AD: Yashodanandan for whole long then years, beginning with the first spontaneous attempt of opposing the 11 rascals right at Mayapur march 1978 which he was a member of, had not spoken a single word about the ritvik order.
[PADA: Correct. For a very long time we did not have many of the key documents -- such as: The July 9th letter; The appointment tape; The letters; The 1977 conversations and so on, all of this was being hidden by the leaders. Sulochana gave us "the appointment tape" and a microfiche of "the letters" in 1984 (he bribed someone to get copies).
The 1977 "conversations" were also not printed by the archives until 1990. The poison tapes were also missing and we only got those in 1997. Of course, now some of the foolish members of the GBC's guru cult quote these same letters to us, forgetting that we were being threatened with death for even having those exact same letters in 1984. Sulochana told us -- he was told he would be "dead meat on a hook" by a GBC guru -- if he did not return the letter's microfiche. So apparently, the same party that wanted to kill us for even having the letters, are now quoting these letters? Even the Devil can quote the Bible?
Yes, much of this documentation was hidden. As soon as we and Sulochana began to print the hidden documents, he was killed and we would have been except the police saved us. We also got "the will" out of Hansadutta's safe, because "the will" was also being hidden. Everyone who got a copy of "the will" from us told us, they had never seen "the will" until we printed some copies and distributed around 1984.
You are correct, anyone who had these documents was being suppressed, anyone who wanted these documents was being kicked out, any one who printed these documents was being hunted and maybe killed. You are quite right. Thus, much of the details of the ritvik order were being suppressed, and violently suppressed at that. So that means, there was no order for the 11 to be gurus because they were suppressing these documents. Otherwise, if there was a clear order for 11 gurus, why suppress it?
And yes, not many people wanted to even ask about these documents, since the goondas wanted to kill people who had the documents. That means, the documents did not appoint any gurus, so they had to suppress these documents. We were getting death threats the whole time because of exposing these documents, and would have been killed for even having these documents, without the help of the Berkeley police department.
We also did not get the poison tapes until 1997. And when we did get these tapes, Tamal blew his fuses because he did not want these documents to surface. He started a witch hunt to find out how we even got these tapes. So you are right, all along they have been suppressing all these documents.
Thus, none of this came out right away, including the poison issue, we simply did not have these documents. That is why we have been in the cross hairs of the GBC's goonda program the whole time, we discovered and then published these documents. Even our own friends said we'd be dead in 24 hours for releasing the poison tapes, all this was being suppressed, and violently suppressed.]
AD: Another ritvik vada messiah Gauridas pandit das was even more than that, in the same forgetfullness period he was pleading TKG for to initate his wife.Very strange is how the idea was born, exactly after B.R.Sridhar swami has established rtvik in his math to be followed after his death.Thus the higher authorities from the 11zonal acaryas scam meet again.
[PADA: It really did not matter if we had any of these original documents or not, because most of us already did not want to worship the 11 "new gurus" in 1978, because we already knew they are not qualified to be acharyas. We had enough information even by 1978 to know that the 11 guru's program -- is a scam, it just took us time, and a few dead bodies, to uncover these documents. The documents were hidden for a reason, there was no guru appointment found therein.
The GBC system made by Srila Prabhupada was only authorized to act as administrators and not as acharyas. To sum: here is what we think may have happened; (A) Srila Prabhupada said he is being poisoned; (B) They hid all of his important documents, then (C) They banned, beat and killed those of us "asking questions about the documents." Typical smash and grab takeover. And that is also why we suspect other deaths, like that of Taru, Chatur Bahu, Aindra and others, were part of the plan to suppress us. ys pd]
==================================
Appointment tape imbroglio: http://youtu.be/D_ogsiUTOa8
Sridhara Maharaja assists GBC gurus: http://youtu.be/oFjove-LKKE
Is the poison in the milk? http://youtu.be/xJOBnc4pjqA
[PADA: Correct. For a very long time we did not have many of the key documents -- such as: The July 9th letter; The appointment tape; The letters; The 1977 conversations and so on, all of this was being hidden by the leaders. Sulochana gave us "the appointment tape" and a microfiche of "the letters" in 1984 (he bribed someone to get copies).
The 1977 "conversations" were also not printed by the archives until 1990. The poison tapes were also missing and we only got those in 1997. Of course, now some of the foolish members of the GBC's guru cult quote these same letters to us, forgetting that we were being threatened with death for even having those exact same letters in 1984. Sulochana told us -- he was told he would be "dead meat on a hook" by a GBC guru -- if he did not return the letter's microfiche. So apparently, the same party that wanted to kill us for even having the letters, are now quoting these letters? Even the Devil can quote the Bible?
