PADA: Thanks Prabhu (#1). Yes, Rocana keeps saying he wants to finally debate Yasodananda das, and he has made a public challenge to that effect. However, they already had a phone debate maybe 15 years ago, or more than that. Yasodananda das said to Rocana, "We cannot say that Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 impure people as Krishna's guru successors, that would make it appear that Srila Prabhupada did not know that his neophyte devotees were not pure enough to be acharyas. Therefore, he only appointed them as proxies or ritviks."
There was dead silence from Rocana after that, he knew he had been defeated.
Rocana has tried to say the 11 were appointed as gurus because "that is the tradition." So Rocana was unable to answer this point 15 years ago, and he has never answered ever since. Rocana has never wanted to actually debate with any of us on the guru issue, hence we are chopped out of commenting on his site. ys pd
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Anyway, in 1978 I said, this is never done, we have a guru whose worship is two inches shorter than the previous guru? What is that? In addition they started placing photos on the altars of the 11 and offered bhogha to them, and the temples began to sing concocted prayers to them.
Some of them had sanskrit prayers written for them, and these were being sung in the temples. Guru pooja was also being offered to the 11 with all the standard deity paraphernalia. Gaura Keshava was in New Vrndavana doing poojas at various times, and he helped establish the worship of Kirtanananda there, and he was doing all kinds of poojas at New Vrndavana, even after the German Shepherds were on the scene. Kirtanananda was being called "German Shepherd pada" by some folks.
Later on GKD began to formally change the poojas around ISKCON after he was made their "shastric advisor," but not all temples have adopted his reverse process. R dasi is correct, the Satanists have a reverse image of the Christian cross, reversing the process is known as Satanic, and there is also "reverse speech" on some Satanic Heavy Metal music. None of this is probing and provocatuer, its simply asking, who authorized all these changes? None of this was ever mentioned by Srila Prabhupada, just the opposite, he said, "Do not change it." ys pd
right on Yasodananda prabhu ....On the point of changing the order of whorship, ie Krsna 1st instead of Srila Prabhupada 1st. Once you start off on the wrong foot , then all other steps are faulty. Kelililalita dd said that at the Krsna Balarama mandire 1983, she was shocked to see that the samsara prayer was not chanted for mangal arotik. It was chanted at Srila Prabhupada,s samadhi previous to mangal arotik. Don,t know if this is still going on in India but it,s not at ISKCON Gainesville FL, where they sing the samasara prayer for mangal arotik which signifies that iskcon does not keep the same standard world wide . Its interesting too that the guru is no longer whorshiped for mangal arotik, maybe cause no one is on Srila Prabhupada's level. Again , starting off on wrong foot takes one in wrong direction. satyahit das
ReplyDeleteRight, Yasodananda has also said that there is no such thing as the worship of homosexual gurus and so on, and that is another reason Rocana does not allow us to post on his site, he knows our arguments simply cannot be defeated.
ReplyDeleteRocana was part of the 50 man committee to reform the gurus, and the reformers excommunicated Sulochana, re-instated Bhavananda, and voted in another 60 more gurus. This was worse than it was before the reform. Rocana knows he cannot explain the history of all this, and why he supported this bogus guru reform program. Gurus do not need reform, Rocana never understood that point. ys pd
Rocana's paper "Defeat of Ritvik-Vada" (DOR) has also been smashed by the IRM:
ReplyDeletewww.iskconirm.com/illiteracy