Bharata das: The SAC (Shastric Advisory Committee) is supposed to a neutral, apolitical committee of senior devotees notable for their sagacity, deep knowledge of sastra and realization. Instead it has become a political instrument to push forward at any cost the Female Diksha Guru agenda. Except for Srila Prabhupada disciples Urmila dasi, Drutakarma das, Mukunda Datta das, and Narayani dasi all the rest are unknown junior devotees who have been especially chosen to be on the SAC for the simple reason that they pass the pro-FDG litmus test, no other qualification required. The list of shame, that is, of corrupt SAC membership is as follows:
Chairman – Yadunandana Swami. Secretary Madana-mohana das. Members: Urmila dasi, Drutakarma das, Narayani dasi, Adi-purusa das, Isvarakrsna das, Caitanya-carana das, Sarvajna das, Vinoda-bihari das.
[PADA: The first problem is that the GBC's appointed a "Shastric Advisory Committee" (SAC) was formed to advise and correct the bogus GBC's gurus, forgetting that gurus are not subordinate to a committee? Then, when the SAC says the GBC needs to vote in women as their gurus, they are forgetting that Srila Prabhupada said -- gurus are not voted in at all, whether male or female, because that is not our process. Next problem, some of the GBC gurus are not accepting the views of the SAC, such as Bhakti Vikas swami. Thus the guru advisory committee is only being accepted by part of the GBC. Next problem, since gurus are all one in agreement, there is no explanation why these gurus are always fighting over these issues?]
BD: We note that the chairman Yadunandana Swami is principle for the so-called "Bhaktivedanta College" a non-traditional (not according to parampara standards) co-educational school where the sexes freely mix. As one former student described it, "it's not just a school, it's a date." However, I do not want to digress into bashing that school, though perhaps in a future article we shall. The point being that this school and its principle are very left of center, another way of saying, a weak link in the parampara. So with him as chairman of the SAC what outcome could be expected regarding any paper the SAC would do on the topic of Female Diksha Guru? As Mukunda Datta Prabhu puts it, it was a foregone conclusion and the SAC imprimatur was just a perfunctory show.
[PADA: The first problem is that the GBC's appointed a "Shastric Advisory Committee" (SAC) was formed to advise and correct the bogus GBC's gurus, forgetting that gurus are not subordinate to a committee? Then, when the SAC says the GBC needs to vote in women as their gurus, they are forgetting that Srila Prabhupada said -- gurus are not voted in at all, whether male or female, because that is not our process. Next problem, some of the GBC gurus are not accepting the views of the SAC, such as Bhakti Vikas swami. Thus the guru advisory committee is only being accepted by part of the GBC. Next problem, since gurus are all one in agreement, there is no explanation why these gurus are always fighting over these issues?]
BD: We note that the chairman Yadunandana Swami is principle for the so-called "Bhaktivedanta College" a non-traditional (not according to parampara standards) co-educational school where the sexes freely mix. As one former student described it, "it's not just a school, it's a date." However, I do not want to digress into bashing that school, though perhaps in a future article we shall. The point being that this school and its principle are very left of center, another way of saying, a weak link in the parampara. So with him as chairman of the SAC what outcome could be expected regarding any paper the SAC would do on the topic of Female Diksha Guru? As Mukunda Datta Prabhu puts it, it was a foregone conclusion and the SAC imprimatur was just a perfunctory show.
[PADA: Well right, the SAC is a show bottle / smoke screen / to obfuscate the real issue, that the GBC are not authorized to vote in any gurus, or to appoint a committee to monitor and advise gurus.].
BD: We also note that Adi-purusa Prabhu is also a member, he works for Prasanta Mataji's VIHE and does what she tells him to do. Considering that Prasanta Mataji is a major player in the Women's Ministry with major ambitions to become a guru herself then we can see why he was chosen.
