Tuesday, February 4, 2014

Motivation for Book Changes?

[PADA: The argument that we need to worship members a group which includes deviants, criminals and debauchees to attain "pure spiritual knowledge" (diksha) really does not make ANY sense. Lets face it, the GBC guru's argument that we need to worship conditioned souls to attain God is -- falling apart at the seams, it just does not make sense, and it does not work practically. Meanwhile Rocana's team says "Srila Prabhupada made it intentionally vague," ummm fine, except Rocana's team is not vague at all, their team says directly that the worship of the pure devotee is -- post samadhi, posthumous, post mortem etc. Rocana's team is not vague at all, they say worship of pure devotees is -- a dead idea. ys pd]

Srila Prabhupada: “You cannot change one comma not even a punctuation mark, that is the etiquette!”

“Don’t you dare change the picture on my book!

I have deliberately chosen the picture of Visnu because I want this book to be attracting the Mayavadis and impersonalists”

“If you put anything bogus in my book this is my greatest fear that you will ruin my book and the whole book will be ruined because of you!” (Ramesvara interview 1979)

Shocking Book Change Motivation Revelation

By Bhakta Mathias: Some time back many devotees had noticed that the new 9 Volume edition of the Caitanya Caritamrta had made a deliberate change from Srila Prabhupada’s original version.

Srila Prabhupada’s Caitanya Caritamrta states the following: "Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who *initiated* Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji." (C:C, Chapter 1)

In the new BBT doctored 9-volume edition, the same passage reads: "Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn accepted Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji."

In other words, it has been decided that contrary to what Srila Prabhupada states, Jagannatha Das Babaji did not really INITIATE Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura after all. Now the reason for the BBT changing Srila Prabhupada’s teaching here is very significant, since the GBC maintains that the relationship between Jagannatha Das Babaji and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura was based not on ‘formal initiation’ but rather only on the transmission of transcendental knowledge’.

Once it is accepted that the transmission of divine transcendental knowledge ALONE constitutes INITIATION – then the objections made by the GBC to the Ritvik system of initiation crumble, since Srila Prabhupada could also *initiate* us with transcendental knowledge.

Thus the BBT could not allow Srila Prabhupada to teach that Jagannatha Dasa Babaji actually *initiated* Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, for that would indirectly sanction Srila Prabhupada *initiating* for many generations to come simply via his transcendental knowledge, with the ‘formal initiation’ administered via the Ritvik system that he set up. In any case the teaching given by Srila Prabhupada above is totally consistent with what Srila Prabhupada has taught about Diksa and initiation in the Caitanya Caritamrta itself:
“Diksa actually means *initiating* a disciple *with transcendental knowledge* by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.” (Madhya-lila, 4:112, Purport)

Of course just the very fact that the BBT is deliberately changing the main legacy left by Srila Prabhupada – his teachings – is horrendous enough. However the fact that it was done specifically to keep the positions of the GBC within the crumbling Guru system intact, is totally shameful.

But just when you thought it could not get any worse, it does. For the BBT have now become so arrogant in their campaign against Srila Prabhuada’s teachings, that they have even tried to JUSTIFY this change. Dravida Das, the BBT editor, upon being asked by Dhira Govinda Prabhu to justify the change, first sums up the reason for NOT changing Srila Prabhupada’s teachings as follows:

“On the side of not changing the “initiated” phrases we have the strong bias against changing the books unless absolutely necessary and the fact that Srila Prabhupada did indeed say that Jagannatha das Babaji initiated Bhaktivinode.” (BBT Editor, Dravida Das)

Please note that Dravida clearly ADMITS that Srila Prabhupada “DID indeed say that Jagannatha das Babaji initiated Bhaktivinode”. To any sane person, this would be the ONLY reason required to NOT tamper with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings in any manner whatsoever. But hold on. Dravida Das has a reason that far outweighs a mere detail such as what Srila Prabhupada himself actually taught. Rather he states we must change Srila Prabhupada’s teachings to ensure they conform with what is currently understood within ISKCON in regards to initiation:

“Leaving one or both “initiated”s will strongly imply that the use of the phrases “direct disciple” and even “accepted [as his disciple]” indicate formal initiation as we know it in ISKCON, which is far from the truth.” (BBT Editor, Dravida Das)

Dravida then adds that this reason was paramount in justifying the change: “This last was the weightiest argument, in my view, for changing the passage.” (BBT Editor, Dravida Das)

Thus to summarise, what Dravida is saying is this: That whenever Srila Prabhupada’s teachings differ from the way ‘we know it in ISKCON’, then they must be changed to conform with the way we DO ‘know it in ISKCON’. And of course the way ‘we know it in ISKCON’ is dictated by whatever ridiculous philosophy the GBC happens to be preaching at the time.

