Friday, February 21, 2014

Krishna Kant (IRM) on "Various Camps and Groups"

Krishna Kant (IRM): The reasons why Srila Prabhupada’s disciples have disobeyed him and instead created a bogus Guru system vary from individual to individual, but the basic motives are similar: position, control, followers, honour, distinction etc. Unfortunately, if these desires remain, then even if one rejects the bogus Guru system in ISKCON, one will simply replace it with another deviation, which still allows these desires for distinction, honour etc to be satisfied.

Thus we are seeing many attempts to “reform” or replace the ISKCON Guru with other solutions, usually by persons who themselves could not “make it” in the current Guru system, or who want to become independent of GBC and Guru control, which fall short of the real solution – the original ISKCON, as left us by Srila Prabhupada in 1977: an international society of devotees working together coast to coast, governed by a bona-fide GBC, following the initiation system exactly as left by Srila Prabhupada in 1977 via the July 9th directive. We outline here these many varieties of deviation.

[PADA: OK, however all of the people who left ISKCON have to work independently in any case. We simply cannot make "the original ISKCON" without having legal control over the ISKCON title and name. The idea we have to operate as "ISKCON" is a little impractical to say the least. We cannot legally do that at the present time. Right now the GBC is also spending $20 million dollars suing our associated devotees who want to use the name of ISKCON. To imply that anyone who does not use the name of ISKCON is creating another deviation is mis-leading. Can Krishna Kanta start to use the name of ISKCON himself? No, he will be sued, he is not using that name either.]

*** KK: 1) We need ANOTHER Srila Prabhupada. This takes two forms

a) Look for an elderly Indian who will not fall down. We have seen a mass exodus from ISKCON motivated by its crumbling and failing Guru system, to the relatively “safe” (in terms of fall down) elderly Indian Swamis; HH Narayana Maharaja of the Gaudiya Matha being the most prominent.

b) Wait for the self-effulgent acarya. Those who do not like the current Gurus, basically use the ritvik system as an excuse to reject the current Gurus, with Srila Prabhupada being merely a convenient “stop-gap” while they wait for the “real” Guru to emerge – which of course could very well be one of the same people who are following this philosophy! This is also known as “soft” or temporary ritvik.

2) Srila Prabhupada is ALMOST the Guru: In this variation, Srila Prabhupada is again used to reject the current Gurus, but the back door is still kept open for the followers of this system to maybe also become some sort of Gurus one day. This takes many forms such as:

a) Srila Prabhupada is the MAIN Guru: But we still need “pancaratika” Gurus/officiating acaryas who would still have “disciples”, even though Srila Prabhupada is the MAIN object of worship.

b) Srila Prabhupada is the PROMINENT Guru: But the current gurus can also remain side-by-side, and the disciples will effectively have two Gurus – Srila Prabhupada as Major Guru, and the current Gurus as Minor Guru. Arguing that we must have 2 diksa Gurus -one who gives the transcendental knowledge, and another who gives the “formal diksa”, or that we must follow the Ramanuja sampradaya system of one “acarya-Guru” for everyone along with “individual Gurus”, also fall under this category.

3) Set up your own matha / society. Appearing to come closer to the real solution is the variation which correctly accepts that Srila Prabhupada is the only Guru for all time in ISKCON, and then uses that to reject all authority, and set up one’s own matha / temple /society, completely independent of anyone’s else control.
This allows one or a small number of connected individuals to seize control of devotees and assets and assume absolute power for themselves.

[PADA: OK, most devotees are independent of the authority of Krishna Kanta and his IRM. What is the reason they should start to work under his supervision? Why doesn't Krishna Kanta form a cooperative network and work with some of these "independent programs" and try to form some sort of alliance? 

The present and immediate future for most of us Prabhupadanugas is, -- most of us ALREADY have to operate as independent programs. We are really not capable of "seizing control" of much of anything. For the most part, the Prabhupadanugas are preaching utilizing small scale operations -- such as small-scale home programs and so on. 

