Preaching to Atheists in Russia (and analysis of PADA)

Preaching to Atheists in Russia (and analysis of PADA)

Hare Krishna
From: ********.ru
To: angel108b@yahoo.com,

I don't know what kind of "angel" are you, but I have to tell you that I am not at all happy with your website - http://www.harekrsna.org/ I'll tell you why I tell you this.

I'm relatively new person in ISKCON, - several years I know ISKCON and attend some programs there. But some man from India told me: "I know ISKCON very well, see who is Harikesha"... So I did what he asked and found your website and some similar sites. But result of this was not very good. When I told in ISKCON that Radhanatha Swami is "murder conspirator" etc - just what you wrote on your site - they felt very unhappy and asked me never to come to ISKCON again. So probably you are wrong that you made this website.

[PADA: Radhanath swami had been a big leader in the New Vrndavana (Kirtanananda) program which had many crimes going on, including the murder of Sulochana. Sorry, Radhanath was the henchman for Kirtanananda, and he told me personally that Kirtanananda is the best devotee he knows, just months before the murder of Sulochana. 

Anyway, the New Vrndavana story has been in all the various news media all over the USA. I was interviewed for Rolling Stone Magazine, CBS news television, and was quoted in many other medias in 1986. Then the book "Monkey On A Stick" came out. 

And I was also interviewed recently for an Investigation Discovery TV Channel show, and so on and so forth. Thus the police, FBI, media, public, most devotees, they already know New Vrndavana was a criminal operation. As for the hareksna.org web site, it gets anywhere from 50,000 to 2,000,000 hits a month, its linked to maybe 100 other Krishna type sites, so someone is reading it somewhere. 

And we have had some good questions from readers of that site, as well as people sending us their stories as a result of that site. We simply cannot go to all the ISKCON temples and discuss these things there. We will be assaulted or worse. I was chased with baseball bats and was saved at the last instant by the police, who were following me, or else, I'd be dead by now. So its a little hard for us not to go public. If we were not out there in the public, we would have been killed already. Even Brahmananda told me, the GBC regime knows that killing you will make a huge media story, that is the only reason you are alive today.]  

*** I know one another site - prabhupada org uk - and I like it more than yours one. Actually you - PADA - are called bogus Krishna cult there. And I think they are right.

[PADA: Right, well that site is the run by Prahlad das / Mukunda das UK, and they are currently promoting Bhakta das, who is huge cheer leader for the worship of GBC gurus like Trivrikrama swami, Radhanath swami etc. So these people are still tethered to the GBC's gurus and Radhanath's program. So yes, these folks have said all along -- anyone who does not worship their debauchee gurus are "a cult." Sulochana said about these folks, that is how they try to get us people assassinated, calling us bogus etc. So this GBC / Bhakta das cult has wanted to demonize me and Sulochana to have us killed all along, and they are still at it. No surprises here!  

And the prabhupada org folks are now, as we speak, also citing Hari Sauri as their authority, and he was writing that me and Sulochana are bogus in 1986, which Sulochana said was "painting a bull's eye on our backs" -- and Sulochana was murdered as a result. So these prabhupada org people are directly promoting the regime which has the Vaishnavas -- like Sulochana -- assassinated. I was saved from their cult by -- the police and the FBI. 

Hari Sauri is also implicated in promoting Bhavananda and so on, so these prabhupada org folks are finally admitting they are with the Hari Sauri / Andy Warhol pada program, and we think that's good news really, they are now gradually being honest. The prabhupada.org web site folks are in sum, promoting the biggest cheer leaders of the Radhanath / Kirtanananda guru program, and most of us think this regime helped orchestrate getting Sulochana killed etc. They are openly citing the henchmen for the child molester's guru program as their spokesmen, leaders and authorities. 

Sorry, we are not with that program. 

They also said that the molested children of ISKCON need to be killed and chopped up, so they could save their messiah Radhanath. They are simply big defenders of the GBC's bogus guru regime and that's all. Some of the ex-children told me the prabhupada org writer Sanat has simply infuriated the ex-children by his saying all these children have to die (to protect their molester regime). So that is the problem, these folks wanted the ex-children victims to suffer and the child victimizing regime leaders to be worshiped as gurus, and they still do to this day. That has been the whole problem all along. 

