http://back2godhead.com/training-tomorrows-leaders/
A Dasa: We know that education is for training tomorrow's leaders. But today's schools the training grounds for criminals. Where are we going to get tomorrow's leaders?
A Dasi: I actually saw a photo of a London gathering and I think I made an appalling comment at how awful they looked
B Dasa: Now I remember old ISKCON, ... some things really don't change.
B Dasi: Seriously? You are disparaging someone's appearance who has lifelong health issues from his years of childhood in vrndavan gurukula -- picking stones out of his Dahl and maggots out of his rice?
[PADA: This is what a number of ex-guruklis reported to us, that they were being fed rotten and even moldy food, while the leaders and big GBC gurus were eating 45 course feasts all the time. Some of the ex-kulis reported to us having LIFELONG HEALTH PROBLEMS, such as stunted growth, bad teeth etc. from malnutrition. PADA and Sulochana did try to bring some of these mistreatment of children issues up in the 1980s, and we were severely criticized for that, if not banned, beaten and shot.
We still are being harassed and attacked. As soon as we say that some of these children have been victimized -- a number of the GBC guru's clones and / or their dedicated followers like Prahlad / Paul (UK) say we are terrible offenders for defending these children from their program's abuses. They say we should never have defended these children because we just "made bad publicity." Yep, helping abused children is a crime for these people! Then they wonder why many of these ex-children are so alienated?
OK notice, these people never seem to say -- the leaders,abusers and perps are making the bad publicity? Just the victims are the bad guys. And meanwhile other ex-kulis complain to us that the leaders, the people who orchestrated their abuse infrastructure, are still being worshiped as gurus. Then they ask us, "How can we possibly participate in a society that worships our oppressors"? And Bhakta das wants to keep the children oppressing regime in power, and that is also why the Prahlad team supports him and that agenda. The people who aggressed the children are now their messiahs. Then we wonder why they are alienated? Really!]
A Dasi: I have also seen current photos of my former teachers who are in their 60s and they look lovely.
[PADA: Yep, the leaders, gurus and teachers seemed to have been well fed, not so much the students?]
B Dasi: It takes an immense amount of personal strength and effort to survive childhood abuse without devolving into alcoholism or drug addiction or worse.
[PADA: Yes, this is a problem, after children are abused, they often suffer from dysfunction and devolve into desperate lives, which may continue for years, decades or their whole lives if they are not able to recover. That is why we are so surprised that we meet so much resistance when we point these things out. Its almost like some folks want them to devolve and fail.
Many ex-kulis are still struggling because no practical ISKCON outreach program has been generated to assist them either. We know some of the ex-kids who now eat meat, are not interested in Krishna, and so on, because they have been totally alienated from the religion due to being mistreated so badly. And then some foolish people say, they just got their karma. Really?]
B Dasi: Gurukulis deserve to be respected for their strength and the lives they have built, whether or not they remain a part of iskcon, or if they have or don’t have material success. If things are changing or have changed in the way that children are treated today in iskcon, that is good, but it piles on to the abuse to forget or disparage those that have to live with the effects of what came before iskcon decided to fix the problem.
[PADA: The people who orchestrated the abuse program are still in charge. Kirtanananda was just buried in the holy dham. What has been fixed here? To discredit and harass these victims is simply re-victimizing them.]
A Dasa: (****) was one of the Gurukulis that never fell down and has maintained the 4 regs all these years. Yet as a young teenager he was assigned to work at BTG. He soon left (2 months later.) I asked him why. They basically refused to give him any editorial duties or training, and instead had him running potato chips & 7-up errands, floor and toilet cleaning and other maid service.
Then after he left he was disparaged as unfit for the task. I, at 14, was sent out to sell cookies with a brahmacari over a weekend. he proceeded to loot the till then pinned the missing money on me. Just the fact I was seen as the automatic culprit was enough to end any interest I had in Iskcon. I was also asked to return the money I had honestly earned. So iskcon fans have no clue how decrepit these people were towards us and they want to talk of this or that sincere teacher or "its our karma." My best revenge is doing all the work I have done and am doing.