There are almost no "devotees and assets" remaining to seize. This is again mis-leading, there is no big seizure of manpower and assets going on, even formal ISKCON has fewer and fewer assets and people every day. This approach is out of touch with the actual situation.]

*** KK: Also, but not always, another feature of this system is that the ‘GBC / Ritvik / Temple President’ are usually collapsed into one single person or group of persons controlled by one person, who will then act as a self-appointed “ritvik acarya” to dispense “ritvik initiations” like confetti to anyone and everyone.

[PADA: That may be happening in some cases, however for the most part people are being scrutinized before getting a ritvik initiation. Again this is misleading, there are not many ritvik initiations going on at all, period, what to speak of being dispensed like confetti. This is simply out of touch with the reality on the ground.]

*** KK: This allows the “ritvik-acarya” to promote himself as the “giver of initiation” (rather like the bogus Gurus do), and hence take on some status vis-a-vis those seeking initiation “from Srila Prabhupada.” Eventually however, by its very nature, this system merely spawns another Gaudiya Matha scenario, when others realize that if anyone can set themselves up with a matha/temple and offer initiation, then even they can do so, and eventually you result in a series of many individual mathas all competing with each other to offer the gift of being initiated as Srila Prabhupada’s disciple.

[PADA: OK so what system does Krishna Kanta propose as an alternate?]

*** KK: Another variation is to simply use the problems in ISKCON as an excuse to say we must reject ISKCON in toto and form our own new society, just like Srila Prabhupada did with the Gaudiya Matha.

[PADA: Krishna Kant first started out saying he was the IRG, the ISKCON Reform Group, then he became the IRM, the ISKCON Reform Movement, now he says he is a Prabhupadanuga, which is what we called our group at the outset in the early 1980s. However, he never calls himself ISKCON. He cannot do that, we cannot do that, its illegal and not practical to order people to use a legal name they do not have the rights to use. This is out of touch with the reality on the ground.] 

*** KK: It is pointed out that Srila Prabhupada did not try and preach to the Gaudiya Matha, but just formed his own new society called ISKCON. This analogy however fails due to one big difference – Srila Prabhupada is the Acarya, and therefore can set up his own society, as acaryas do – but we are not acaryas, only disciples, and therefore must simply try and work under the parameters given by Srila Prabhupada.

[PADA: Except that Krishna Kanta has not been able to use the title of ISKCON all along, nor does he do so now. So he says we have to operate as ISKCON, but he does not have to? This is out of touch with the reality on the ground, never mind also hypocritical.] 

*** KK: 4) Only my issue matters: Another variation is to accept that ISKCON’s Guru system is completely bogus, but the solution is to not to re-build the real ISKCON with Srila Prabhupada as the Guru. Rather this issue is considered “less important” compared to what ever individual “issue” is being pushed at the time – such as ”cow-protection,” “poison issue,” “women’s issue,” “varnasrama,” etc. Usually there can be as many “answers,” and “solutions,” all portending to offer the “REAL” fix as there are individuals.

[PADA: We never said that the poison issue would fix anything, but it is something that needs to be addressed. To say that Srila Prabhupada's varnasrama plan is an individual agenda is wrong and tries to confute his plan. Varnasrama and cow protection are important for Srila Prabhupada's plans, and we should be glad some people are reminding us of that. These are not individual agendas, they are the instructions of the pure devotee. 

If these items are not the important issues, what is the important issue? Stopping our idea of using the criminality argument is why the Bangalore case has dragged on for decades. In 1997 Krishna Kanta told the Bangalore folks not to bring out the molesting issue, poison issue, criminal issue, and the result was and is -- the Bangalore court case has dragged on endlessly because they failed to bring out the key issues at the outset.]  

*** KK: However, beginning with the solution that Srila Prabhupada is alone the real Guru for all of humanity for the next many thousands of years has to be the foundation required before anything else can be resolved. Only once this foundation is in place, can we even begin to fix individual symptoms of this root disease of disobedience to Srila Prabhupada.