So the fact that we have had a bogus Guru system imposed on us in ISKCON by the GBC means that even though we may find that Srila Prabhupada teaches something else, we must modify Srila Prabhupada’s teachings to agree with the way things are understood in ISKCON. Instead of changing the practices and understanding of ISKCON to conform with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings – which of course is what a spiritual society based on following Srila Prabhupada would do. Not only is it bad enough that ISKCON is NOT run according to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, but now Srila Prabhupada’s teachings must also be changed to fit in with the way we happen to be doing things in ISKCON.

What makes this shocking state of affairs even more ludicrous is that the way things are ‘known in ISKCON’ are themselves constantly changing anyway.

1. Thus from 1978-onwards, in ISKCON we ‘knew’ one thing in regards to the process of initiation – that you could ONLY take it from 11 people, and then ONLY whichever of the 11 people ‘owned’ your geographical area.

2. Then from 1986 we ‘knew’ something else about initiation – that you could take it from many others providing they had received the necessary number of votes.

3. Now we ‘know’ something else – that whoever you get initiated from, do not forget that you must not worship him too much, and that Srila Prabhupada is also doing some important things, and indeed maybe even more important than the person who does initiate us.

4. And what’s the betting that this ‘understanding’ will also change in the next year or so?

5. And just because we happen to ‘know’ at the moment that initiation must mean the ‘formal ceremony’, therefore any teaching in Srila Prabhupada’s books that imply otherwise must be doctored.

And this is a very sinister development for yet another reason. For this justification is laying the ground for making ANY further change to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings that the GBC deems fit. Thus in the future  if it is ‘known in ISKCON’ that ‘women are as intelligent as men’ say, then we will be able to alter all of Srila Prabhupada’s statements where he says that women are less intelligent, since then it would not conform with the way things are ‘known in ISKCON’. Or if in the future we begin to ‘know in ISKCON’ that Lord Siva is just as worshipable as Krishna say, then whenever we encounter the word ‘Demi-God’ in Srila Prabhupada’s books, then all those instances must be changed. And so on.

Of course someone may argue that the philosophy as ‘we know it in ISKCON’ will never change and will always be faithful to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, and the above fear is unfounded. (Of course Pigs May Also Fly).

If the last more than 36 years is anything to go by, the only thing we can say with certainty is that the GBC will ALWAYS be deviating from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, and the ONLY SAFEGUARD WE HAVE IS SRILA PRABHUPADA’S TEACHINGS. And once we change Srila Prabhupada’s teachings to fit in with whatever nonsense we happen to believe, then all will be lost – as seems to be happening now.
How much longer must we put up this with this madness that is leading to the destruction of Srila Prabhupada’s movement.

Note: only this book change is enough to understand that Prabhupada is initiating us with transcendental knowledge = divya-jnana = diksa. Therefore he must be the real diksa guru of Iskcon, otherwise why are the book changers, editors and snakes so mad after changing Prabhupadas books? Because they must doctor Prabhupadas books in such a way that nobody can understand what diksa really is. Otherwise everybody can understand that Prabhupada is the diksa guru of Iskcon.

tad viddhi praṇipātena / paripraśnena sevayā / upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ / jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.” (Bhagavad-gita, 4.34 – 1972 original first ed.) !!!

tat—that knowledge of different sacrifices; viddhi—try to understand; praṇipātena—by approaching a spiritual master; paripraśnena—by submissive inquiries; sevayā—by the rendering of service; upadekṣyanti XXXX>>>> ( INITIATE )<<<< XXX !!!!!!!!!!!! ; te—unto you; jñānam—knowledge; jñāninaḥ—the self-realized; tattva—truth; darśinaḥ—the seers.

NOTE: In this verse the word “upadeksyanti” is translated in the word-for-word translation as meaning to “initiate“; (1972 original first edition) however, in the full translation this to “initiate” is rendered as requiring the Guru to “impart” (knowledge). Consequently the “Prabhupada is siksa not diksa” advocates are caught in a logistical trap of their own making. If Srila Prabhupada is capable of “imparting knowledge” or “divya-jnana” to newcomers via his books , which the GBC concede in advocating him as the pre-eminent siksa Guru for ISKCON, then he must by definition be able to initiate or give diksa too. Transcendental knowledge or transcendental siksa = divya-jnana is, after all, the main constituent of diksa (only possible to received from an qualified bona fide Diksa guru, means uttama-adikari who is additionally authorised by his predecessor spiritual master).