At the same time, that web site promotes bogus and illusioned Illuminati DVDs made by beef eaters and animal hunters. They are trying to encourage the Krishna devotees listen to their beef eating Illuminati gurus on their DVDs, and we are not surprised at all that almost none of the Krishna devotees are attracted to their program. Some of the speakers the prabhupada org folks advertised on their Illuminati site are promoting animal hunting, so they are trying to mix up Krishna -- with animal hunting with guns etc. That is not what Krishna wants, for people to shoot animals with guns? 

This is not ever going to be gaining momentum. 

None of the bona fide Krishna devotees are going to accept these people -- because most Krishna devotees do not even have a gun, what to speak of getting guns for the purpose of shooting innocent animals etc., whom are the spokespersons these prabhupada org folks, whom they are promoting on their illuminati web sites. They are also telling people to avoid our web sites, because we are saying Krishna is not in favor of getting guns to hunt animals, we also do not support Bhakta das and the GBC guru's regime so on.]  

prabhupada org spokesman speaks:  

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/09/message-from-sanat-prahlad-mukunda.html


*** So, you on your site write that Hare Krishnas poisoned Prabhupada. But I found out that it was ChandraSwami - some tantric mayavadi "doctor" who is life sentenced somewhere in India. So why you say Prabhupada's devotees are poisoners? It means they are not.

[PADA: No, what we said is -- that the Hare Krishna leaders (like Tamal) probably worked with other deviants to make this poisoning happen. Perhaps Chandra swami was involved, and if he was, then he was employed by the poisoner cadre. We also have an ex-gurukuli testimony that he heard the leaders talking about poisoning, and Bhakti Caru was seen outside the room crying, saying that Srila Prabhupada was complaining of being poisoned, and so on. Chandra swami is not the main evidence, but its odd than his name came up.] 

*** Well, it may also mean that Prabhupada WAS poisoned. Well. So what can we do about it?
Do you really think that this CandraSwami was cooperating with some disciples of Prabhupada to give thim poison?

[PADA: I do not know, its just strange that his name was connected to these events.]

*** But don't you think that ... all this criticism you wrote on your site - saying that all kinds of Swamis are bad -  don't you think that by this - you are destroying your faith in Prabhupada?

[PADA: Judas betrayed Jesus, that's a famous story from the Bible. That story has not reduced faith in Jesus, that has increased faith in Jesus? I am not sure what your point is.]

*** I tell you why I think like this, and why I feel this site is more kind of atheistic site, than devotional.
I'll prove you. So, I was on some dispute between atheists and religious people. There one priest said - "Someone like you should be killed."

[PADA: I have had so many death threats from fanatical GBC guru followers no one bothers counting them anymore. Yes, the GBC gurus killed some of us, and that is why we had to go public. We needed help from the police, FBI and so on, and they helped us. Otherwise, we'd be dead by now.] 

*** Well, I told him - "but Krishna also killed demons". I said - "ok, you are not demon, but atheist." And I know - he is not a priest - he is atheist. This man - Duluman - was a candidate of theology after studying theology in USSR in 1945-1952 / 3, but then he became one of biggest atheists in Ukraine.

[PADA: OK now you are going off the reservation, atheists do not believe anything we believe? Not sure how that is connected to what we are saying?] 

*** So, when this man died on my birthday - news said - "atheist from God - Duluman - candidate of theology, atheist number one in Ukraine, classic of Marxism-Leninism, last war-like atheist in Ukraine - died 24 /6 / 2013." So. What does it mean to me? It means Krishna protects those who believe in Him. He can even kill atheist - if His devotee is in danger.

[PADA: Right, that is exactly what happened to us. Jayatirtha kicked us out, and then his head was chopped off. Kirtanananda opposed us, and he was then whacked on the head with a pipe, put into jail, and now he is dead. Jayapataka opposed us and his throat was slit almost in two by a devotee who was, dressed like Krishna! Later he had a stroke and almost died. He is currently a basket case. Suhotra, Gaura Govinda and similar others -- they are all dead. 

