ANON: There seems to be a white elephant in the room, Iskcon is a failed experiment, Its over, it was over before ACBS left the planet. Gaudiya Vaisnavism was something that was and still is practiced in a home environment in a bengali village/farm environment. Once you take it outside of that simple real environment and place it into an institution like Gaudiya Math or Iskcon all sorts of weird things happen.
Quoting numbers of people and buildings is no measurement of spiritual success. Putting it simply not one single ACBS disciple has amounted to much in terms of spiritual impact on the world. They have all either left, been kicked out, murdered or sat in their fathers house and enjoyed the fruits of their fathers labour. For westerners trying to practice GV no matter how hard they try they will always be swimming against the flow, visit a small Vaisnava village and you will see how simple and easy it is for them. Why? because they are brought up in that culture and they have all of the support of the culture.
=============================
PADA: Village life in India has been deteriorating badly over the past decade for certain. We have seen some TV documentaries on how a number of villages have hardly any men, because the female babies have been aborted in such high numbers. There are a number of news accounts on things like -- farmer suicides. There are tons of articles on the internet about the ill effects of mass migration from villages to urban areas.
There are similar articles on how this migration is causing huge slums around urban cities. There is the now famous account of how the Yamuna river is getting polluted, and is having its flow shut down, creating a disaster for the rural areas downstream that depend on it for water. That same account is happening to other important rivers. There are accounts of "widow dumping" in places like Vrndavana. In other words, village life is not all that attractive these days, even for people in India, so there is a mass migration from the rural sector to the urban sector.
And that is one of the reasons the Akshaya Patra program has been getting so much support from important leaders in India. Apparently, giving children a meal every day keeps them in school, otherwise they would just stay home and / or work the fields. The government is not able to perform that function very well, so they are glad someone else is doing it. Of course, there are some enemies of the ritviks who want to shut this program down, and the result will be simply that these children will then not have any source of daily food. These enemies will not make another or better program.
Rural India, or even urban India, has all kinds of problems, we simply do not seem much example of "simple living and high thinking." There are of course a lot of people who sympathize with the Vedas and Krishna type ideas, but Srila Prabhupada said -- most of them are not very serious and they are sentimentalists. Then again, degraded Bollywood culture, Western culture, and "English rule" ideas are all over the place there as well. For the most part, the rural people are pious, but as they more and more flood into the urban areas, they sort of take on the Westernized urban culture of India. The reason they are fleeing these villages is, the program there is not working well due to a variety of reasons, for example encroaching influences of the cities (such as cutting off the river flow).
As for Vedic culture over there in India, for starters Westerners are not allowed in many temples there -- based on race. The dark skinned untouchables are also treated very poorly over there. Women as a class are not treated well at all, what with femicide (aborting female babies), burning brides, a huge rape problem -- and even a gang rape problem etc, ok at least there is some protest to their credit. Apparently, many female children are fed less than the male children, causing a high child mortality rate for females. All these issues can be found easily by tying in a few words in Google.
India's femicide problem, killing female babies, its going on all over the place and its not being protested much, or at all. And the result of killing the females is that there are now big crowds of men, as one CNN reporter complained, she was groped, mauled, grabbed in the most insidious ways etc. by a big bunch of men over there. OK, so killing the females makes a huge over proportion number of men, some villages are reported to be 95 percent men and hardly any women, no wonder then these men are getting crazy when they see a woman from CNN news.
Srila Prabhupada at least went outside India and he accepted people from every race, and he had them in his temples. That was never done before by these Hindu temple folks in India. His books have also been translated into probably dozens of languages and so on, the strict Hindus never liked that, they said we should not give Krishna to these lesser classes of race. Had we waited for these Hindus to bring Krishna to the West, we'd be dead by then.
At the same time its clear that the ISKCON program (as an institution) has failed for the most part. We have some newly formed small groups in different parts of the world, and we are building a sort of network or alliance, but its small and not too effective at the moment. We would agree with all that. Yet to say that village life in India, or urban life in India, is the superior program, is misleading.