[PADA: That is the foundation, but all the other parts of the building are also required. We need temples, farms and other similar programs. We need to address the lack of varnasrama, lack of cow protection, and so on and so forth -- as well as all the other issues. In sum, we need everyone to participate, and that is why we should form an alliance and not jettison important things like the poison complaint, the book changes issue, and similar related issues, all these issues are connected together. 

We need to address all the important issues, not toss them out and not address them. The people who are addressing the poison issue, book changes issue, lack of temples issue, and all these issues, already accept the foundation. We need to now build from there. We already have an alliance of devotees around the world who already accepted the foundation a long time ago, its now time to refine and build upon that foundation.] 

*** KK: Due to all the many different varieties of half-baked and incomplete alternatives to ISKCON’s false Guru system listed above, we have many fractured camps, all claiming to offer an alternative to ISKCON. However replacing the current ISKCON with another deviation in the form of a “ritvik” Gaudiya Matha, with dozens of little societies each with their own self-appointed acaryas/leaders, is not the answer – for two wrongs never make a right.

[PADA: And you are one of the competing camps, you are not cooperating with others.]

The actual solution: Give Srila Prabhupada back the ISKCON he bequeathed us in 1977, with the same standards, systems and structure in place, for initiation and everything else, with no shortcuts and half-measures, due to a desire to get some short-term benefit in our own lifetimes as quickly as possible. Rather, our mission is to create a real bona fide functioning ISKCON, which was Srila Prabhupada’s mission, which will benefit future generations for thousands of years.

[PADA: OK, except our idea was to get people to follow Srila Prabhupada first of all, then the society will manifest later on spontaneously. And that is now happening, a worldwide alliance is now forming. Srila Prabhupada said if the preaching is good then management will follow like a shadow. The IRM folks, the Rocana sector, the Kailash chandra sector, the Mukunda / Prahlad sector, and many similar others like that, all of these types of folks need to at least rent a room or a big hall once a week and start to conduct public preaching programs, kirtanas, prasadam etc. That is the real foundation that is lacking in all these groups. They all have "the real idea," but the real idea is preaching. At least we have some sort of public preaching going on here, that is what we need now more than anything else. ys pd] 

1 comment:

  1. Krishna Kant wrote this 8 years ago.

    [PADA: Krishna Kanta still alienates all the people who are investigating the poison issue, who are wanting to form a cow protection program, who are making home preaching programs etc. etc. which he considers as "independent from ISKCON," and so on and so forth. Our home programs are making new devotees, instead of his still saying this is bogus, he should applaud these efforts. He still says our independent programs idea is bogus, but that process is making devotees. Meanwhile where are the Prabhupadanuga independent preaching programs in UK?]

    Now eight years later PADA figures to post a friendly fire? This article was written for their magazine BACK TO PRABHUPADA, what is read by all kind of people up to university professors of theology.

    [PADA: Well ok, so he is writing to others that our independent preaching of all of our independent programs is bogus, how does that help? The GBC is bad, the Prabhupadanuga's preaching is bad, he is another Rocana / Kailash / Prahlad. He has nothing to offer others by simply chopping off the legs of the other preachers.]

    PADA seems to only focus on what is discussed among his group of followers who never address people in general but discuss topics in private - what is important from their point of angle. However, when addressing all kind of people via a magazine things have to be presented as general survey, general layout. How ISKCON should be managed on a worldwide scale.

    [PADA: OK, except, the world wide movement is our independent programs? He wants a world wide movement, but he is attacking the world wide movement?]

    Agreed, there are now a few Prabhupadanugas sitting in their private homes and all day doing things according their specific significance. Naturally these devotees figure that all this doesn't make sense to there present situation. They can't see beyond their individual parameter so to speak. Of course PADA did realize that in this situation there is lots of scope for different opinion. o

    [PADA: Right now we need more action to make independent program and less opinions. We need some practical examples of the opinion. If Krishna Kanta wanted to help things, he would start by removing all of his attacks on others from his web sites and start to join hands with these "independent groups." He is not doing that either. ys pd


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