Yes, much of this documentation was hidden. As soon as we and Sulochana began to print the hidden documents, he was killed and we would have been except the police saved us. We also got "the will" out of Hansadutta's safe, because "the will" was also being hidden. Everyone who got a copy of "the will" from us told us, they had never seen "the will" until we printed some copies and distributed around 1984.
You are correct, anyone who had these documents was being suppressed, anyone who wanted these documents was being kicked out, any one who printed these documents was being hunted and maybe killed. You are quite right. Thus, much of the details of the ritvik order were being suppressed, and violently suppressed at that. So that means, there was no order for the 11 to be gurus because they were suppressing these documents. Otherwise, if there was a clear order for 11 gurus, why suppress it?
And yes, not many people wanted to even ask about these documents, since the goondas wanted to kill people who had the documents. That means, the documents did not appoint any gurus, so they had to suppress these documents. We were getting death threats the whole time because of exposing these documents, and would have been killed for even having these documents, without the help of the Berkeley police department.
We also did not get the poison tapes until 1997. And when we did get these tapes, Tamal blew his fuses because he did not want these documents to surface. He started a witch hunt to find out how we even got these tapes. So you are right, all along they have been suppressing all these documents.
Thus, none of this came out right away, including the poison issue, we simply did not have these documents. That is why we have been in the cross hairs of the GBC's goonda program the whole time, we discovered and then published these documents. Even our own friends said we'd be dead in 24 hours for releasing the poison tapes, all this was being suppressed, and violently suppressed.]
AD: Another ritvik vada messiah Gauridas pandit das was even more than that, in the same forgetfullness period he was pleading TKG for to initate his wife.Very strange is how the idea was born, exactly after B.R.Sridhar swami has established rtvik in his math to be followed after his death.Thus the higher authorities from the 11zonal acaryas scam meet again.
[PADA: It really did not matter if we had any of these original documents or not, because most of us already did not want to worship the 11 "new gurus" in 1978, because we already knew they are not qualified to be acharyas. We had enough information even by 1978 to know that the 11 guru's program -- is a scam, it just took us time, and a few dead bodies, to uncover these documents. The documents were hidden for a reason, there was no guru appointment found therein.
The GBC system made by Srila Prabhupada was only authorized to act as administrators and not as acharyas. To sum: here is what we think may have happened; (A) Srila Prabhupada said he is being poisoned; (B) They hid all of his important documents, then (C) They banned, beat and killed those of us "asking questions about the documents." Typical smash and grab takeover. And that is also why we suspect other deaths, like that of Taru, Chatur Bahu, Aindra and others, were part of the plan to suppress us. ys pd]
==================================
Appointment tape imbroglio: http://youtu.be/D_ogsiUTOa8
Sridhara Maharaja assists GBC gurus: http://youtu.be/oFjove-LKKE
Is the poison in the milk? http://youtu.be/xJOBnc4pjqA
Lets begin with the July 9th 1977 letter.
ReplyDelete[PADA: That is not how you would win in actual court? lets take one letter out of the context of hundreds of 1977 conversations that were hidden. This would never be accepted in a formal debate either, we are going to take one item out of the context of hundreds of other materials. That is not how to understand the issue, by taking one part out of context.]
*** This letter was addressed to all the temple presidents who was then to follow the new procedure which was to sent their request for initiation of new devotees to the 11 seniors disciples named in the letter.
[PADA: This was not a new procedure, ritvik initiations were already going on since the early 1970s. The only thing that changed here was that a certain group was being named, of course some of them had already been doing the ceremonies like Kirtanananda.
And the letter never said that the process would stop upon the departure of Srila Prabhupada either. That is why this letter was hidden, as was the appointment tape itself. As soon as we asked for the tape, we were kicked out. As soon as Sulochana published the tape, he was killed, etc. So it was not only hiding documents, it was suppressing documents with violence and murders.]
*** And from July 9th 1977 until Srila Prabhupada departed a couple of hundred devotees were initiated. You are saying that this letter was hidden. Our question is if this letter was hidden then what procedure did this temple presidents followed in order to get the new devotees initiated between July 9th until Nov. 27th 1977? Hare Krsna.
[PADA: The initiations were stopped so that when Srila Prabhupada departed they could claim these new devotees as their own disciples. They intentionally held back on initiations, so that in 1978 the GBC could declare that Jayatirtha is the newly annointed messiah of the jagat and the disciples belong to him. That's what they did, they stopped the process knowing that as soon as Srila Prabhupada departs we can claim them as our own, as occurred. So they repressed these documents, and even killed people for for forwarding these documents, which itself proves they are bogus. If the guru appointment was so clear, why was everything hidden? ys pd]
First of all dear Puranjana dasa, this is not a court of law.