Satsvarupa wrote against us and he is now a basket case in a wheel chair. Tirtha, the man who was supposedly following my pick-up truck to eventually have me killed, is in jail for life. Many other GBC gurus are sick, dead, and so forth. Some of the other gurus like Harikesha report all kinds of health problems and he has a reported negative attitude about Krishna. Jaggadisha said he was sick for years. 

Vipramukhya said every time he initiated people, he got sick -- now he is blooped. Mukunda swami says he has been sickly. Kavicandra wrote a few years ago he has no appetite and he can hardly eat. Prabhavishnu fell down and so on and so forth. So it seems this guru program is always getting smashed in different ways, whereas our Prabhupadanuga program reports strides of success. 

So there was a plot to kill me, and Krishna did not allow that. So yes, that means I now have more faith in Krishna than ever. At the same time, even if they would have killed me, that also would have been Krishna's mercy, because a devotee just goes out and fights, and he does not care if he lives or not. That's up to the higher authority.] 

*** My case was similar to Hamsaduta. Hamsaduta - on your site - is in some "black list". But what he did right - is that he made one atheist die from his strong words. And that is very good. So you have no right to say anything wrong against Hamsaduta (I don't know about weapons, but simply arguing with atheist / demon is all right). Say, in my case, I know that this man - Duluman - he is ex-candidate of theology - because he is atheist now.

[PADA: OK well Hamsadutta has helped us and not helped us. What is important is that people understand the history of what happened. And the history is, Hansadutta devastated the Hare Krishna religion in the USA with his criminal enterprise in the name of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. And later on, so did Bhakta das with his designer drug program, getting busted by the Feds and making horrible news media, which is why we cannot help but wonder why prabhupada uk supports this man now? I did not produce one shred of this criminal publicity, I just reported what happened.] 

*** After 1952 or so - he wanted to become secular philosopher. So USSR wanted him to throw away his theology degree. So he applied to philosophy department, and there he became atheist and communist. Though he was not allowed to apply there as theologist, - he applied - but for that he asked some 3000 other priest and religious men - to go away from religion / Russian church / etc. So in this case I - yes, I see what books he wrote and what he did - he is not a devotee, not a religious or spiritual man at all. He is atheist.

Though. I was talking to him personally. He told me year ago that he is candidate of theology, that his degree can't be taken away/removed... But the next moment he said immediately - when I asked "do you believe in God?" - Duluamn said - "no!" So it was interesting thing - how an a person can be a "candidate of theology" and "atheist number one" (in Ukraine or anywhere else).

[PADA: That is what people tell me all the time. The GBC says God's successors are debauchees, that must mean, they are atheists. Who would dare insult God by saying His successors are deviants and debauchees? Atheism, yes, and I would tend to agree.]

*** But he was (is) atheist indeed. I'll tell you why. So you can compare with people in your list - all Swamis etc etc. Duluman is atheist - because he himself lead anthi-religious Propaganda in Ukrainian Soviet Union republic. Along with some other atheists. Duluman was a leader of Atheistic Organization (or Union) in Ukraine for past some 50 years.

So for him - philosophy department, and his degree - "doctor of philosophy" - was a path from religion (candidate of theology degree) - to atheist, so-called "scientific atheism)... So he worked on cathedra of "scientific atheism" in university on philosophy department - till some 1991, when USSR dissolved. So, over 30-35 years - he worked as atheist, and his theology was a past. Actually he looked like KGB (USSR FBI, secret agent of communist party) within a church. Because he hated religion and Gods like nothing else.

I'll tell you my short talk with him - so you can understand - who is demon, and who is not. I tell you this - so you can know that all those people in  http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black.htm - are should not be considered demons - except for a case when they PERSONALLY killed some devotees.

[PADA: OK, well the problem is that Sulochana's murder was a conspiracy. Almost all the other leaders were promoting Kirtanananda, so they are direct or indirect implicated.]

*** So my talk with this Duluman - "priest atheist" went like this. I saw an advertisement of an event. There was drawn a picture of Lenin (leader of USSR), and nearby was a label - "Duluman, candidate of theology, atheist number one in Ukraine". So I was really interested - how this is possible for a person to be a priest, and at same time some Leninist-atheist (number one atheist). I was studying on philosophy and studied religious sciences - so this was quite interesting for me.