We have seen some youtube kirtana programs going on with various Vaishnava type gurus in India, and lots of nice singing and so on, and thats really nice. However it seems that the overall culture is gradually getting buried in Bollywood movies, Western Industrialized employment, Western culture and Westernized Indians -- who simply cannot wait to move to the West. We have a number of friends from India, they watch cricket matches, eat meat, and they have little to do with Vedic culture these days. Of course, our temple in Sunnyvale is an exception, there are a number of very pious Krishna devotees from India there, but they are clearly the exception to the mass of Indians around the area.
We have some photos (not going to post them since they are not too decent) of some Indian women wearing very scanty clothes, and some very terrible Bollywood movie ads etc. from India, and this is of course the whole theme of modern India and its Bollywood culture and so on. The culture is in decline, and its affecting all sectors of that society, and its infiltering into the rural culture as well. The village life of India is a sort of helpful vestige or remnant of Vedic culture, but its not strong enough to impact the rest of India which is on a mad rush to become another Western country.
In any case, there are a number of exiled Krishna refugees all over the planet who will never give up on Krishna, with or without an official institution. We are mainly working with them, and our alliance is growing gradually. Village life in India, Gaudiya Vaishnava sects in place like Bengal, has almost no bearing on all our refugees, to state it simply.
Then again some local India authorities and village leaders around the Narayan Maharaja camp voted him as the "Yuga Acharya." At least so says his web site. Really? This is another problem with India, the main support for the bogus GBC gurus is -- in India. India needs to wake up and jettison these bogus gurus, as well as so many other hokey gurus that flourish over there. That would require real research into -- what is a guru, and so on and so forth, and for that we have to rely on Srila Prabhupada. He was not rubber stamping all kinds of people as Yuga Acharyas, he was telling us the real standards for these posts. In any case, we are going to move forward with Srila Prabhupada, with or without the ISKCON leaders, Gaudiya Matha, Village gurus, or whatever else there is out there.
Srila Prabhupada said, if he could make one pure devotee his mission would be a success, well he has made thousands of devotees, and at least some of them are following very purely. So his program has had success if we consider he was thinking one person would make it all worthwhile.
If anyone wants to research rural India and some of the problems there, here are a few starting point articles:
ys pd
Problems in rural India:
http://www.indianmba.com/Faculty_Column/FC579/fc579.html
Problems of migration from rural India to urban India:
http://www.fairobserver.com/article/problems-urban-india
Illiteracy in rural India:
http://eserver.org/courses/fall95/76-100g/papers/mekala/default.html
Lack of healthcare in rural India:
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/323723/maternal-morbidity-problem-rural-india.html
Migration to cities from rural India:
http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2011/01/rural-urban-migration-india/
=============================
PADA: Village life in India has been deteriorating badly over the past decade for certain. We have seen some TV documentaries on how a number of villages have hardly any men, because the female babies have been aborted in such high numbers. There are a number of news accounts on things like -- farmer suicides. There are tons of articles on the internet about the ill effects of mass migration from villages to urban areas.
There are similar articles on how this migration is causing huge slums around urban cities. There is the now famous account of how the Yamuna river is getting polluted, and is having its flow shut down, creating a disaster for the rural areas downstream that depend on it for water. That same account is happening to other important rivers. There are accounts of "widow dumping" in places like Vrndavana. In other words, village life is not all that attractive these days, even for people in India, so there is a mass migration from the rural sector to the urban sector.
And that is one of the reasons the Akshaya Patra program has been getting so much support from important leaders in India. Apparently, giving children a meal every day keeps them in school, otherwise they would just stay home and / or work the fields. The government is not able to perform that function very well, so they are glad someone else is doing it. Of course, there are some enemies of the ritviks who want to shut this program down, and the result will be simply that these children will then not have any source of daily food. These enemies will not make another or better program.
Rural India, or even urban India, has all kinds of problems, we simply do not seem much example of "simple living and high thinking." There are of course a lot of people who sympathize with the Vedas and Krishna type ideas, but Srila Prabhupada said -- most of them are not very serious and they are sentimentalists. Then again, degraded Bollywood culture, Western culture, and "English rule" ideas are all over the place there as well. For the most part, the rural people are pious, but as they more and more flood into the urban areas, they sort of take on the Westernized urban culture of India. The reason they are fleeing these villages is, the program there is not working well due to a variety of reasons, for example encroaching influences of the cities (such as cutting off the river flow).
