why this order was never announced to the society? If Srila Prabhupada had ordered someone to be a guru, where is the evidence of this order? And why can't we find any in 35 years?]
So Bhima spoke up a little louder, "Maharaja, is there an order for you to become guru?" No reply. Again Bhima asked, "Did Srila Prabhupada give you the order to become guru?" Silence. Bhima raised his voice, "Is there an order?" Everyone in the room was shocked................ A week later he passed away in India. " Wyatt - Some kind of a powerful yogi, this Bhima dasa must be. What powerful siddhi he must have. He raised his voice and GGM was stunned and a week later he passed away. The same Bhima dasa and his guru Hansadutta (not appointed by Srila Prabhupada) who got Srila Prabhupada books printed and made the GBC lose more than a million dollars by suing Hansadutta and Bhima, is now parading as a ritvik representative (Hansadutta) of Srila Prabhupada while Bhima dasa from being his disciple became his godbrother by becoming an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada after his departure from this planet. What drama! Wonder if he is still feeding his ritvik guru with egg on
[PADA: Right, Bhima was a great help in getting the original books printed, and we are even getting the Narayana Maharaja people to add a page to their site to expose these bogus books changes. Even they agree with us that the GBC is bogus to change the books. At least Bhima has enough sense to know that Wyatt and his GBC have no authority to alter the books of the acharya. ys pd]
Gour Govinda Maharaja says he got the instruction from Srila Prabhupada in early 1977 to accept disciples.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Srila Prabhupada would never have appointed a diksha guru without making that clear to the entire society. He would have said, here is the diksha guru successor to Krishna, and you should all support this, but he never said that. There is no proof that Gaura Govinda got this alleged "order." Of course I could also say that Srila Prabhupada gave me an order in secret and so on, its not something that Srila Prabhupada would have left un-announced, this was a major issue and he would have made that clear to all of the members of the society, this person will be initiating as a diksha guru after I depart, there is no evidence this order was given, nor would Srila Prabhupada create chaos by not telling all of us of this order for GGM to be a guru, without informing the society how this would be implemented.]
He said no, I want to be the tail, but Prabhupada said you have to be the head, without having your own disciples how will the Bhubaneshwar temple come about?
[PADA: How would LA temple go on without Ramesvara being the guru? This is a silly argument, the temples did not go on, the followers were disturbed. Most of the GGM disciples ran off to Narayana Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada was not making one guru for one temple either, this is ridiculous, the guru is the guru of the Jagata, where do we find there is the guru of a zone, or Bhubanesvara? Village guru, this was condemned by Srila Prabhupada. If he is guru, he is guru for the jagat, not the village.]
He had to be the leader, he was the only one who could stay, and he had to get disciple. No one else would do it. So why did he say there was a letter and deny it? The letter eluded somewhat to the instruction but was not direct enough to be called an "order", so he could not use it when the movement was shanghai'd by the 11 bogus ones. He tried but they outnumbered him 11 to one. As far as when and where we fell down from Srila Prabhupada referred to it as the Crow and fruit logic.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada says "we were all originally in Krishna's lila or sport." GGM said that is wrong, we originated in the Tatastha. Tatastha is not a place, it describes movement, the souls can move from spiritual world to material world, movement is not a place? A verb is not a noun? Tatastha does not exist as a place, it means we can move, there is no such place. GGM said that Gaudiya Matha Tatastha idea is correct, we originate in -- movement? This makes no sense.]
A crow flew away from a tree and a fruit fell from the branch. Some say the crow's leaving made the fruit fall down. Others said the fruit falling startled the crow into leaving. But Prabhupada said who cares? Better to chant Hare Krishna and on Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta speaks on GGM
[PADA: Right, if the acharya says we all originated in Krishna's lila or sport, then do not defy the acharya. If the acharya says Tatastha means motion and movement, then do not say its a place and defy the acharya. If Srila Prabhupada says gurus are not voted in, then do not get voted in as a guru, and so on. Yes, GGM should chant and not defy these things. ys pd
YOU FOOL! You do not know the history of anything that happened between Gour Govinda Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada!
ReplyDelete[PADA: I do not need to know what happened before 1977, after 1977 he supported the bogus GBC gurus and was voted in as one himself, at the recoronation of a known homosexual posing as an acharya. He was a compromiser. He stood up and said we need to keep Tamal as an acharya in 1993 at the GBC meeting. He supported these deviants. That shows what his relationship is to the parampara, he supported corruption in the parampara, which means he never understood it.]
When he joined, already the devotees were envious of GGM, calling him a new man. Prabhupada said you are the new men, GGM was BORN A DEVOTEE!
[PADA: It does not matter who he was, that does not give him a licence to participate in a corrupt GBC guru process. He should have told them that reinstating deviants is wrong, that reinstating Tamal was wrong, that guru voting is wrong, etc. Just because we were all pure at one time with Krishna does not mean we can support deviations later on. We have to keep earning out position all the time, its not an automatic pilot operation.]