[PADA: It is however amazing that after all the belly flops, tail-spins, criminal exposes, lurid tales of sexual deviations, and a whole pile of assorted failures and fall downs of the GBC's guru sabha as a group, that anyone would STILL want to be "voted in" as a member of this group -- which has about zero credibility. Apparently, ego and vanity has no limits, whether for males or females.]
BD: Caitanya-caran das, another unknown, has recently published a spat of articles on Dandavats. Just wanted to let innocent readers know so that they can "consider the source" before reading his texts.
[PADA: Right, some of the followers of Bhakti Vikas swami complain that they are not allowed to post on the official ISKCON Dandavats site, thus even among the GBC's gurus camps some gurus and their followers are censured, censored, banned, banished and so on and so forth. Meanwhile, Bhakti Vikas swami went too far the other direction, trying to minimize the status of women, and he ended up upsetting and alienating a lot of women.]
BD: As for the senior devotees, we always wondered why Drutakarma Prabhu was on this committee. He is certainly not known as a learned scholar of Krsna's Vedic culture and civilization, although he does know something about archeology. We need people with deep knowledge of Vedic culture to be on SAC, that is not Drutakarma Prabhu.
[PADA: We once encountered Druktakarma on the sidewalk in Los Angeles and told him, our only complaint is that the GBC says illicit sex is part of the guru parampara from Krishna. He sort of smirked, shrugged his shoulders, and went away without commenting. OK he was defeated, he knows that we are correct. Since he does not seem to have any idea about guru tattva, he should not be consulted on these issues.]
BD: To give an example, in the 2005 pro-FDG paper that he co-wrote for the SAC along with Purnacandra Swami, Drutakarma made a statement to the effect that the Pancaratra is recent in comparison to the Vedas. In actuality, Pancaratra is part of the Vedas and is mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad as the practice followed by the "Ekantas" -- those who are one pointed in worshiping Lord Krsna. This point about the origin of Pancaratra was explained in great depth by both Yamunacarya and Vedantadesika from Sri Sampradaya. So while Drutakarma Prabhu may be ISKCON's "bone" expert, he is not knowledgeable in many important aspects of Vedic culture.
BD: We also note that Adi-purusa Prabhu is also a member, he works for Prasanta Mataji's VIHE and does what she tells him to do. Considering that Prasanta Mataji is a major player in the Women's Ministry with major ambitions to become a guru herself then we can see why he was chosen.
[PADA: It is however amazing that after all the belly flops, tail-spins, criminal exposes, lurid tales of sexual deviations, and a whole pile of assorted failures and fall downs of the GBC's guru sabha as a group, that anyone would STILL want to be "voted in" as a member of this group -- which has about zero credibility. Apparently, ego and vanity has no limits, whether for males or females.]
BD: Caitanya-caran das, another unknown, has recently published a spat of articles on Dandavats. Just wanted to let innocent readers know so that they can "consider the source" before reading his texts.
[PADA: Right, some of the followers of Bhakti Vikas swami complain that they are not allowed to post on the official ISKCON Dandavats site, thus even among the GBC's gurus camps some gurus and their followers are censured, censored, banned, banished and so on and so forth. Meanwhile, Bhakti Vikas swami went too far the other direction, trying to minimize the status of women, and he ended up upsetting and alienating a lot of women.]
BD: As for the senior devotees, we always wondered why Drutakarma Prabhu was on this committee. He is certainly not known as a learned scholar of Krsna's Vedic culture and civilization, although he does know something about archeology. We need people with deep knowledge of Vedic culture to be on SAC, that is not Drutakarma Prabhu.
[PADA: We once encountered Druktakarma on the sidewalk in Los Angeles and told him, our only complaint is that the GBC says illicit sex is part of the guru parampara from Krishna. He sort of smirked, shrugged his shoulders, and went away without commenting. OK he was defeated, he knows that we are correct. Since he does not seem to have any idea about guru tattva, he should not be consulted on these issues.]