As for Vedic culture over there in India, for starters Westerners are not allowed in many temples there -- based on race. The dark skinned untouchables are also treated very poorly over there. Women as a class are not treated well at all, what with femicide (aborting female babies), burning brides, a huge rape problem -- and even a gang rape problem etc, ok at least there is some protest to their credit. Apparently, many female children are fed less than the male children, causing a high child mortality rate for females. All these issues can be found easily by tying in a few words in Google.
India's femicide problem, killing female babies, its going on all over the place and its not being protested much, or at all. And the result of killing the females is that there are now big crowds of men, as one CNN reporter complained, she was groped, mauled, grabbed in the most insidious ways etc. by a big bunch of men over there. OK, so killing the females makes a huge over proportion number of men, some villages are reported to be 95 percent men and hardly any women, no wonder then these men are getting crazy when they see a woman from CNN news.
Srila Prabhupada at least went outside India and he accepted people from every race, and he had them in his temples. That was never done before by these Hindu temple folks in India. His books have also been translated into probably dozens of languages and so on, the strict Hindus never liked that, they said we should not give Krishna to these lesser classes of race. Had we waited for these Hindus to bring Krishna to the West, we'd be dead by then.
At the same time its clear that the ISKCON program (as an institution) has failed for the most part. We have some newly formed small groups in different parts of the world, and we are building a sort of network or alliance, but its small and not too effective at the moment. We would agree with all that. Yet to say that village life in India, or urban life in India, is the superior program, is misleading.
We have seen some youtube kirtana programs going on with various Vaishnava type gurus in India, and lots of nice singing and so on, and thats really nice. However it seems that the overall culture is gradually getting buried in Bollywood movies, Western Industrialized employment, Western culture and Westernized Indians -- who simply cannot wait to move to the West. We have a number of friends from India, they watch cricket matches, eat meat, and they have little to do with Vedic culture these days. Of course, our temple in Sunnyvale is an exception, there are a number of very pious Krishna devotees from India there, but they are clearly the exception to the mass of Indians around the area.
We have some photos (not going to post them since they are not too decent) of some Indian women wearing very scanty clothes, and some very terrible Bollywood movie ads etc. from India, and this is of course the whole theme of modern India and its Bollywood culture and so on. The culture is in decline, and its affecting all sectors of that society, and its infiltering into the rural culture as well. The village life of India is a sort of helpful vestige or remnant of Vedic culture, but its not strong enough to impact the rest of India which is on a mad rush to become another Western country.
In any case, there are a number of exiled Krishna refugees all over the planet who will never give up on Krishna, with or without an official institution. We are mainly working with them, and our alliance is growing gradually. Village life in India, Gaudiya Vaishnava sects in place like Bengal, has almost no bearing on all our refugees, to state it simply.
Then again some local India authorities and village leaders around the Narayan Maharaja camp voted him as the "Yuga Acharya." At least so says his web site. Really? This is another problem with India, the main support for the bogus GBC gurus is -- in India. India needs to wake up and jettison these bogus gurus, as well as so many other hokey gurus that flourish over there. That would require real research into -- what is a guru, and so on and so forth, and for that we have to rely on Srila Prabhupada. He was not rubber stamping all kinds of people as Yuga Acharyas, he was telling us the real standards for these posts. In any case, we are going to move forward with Srila Prabhupada, with or without the ISKCON leaders, Gaudiya Matha, Village gurus, or whatever else there is out there.
Srila Prabhupada said, if he could make one pure devotee his mission would be a success, well he has made thousands of devotees, and at least some of them are following very purely. So his program has had success if we consider he was thinking one person would make it all worthwhile.
If anyone wants to research rural India and some of the problems there, here are a few starting point articles:
ys pd
Problems in rural India:
http://www.indianmba.com/Faculty_Column/FC579/fc579.html
Problems of migration from rural India to urban India:
http://www.fairobserver.com/article/problems-urban-india
Illiteracy in rural India:
http://eserver.org/courses/fall95/76-100g/papers/mekala/default.html
Lack of healthcare in rural India:
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/323723/maternal-morbidity-problem-rural-india.html
Migration to cities from rural India:
http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2011/01/rural-urban-migration-india/
ISKCON "experiment"? Never heard the term before. Is that what Prabhupada called it? As long as I am still on the planet ISKCON hasn't failed because I am an ISKCON devotee. As long as even one person follows ISKCON then ISKCON is still going on. As far as yuga acharya I have never heard that term either, but we are in the Brahma Madva Gaudiya Sampradaya, not the Narayana Maharaja Sampradaya.