So, I prepared some papers before going to that dispute - "is there a God?". I read something about who was this Lenin, and why he was atheist. I found out that he asked to "kill as many priests as possible." It was some paper which Lenin wrote to communists and other leaders of USSR - to kill all priests in USSR. So this was an order of Lenin - to kill priests as many as possible. 

So I thought - "well, it will be a test - who is this person, Duluman. Will he be on a side of Lenin, or side of religion, priests". Conclusion of this story was - I understood he was on side of Lenin, and side of Anti-Krishnas. So now the whole story.

I came to a place (Technical Institute) where dispute took place. So immediately when I saw Duluman I was feeling some contradictive feelings... "I this that man? Is he atheistic priest?"... So I thought for a while - "should I talk to him personally or no", but decided - that probably there will be no opportunity like this in life or in coming many years - so I decoded to talk to him as straight as possible - to know what is inside his consciousness.

So. I came close to him. He gave me his hand - to shake his hand. So, we shook hands, and he said - "Good evening". Hm. very strange - I thought - why he gave me his hand? Any way, I also greeted him. And I asked immediately - "Are you Duluman?" He answered - "yes, don't you know me?"

I immediately felt something strange in his manner of speech, and in his words. I saw that he was an old man - actually he was born in some 1928 - see here -

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дулуман,_Евграф_Каленьевич (you can translate from russian if you want).

He was already quite old. So it means he was born in Soviet Union, after 1st world war, and took part in 2nd WW. He he was among first people who created USSR, and still - he was also a person who destroyed spirituality in USSR. But lets go on. So I asked him - "so, are you .. candidate of theology?" Duluman said - "yes! I am Theology candidate! Don't you know that degrees can't be taken away?"

So, when I heard this- I couldn't believe it is possible... I read about him that he is atheist, and now he says that... he is candidadte of theology! How is that possible? But I didn't have much time to think about this all. So I continued. I asked Duluman, candidate of theology: "ok, so you are candidate of theology, priest, so you must believe in God. Do you believe in God? I am not sure because on advertisement there is drawn Lenin, and also said that you are an atheist... Maybe that is a mistake?"

But he replied: "Yes, I am atheist. I don't believe in God!" And that was kind of a shock to me! I couldn't understand this... I didn't know what to think - he just said that he is candidate of theology, theologician, priest, and just in next sentence he said that he doesn't believe in God and he is atheist...

Well, ok, now I understand - it is all because of philosophy that he became atheist. He was asked to read books of Marx and Lenin - in church - and to go against them, to find faults in them. But on the other hand - he became an atheist - marxist leninist himself. So we see the danger of reading books of atheists - this may make a devotee a atheist. If his faith is not strong anough, if he is not sincerely interested in God, serving Him. I mean - in serving Krishna.

[PADA: OK, this makes a lot of sense. He was a theist originally. He heard from the wrong sources, and then he converted to being an atheist. That has also happened in ISKCON, for example many of the ex-youth are against Krishna and Srila Prabhupada, because they heard the wrong things from the wrong sources, and so they turned away from the religion. I agree, this is a problem.]

*** So, Duluman said that he is atheist. Then I had another questions in my mind... I though - well - does it mean he doesn't believe only in Chrisitan God or Jesus, or in other Gods also? Doesn't he believe in Krishna? So I asked him - "ok, you don't believe in God. Which God? You don't believe only Christian God? What about other Gods? Do you believe in them?"

Duluman said - "No, I don't believe in Christian God. And don't believe in other Gods also... There are innumerable religions, and millions of Gods, but I don't believe in all them... it is like ... say some grand-mother, old woman reads something on a fence - so will she believe it... " And he started to tell about his nonsense in his mind, and on other hand - I wanted to tell him about Krishna. At this point I felt difference between me and him, between religious people and atheists. But it was just a beginning.

I said - "ok. I was in India. There I became interested in Krishna consciousness. It is a long story. But I want to say that it is not good to not believe in no Gods. Krishna says that - You can give up all kinds of religions, but never give up eternal religion - Krishna consciousness. He said - Give up all other dharmas, religions, but don't give up Krishna consciousness. He said - to become Hare Krishna, devotee of Krishna. So if you gave up other religions, - maybe you want to become Hare Krishna man? Devotee of Krishna?"

