Krishna Kirtan: WHICH CONCLUSION DO YOU SUBSCRIBE TO? (re: poison issue)

SEE UPDATED REPLY HERE: 

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/08/comment-and-response-by-krishna-kirtan.html

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Krishna Kirtan: 

WHICH CONCLUSION DO YOU SUBSCRIBE TO?

In the sum of things, there are essentially two conclusions any reasonably intelligent individual would be ready to accept as an answer to all the troubles with the world, and as a devotee, the troubles within the Vaishnava communities, particularly ISKCON since Srila Prabhupada left the planet.

Conclusion #1:

1) That all of the leadership troubles and all bad incidents of major significance occurred in ISKCON (and the world in general), they are all simply the result of a misguided leadership and that's mostly how the world works anyway. Leaders are responsible, and they are failing because they may lack character; yet for some reason (be it money/power) they remain long term untouched in their respective positions. It is after all Kali-yuga, and Kali's influence is pervasive, specially when the spiritual master is no longer present. We must just wish the best for these leaders because ultimately they are also trying to be devotees of the Lord.

What about a conspiracy? Oh no, that's crazy. Why would they go through all the trouble of acting like a devotee, living like a devotee, and even talking like a devotee? They sure make severe mistakes, but I can't fathom the idea that there is something so sinister going on behind closed doors. When Srila Prabhupada said that the great sinister movement was within our Society, I don't know what he meant by that, and what do I know about anything anyway? But I can't even start to imagine that THAT one good looking sannyasi is actually an agent working to corrupt ISKCON. Oh, that's impossible!..

OR...
Conclusion #2:

2) That all of it is not necessarily an accident by a bunch of misguided individuals in positions of leadership. That after doing all the appropriate research one has concluded that there is indeed a very pervasive and dark infiltration influence in all spheres of society, religion, government, etc in the world by a group and/or groups of people, agencies, and institutions intent on destroying all religion, family, moral values, individuality, even purposefully contaminate our food etc, all done on a global scale. That even plans to stealthy kill 80% of the population and orchestrate all war at any cost, is also part of their evil agenda. That they work in secret, and have for the longest time. That what is stated in The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is factually what is precisely going on in the world today, and has gradually ever since developed into what we know as the Status Quo of planet Earth in the age of Kali.

This is a more difficult platform to accept, yet all the important research points in that direction, and it appears to do it quite conclusively.

So... A great majority of people tend to accept the first option rather than then the latter. Fair enough, reasonable enough. I was one of them, although in my gut I still knew something was very wrong but I could not put my finger on what it was. But that was simply because I had not done any actual research on the subject. And even after some research, I still thought that the first option was still the most reasonable one to subscribe to.

But... As soon as it is learned and understood that there was an attempted poisoning of Srila Prabhupada by none other than those top ISKCON leaders themselves, the house falls apart. (And then watch three buildings falling at free-fall speed on September 11 2001 on top of that, and you are left with a field of immensely important open questions.) After scrutinizing those items, there is nowhere to go but to accept the number 2 option.

The attempted poisoning of Srila Prabhupada alone makes everything quite clear. That is: if those individuals had the audacity of even thinking in such terms and actually going through with it, that means they were never in favor of Srila Prabhupada from the start, but only acted that way (aka infiltrators), and that they were in fact there to perform a coup, a killing or killings if possible, and overall have worked stealthily on a CONSPIRACY to destroy Srila Prabhupada and his movement, all long coming in the making and planning.

WHAT TO DO? WELL, AT LEAST KNOW

One may remain doing their devotional service to the best of their ability and just stay out of it, specially if they don't yet fully understand what's going on or feel completely powerless when facing all of this. There are those though, when faced with proof that big snakes tried to poison His Divine Grace, they feel it would be their duty to at least say something, don't you think?

Sincere and unbiased research into this matter shows clear and incontrovertibly indications of the nefarious affair. Srila Prabhupada was more than likely already being attacked for a long time already much before 1977 in all sorts of ways (his name, society, and even his own body), but he is a pure devotee of the Lord and he was always protected. He only left this world when Krishna wanted and his mission was accomplished, and it was so beautifully accomplished. But that does not mean there were no attempts at his life.

Not only that, the fact remains that these rascals have been trying since then to further destroy his movement from within, and in the process duping everyone. What do their actions say about their character and actual intentions? How else does one explain all the atrocities etc that have happened within ISKCON ever since? Misguided individuals? Oh no, how naive to think that. Now we understand that much of it was actually purposeful and even planned. If they tried to murder Srila Prabhupada, that only further explains and exposes their actual purpose and intent after 1977.

When one further looks into the very colorful history of ISKCON and everything else is added up, what comes up is the real nature of all the so-called mistakes, atrocities, child abuse, unexplainable book changes etc.; then it all becomes even more clear. Any truthful individual then learns what that was all about.

In other words, that all of it has not been just mere Kali-yuga accidents / incidents by a bunch of misguided individuals, but that it has been a purposeful and orchestrated attack(s) to divide, conquer, and destroy all bona fide spiritual movements by whatever means (starting with Jesus Christ's movement); all done in similar fashion like it is done today to every religion and aspect of society: infiltrate it and then destroy it from within.

One thing remains the same. It is Kali-yuga and Kali's agents are not dumb. They are at work and this is how they work.