[PADA: This is very typical, the GBC program or its leaders burn people out, and even make false accusations against them, and then these bogus leaders never seem to make a genuine attempt to rectify the wrongs. That leaves the victims permanently alienated.]
B Dasi: Going through the horrors of early iskon was enough for anyone to bear .... why would u want to add to that!
[PADA: Its hard to add a more clear and concise comment than this, these children were in "GBC managed" horror show, that's really what they thought at the time -- and still think now.]
A Dasi: that's my point!
A Dasa: If i dont whistle while i work i would be turning to alcohol too. the tenants here tend to hand it out free... i'm managing a motel....
C Dasa: Still many devotees turn into tamoh-tees and act ignorant. I will believe iskcon has stepped up when they actually institute programs that train young people to take over the jobs the current leaders, who cling to their posts for life (until they are caught in some scandal that is). Every branch of iskcon leadership is filled with dritarastra types. he was quite a sincere guy too but still in the wrong. the last thing such folks want is to give up their thrones, be it BTG editors, gurus, gee-bcs or temple presidents.
[PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada wanted the youth to be trained to inherit ISKCON, instead they are being marginalized, neglected, ignored and not listened to hardly at all. And the few positions of authority in ISKCON are being hogged by a few "good ole boys." And they cling to their posts until their last breath, being totally attached to their posts, money, power and worship that they get. They are like Drtrarasthas, stealing from the Pandavas and them making plots to get rid of the Pandavas by various cheating techniques. The senior Srila Prabhupada devotees have been largely driven out and now, so are their children.]
R Dasa: And then gurukulis get disparaged by people like your friend on here like this ******, and are accused of not wanting to contribute to ISKCON when that's the furthest from the truth - disgusting and another form of continuing abuse. Who is this ****** dude anyhow?
[PADA: Right, the ISKCON youth are unable to participate, just like we are. Its unfair to say they do not want to participate, they simply do not want to worship the people who orchestrated their being starved, beat, abused and neglected. Why would they want to support that? This makes no sense, they can only participate if they worship the people who orchestrated their group being starved, beat, abused and driven out on a rail?]
A dasa: Hee hee, well hes another gurukuli ranting as well. You know I posted this after I shared my brief write up about ***** dasa to the Prabhupad disciple forum. Bhumi immediately got critical doubting *****'s story since his name is not on the disciple database. I replied that since ***** was too embarassed by his iskcon past, I dont see why he'd bother to invent being a disciple of Prabupada. She said that meant he was not a devotee anymore. I replied by saying well he was a lot better than most of our gurukula teachers? Then I suggested that she search his albums etc before judging whether he was a 'devotee' or not.
***** das began defending the teachers and putting down ***** for being in a picture next to ' a half naked lady' refering to the honolulu star bulletins write up about *****'s krsna leela album and the pic of them from my Vedic Empire event. Then Bhumi deleted my entire post using the excuse that she could tell an argument was about to develop. In fact I had made my point that ***** was obviously a devotee based upon his spreading of the holy names regardless of his attraction to other process.
[PADA: Bhumi is another tyrant / enforcer / follower of the bogus GBC's guru regime. Right, the ex-children are going to move on to another guru, religion, group, system, or whatever, if they cannot participate in ISKCON. That is to be expected.]
A Dasa: Not once did these people congratulate me for having the mainstream media, Hawaii's number one news outlet glorification and printing of lord Krishnas name. (Bhaktisiddhnata thakur wrote the value of a paper can be gauged by how many times it mentions Krsna). Not once did these devotees recognize that *****, regardless of his past, use his fame and talent for good n for God.
[PADA: Right, there is profound criticism of the former youth of ISKCON and little attempt to work with them, communicate with them, and / or give them any help or credit. They are the "bogus fringies" -- and so are we?]