ReplyDeleteFirstly I did not say just village life in India was superior, I said people who have been brought up in a GV (Gaudiya Vaisnava) environment still found in some village/farm environments in India follow GV like its second nature. (and yes they do still exist, not all GV communities have vanished outside of Iskcon) There are many in India and Bangladesh. (GV means Gaudiya Vaisnava not general India)
ReplyDeleteI also said if you take a child from that same GV village and bring them up in modern day India they too will have great difficulties in practicing GV. I am not ignorant of India's issues had you used my full post that would be obvious.
PD you quoted my words above then proceeded to make several arguments against things I never said... interesting!
The point I made was that no matter how hard westerners try to follow this GV it will always be like jumping in the Ganges and trying to swim against the tide. A rare few may find success (we are still yet to see any) in this path but for most it will be a long hard struggle of guilt and constant failure because the external rules are way too difficult for most westerners to follow and even the ones that appear to follow those external rules most of those do not.
Pd if you are going to use my reply posts to make title articles and then proceed to debate them I have no issue with that but please start by using my full post and at the very least respect me, yourself and basic journalism by reading my post thoroughly first then review it all again to be sure you not arguing against your own thoughts of what you think I have said instead of what I have actually said as in this example above.
So what did I say in summary? If you are brought up in GV village surrounded by family and extended family it will be much easier to follow the GV path vs a Westerner trying to follow GV in an institution focused on power, money and prestige. Two completely different worlds.
Ys jsr!
PADA: OK, well there are lots of Westerners who follow Gaudiya Vaishnavism, including us Prabhupadanugas, and we are spread all over the planet. Some of us are following way better than many of the folks in India. We were astonished not to be allowed into the Jagganatha temple in Puri, by "brahmanas" who largely eat fish and so on. We are not high standard, but we may have a better standard than some of the so-called brahmanas there.
ReplyDeleteThere are also all kinds of brahmans smoking beedis, sitting in teas shops, and who knows what else they do, all over India. Many of these brahmanas are not following as good as we are, and they are simply basing their judgement against us on racial division, which is another clue that they are in illusion.
Yes, there are some villagers who are attracted to Vedic culture, and that is good no doubt, but their influence and culture is deteriorating since they cannot separate themselves from the Westernizing influence in India as a whole. Some are naturally inclined to be devotees, true, many of them are ALSO naturally inclined to move to the cities and become Westernized and urbanized.
The culture is changing, and village life is diminishing, thats my point. An even if village life is ideal, then what happens to all of us? We are not able to live in an Indian village, so we have to trooper on in whatever situation we have. It does not matter to us if village life has some advantages, its not relevant to us and what we are doing.
There are some nice vaishnava culture signs remaining in some villages, I agree. At the same time you are not really giving us any alternate "plan B." We are already Vaishnavas. To say we are not capable of being Vaishnava is not helping the situation. We are Gaudiya Vaishnavas, and that is not going to be extracted from us, no matter what, that is who we are. We worship Lord Chaitanya, Radha and Krishna, and the saints of the Gaudiya tradition.
It does not matter if its easy or hard, or even if its impossible and we will have to die if we cannot be Vaishnavas, then we will die, but we are not going to stop being Vaishnavas. Of course all this begs the question, if you are on the internet and telling us all this, are you living in a remote village in India and practicing what you are preaching? Or is this more pie in the sky "armchair PADA advisors" hyperbole? Tell us what village you are living in and how all that is going over there for you, practice what you preach first. Are you? ys pd
Dear jsr,
ReplyDelete"So what did I say in summary? If you are brought up in GV village surrounded by family and extended family it will be much easier to follow the GV path vs a Westerner trying to follow GV in an institution focused on power, money and prestige. Two completely different worlds."