This states that the spiritual master is the person who will impart knowledge unto us. When all members of Iskcon read Srila Prabhupada’s books, they are having knowledge imparted to them by Srila Prabhupada, our current link in the disciplic succession.

In the German first edition 1974 the word “upadeksyanti” is translated = “INITIATE”. But in the next edition 1983 in the word-for-word translation you find “upadeksyanti” translated in “can be given”. The word INITIATE is completely deleted in German translation.

And in the new changed Gita English version u find “THEY INITIATE”, no more only “INITIATE”.

Srila Prabhupada: When it was not handed down. Simply understood by speculation. Or if it is not handed down as it is. THEY MIGHT HAVE MADE SOME CHANGES. Or they did not hand it down. Suppose I handed it down to you, but if you do not do that, then it is lost. Now the Krishna consciousness movement is going on in my presence. NOW AFTER MY DEPARTURE, IF YOU DO NOT DO THIS, THEN IT IS LOST. If you go on as you are doing now, then it will go on. BUT IF YOU STOP…” (Room Conversation with Carol Cameron – May 9, 1975, Perth)

Srila Prabhupada: “He’s giving some examples, but the knowledge has to be received by the paramparā. But some way or other, the paramparā being lost… Just like I have spoken something to my disciple. He says the same thing to his disciple. He says the same thing to his disciple. But some way or other, if it is distorted at a certain point, then the knowledge is lost. As soon as any of the disciples in the succession distort the knowledge, then it is lost. That is being explained.” (Lecture on BG 4.2 — Bombay, March 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada predicts what happens when the acharya disappears?

Unfortunately, when the acharya disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called swamis, yogis, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on.   (SB 4.28.48)

Do not make addition, alteration. - Results of making additions and alterations.

"Many times they give me very great credit that I have done wonderful. Yes, I have done wonderful. But what is the reason? Because I am not a rascal. I speak what Krishna has spoken. That’s all. Very easy. Everyone can do that. Not only I. Any of you, you can do this. Simply speak what Krishna has said. That’s all. Don’t make addition, alteration. Then you become rascal. Immediately you become rascal." (Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 1.5.29 Vrindavana, August 10, 1974)

Danger of concocting: Prabhupada: "Ara na koriha mane asa. Don’t concoct. Don’t you sing daily? Ara na koriha mane asa. Don’t manufacture ideas. That is dangerous. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches by His example. Guru more murkha dekhi’ karila sasana. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said to Prakashananda Sarasvati that “My spiritual master saw Me fool number one, so he has chastised Me, that ‘Don’t try to read Vedanta; chant Hare Krishna." (Conversation, June 23, 1976, New Vrindavana)

Go to right person who has seen. - Do not make your own interpretation. Prabhupada: "Therefore Krishna says, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya: “One who knows, go and understand from them, from the guru.” Don’t make your interpretation, rascal. You shall remain always a rascal. Then what is the use of all these verses? If it is so easy to understand Krishna then why Krishna says, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya: “Then you will understand. Go to the right person who has seen." (Conversations, December 10, 1975, Vrindavan)

Srīla Prabhupada’s will states that "The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change." My question is, “Since a will, by definition, goes into effect immediately after a person leaves his material body, why were changes made to the system of initiations immediately after Śrīla Prabhupāda’s physical departure? Also, his will states, “…a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple…” My question is, “How can the property directors always be, in the future, ‘my initiated disciples,’ unless Śrīla Prabhupāda’s system of ṛtvik initiations is continued now and in the future?” (Letter July 9th)

“He reason ill who tells that Vaisnavas die, When thou art living still in sound!
The Vaisnavas die to live, and living try, To spread the Holy Name around !”
(Poem by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

Srila Prabhupada: “I will never die. I shall live from my books, and you will utilize.” (Interview, July 16th, 1975, Berkeley, California)

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you’re not present with us , how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise…

Srila Prabhupada: “Well the questions are answ… answers are there in my books. [...] So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered. [...] Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered. [...] If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way.” (various quotes from different sources)



  1. Jayadvaita Swami is in
    America to try to find
    a person to help him publish
    his book and market it
    to a receptive audience.
    He may also meet with
    some scholars of
    Ecclesiastes to seek their
    support. While he is
    here, he also encouraged Abhirama
    and Rama-Raya in
    their harinama
    at Union Square.


  2. If Mathais, or anyone else, writes some solid siddhanta piece, we should encourage that. We need people who can write using solid citations, because right now, we have hardly anyone who can. Our position is to encourage when people do the right thing, and that was Srila Prabhupada's position as well. ys pd


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