Then he answered - "hey, you are mad! You have to go to psychiatrist!"

[PADA: Happens to me every day! I am saying for example that homosexuals and deviants are not messiahs, then a few idiots from the ISKCON environment are saying this is all crazy-ness. It is a common technique "argumentum ad hominem" -- attacking the character of your opponent instead of answering his points.]

*** However, I asked him few more questions: "Wait! Do you believe in Krishna? Just give me direct answer - Yes or No. Is there Krishna or no, what is your opinion, candidate of theology?"

He said: "No, there is no Krishna, I don't believe in Him"...

I thought - "Hm, what a man! He just said - that he is candidate of theology - that he is religious man - or even priest - and now he says - no God, no Krishna! What is this?"

[PADA: Hah hah, you caught him, good job! Bravo!]

*** But I tried to check him more. I asked about Balarama, and more merciful - Caitanya and Nityananda.
So I asked: "And what about Balarama? Do you believe Balarama exists? Do you believe that Caitanya and NItyananda exist?"

He asked : "And who are they?"

I said : "Balarama - brother of Krishna, and Caitanya and NItyananda - are their avataras 500 years ago"...

He said - "No, no, there are no such persons / Gods which you are talking about." So that was his conclusion. I tried to tell him more about Krishna - but he ran away. Actually that time his "lecture" had to start. So he came to students, and gave a "lecture" on the Quran. Some other man was there from the Muslim side. So Duluman said - "Religion is sin, because God, Allah killed many men. And atheism is, I say, holy thing" I was shocked to hear this!

[PADA: Well this is what happens, when religion is mis-used it makes people turn away and start to blame God / religion for all the troubles created by these false religions. Many people are now upset with the Krishna religion, and they have even sometimes become atheists, because of the way they were mistreated by the (false leaders) of the religion. Christians have a laundry list of abuses going back to the middle ages, which has produced a number of virulent atheists. That is what Srila Prabhupada warned us about, if we mistreat the children, they may turn away from the religion. He was correct.]

*** So I heard all the stuff which he told, and after that dispute I came up to other atheist on that event. He was some younger scientific atheist, and also - some lawyer. I came up to him and asked - "What do you think about what Lenin said - that Lenin ordered to kill as many priests as possible." The atheistic lawyer answered - "That is not true. He never told that. ... but still. you better ask Duluman. He knows better. Ask him."

Hmmm. I was quite shocked to hear this also... Lenin was head of USSR, right? And USSR was atheistic. So ... this atheist said that Lenin didn't ask to kill any priest!

[PADA: Well you are a pretty bold preacher to walk into these folks meeting and challenge them, very nice. I am proud that you did that, its a great sign of your faith that you have so much boldness. Most devotees would not have the courage to address this kind of crowd.]

*** By the way, here is analogy with Radhanatha Swami. You say that he could ask some devotees to kill Sulocana. But as far as I can understand, he was not interested in that. I saw him personally just last month. I didn't talk to him, but he payed obeisances near me. Gave some lecture, lead a kirtan. So probably he is not as bad you think he is.

[PADA: RNS just buried Kirtanananda in the holy dham? He may appear as as nice guy, but he still has sympathy for the old guard criminal element.]

*** At least we can guess - if Radhanatha is preaching now - he must have been purified - just like some man - who was against Radhanatha - and later became his supporter after he was treated in hospital of RNS.

[PADA: Thats nice, that RNS helped some man. Good. The main thing is that we do not accept that these people are acharyas, there is no evidence they were appointed as such? RNS is also spending millions of dollars suing us in India, does he not have a better use for money than suing us Vaishnavas?]

*** So lets come back to Duluman. So I came up to him, and took out my Bhagavad Gita as it is. I opened it where colored pictures were, and found one - where Krishna is source of all universes - spiritual and material, and came to Duluman - "See - here is Krishna, God! Why you say there is not God? Here he is!"
Duluman just laughed at me and at Krishna - he said - "Ha ha! you can draw just anything!"

[PADA: Well next time I am going into a battlefield I will call for you to come help me, you've got some major bravery and its astonishing really.]