Sounds similar to what Srila Prabhupada said first. Only with one major difference. Maybe someone from India sees ISKCON as focising on money, power and prestige. But to a devotee like me, a member of it, there is no money in it for me. I gained no power in society from joining. Nor any prestige.
Not all of us in ISKCON joined and then became enamored by all these things. Instead, the average devotee who hangs in there serving Lord Krishna through all the trials and tribulations becomes purified, nothing more. This is called "testing" in metalurgy. A sword is put into the fire and beaten, then cooled. Again it is thrust in the fire, then cooled again. After a while it rings true.
Do not be so much on the bodily concept of life. You say you cannot think of an example of a "Westerner" who reached a high state? Well "Don't think!" first of all, like they told me when I joined. But if you need an example there is always the devotee who Srila Prabhupada said went back to Godhead. He said to celebrate this devotee's disappearance day in ISKCON. And he said to place the devotee's picture on the Ratha carts. But I won't tell you the devotee's name right now, since you might be so much on the bodily platform and so envious of ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada that you will simply blaspheme the devotee, Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON, and all the devotees not born in India who love Lord Krishna.
Don't be so proud of India. It is a country full of lusty men who kill all the female children, ask for huge dowries for their own daughters, burn them for a myriad number of reasons, rape other women and also kill men who are trying to protect innocent women. And those are the Hindus. What to speak of the Muslims?
Wow I am amazed or maybe I shouldn't be considering the responses. Firstly this title article was taken from my response to Pd’s article "Worldwide Youth Un-Employment Reaches Record Levels" of which he failed to post my reply on that article.
ReplyDeleteIn that context where the rank and file within Iskcon as pd puts it "Some of these youth have ended up working in hamburger restaurants and so on, the Krishna society has not provided for their future for the most part. ys pd"
To that end Iskcon is a failed experiment, ACBS tried to provide for his disciples in the way of schools, farms and temples. The schools were ravaged by child molesters (failed experiment). Very few of the Iskcon farms are viable and the ones that are the Iskcon centres do not purchase from them (failed experiment) The temples while it is nice to see Radha & Krishna being worshipped (mostly by pujaris on salaries), the temples are now under the control of a fake regime who protect and look after the child molesters (failed experiment).
As for PADA and other comments both of you are having trouble comprehending what I have said which is made obvious by your responses. I wasn't talking about tea drinking brahmins, villagers attracted to vedic culture or any of the straw arguments pd has put up. I am talking about GV (not Indian bodies) sadhaks that are directly connected (via unbroken diksha lines) to Sri Nityananda and Jhanava Mata, Advaita Acharya and Gadadhar Pandit who all travelled through Bengal making disciples. You people obviously think GV only exists in the disciples of ACBS, pd is a great example of how most iskconized people think (totally sectarian) , they give no credit to Sadhaks outside of the Iskcon /GM/Anuga institutions of which all are from broken diksha lines. The Iskcon/GM/Anugas are modern day interpretations that have totally deviated from traditional GV and ones that have mostly failed. As for the nonsense comment from the person who advises “Don’t Think” that’s exactly what you people need to do is think! That’s classic advice from a cult in the 60’s (Iskcon), made me laugh in so much that one. The people that did start thinking left! The people that started thinking and started studying GV history left Iskcon and left ACBS. My advice to you people is start thinking and start studying GV history then plan “B” will become more obvious.
Ys jsr!
Quoting numbers of people and buildings is no measurement of spiritual success. Putting it simply not one single ACBS disciple has amounted to much in terms of spiritual impact on the world.
ReplyDeleteor in other words
Quoting numbers of Prabhupadanugas and buildings is no measurement of spiritual success. Putting it simply not one single rtvik has amounted to much in terms of spiritual impact on the world.
OK so if preaching and making centers is not a sign of success, then closing down centers and kicking everyone out, like the GBC is doing, is a sign of success?
ReplyDeleteWe have no idea what you are talking about.
Srila Prabhupada says that making devotees is THE ONLY sign of success. Are you his new boss, that you know more than he does?