BD: To give an example, in the 2005 pro-FDG paper that he co-wrote for the SAC along with Purnacandra Swami, Drutakarma made a statement to the effect that the Pancaratra is recent in comparison to the Vedas. In actuality, Pancaratra is part of the Vedas and is mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad as the practice followed by the "Ekantas" -- those who are one pointed in worshiping Lord Krsna. This point about the origin of Pancaratra was explained in great depth by both Yamunacarya and Vedantadesika from Sri Sampradaya. So while Drutakarma Prabhu may be ISKCON's "bone" expert, he is not knowledgeable in many important aspects of Vedic culture.
[PADA: Correct, the GBC sometimes tries to argue that their gurus are "pancaratrika gurus," oops, except no gurus are ever found to be engaged in illicit sex, its just not what gurus are engaged in. This is another smokescreen to make them appear as authorized.]
BD: Another troubling fact about Drutakarma Prabhu is that he is closely aligned with Hrdayananda dasa Goswami. As the Spanish saying goes, "tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are."
[PADA: Hah hah, well yes, Hrdayananda is perhaps the most joked about "guru" in their lot.]
BD: Let us not forget the ladies -- Urmila and Narayani Matajis, neither of whom are known as deeply learned scholars. (Their main qualification seems to be their gender.) This fact especially in regards to Urmila Mataji has been recently demonstrated by Agnideva Prabhu in his article, cited above, as well as by other devotees, especially Bhaktilata Mataji.
On several occasions Bhaktilata Mataji made a fool out of Urmila dd, like the time Urmila claimed that if a devotee lady follows Stri-dharma it is material. Bhaktilata Mataji showed with abundant evidence that according to sastra, a Vaisnavai who follows Stri-dharma goes back to Godhead. How then could something material get us back to Godhead? Urmila dd could not respond. Ironically Urmila dd brags on her Facebook page that the GBC often asks her for advice. If this is the case, then that answers a lot of questions about the performance of the GBC.
[PADA: Well she is right, they do ask her for advice, and that itself shows the lack of ability of the GBC as a group, that they end us asking "advice" from Sridhara Maharaja, others from the Gaudiya Matha, the SAC, Urmila and so on and so forth, thus proving they have little understanding of their own.]
BD: However, the fact that these two women are not actually qualified is not my point, but rather that they are dishonest. As Mukunda Datta Prabhu points out in his letter, both Urmila dd and Narayani dd have strong ambitions to be gurus. The SAC was tasked to write a paper on the FDG issue.
So this becomes a very clear conflict of interest on their part. When there is a conflict of interest an honest person will recuse themselves from the matter. They did not. Instead they actively participated in writing the SAC paper to further their own ambitions. Didn't we learn our lessons with materially ambitious and dishonest men in the past? Is there some rule that says that we must now also have an equal number of materially ambitious and dishonest women to make trouble in ISKCON and disturb Lord Caitanya's preaching mission?
[PADA: Yep, why should we get rid of one group of motivated and foolish people, to replace them with another group with the same dubious qualifications? "Meet the new boss, same as the told boss."]
BD: We also note that the SAC Chairman, Yadunandana Swami considered confidentiality of SAC business to be more important than the honesty and the neutrality of SAC. In this way he hoped to hide the corruption in SAC because such corruption should be confidential knowledge and kept away from the public. Things are so bad at the SAC that because of distrust in regards to the neutrality and sagacity of the GBC's SAC, ISKCON India has created its own SAC to get competent advice on important matters.
[PADA: Oh swell, the first group of advisors appointed by the GBC's messiahs project are bogus, thus some of the messiahs had to appoint yet another competing group of advisors, because the first group of advisors "advice" was bogus and thus was not being accepted by the messiahs -- who created the first advisory group in the first place. Where do they come up with this stuff? This makes us want to take our percodans now, our head is about to explode.]
And, on the basis of this advice the leadership of ISKCON India is strongly opposed to implementing Female Diksha Gurus in ISKCON. In conclusion, the Sastric Advisory Committee has in the very short time of its existence become thoroughly corrupted. It needs to be completely overhauled and the tainted members removed. If these persons are left to remain then the effect will be the same as leaving a trace of yogurt in a pot and filling it with new milk - in the morning you will have a new pot of yogurt.