A Dasa: And there are plenty of holes and mistakes in that Prabhupada's Disciples database. I never met *****, but a devotee lady told me about him. Much of his work wasn't exactly to my own taste, but I could appreciate his talent and his heart. And I do think it's cool that he got that into the mainstream media.
D Dasi: I lasted about 2 hrs on that exclusive Prabhupadas disciples Group , before they ganged up on me during a discussion that I thought was good, and booted me out, declaring I was not a Prabhupada disciple. Its embarrassing really that they behave like that, like a gang of vultures with no good sense of humour or inquiry. That is where I always clashed with my fellow residents in the temples.
I questioned, they blindly followed anything that the GBC or local Sanyasa said or did, as in the case of our famous kirtaneer Maharaj behaving very loosely in the middle of the night with the ladies. I wish there could be written the secret history of the goings on and keep it hush hush between ourselves ... but that's not fair as everyone faulters along the way and I would just be a mere tantalizing gossip monger.
[PADA: Maharaja with the ladies at night, yep that is the famous PADA complaint, seems everyone is picking it up nowadays.]
E Dasi: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change// The courage to change the things I can// And wisdom to know the difference.
E Dasa: If some of you took just a few steps in 99.9 % of my friends shoes you might realize something, maybey. A warrior dreams of peace for he truly knows the horror of war the rest is just lip service.
[PADA: Right, unless one understands the horrors faced by many of these kulis, there is no real recognition of what actually happened to them. Its called denial. ys pd]
A Dasa: We know that education is for training tomorrow's leaders. But today's schools the training grounds for criminals. Where are we going to get tomorrow's leaders?
A Dasi: I actually saw a photo of a London gathering and I think I made an appalling comment at how awful they looked
B Dasa: Now I remember old ISKCON, ... some things really don't change.
B Dasi: Seriously? You are disparaging someone's appearance who has lifelong health issues from his years of childhood in vrndavan gurukula -- picking stones out of his Dahl and maggots out of his rice?
[PADA: This is what a number of ex-guruklis reported to us, that they were being fed rotten and even moldy food, while the leaders and big GBC gurus were eating 45 course feasts all the time. Some of the ex-kulis reported to us having LIFELONG HEALTH PROBLEMS, such as stunted growth, bad teeth etc. from malnutrition. PADA and Sulochana did try to bring some of these mistreatment of children issues up in the 1980s, and we were severely criticized for that, if not banned, beaten and shot.
We still are being harassed and attacked. As soon as we say that some of these children have been victimized -- a number of the GBC guru's clones and / or their dedicated followers like Prahlad / Paul (UK) say we are terrible offenders for defending these children from their program's abuses. They say we should never have defended these children because we just "made bad publicity." Yep, helping abused children is a crime for these people! Then they wonder why many of these ex-children are so alienated?
OK notice, these people never seem to say -- the leaders,abusers and perps are making the bad publicity? Just the victims are the bad guys. And meanwhile other ex-kulis complain to us that the leaders, the people who orchestrated their abuse infrastructure, are still being worshiped as gurus. Then they ask us, "How can we possibly participate in a society that worships our oppressors"? And Bhakta das wants to keep the children oppressing regime in power, and that is also why the Prahlad team supports him and that agenda. The people who aggressed the children are now their messiahs. Then we wonder why they are alienated? Really!]
A Dasi: I have also seen current photos of my former teachers who are in their 60s and they look lovely.
[PADA: Yep, the leaders, gurus and teachers seemed to have been well fed, not so much the students?]
B Dasi: It takes an immense amount of personal strength and effort to survive childhood abuse without devolving into alcoholism or drug addiction or worse.
[PADA: Yes, this is a problem, after children are abused, they often suffer from dysfunction and devolve into desperate lives, which may continue for years, decades or their whole lives if they are not able to recover. That is why we are so surprised that we meet so much resistance when we point these things out. Its almost like some folks want them to devolve and fail.