Then when they all came to Bhubaneshwar they TOLD Srila Prabhupada to abandon the project. He chastised them all and told them to send in GGM. So they all left. Prabhupada whispered in his ear so his envious disciples could not hear. He told GGS there was a conspiracy among his disciples not to see this project through. Prabhupada gave many disciples instructions on becoming guru after he left. But no guru has ever written down an "order" for a new guru. This isn't a restaurant! Where do you see a bunch of "guru orders" WRITTEN DOWN in the sampradaya? Nowhere you fool! We conditioned souls cannot understand where we came from. GGM also said some people have come from the spiritual world on this planet. He said the sound vibrations ...
[PADA: He said that hearing from Srila Prabhupada's tapes means the sabda brahman does not descend, what is that nonsense? Its nonsense, plain and simple. I hear from Srila Prabhupada and know that I am getting sabda brahman from there, I do not need his atheistic theory that there is no sadba brahman there, this is atheist, the sadba brahman is there, I feel it and realize it. He has no idea what is the process of Vedic transmission, its from hearing, that is the sabda brahman. He has no authority to chop my connection to sabda brahman off with foolish theories. ys pd]
Dear Puranjana dasa don't do a chop job on my comments and then twist it around to mean something else. A friend of yours whose article you published and praised recently has this to say about you. Publish this comment in full if you have the balls meaning courage or don't for that means you are guilty as charged.
ReplyDelete[PADA: We are saying that molesters are not acharyas, and the result of your attacking us -- and thus defending that program -- has lead to perhaps thousands of children being molested. And you are proud your program has caused children to be molested by attacking our protest of your program?
Why are you saying I am wrong and thus chopping my protest of your molesting guru program? Why do you help that program by assaulting its critics? Same thing with our friend Prahlad, he says we need to shut down the protest of the child molester guru program and join hands with Bhakta das, the program that buries dead pedophiles in the holy dham. Prahlad is with the people who want dead pedophile carcasses to be polluting our holy dham, as one gurukulis said, Prahlad is one sick F***.
Why do you guys always help the molester messiahs program and want to stop us from protesting your program?
Now you are saying that I am a bogus gopi, so that means only us bogus gopis have enough sense to know that deviants are not acharyas, and that this has to be protested? That means you cannot even fight as good as us bogus gopis? But its worse than that, you want to check our protest of the molester messiahs, so they will flourish, and then children will get molested and dissenters will be assassinated.
Why are you for that program by being against its protesters?
You folks are all collectively guilty of causing these programs by attacking us when we protested these problems. At the present moment Wyatt's program says that the assistants of the gopis / aka acharyas are often -- engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. Why does Wyatt's program wake up every day thinking how they can assault, insult and attack the gopis with horrible attacks by saying the gopi assistant's group contains severe deviants?
For the record, I never said that deviants are "assistants of the gopis" like Wyatt's program is doing every day. When is Wyatt going to quit the gopi haters clubs? That is the real question. In 1977 the GBC declared that 11 deviant people are assistants of the gopis, that's the CURRENT gopi club that Wyatt defends NOW, why? Don't we know by now that is a devation? And now Wyatt says only bogus gopis like us and Sulochana had sufficient fighting prowress to take on the molester messiahs? That means, Wyatt has less fighting capacity than a bogus gopi? We have risked our lifes to fight your molester messiahs program Wyatt, and the reason our life is in danger is because you people say, we are bogus offenders, that is how you get Vaishnavas assassinated by calling us bogus demons. In sum Wyatt, you are a party of the Vaishnvava's murderer's association, you called us bogus gopis to get us killed, and you did get us killed by doing that, and you are still at it. You want to see dead Vaishnavas, thats who you are and nothing more. You said me and Sulochana are bogus gopis, to get us killed, you are devotee murderers. And you are just mad because we exposed you as such, and we had to get the police to protect us from -- you and your bogus gopi assisstant's guru program. ys pd]
Thanks Wyatt but you are quoting the Hari Sauri version of the story. Hari Sauri has been a big supporter of the GBC gurus all along, and he still is. Why do you always cite these people? This simply proves you are accepting the supporters of the molester messiahs program as your authority. Hari Sauri was not at the meeting, nor did he ever consult with those of us who were there? He has no idea what happened at the meeting, because he never asked those of us who attended -- what happened. You are citing the people who promote the molester messiahs program, that is clear and that is not a lie. Hari Sauri has never asked any of us who were at the meeting, what happened at the meeting. In any case, because Hari Sauri promoted people like Bhavananda as acharyas, there was a huge homosexual program going on. Why do you always end up in bed with these people? ys pd
ReplyDeleteYes Gour Govinda according to modern law is known as a co-offender. He may not have directly committed the fore mentioned crimes against those children of ISKCON, however, he went along with the perpetrators by agreeing with and following their bogus guru programme. And as far as GGM being born a devotee, so were so many ISKCON children who's horrible plight he ignored in favor of being "a Gaudy Babaji Company man" Gour Govinda was contaminated by his association with those putrid disobedient disciples just as the devotee Krtavarma was contaminated by his association with kamsa! Jai Om Vishnupad!
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada's Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:
ReplyDeletePrabhupada: "Discipline... Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must... That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya... sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya... These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that "Obedience is the first law of discipline," or something. They say, "Obedience is the first law of discipline"? So I am right? "Obedience is..."? That is the...
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that's more or less what it is.
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. "Obedience is the first law of discipline." So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.