Yhs Bharata dasa
[PADA: The whole idea that the acharyas need a shastric advisory committee in the first place is itself totally corrupt and no small amount of bogus. ys pd]
===============================
Srila Prabhupada did say various thing about female gurus.
Conversations : 1972 Conversations : May, 1972 : Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego : 720629R2.SD :.
Prabhupāda: So a crazy man's statement is not accepted. Child's statement, crazy man's statement, unauthorized person's statement, blind man's statement, we cannot accept.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: A woman's statement?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: A woman's...
Prabhupāda: If a woman is perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like Jāhnavā-devī, Lord Nityānanda's wife, she was ācārya. She was ācārya. She was controlling the whole Vaiṣṇava community.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Lord Nityānanda?
Prabhupāda: Wife. Jāhnavā-devī. She was controlling the whole Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava community.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Do you have references about that in any of your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I don't think. But there are many ācāryas. Maybe somewhere I might have mentioned. It is not that woman cannot be ācārya. Generally, they do not become. In very special case. But Jāhnavā-devī was accepted as, but she did not declare.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Women today..., there is a very popular topic amongst women. They speak of liberation. And their desire to be liberated is sane, but they do not understand. And they object very strongly... I've spoken to some of these so-called liberated women, and they object strongly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they think we discriminate against women. So I have been taking advantage of opportunities to describe to them that the only means to liberation for men and woman is through Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not make any discrimination. Kṛṣṇa does not make. Whatever difference is there, it is bodily difference. But as soul, there is equality. So whatever difference we make, that is bodily difference. So when one is above the bodily concept of life, there is no difference. Why woman? Even cats and dogs. Woman is human being. Even cats and dogs, they have got the same spirit soul. So a learned scholar will see from the spiritual platform. Then there is equality.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. This woman liberation movement, they speak like that, but they try to control every man with their body, they try to control their mind. And I told them, when you stop doing that, you're liberated. and they talk, they talk all the time, but they're still playing woman games.
BD: Another troubling fact about Drutakarma Prabhu is that he is closely aligned with Hrdayananda dasa Goswami. As the Spanish saying goes, "tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are."
[PADA: Hah hah, well yes, Hrdayananda is perhaps the most joked about "guru" in their lot.]
BD: Let us not forget the ladies -- Urmila and Narayani Matajis, neither of whom are known as deeply learned scholars. (Their main qualification seems to be their gender.) This fact especially in regards to Urmila Mataji has been recently demonstrated by Agnideva Prabhu in his article, cited above, as well as by other devotees, especially Bhaktilata Mataji.
On several occasions Bhaktilata Mataji made a fool out of Urmila dd, like the time Urmila claimed that if a devotee lady follows Stri-dharma it is material. Bhaktilata Mataji showed with abundant evidence that according to sastra, a Vaisnavai who follows Stri-dharma goes back to Godhead. How then could something material get us back to Godhead? Urmila dd could not respond. Ironically Urmila dd brags on her Facebook page that the GBC often asks her for advice. If this is the case, then that answers a lot of questions about the performance of the GBC.
[PADA: Well she is right, they do ask her for advice, and that itself shows the lack of ability of the GBC as a group, that they end us asking "advice" from Sridhara Maharaja, others from the Gaudiya Matha, the SAC, Urmila and so on and so forth, thus proving they have little understanding of their own.]
BD: However, the fact that these two women are not actually qualified is not my point, but rather that they are dishonest. As Mukunda Datta Prabhu points out in his letter, both Urmila dd and Narayani dd have strong ambitions to be gurus. The SAC was tasked to write a paper on the FDG issue.
So this becomes a very clear conflict of interest on their part. When there is a conflict of interest an honest person will recuse themselves from the matter. They did not. Instead they actively participated in writing the SAC paper to further their own ambitions. Didn't we learn our lessons with materially ambitious and dishonest men in the past? Is there some rule that says that we must now also have an equal number of materially ambitious and dishonest women to make trouble in ISKCON and disturb Lord Caitanya's preaching mission?