Many ex-kulis are still struggling because no practical ISKCON outreach program has been generated to assist them either. We know some of the ex-kids who now eat meat, are not interested in Krishna, and so on, because they have been totally alienated from the religion due to being mistreated so badly. And then some foolish people say, they just got their karma. Really?]
B Dasi: Gurukulis deserve to be respected for their strength and the lives they have built, whether or not they remain a part of iskcon, or if they have or don’t have material success. If things are changing or have changed in the way that children are treated today in iskcon, that is good, but it piles on to the abuse to forget or disparage those that have to live with the effects of what came before iskcon decided to fix the problem.
[PADA: The people who orchestrated the abuse program are still in charge. Kirtanananda was just buried in the holy dham. What has been fixed here? To discredit and harass these victims is simply re-victimizing them.]
A Dasa: (****) was one of the Gurukulis that never fell down and has maintained the 4 regs all these years. Yet as a young teenager he was assigned to work at BTG. He soon left (2 months later.) I asked him why. They basically refused to give him any editorial duties or training, and instead had him running potato chips & 7-up errands, floor and toilet cleaning and other maid service.
Then after he left he was disparaged as unfit for the task. I, at 14, was sent out to sell cookies with a brahmacari over a weekend. he proceeded to loot the till then pinned the missing money on me. Just the fact I was seen as the automatic culprit was enough to end any interest I had in Iskcon. I was also asked to return the money I had honestly earned. So iskcon fans have no clue how decrepit these people were towards us and they want to talk of this or that sincere teacher or "its our karma." My best revenge is doing all the work I have done and am doing.
[PADA: This is very typical, the GBC program or its leaders burn people out, and even make false accusations against them, and then these bogus leaders never seem to make a genuine attempt to rectify the wrongs. That leaves the victims permanently alienated.]
B Dasi: Going through the horrors of early iskon was enough for anyone to bear .... why would u want to add to that!
[PADA: Its hard to add a more clear and concise comment than this, these children were in "GBC managed" horror show, that's really what they thought at the time -- and still think now.]
A Dasi: that's my point!
A Dasa: If i dont whistle while i work i would be turning to alcohol too. the tenants here tend to hand it out free... i'm managing a motel....
C Dasa: Still many devotees turn into tamoh-tees and act ignorant. I will believe iskcon has stepped up when they actually institute programs that train young people to take over the jobs the current leaders, who cling to their posts for life (until they are caught in some scandal that is). Every branch of iskcon leadership is filled with dritarastra types. he was quite a sincere guy too but still in the wrong. the last thing such folks want is to give up their thrones, be it BTG editors, gurus, gee-bcs or temple presidents.
[PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada wanted the youth to be trained to inherit ISKCON, instead they are being marginalized, neglected, ignored and not listened to hardly at all. And the few positions of authority in ISKCON are being hogged by a few "good ole boys." And they cling to their posts until their last breath, being totally attached to their posts, money, power and worship that they get. They are like Drtrarasthas, stealing from the Pandavas and them making plots to get rid of the Pandavas by various cheating techniques. The senior Srila Prabhupada devotees have been largely driven out and now, so are their children.]
R Dasa: And then gurukulis get disparaged by people like your friend on here like this ******, and are accused of not wanting to contribute to ISKCON when that's the furthest from the truth - disgusting and another form of continuing abuse. Who is this ****** dude anyhow?
[PADA: Right, the ISKCON youth are unable to participate, just like we are. Its unfair to say they do not want to participate, they simply do not want to worship the people who orchestrated their being starved, beat, abused and neglected. Why would they want to support that? This makes no sense, they can only participate if they worship the people who orchestrated their group being starved, beat, abused and driven out on a rail?]