What devotees and centers are you making? At least we have something going on, you failed to tell us what you are doing, if anything. So far it looks like you have zero going on, you failed to mention anything you have done, at all. Show us the better program, and we will follow you. But if your program is apparently -- nothing at all, why would we follow that? ys pd
Sorry anon, you post disappeared when I hit post. Yes, ISKCON as an institution has failed, agreed, that is why we are not part of it, we are independent and so are our many independent devotees and centers. We are no long part of the institution, correct. Srila Prabhupada left his institution, and so have we. ys pd
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada left his institution? Amazing! When did you hear the news? Funny because the last thing I remember about it Srila Prabhupada said, "I and ISKCON are one.".
DeleteWhat exactly are you in then if you aren't in ISKCON? Or better yet, how are you serving Prabhupada if you aren't in his movement? How are you connected to him. Where is the link? What is your sampradaya if Prabhupada's is in ISKCON and yours is somewhere else? That is the answer isn't it, someplace else!
Hare Krsna PADA Prabhu.
ReplyDeleteAll Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
All Glories to the Prabhupadanugas.
Please accept my most fallen and humble obeisances.
PADA Prabhu said;"Yes, ISKCON as an institution has failed, agreed, that is why we are not part of it, we are independent and so are our many independent devotees and centers. We are no long part of the institution, correct. Srila Prabhupada left his institution, and so have we".
Well said PADA Prabhu, ISKCON has failed and is crumbling here in the Netherlands also, there is a fight going on between the Nama Hatta's and the New Huge Big temple, they wanted to build is not approved by the GBC and co GBC of the Netherlands. Devotees doesn't have the laxmi to give it.
This is the result of not following His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, Founder Acarya of ISKCON, His instructions!!!
First it was approved and than not approved, they need the laxmif for Maypura.
And I don't know what Anon is talking about, and who is laughing now Anon, and what is plan B?
Answer PADA Prabhu His question, do you think we are fools? we don't have paid salaries, we are happy with what we get from Lord Krsna.
All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, Founder Acarcya of ISKCON.
All Glories to the Prabhuadanugas.
Hare Krsna.
Please accept my most fallen and humble obeisances.
Hare Krsna.
Always Your servant,
dasianudasi
You are so stupid. you can't have it both ways. ISKCON opens temples and Madhu Pandit opens temples. You will die like a pauper!
ReplyDeletePADA: Hah hah, well as Bhakti Vikas swami said to me personally two years ago, "Everyone in ISKCON has heard of PADA." No one has ever heard of you, ever. This is about as silly as it gets, "No one knows about PADA, signed, anonymous." Are you smoking crack? We are getting many more hits on our blog these days, someone is reading it? Who reads your site, or do you even have one?
As for Bangalore, they are now writing on their sites, and making public TV shows, about all the things we wrote about since 1978, i.e. the bogus appointment, book changes, molesting issue, poison issue, New Vrndavana issue etc, they are copying all our materials. I do not care who gets the credit, they are repeating what we wrote about for years now, that's all that matters.
As for me dying like a pauper, so you are basically saying you are going to have a better death than me -- because you will be in Cedars Sinai Hospital? Hah hah, the people there are just as dead as I will be, when you are dead, you are dead, whether here, there, Cedar Sinai, it will not matter?
Not sure how that makes a lot of difference? You think dying in Cedar Sinai will help you, this is the most foolish thing I have ever heard. You say your dying in Cedar Sinai will be better than me dying in the poor man's hospital, umm, has no one told you, you cannot take it with you?
How do you even know I (or you) will not be run over by a eighteen wheel truck in 30 minutes, and we will be flat as a pancake on the freeway, and never make it to any hospital? You have no idea of the future at all, yours or mine.
Anyway, you can go to Cedar Sinai and die there, but after death, your body will stink just as bad as my dead body after a few minutes, whether here or there or wherever, it all ends up the same. I honestly do not care where I die mainly because, I will be dead. Duh! Put down that crack pipe, please! ys pd
Right, ISKSON is wherever people worship Srila Prabhupada. So we are the real ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada left the Gaudiya Matha, this was his guru's mission. This was to show us, if the institution is corrupt, leave and worship the acharya, and that is the real mission. ys pd
ReplyDeleteSuch speculation. Prabhupada didn't say he left the Math. He said his guru wanted a gbc, but his godbrothers failed to cooperate. So he had to start out on his own in order to fulfill the orders of his guru. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta never left the Math, and Srila Prabhupada never left iskcon. I'll give you one humdred million heavenly dollars if you can show me where Srila Prabhupada said what you just did, that Srila Prabhupada left the Gaudiya Math to show us if the institution is corrupt, leave and worship the acharya. It will have to be in his own words, and you would have to be qualified to see the "heavenly dollars" too. I have them right here in a pile. Similarly this quote that "wherever people worship Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON? Find that quote and I will give you two million piles of heavenly dollars.