ReplyDelete[PADA: There is no evidence that your idea works, no one here is interested, that means the court of public opinion has already judged that your living gurus are a bogus idea. We won that argument, we are moving ahead, the living gurus program is fading out.]
There are no judges, no juries etc. , just you, me and the readers.
[PADA: Their temples are empty, and another group of kulis wants to sue them, your living gurus have no credibility.]
As for being out of context, you do that all the time and every time when you publish your readers comments and reply according to that to give a favorable view towards your ritvik ideology preaching.
[PADA: People are favoring our idea, thats a fact. Our process is expanding, and the living guru program is diminishing, and there are reports of their temples falling apart, closing, having rats, etc. and we are not writing that ourselves, people are sending us these news items. People are now writing that they want another lawsuit, we are not writing that, the people are writing that. Your idea is failing, its that simple.]
You do this like a karmi politician. The July 9th letter is the basis of your ritvik ideology.
[PADA: No, this letter has nothing to do with anything I am doing since 1970? I never even saw the July 9th letter until 1984, it was not circulated. And when we began to circulate documents we were being beaten and killed. I already knew I was going to preach that Prabhupada is the guru in 1970. I have no concern that I would have needed a 1977 letter to do that, and never did. You keep saying I needed a letter to glorify my guru, I need no such letter and never did. You are a liar. Even if that letter did not exist, the principle is that we neophytes give others our guru, that was my idea in 1970, that is still my idea, and will always be my idea, it has nothing to do with one 1977 letter, you keep making this up, its a lie. I never once said this letter was the basis of my idea, I said that my idea was always since 1970 to promote my guru. I do not need a 1977 letter to do that, and you are making it up when you say that I relied on that letter. I never knew about this letter at the start in 1970, and after 1977 it was hidden and not circulated. I asked for these items and did not get them. I never needed these items, I already knew who the guru is and who I am going to promote. You keep re-writing my history, that is foolish and a lie.]
This letter is what the ritviks use as evidence to claim that Srila Prabhupada wanted post samadhi ritvik initiation, that he wanted to continue to be the initiating spiritual master and continue to accept disciples even after his departure from this planet which Srila Prabhupada never ever said that he would. You condemn Tamal Krishna a liar, a cheat and whatnot and yet you and the ritviks see nothing wrong in using his Topanga Canyon Pyramid House conversation and the July 9th 1977 letter which he wrote as proof to back your claims that Srila Prabhupada.
[PADA: OK so in 1970 I knew I was going to preach that Srila Prabhupada is the guru, this had nothing to do with 1977, or Topanga, or Tamal, or anything else, all that is not having anything to do with my original 1970 idea, I am going to promote Srila Prabhupada as the guru, that is what I already knew then. I do not need all these other items to know that is right, I already knew what was right in 1970. You keep lying that I needed this and that, its all lies, I never needed any of these things, a disciple promotes his guru, that is the system, that is what I am doing. If you think I cannot do that unless there is some letter, that is totally a lie, I never needed such a letter, quit making this up as you go along. I know who to promote as the guru since 1970, do not tell me I need a letter to know that, this is totally trying to re-write my life, its a total lie. I know who is my guru, I do not need a letter to verify that. You need a letter, I need nothing, I already know who is the acharya. ys pd]
ReplyDeleteYes Wyatt does not get it, the thousands of people who are all worshiping Prabhupada all over the world now are doing so because they read his books, just like we read his books and accepted in 1970, they are not sitting around all day reading the July 9th letter, they are way past all that.
ReplyDeleteThey worship the acharya because he is the acharya, not because they read a letter somewhere telling them to worship the acharya? No! They worship the acharya because worship of the acharya is the eternal process of Vedic culture. No letter is needed, they read the books and they already know that they are supposed to accept and worship the acharya.
We knew that same thing in 1970 as well, these Wyatt people think you need a letter to authorize you to worship of the acharya, that means they will be sitting around their whole lives wasting their human existence, waiting for some so-called letter, when the books say acharya upasanam, we have to worship the acharya, all over the place its all over these books. They are wasting their lives, their letter will never come, Srila Prabhupada said -- everything I have to say is in my books, and the books say, you need to worship the acharya, there is nothing further that needs to be explained.Either you accept what he said in 1970, and said all along, or you do not. ys pd