*** Next moment he changed. (Maybe Krishna influenced him? ) He started to talk with his people around and to say - "This Hare Krishna came to me before lecture and wanted to say that Krishna told this, that Krishna is right. He said Krishna Krishna, but I said - well, but Quran said different thing. He should go to psychiatric hospital, he is crazy"...

I didn't like those words. So. I asked directly to Duluman about Lenin. Previously I asked him about Krishna- does he believe in Him or no, and now I wanted to ask him of Lenin - just opposite of Krishna.
So, I felt more courage - just because that scientific atheist lawyer was not arrogant, and just said "it is false. Lenin didn't order to kill priests"? So I thought that Duluman would also be not so dangerous at this point.

But probably because Duluamn was "ex-priest", "candidate of theology" - this made him mad. So, I asked Duluman - "you are candidadte of theology or a priest. Lenin ordered to kill as many priests as possible, right? What do you think about this his order? Why you say Allah is bad, or Krishna is bad? Lenin is worse! And Krishna is not bad when He kills demons, atheists/ asuras!"

So Duluman looked at me, probably even angrily - and said - "someone like you should be killed!"

[PADA: Wow this story is giving me goosebumps, you really challenged a major rat here. Sheesh! My hat is off to you.] 

*** That was probably most dangerous part of the whole talk with him, atheist. And that showed his heart and soul - that he hated all religious people and God, Krishna, and was ready to kill priests. And that also means that Lenin indeed was same - Lenin also wanted to kill priests, but probably Lenin was even worse that Duluman.

[PADA: And the GBC guru program wants to kill us, so what is the difference between them and Lenin, from our point of view? The result is the same, repressing us.]

*** I don't know at this point about Kirtan-ananda. He said theoretically to kill a snake is all right, but Sulocana was killed. So was Radhanatha also with Kirtananada at that point? Or he was against killing?
I am not sure even about Kirtananada... If he was imprisoned... Just because he was responsible for those irresponsible lectures which lead to crimes in ISKCON? In New Vrindavan?

[PADA: RNS was at the time Kirtanananda's right hand man ...]

*** Actually this is very interesting point - when I was asked that I must be killed - that someone like you must be killed. Yes, if I am Hare Krishna, then what Duluman said sounds scary - Duluman thus meant - "someone like you - people of Hare Krishna or vaisnava faith - must be killed!" Can you imagine these kind of words from a ... candidadte of theology? From a ... priest? Well, I see that he is not a priest anymore. Candidate of theology degree for him - was just nothing (for him). He simply kicked away his theology degree and became war-like atheist. But Krishna killed this atheism. This demon.

Yes, he is kind of demon. I was scared for my life after Duluman said I should be killed. I answered strongly - as a protection from asuras etc - "well, Krishna also killed demons"... And of course at that point I meant Duluman was a demon, that Krishna killed some demons like him...

[PADA: Hee hee, oh you really got him that time!]

*** So most interesting part of all this - is that I talked about this with this demoniac "priest", demoniac "theologician" personally. It was not just some talk through internet... I even shaked hands with him! hm!
and just few hours after that (maybe after 2 hours of lecture) - he changed his mind - he hated me and wanted to kill me! And people like me!

So ... But at least I showed Him Krishna... And I feel that Krishna worked at that point - Krishna i feel really expanded Himself at that time and manifested His energies. So when I showed Him Krishna- Duluamn became scared, scared for his life. He was scared so that Krishna can really kill him... So that is why when I said that Lenin asked to kill priests - he was scared. Because Duluman was Leninst. He died as atheist and didn't want to give up his wrong thoughts about Krishna.

[PADA: Right, well after Sulochana was killed the FBI approached the Berkeley police and told them that I was next, so this created fear in the GBC regime, and that saved me -- from death.]

*** So I told to Duluman - "Well, Krishna also killed demons"... However... I thought for a while and said in different way... "Well, I don't say you are a demon, just human,... but a atheist"... So, this is a lesson for you. You call some people on your site - Harekrsna org - to be demons. But I guess they are not.