DeleteISKCON isn't where you imagine it to be in your fertile brain. It is whatever Srila Prabhupada said about it. Why don't you dig up some actual quotations he said about it instead of just making up some cheating lies?
These guru people are really so puffed up its hard to believe. They think they get a free pass next life because they have better material life than us paupers.
ReplyDeleteThey stole the money from the brothers, now the brothers are dying like paupers. And they think that is good, we stole everything, we get to die in the better hospital, we go to heaven, the poor paupers cannot go to heaven, they do not have the money to pay for passage entrance. These guru people are so mundane it beggars belief.
No. You stole everything. Now you get to die in the big hospital, but then you have to pay for all you stole. you fools! A rich man who owns the cigarette company dies in the big hospital himself, does that save him from Yamaraja? No! That is the picture in the Bhagavatam, the man is dying in the hospital and the Yamadutta are coming, what fools think the better hospital will save them? From Yamaraja?
Oh these people are so ignorant, its amazing. This is why it says people who offend devotees lose intelligence and glide to hell. And they are so foolish they dont know they are going there. They think we have big hospital, we are better than everyone else. Thousands of Krishna devotees die every week in India, are they not going up because they died as paupers? These GBC guru people are ignorance personified.
I cant wait for them to all die and see where they are going, they will wish they were like the paupers. Keep up the good work PADA, you have these fools on the run.
Such speculation. Prabhupada didn't say he left the Math.
ReplyDelete[PADA: He said the matha had become asara, useless.]
He said his guru wanted a gbc, but his godbrothers failed to cooperate.
[PADA: Thats what we say, GBC and not gurus, correct.]
So he had to start out on his own in order to fulfill the orders of his guru.
[PADA: Right, leave and do the right thing, agreed.]
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta never left the Math, and Srila Prabhupada never left iskcon.
[PADA: Worship of illlcit sex is not ISKCON?]
I'll give you one hundred million heavenly dollars if you can show me where Srila Prabhupada said what you just did, that Srila Prabhupada left the Gaudiya Math to show us if the institution is corrupt, leave and worship the acharya. It will have to be in his own words, and you would have to be qualified to see the "heavenly dollars" too. I have them right here in a pile. Similarly this quote that "wherever people worship Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON? Find that quote and I will give you two million piles of heavenly dollars. ISKCON isn't where you imagine it to be in your fertile brain. It is whatever Srila Prabhupada said about it. Why don't you dig up some actual quotations he said about it instead.
[PADA: We have done that for years, we have made tons of papers quoting all kinds of things where he said the Gaudiya Matha idea of making illicit sex gurus is a deviation. Are you saying the worship of illicit sex is ISKCON? Just spit it out here, quit talking in cirlces, are you agreeing that the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as acharyas, is ISKCON? Yes or no? Quit your blaah blaah and just tell us -- if that is ISKCON in your opinion?
And if you can show us simply one verified quote where he says worship of illicit sex with men, women and children acharyas is ISKCON, from a direct quote, I will personally give you two hundred trillion dollars today. ys pd]
Wherever Srila Prabhupada is worshiped is his family:
ReplyDeleteOctober 8, 1967
Delhi, India
My Dear Nandarani,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter Oct 2 & I am so glad to have it.
You and your husband’s service in respect of opening the L.A. center will be recorded in the history of our Krishna Consciousness movement. Most probably I shall be in your country by the end of October or early in Nov. I am thinking of going by pacific route so when I am in your country I shall either be first in San Francisco or L. A.
My mind is always with you. Practically your country is my home now. India is foreign country for me. The reason is that my spiritual family is there & my material relationships are in India; therefore factually where my spiritual family exists, there is my home.