[PADA: Yep, why should we get rid of one group of motivated and foolish people, to replace them with another group with the same dubious qualifications? "Meet the new boss, same as the told boss."]
BD: We also note that the SAC Chairman, Yadunandana Swami considered confidentiality of SAC business to be more important than the honesty and the neutrality of SAC. In this way he hoped to hide the corruption in SAC because such corruption should be confidential knowledge and kept away from the public. Things are so bad at the SAC that because of distrust in regards to the neutrality and sagacity of the GBC's SAC, ISKCON India has created its own SAC to get competent advice on important matters.
[PADA: Oh swell, the first group of advisors appointed by the GBC's messiahs project are bogus, thus some of the messiahs had to appoint yet another competing group of advisors, because the first group of advisors "advice" was bogus and thus was not being accepted by the messiahs -- who created the first advisory group in the first place. Where do they come up with this stuff? This makes us want to take our percodans now, our head is about to explode.]
And, on the basis of this advice the leadership of ISKCON India is strongly opposed to implementing Female Diksha Gurus in ISKCON. In conclusion, the Sastric Advisory Committee has in the very short time of its existence become thoroughly corrupted. It needs to be completely overhauled and the tainted members removed. If these persons are left to remain then the effect will be the same as leaving a trace of yogurt in a pot and filling it with new milk - in the morning you will have a new pot of yogurt.
Yhs Bharata dasa
[PADA: The whole idea that the acharyas need a shastric advisory committee in the first place is itself totally corrupt and no small amount of bogus. ys pd]
===============================
Srila Prabhupada did say various thing about female gurus.
Conversations : 1972 Conversations : May, 1972 : Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego : 720629R2.SD :.
Prabhupāda: So a crazy man's statement is not accepted. Child's statement, crazy man's statement, unauthorized person's statement, blind man's statement, we cannot accept.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: A woman's statement?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: A woman's...
Prabhupāda: If a woman is perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like Jāhnavā-devī, Lord Nityānanda's wife, she was ācārya. She was ācārya. She was controlling the whole Vaiṣṇava community.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Lord Nityānanda?
Prabhupāda: Wife. Jāhnavā-devī. She was controlling the whole Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava community.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Do you have references about that in any of your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I don't think. But there are many ācāryas. Maybe somewhere I might have mentioned. It is not that woman cannot be ācārya. Generally, they do not become. In very special case. But Jāhnavā-devī was accepted as, but she did not declare.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Women today..., there is a very popular topic amongst women. They speak of liberation. And their desire to be liberated is sane, but they do not understand. And they object very strongly... I've spoken to some of these so-called liberated women, and they object strongly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they think we discriminate against women. So I have been taking advantage of opportunities to describe to them that the only means to liberation for men and woman is through Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not make any discrimination. Kṛṣṇa does not make. Whatever difference is there, it is bodily difference. But as soul, there is equality. So whatever difference we make, that is bodily difference. So when one is above the bodily concept of life, there is no difference. Why woman? Even cats and dogs. Woman is human being. Even cats and dogs, they have got the same spirit soul. So a learned scholar will see from the spiritual platform. Then there is equality.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. This woman liberation movement, they speak like that, but they try to control every man with their body, they try to control their mind. And I told them, when you stop doing that, you're liberated. and they talk, they talk all the time, but they're still playing woman games.
[PADA: It is however amazing that after all the belly flops, tail-spins, criminal exposes, lurid tales of sexual deviations, and a whole pile of assorted failures and fall downs of the GBC's guru sabha as a group, that anyone would STILL want to be "voted in" as a member of this group -- which has about zero credibility.]
