Friday, June 14, 2019

Back To Prabhupada, Issue 61, Vol 1, 2019

Back To Prabhupada, Issue 61, Vol 1, 2019

Continuing with our analysis of those who are supposed to be advising the GBC on philosophy, we turn to the understanding of Chaitanya Charan Dasa ("CCD"), who is another member of the Sastric Advisory Council ("SAC"). The quotes in shaded boxes are taken from a broadcast he put out on 23/11/18, which was in response to the question:

[PADA: First of all! Yes it is strange that a "guru sabha" would require managing and supervision by a "Shastra Advisory Committee."]

"Are the rtviks who reject the pure devotees of Krishna better or worse than the Mayavadis who reject the form of Krishna?"

Dogmatism, not philosophy

"there is often serious offense being committed towards great devotees by people who are of rtvik orientation."

The initial question assumed that by rejecting ISKCON gurus, rtviks are rejecting "pure devotees". And CCD responds by agreeing that rejecting these "great devotees" leads to the commission of "serious offense" against them. However, CCD also claims that "rtvikism" arose due to correctly rejecting ISKCON gurus who were assumed to be pure devotees:

"recognize that rtvikism has arisen from certain complex situations which involved devotees losing faith. So that happened because many of the leaders, who people at that time believed they're pure devotees, turned out to be far from that standard."

[PADA: OK so the idea that we have to worship only the pure devotee, and not the conditioned and falling down sector of devotee, is a "new concoction." We hear this all the time, worship of the pure devotee is NOT found in shastra!]

Hence, CCD claims that "rtvikism" is based on having correctly rejected ISKCON leaders who were alleged to be pure, but that rtvikism is also offensive and thus wrong because it rejects ISKCON leaders who are alleged to be pure! 

[PADA: Yes, these folks are arguing with their own shadow. (A) The ritviks are bogus for not worshiping our pure devotee gurus; (B) Our gurus are falling down left, right and center and are not pure. Therefore (C) The ritviks are correct, our gurus are not pure. Therefore, (D) because the ritviks agree with us, they are bogus and offensive!]  

This is not a philosophical argument but just a dogmatic belief that ISKCON's gurus are great, pure devotees, and thus must automatically be accepted as such, otherwise one is committing a "serious offense". CCD needs to first prove, not just assume, that all current ISKCON gurus are pure. And even then, unless he can prove that Srila Prabhupada ordered all these current ISKCON gurus to replace him as ISKCON's diksa guru, then no offenses are being committed in rejecting them for not being authorised gurus.

Avoiding the actual order

"rtvikism as an idea it has arisen primarily from hurt hearts, and from betrayed faith."

The idea that Srila Prabhupada issued a directive to ISKCON, in which he sets out a rtvik initiation system, which will continue his position as ISKCON's diksa guru ("rtvikism"), has actually "arisen" because: Srila Prabhupada issued a directive to ISKCON, in which he sets out a rtvik initiation system, which will continue his position as ISKCON's diksa guru (July 9th, 1977, directive)! 

One can try to argue that such a system was to be terminated on Srila Prabhupada's physical departure due to the rtviks turning into diksa gurus – which is what actually ended up happening, and thus gave rise to ISKCON's guru system. But one cannot argue that the "rtvik" idea is not derived from a certain understanding of Srila Prabhupada's orders. 

Now, it is certainly possible that this idea has gained acceptance by some devotees because of having hurt hearts due to guru betrayals, but the idea itself is based on Srila Prabhupada's orders. CCD thus uses a common technique to try to avoid dealing with Srila Prabhupada's orders, by discussing why some people may accept those orders, rather than the orders themselves.

Current leaders not rebuilding

"unfortunately some of the rtviks don't realize is that the current leaders of our movement, at least many of the current leaders, that they were not the betrayers, they were also among the people who were betrayed [...] many of the leaders in ISKCON now are rebuilding the movement from within".