[PADA: Well we say, look at the result, the temples are empty, the devotees are discouraged and downtrodden, the samkirtana movement is almost non-existing, the book distribution has been almost halted, and so on. So the oppression of Lord Chaitanya's movement, we would argue, its demoniac.]

*** I can say that Duluamn can be more likely to be called a demon - or even asura - because he studied scriptures - he became theology candidate - but "negative priest", negative theologician. There are two kinds of theologies. One is positive, and one is negative. So Duluman was negative theologician - I am sure - and then he became impersonalist, agnostic, materialist, mayavadi etc. Maybe he even went to hell for that. I am sure he degraded after death.

[PADA: But even Duluman would not say illicit sex is the successors to God, like the GBC says? I think he knows that is not acceptable in human society? So he has at least some dignity?]

*** Ok, so this was a long story about atheistic "theologician"... Atheistic ex-"theologician".. He died on my birthday ;-) And I am happy for that. I just came back home next day after birthday. I was not in a city. And then I came back home - opened a site - I don't know why I wanted to see that site that day. Of course - I was feeling somewhat scary after that dispute with Duluman. He said that ... someone like me must be killed!
Just like Lenin said.

I had a very strong JAPA after that dispute.

[PADA: Great! Same as me, when people debate with me, it makes me feel stronger and more convinced, especially when they present foolish arguments.]

*** When I was going home - I chanted japa - even just on a street - and didn't care that people look at me and think that I am Hare Krishna. I was even afraid for my life. I chanted maybe few hours after that dispute, and it was very strong japa.

[PADA: Krishna rewarded you for making a stand on His behalf, that's wonderful.]  

*** And... maybe that is why this winter was a lot of snow... In Kiev so much snow fell down... Like in no other year. Maybe something like this was some 100 years ago or so... (when some similalar dispute was?) Well just few words I'll tell later. But Why I wrote this? Just because you are leader of this site - harekrsna org. So, you may be in similar position - that there are some HareKrishnas, disciples of Prabhupada - and they even... killed each other.

So in this case we should look at them just like simple people - and don't look at their degrees. Just like in case of Duluman. Who cares that he was candidate of theology? But at same time he was anti-church and anti-religion. Russian Orthodox Church anathemed him. Expelled him from church. Actually Russian Church took that degree of theologician back from Duluman. When he became atheist - his degree was a past and not real thing.

So we should think in same terms about Hare Krishnas. Say, if Prabhupada gave initiations to some disciples, but they ... became killers... Who cares that they were Hare Krishnas? But of course it is a hard question. Arjuna also killed. Krishna also killed asuras. Hiranyakashipu also was killed by Narasimha.
Vishnu is a killer of asuras. Ok. Does it mean we should be like that Duluamn - who hated all gods, all religions? He said - that "no gods in future are expected"...

But he was wrong. Krishna killed him on my birthday. Krishna was expected on my birthday to kill that atheist. And I am happy Krishna killed that demon Duluman ;-) So. On one hand - I also went to that Philosophy department - to know - who is atheist, and who is religious man? How to distinguish? How to know who is who - in New Vrindavan, in ISKCON - after Prabhupada etc?

But it is ok. If they are considered saints - let them be. If they are preaching - let them do so. Don't be like Duluman. angel108b@yahoo.com, you are acting like Duluman - who knows some Hare Krishna,
but at same time - is against Hare Krishnas. You shouldn't be like that. Must not be so critical. It is very bad for faith in Krishna.

[PADA: We have inspired people to quit worship of the bogus gurus and to accept Srila Prabhupada as their guru, so we are having some success with that, and therefore -- being critical is required to contrast our idea with theirs?] 

*** Duluman was a very very big critic. He said even to me personally that Hare Krishnas worship idol Krishna, use some cow dung and cow urine etc in rituals etc etc... That a court should take actions against me etc etc... But I know I am right - I said that court would rather take actions against Duluman - because he said - "there is no Krishna"...

And I was right - court - Krishna, Yamaraja and other gods - they killed Duluman, and I am happy for that.
Even though he was "candidate of theology". One more point... Russian Church was also against Leo Tolstoy - big Russian vegetarian philoospher, who also studied Vedas. But that is different. Religions are contradicting each other at some points - that's why they are different.