A dasa: Hee hee, well hes another gurukuli ranting as well. You know I posted this after I shared my brief write up about ***** dasa to the Prabhupad disciple forum. Bhumi immediately got critical doubting *****'s story since his name is not on the disciple database. I replied that since ***** was too embarassed by his iskcon past, I dont see why he'd bother to invent being a disciple of Prabupada. She said that meant he was not a devotee anymore. I replied by saying well he was a lot better than most of our gurukula teachers? Then I suggested that she search his albums etc before judging whether he was a 'devotee' or not.
***** das began defending the teachers and putting down ***** for being in a picture next to ' a half naked lady' refering to the honolulu star bulletins write up about *****'s krsna leela album and the pic of them from my Vedic Empire event. Then Bhumi deleted my entire post using the excuse that she could tell an argument was about to develop. In fact I had made my point that ***** was obviously a devotee based upon his spreading of the holy names regardless of his attraction to other process.
[PADA: Bhumi is another tyrant / enforcer / follower of the bogus GBC's guru regime. Right, the ex-children are going to move on to another guru, religion, group, system, or whatever, if they cannot participate in ISKCON. That is to be expected.]
A Dasa: Not once did these people congratulate me for having the mainstream media, Hawaii's number one news outlet glorification and printing of lord Krishnas name. (Bhaktisiddhnata thakur wrote the value of a paper can be gauged by how many times it mentions Krsna). Not once did these devotees recognize that *****, regardless of his past, use his fame and talent for good n for God.
[PADA: Right, there is profound criticism of the former youth of ISKCON and little attempt to work with them, communicate with them, and / or give them any help or credit. They are the "bogus fringies" -- and so are we?]
A Dasa: And there are plenty of holes and mistakes in that Prabhupada's Disciples database. I never met *****, but a devotee lady told me about him. Much of his work wasn't exactly to my own taste, but I could appreciate his talent and his heart. And I do think it's cool that he got that into the mainstream media.
D Dasi: I lasted about 2 hrs on that exclusive Prabhupadas disciples Group , before they ganged up on me during a discussion that I thought was good, and booted me out, declaring I was not a Prabhupada disciple. Its embarrassing really that they behave like that, like a gang of vultures with no good sense of humour or inquiry. That is where I always clashed with my fellow residents in the temples.
I questioned, they blindly followed anything that the GBC or local Sanyasa said or did, as in the case of our famous kirtaneer Maharaj behaving very loosely in the middle of the night with the ladies. I wish there could be written the secret history of the goings on and keep it hush hush between ourselves ... but that's not fair as everyone faulters along the way and I would just be a mere tantalizing gossip monger.
[PADA: Maharaja with the ladies at night, yep that is the famous PADA complaint, seems everyone is picking it up nowadays.]
E Dasi: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change// The courage to change the things I can// And wisdom to know the difference.
E Dasa: If some of you took just a few steps in 99.9 % of my friends shoes you might realize something, maybey. A warrior dreams of peace for he truly knows the horror of war the rest is just lip service.
[PADA: Right, unless one understands the horrors faced by many of these kulis, there is no real recognition of what actually happened to them. Its called denial. ys pd]
A new petition is going around asking for the names of all first initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada. They do not care if you are presently in maya or not, they just want to make sure you were really initiated by him, and if you weren't, your spouse can tell on you or presumably anyone else.
ReplyDeleteSo the same thing is going on, if you are a "prabhupada disciple" you hold some sort of special position in ISKCON, and if you are a second generation devotee, or third, or a grand disciple, you are worthless.
When will the grand disciples' plights be recognized in ISKCON? How many devotees' lives have been ruined, to the point of sucide, who are grand disciples of Srila Prabhupada, by the bogus gurus and GBC? Yes we know of the Prabhupada disciples and second generation devotees who have committed suicide, driven by the system they came to believe in, a system never meant to be the way it was by Srila Prabhupada, but set up by the GBC after his departure. But why are the grand disciples conspicuously left out of the equation all the time? Most of us in ISKCON today weren't initiated by Prabhupada, yet we have been maintaining those who were at OUR expenses while they live like dictators!
Yep, good summary.
ReplyDelete