[PADA: The leaders who promoted Kirtanananda, and who currently promote burying Kirtanananda in a samadhi, are the betrayed and betraying party simultaneously?]

Unfortunately CCD does not realise that the current leaders of the movement all support the current ISKCON guru system, under which many gurus have become "betrayers" by "falling", and they also supported those gurus who fell as being bona fide before they fell. CCD also accepts that only "many", rather than all, of the current leaders were not betrayers! 

[PADA: Yes, Gaura Govinda Maharaja for example said to me that he has to "cooperate, tolerate and work with the GBC gurus." So he is a betrayer, and is betraying everyone by making it look like cooperating with deviants is the standard for devotees. Its not. Srila Prabhupada told us we cannot cooperate with guru and acharya deviations or "we will become implicated."]

Further, the first section showed that both the questioner and CCD still accept that today's ISKCON gurus are pure and great devotees. And anyone who does not accept them is committing "serious offense", on a par with Mayavadis:

"in our spiritual life it could well be that the association of the Mayavadis as well as the association of rtviks can be injurious to our bhakti."

Thus, there is no "rebuilding" going on since the unquestioned acceptance of the GBC gurus remains the same as before, and gurus still turn out to be far from the standard required to be a guru.

Guru hoax is the change

"there are others ["rtviks"] who [...] want to make some foundational change which has no precedence in our tradition."

There is no "change" that we are proposing. Our position is "no change" to the ISKCON Srila Prabhupada gave us, with himself as its Acarya and diksa guru. The change to this was made by the GBC, a change for which there is no order from Srila Prabhupada – whereby a GBC body would vote in multiple successor gurus. And this change has no precedence in our tradition, as the GBC themselves admit:

"ISKCON's ethos of multiple diksa- and siksa-gurus serving under the auspices of a global managerial board is unique in the history of Vaisnavism".
(GBC Resolution 318, 2014, emphasis added)

"you're doing something that had never been done; when you're going to have a single institution with many different spiritual masters and there are many different disciples who are going to have to work together in a cooperative and unified way. Just hadn't been done."

(HG Ravindra Svarupa Dasa, ‘Issues in ISKCON Reform' Lecture, 29/6/99-3/7/99, emphases added)

Thus, in actuality, it is CCD who is proposing a foundational change to what was given by Srila Prabhupada, which has no precedence in our tradition!


The above arguments offer nothing to demonstrate that Srila Prabhupada should be replaced as ISKCON's diksa guru by alleged "pure great devotees". And these are arguments that are put forward by supposedly one of the best ‘philosophers' and ‘scholars' the GBC have to offer, via their SAC. Hence, when even their "best" are unable to make a dent in the IRM's position, it is a clear sign that the IRM's position is irrefutable.

[PADA: Yes, on this issue there is no refutation. The GBC's gurus are not bona fide, which is why they keep failing left, right and center. 

The only problems we have had with the Krishna Kanta's IRM are:

A) The IRM told me not to have the GBC sued in court over the changed books, claiming they would "make a deal with the GBC" for original books. "We should not antagonize the GBC at the time the IRM is negotiating." Very unrealistic, never happened and won't happen anytime soon. 

At least our book changes issue and BBTI court case put the issue on the map, and made many thousands of sleeping souls aware of the problem and so on and so forth. Sorry, that had to be done. Now there is a growing army of people who want originals, and there was no other way to awaken people and arrange that process.

B) The IRM said, we should not help the GBC's victims sue the GBC over the child molesting. OK that would allow the (then) ongoing abuse and suicides to continue. What is the hold up? The IRM said that we would lose too much money and maybe also buildings if there was a lawsuit. 

Oh boo hoo, I have to make sure Jayapataka has lots of money for his health care, and a building to be worshiped in! We need to allow children to be abused and even die, to save money? What is with these people? People can be abused, and even die, so we can make sure Hrdayananda has his annual guru pooja in a large building? 

