The question of Karma (updated)

PADA: A devotee once told us he was going to go back to eating hamburgers -- because there is no karma in doing that. He opined: The cows that are born in the USA are already pre-destined to be killed and eaten, its their karma. So there is no sin in eating these cows because it is already their pre-destiny to die and be eaten.

We tried to argue, but he was so convinced, and he went off to eat hamburgers.

Shastra meanwhile says no, even if the cow is destined to be killed because its born in the usa, its still sinful to kill these "future hamburger" cows because -- we are not authorized to dish out karma to other entities, even if it is their karma to suffer and die.

Its a question of who has authority to impose karma on others? Even if we agreed that the children of ISKCON had some form of bad karma, and they were like cows born in the USA destined to suffer, its still not our position to create or allow that suffering to happen, its our duty to try to halt the suffering of others, especially if they are members of ISKCON, and even more so if they are defenseless children.

Allowing others to suffer then mainly becomes the bad karma issue of those who orchestrated the suffering (ok like the GBC guru's sabha), and those who stood by and neglected to protect the defenseless (by NOT helping people like us and Sulochana address these abuses to the children).

This is called collective (bad) karma, creating or allowing others to suffer implicates those who performed the evil deeds, or those who did not help (us) stop those evil deeds. Draupadi mentions that, she says the Dushasana party, and those who did not protest her victimization, are both implicated. And so all of them were later killed by Krishna for the crime of commission, and omission.

So even if its karma for someone else to suffer, we are not the authorized agents to orchestrate that suffering. We could also start to rob banks and argue, the bank has the karma to be robbed, ok -- but are we authorized to rob that bank, even if it has karma to be robbed?

No, we will be arrested, because its not our authority to dish out this karma to the bank. Therefore our understanding is, the children of ISKCON should have been protected, just as we as a society are supposed to protect the cows. If the children, or the women and the cows, are being victimized, then the society as a whole will suffer collective karma, and ISKCON is suffering from that collective karma for neglecting to protect these entities (and not helping people like us address the victimizing).

Thus, for some of the GBC crew / Narayana Maharaja crew / IRM / Bhakta das -- Prahald group to essentially say, the children being abused is a fine and dandy program because they are just getting their karma, who cares, is exactly the same ideology we were arguing with the man who went back to eating hamburgers.

OK, but even if the children had bad karma, are you folks the persons authorized to dish it out, or to suppress and cover up their being victimized as the IRM / NM / Bhakta das / Prahald types are doing, and to insult the victims by saying they deserved it? You are right if a woman is raped, it may be her karma, but then if we say to her, you deserved that, how will that help her?

Or will that make her suffer worse or even feel suicidal? Saying that you deserve to suffer, especially to children, is the worst form of abuse we can think of? We have to build their self esteem and tell them, no, you were victimized unjustly. This is commonly done in abuse therapy.

And if we tell victims of abuse, you deserve to suffer and die, is that not going to cause them to -- suffer and die all the more? If people are suffering and suicidal, how does it help them to say, you deserved that suffering? That will simply make them more depressed and suicidal? And that is why we opposed these people, and that is why they are upset with us. Of course Sulochana used to say that these people who are saying, so what its your karma, are merely brown nosers of the GBC gurus. He felt they were simply trying to paper over the crimes to protect the criminals, and oppress the victims. He is right.

In any event, we feel the only way to be free of karma is to worship the pure devotee, and avoid the false pure devotees. That has been the main sticking point we have had with the IRM, They wanted to form an alliance / compromise deal with these false pure devotees and oppressors of children, and stop us. That means, they are boosting the evil doers, and that is also a form of karma.

And so the IRM defends, even to this day, their idea that these false pure devotees are authorized to dish out karma. We say, they are not authorized, anymore than our ex-friend is authorized to eat hamburgers to give cows their karma. We have to be very authorized to give out bad karma to others, that means, only higher authorities are allowed to do that, not us mere mortals and neophytes.

So this is all part of following Krishna, we have to help the victims, and protect them from these folks who think they are authorized to give bad karma, and  / or to protect the evil doers giving bad karma as the NM / IRM / Bhakta das / Prahlad folks are doing. They are not authorized to give bad karma, or to protect the program of giving bad karma.

Many kulis thanked us for helping them, they said no one else even bothered to mention their suffering and suicides, in other words, we were among the few who said, -- its not your bad karma mainly, its mainly the bad karma of the adults who have created and allowed this.

We think that is true everywhere, the persons who get blamed for children abuse all over the planet are mainly the adults, not the children victims, and that is the right idea. Saying they got what they deserve, is called blaming the victims, just like our friend who now eats hamburgers, he blames the cows, ... sorry that will not work, its also this man's bad karma for creating or allowing the cows to suffer. ys pd