Regarding your personal question in the matter of relationship with your husband. Your relationship with your husband is all right. You must be faithful & devoted to your husband, Dayananda. Vedic system advises women to become very chaste & accept the husband as master. Your husband is especially good because he is progressing in Krishna Consciousness.
I am very glad that you two are very good combination & your devotion for your husband & your husband’s love for you are considered great achievements so I have also advised Krishna Devi for her husband, Subala.
I feel very happy when I see my spiritual boys and girls especially those who have been married by my personal presence are very happy in their conjugal relationship. Even if there is some misunderstanding between husband & wife that should be completely neglected & you should always remain rigid in service of Krishna as you have written to say, it is pleasing to be in the service of Krishna.
Discharge of Krishna Consciousness is our primary objective & all other relationships should be faithful to this principle. Follow this principle.
Your ever well-wisher
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
People are saying PADA has done nothing by making the poison tape public, because they want Srila Prabhupada's complaint to be nothing. Its another cover up.
ReplyDeleteThank you Pada for your letter dated October 8, 1967 to Srila Prabhupada above, from two disciples in ISKCON, not ritivks. You will note he wrote to them, "in respect of opening the L.A. center" "of our Krishna Consciousness Movement" "my spiritual family is there", "factually where my spiritual family exists, there is my home.". The spiritual family he spoke about in this letter is clearly the L.A. center of the Krishna Consciousness movement, not some out of the loop ex-ISKCON blooped former devotees of ISKCON. You seem to have your thoughts mixed up with the Bible verse where Jesus told his disciples at the Last Supper, "Wherever two or more of you gather in my name there I will be.". But even if Prabhupada said that, which he didn''t, Jesus did, still Prabhupada would have said stay in ISKCON. Cooperate with ISKCON. Don't leave the association of ISKCON. ISKCON ISKCON ISKCON. Not "Become ritviks after I leave.". That statement is just ridonculous!
ReplyDelete[PADA: OK except the GBC says we have to worship their illicit sex with men, women and children program as ISKCON acharyas, and claims that is ISKCON? The ritviks are the only people on the planet who actually worship Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON means to worship the pure devotee, its not a place, its a point of following the orders of the guru. Srila Prabhupada says people who worship illicit sex are not even remotely connected to his ISKCON, they are deviants. So we follow what he says, and that is ISKCON. ys pd]
Making the poison tape public did....nothing. not one thing has changed. why? because you are nothing.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Well this is amazing, some folks say (A) PADA has ruined ISKCON by making all kinds of public criticism of the gurus, so we made WAY TOO MUCH noise. Then we have (B) these people who say, we made no noise at all?
At the same time, sorry to report this, but thousands of people are taking the poison case seriously, and it has had an impact.
Anyway! Hah hah, these critics are fighting with each other? They are both saying diametrically opposite things? How can we be (A) way too noisy, (B) not noisy at all, at the same time? This sounds really dorky to us at PADA, these critics cannot even get their story together.
If someone has to keep writing comments to the PADA web site, which is nothing and zero, that means, they are less than nothing, they cannot even write something more effective themselves. So we are zero, and the fact they are obsessed with us, makes them less than zero.
Hah hah, these critics are cancelling each other out, maybe they should have a boxing match and sort it out there. As Srila Prabhupada says, the real action is in the reaction, the fact these critics are arguing among themselves all the time about PADA means, all they think about is PADA. So we have had an impact, and the proof is, they always talk about us and not much else. Hee hee!
If someone else has a better and more effective program, just tell us what it is and get over it .ys pd]
http://www.boloji.com/index.cfm?md=Content&sd=Articles&ArticleID=12148
ReplyDeleteadd this to your list of links
My dear Puranjana Prabhu. Please accept my humble obeisances. All gllories to Srila Prabhupada. Beware of false statements of support to your efforts. Be alert. There may be infiltrations of adverse elements to our cause posting as friendly. My humble obeisances to all. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Sri-Sri Nitai-Gauranga! Hare Krsna!
ReplyDeleteEveryone in ISKCON knows who I am. and they have all read what I have revealed. Who's laughing now?
ReplyDelete[PADA: Yes you are the all powerful master named --- I forgot, who are you again? ys pd]