C) The IRM was vehemently opposed to PADA's introducing the Srila Prabhupada poison complaint issue. Same reason, its going to antagonize the GBC, its going to cause us to lose money, lose buildings etc. Later on most of the IRM's folks including Kamsahanta agreed with PADA that the poison issue is valid, and needs to be exposed. Srila Prabhupada complains of being poisoned, that is what he said, and we are simply exposing what he says. 

MEANWHILE, some people tell me thanks for exposing what they say is -- the MOST IMPORTANT issue -- the book changes.

MEANWHILE, other folks (like victims of abuse) thank me for exposing the MOST IMPORTANT issue, the molesting issue. Well it is the most important issue, for these victims.

MEANWHILE, other folks say thanks for exposing the POISON TAPES, that is according to them the MOST IMPORTANT issue. 

So its amazing that anyone would want to suppress these issues.

At the same time Krishna Kanta STILL says that he will FIX THE GBC's GURUS with his reform, so there is no need to initiate people now since VERY SOON the GBC will agree to be ritviks and they will conduct the IRM's initiations. This seems to be very much a pipedream. We need to initiate people now because we need poojaris and such right now. 

All he is doing is helping more people run off to other missions like the Gaudiya Matha, or sneak back into the GBC's camp to get initiations. The IRM should be encouraging people to accept the formal process and not sit around waiting for his reform pipedream to manifest.

At the same time, talking to some ex-kulis, and they think the IRM is very hard hearted to have wanted them to start their lives with zero help and zero funds, when they got at least some settlement money from the abuse lawsuit -- which they would not have got elsewhere. Certainly the IRM would NEVER have got one penny for these victims, ever.  

And they think its frankly appalling that the IRM ilk wanted the suicides of victims to continue. And some of them complained that the IRM NEVER COMMUNICATES with them, so the IRM has no idea how these issues have impacted things. One of them said its simple, we got some funds and the IRM ilk wanted us to have zero funds, because they are ENVIOUS we got at least something. Possibly true? 

Anyway, the IRM has done some good things and we should give them credit for that. At the same time, they should learn to communicate with us and GBC victims and so on, that would cure them from thinking fixing the GBC is the be all and end all process. Its not. Srila Prabhupada did not attempt to fix the Gaudiya Math either, we need to avoid them and work independently. ys pd



by Srila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura

What is envy? Are envy and love opposed to each other?

To become happy on seeing others distress and to become distressed on seeing others happiness is called envy. Envy and love are contradictory, and hence mutually exclusive. Wherever there is envy there is no question of love, and wherever there is love there is no question of envy.

Sajjana Tosani-4/6

Why envy is the leader of all 6 internal enemies?

Lust, anger, greed, illusion, and pride are included within envy. Lust is included in anger; Lust and anger are included in greed; Lust, anger, and greed are included in illusion; Lust, anger, greed, and illusion are included in pride and lust, anger, greed, illusion, and pride are included in envy."

Sajjana Tosani-4/7

How is Vaisnava dharma non-envious religion?

Vaisnava dharma consists of compassion for the fallen souls, eagerness in chanting the Lord's holy names and serving the Vaisnavas. It stands on one side and envy stands on the other side as its opposite." Sajjana Tosani-4/7

What is the living entities liberation and bondage?

Non-enviousness is the cause of the living entities liberation and enviousness the cause of their bondage.

Sajjana Tosani-4/7

Can an envious person feel compassion for other living entities, develop faith in the Vaisnavas and become lower than the straw in the street?

A person who feels distressed upon seeing others happiness can never show compassion to other living entities. He cannot worship the Supreme Lord with a simple mind. Due to his perverted nature, he maintains hatred and enviousness towards the Vaisnavas. It is to be understood that a person who has completely divested himself of envy has actually understood the purport of the "trnad api sahisnuna"

verse. Sajjana Tosani-4/7

The Krishna consciousness movement aims at creating an atmosphere of non-envy. Of course, it is not possible for everyone to become Krishna conscious, but they should strive for that aim.


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