But why should be interested in non-eternal religions? Maharishi Mahesh yogi quoted Manu-samhita - laws of Manu - that "Veda akhila dharma mula" - "Vedas are roots of all dharma(s), religion(s)". So, if we speak with atheists - yes - we support religions. But if we speak with people of other religions - we may see differences - and we take one side - of this or that religion.

So better take side of Krishna... But I hope ... at this time - when He came as Caitanya - He is not going to kill anyone, any demon or asura... So I don't know what happened in New Vrindavan. Maybe no one will know. If you say that that your site - angel108b@yahoo.com, - is not for religious people - then for whom?
If you write that - it means you made that site fro... atheists? for ... ir-religious people?

So then will we care for what you say - if you direct that criticism ... write all those stuff - ... for non-religious people? If you write it for someone outside ISKCON - then where are you now? in which religion? if you are outside ISKCON - maybe it is your fault - too much criticism of them... I agree - Prabhupada is most important for ISKCON.

Others are his students. Some students are bad - like Jesus had Judah - and he sold Jesus for few coins of money... But what is that? Do you really think someone like Judah was there among Prabhupada's disciples?
So. I feel I am not interested now in sites like yours. I'm gonna be in ISKCON, and even though some people there are not perfect - still we think of Krishna and Prabhupada.

If Arjuna was a killer - will you put Arjuna to your black-list? I am sure - you will...! And Krishna also killed asuras like Kamsa... And you will put Krishna in your black-list - I am sure! And Narasimha also killed Hiranyakasipu - and you will also put Narasimha in black-list of killers, dangerous "cult" section... Be careful! Krishna doesn't kill His devotees! Arjuna was Krihsna's devotee, but Krishna didn't kill him, yes? Narasimha also didn't kill Prahlada, right?

Of course you can say - that some people who killed each other in New Vrindavan - are not Vishnu or His avataras. That's right. SO they could have killed wrong persons. But... do you mean they killed some devotees like Prahlada and Arjuna? I hope not. Maybe if Prabhupada was poisoned... Well, but I feel Bhakti-Caru didn't know what medicine he was giving, and that poison was from Bhakti-Caru. This is what I see now - as a new devotee - who never met Prabhupada, and was born just in mid-1980s.

So. all your criticsm - angel108b@yahoo.com, is useless. www.harekrsna.org - is nonsensical site. Who cares for it? Only some atheists may read it and come to conclusion - "Hare Krishna is a sin! Prabhupada is biggest sinner! Krishna is biggest demon!" and so on... I think you are atheist, and demon,

angel108b@yahoo.com, you look like asura, demon. Sorry. But I feel it. And www.harekrsna.org - is demoniac theology. I am not interested in this anymore. If you like this cow-dung - you can go on remaining in it. Hare Krishna.

P.S. I repeat. Don't criticize any saint or devotee - he may be Swami or Goswami. or just das. If you criticise - you become more and more like Duluamn - who says - "there is not Krishna". "No Caitanya". "No Balarama". "THere is not Nityananda"... "Someone like you - Hare Krishnas, must be killed" "You must go to be treated in psychiatric hospital" etc... Do you want to be like him, like this atheist number one ? Then you can continue hosting www.harekrsna.org ...If no - then ... give up all kinds of www.harekrsna.org / angel108b@yahoo.com, - and surrender to Krishna. Even to those people on http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black.htm ...

Hare Krishna

[PADA: Well thanks very much. You have actually proven our case in point of fact. If someone is saying they are theist, and they are preaching atheist, we have to challenge them. The GBC gurus say they are for Krishna, then they say Krishna's gurus and successors are fools, drug addicts, and debauchees, that means they are saying Krishna is a debauchee. That is atheist, it must be challenged. We cannot go to their temples and challenge there, our people will be banned, beaten and maybe even killed, so we have had to go public. There was and is no other option. I really appreciate your letter, its wonderful to see how you are challenging the atheist class. Bravo! Here are a few videos that might help you figure more of this out ... ys pd]   

Radhanath swami: http://youtu.be/ZoaeBdCaQ8I
Tamal Krishna and me: http://youtu.be/wMD6jyrLXwA
Sulochana murdered: http://youtu.be/1eTlmA6vBts