ReplyDeleteRight there is no common sense even. ISKCON gurus are meant to convince new candidates, making new devotees. So far these gurus cannot make new devotees among the intelligent class of Westerners. No way whatsoever. Presently ISKCON gurus recruit devotees in 3rd world countries, and even there they have to go even lower to Vellore Central Prison, Tihar Jail Complex in New Delhi, Yerwada jail of Pune, Puzhal Central Prison, Rajahmundry Central Prison, Naini Central Prison.
Then there are India's biggest slums where JPS, Radhanatha, Gopal Krishna Goswami, Bhakti Vikasa swami and Bhakti Caru recruit their "thousands of disciples":
Arif Nagar, Arjun Singhpura,Arvinds Nagar, Banganga, Baiganwadi, Chowdhary Mohalla, Dharavi, Gandhi Nagar, Guda Upar, Harijan Mohalla, Indira Ekta Nagar, Indira Nagar, Kathputhli slum, Panchsheel Nagar, Pilkhana, Prem Sagar, Ramaji Ka pura, Rasulpura, Sahu Ji Ka Pura, Sanjay Nagar mumbi, Sarvodaya Nagar (Jabalpur), Sethi Sambandh Nagar, Supatal, Tekri Mohalla, Tikia Para, Vidya Nagar,Vadaj.
Like that.
Of course these new "devotees" are loyal in that sense that they a deeply grateful of having been removed from a wasteground/prison living condition. For this they defend their master like a bodyguard pitbull. To what extent these candidates are actually devotees, that remains to be seen.
In sum, Prabhupada instructed that devotees are rare. Among one mio people there is only one devotee. ISKCON's policy to mass kick out devotees is therefore fatalistic screwball madness.
This shows that they consider devotees as replaceable peons, cannon fodder and useless eaters.
Agreed,Prabhupada's western temples are empty. These buildings in the west are mortgaged to build projects in Asia where temples are being used to make money. To what extent this still has anything to do with Lord Caitanya's global Sankirtan movement is rather legal limbo, gray area? Any idea?
Perhaps the gurus of ISKCON today are better at picking up less intelligent disciples I do not know, but certainly Srila Prabhupada's books will have their effect on all classes of men and women anyway, regardless of the "gurus". So called, not genuine, "gurus" in name only have and will continue to try to trick new devotees into surrendering their all to the movement, and then once they are finished with them they kick them out, since they are going to simply cost them at that point. Disciples are meant to serve the guru, they think, not be maintained by the society, even though Srila Prabhupada had a different attitude and wanted to keep his disciples healthy.
DeletePrabhupada sent American money to India it's sad to think that now the Indian devotees' rupees are being turned to dollars to line the pockets of the bogus so called "gurus" in the West. However, people such as Urmila dd do not need a single rupee from anyone, she is giving lots of wealth of her own to the holy dham. And contrary to the article above, she is actually very highly learned in Srila Prabhupada's books.
Competing groups to come up with the absolute truth? Sounds like when they offer two different versions of the Bhagavad Gita as it is. There can only be one Gita as it is, the other would have to be as it is not, was not, and never shall be.
ReplyDeleteI suppose if they offer enough versions of the absolute truth the devotees can then pick and choose which one they feel comfortable with to still stay in the movement, just like when your guru gets caught sexing it up with somone they offer you three choices now. Choice A. pretend he is still a bona fide guru and "everyone has their problems once in a while". Choice B. Stay and SERVE in ISKCON and take shelter of Prabhupada and Choice C, fall for another guru who isn't bona fide and serve him. Choice D is never offered as an option anymore, although it used to be, and that is take on another genuine guru in ISKCON since they have tried that trick so often it doesn't fool anyone anymore. I'm not saying there aren't any genuine gurus in ISKCON I'm just saying whenever they tell devotees to take re-initiation from guru x instead of guru y or z guru x seems to be just as fallen as the rest of them now, so in order to cover their own behinds they tell you to pick your own guru now and they have nothing to do with it if he falls down. And if you listen to what the Prabhupada disciples say to each other it seems they don't have much of a vote of confidence in any of their God brothers in the first place.