A WORD ON CONTROLLED OPPOSITION: THE SO CALLED TRUTH TELLERS

And then there are the likes of those like PADA, Puranjana, and others whose job is to radicalize the message (indirectly or directly) and make anyone who knows what's going on look like lunatics, and at the same time they act like they are representing the group of awakened individuals.

[PADA: Fine except, you are now one of the people who is accepting our issue, i.e. the poison issue, which almost all the people in 1997 said was being promoted by me, an alleged radical lunatic? So it seems you are now surrendering to the view of the main lunatic on the poison issue yourself? We are lunatics, therefore, you are accepting our main issues? That means you are discrediting, -- yourself. You are saying essentially, "I am now a follower of the ideas promoted by the radical lunatics." Then you blame me for discrediting you? I am not discrediting you, you are discrediting yourselves. 

Narayan Maharaja also said the same thing, that we are raving lunatics, and that we are severely offensive for bringing this poison issue forward, and so on and so forth. However at this point, there are easily thousands of people who subsequently accepted the poison issue, including Narayana Maharaja and his entire clan, and you are also one of the folks who has accepted the poison issue that we promoted as well. Then you say this is the "so-called truth telling." No, you are accepting our position as factual truth.

So it may be radical, it may be lunatic, it maybe whatever you folks say it is, but you are accepting it nonetheless. That means, we have had success in spite of your saying its the so-called truth. It may simply mean that you are begrudging that fact that we had to show you the way on these issues, like the child who had to say the emperor has no clothes, and the adults begrudged the fact that the child was way ahead of them on the issues.

Had we listened to you folks in 1997, then we would not have bothered to forward the issue at all. Of course, who cares if some folks are still calling us lunatics since, even you folks are now agreeing with our point anyway? The reason you are accepting the issue is because, the facts we presented in 1997 are valid, and are thus what we said in 1997 is now being accepted by more and more people, including yourself. Lets review what happened:

A) When we saw in the 1977 archives "Conversations Books" (printed in 1990) that there was "a conversation in Hindi about poison," I prayed to Krishna to get me a copy of that tape. He did that.

Thus, we were the first person (outside the archives) to obtain the archive copy of "the poison tape" from a person who had a contact near the archives. The devotee who gave us the tape did not want to make the tape public himself, because he feared for his life. So the tape never would have been made public, except for me making it public, because those who had the tape were never going to make it public. 

Therefore, anyone who is citing that tape now is doing so because of our work in making it public. To say that the person who made the tape public is a lunatic, tries to nullify the contents of the tape. OK and that has helped the bad guys all along.

So this devotee flew to Los Angeles to give me "the poison tape," but he made me promise to keep his name anonymous. Thus, no one else outside the archives at that time had ANY copy except for us, because we had asked for a copy for years and never got any results. That is because, no one else had a copy, this tape was not being circulated. I was the first person to publicly circulate the tape, period.

It was being hidden. Going back to your original point, there was -- as you said -- "a conspiracy" to hide these materials, and so we broke that program up by getting a hold of these hidden materials and releasing them. I agree with your general idea there was a conspiracy, however to say its the Illuminati is a little overboard, since I would never have got any of these materials if they were factually in charge.

B) We were therefore for sure the first person, ever, to have the tape transcribed into English by a Bengali gentleman. No other transcript existed at that time, because we had none to compare it to. Everyone who is reading the current English transcript now in 2013, is reading the main version we produced in 1997. We later had a few devotees go over the original transcript and they polished it up, and then we circulated the polished version, which is NOW the certified version that EVERYONE accepts as valid, apparently -- even yourself. We might be lunatics, but now almost everyone is reading the transcripts we created. Even you!

C) No one else in the USA even would have known what the tape said, even if they could hear it, because most of the tape was not in English -- and so it needed to be translated -- from Hindi and Bengali, and we did that before anyone else did. No one would have even known what the tapes said -- if we had not went and got them transcribed, and then circulated the transcriptions. The current English translated version you and others are NOW citing, were made initially by us. 

D) After we got the tape, and made the transcript, we then made an audio tape providing both the original Hindi and Bengali, and the English translation, and we narrated the English on the tape ourselves. And we were for sure the first person to publicly hand out copies of the poison tape anywhere, because we made 250 copies of the audio cassette and handed out those copies around Watseka ISKCON temple in 1997. No one else was handing out copies of this tape anywhere. Ever. For that matter, I am not sure if anyone has ever been handing out these tapes in public around temples ever since? As far as I know, we were the only people to ever do that around any major temple. Ever. And no one has done that ever since, that we know of?

E) Everyone else who was subsequently involved in the early investigation got a copy of the tape from us, including Naveen Krishna and others, because no one else had a copy. People like Naveen called us on the phone, and we then mailed them audio copies ourselves. No one else was doing that. In other words, without our mailing out copies around the world, this issue never would have become a world wide issue.

F) We were also the first to announce the whole issue in front of the 1997 Rathayatra, with a big sign. Yep, people like you said this man is a lunatic, but now you are accepting? So that means, we won anyway?

G) As a result of my sending the tape to Naveen, whispers were discovered on the tape. We were then the first to publish the contents of the "whispers" which were later found on these tapes, which we published in our newsletters. No one else even knew these whispers existed until we began to discuss and publish them. Now of course, many people accept these whispers as valid evidence. Yet at the time, when we first published them, people said -- this is lunacy. Maybe not? 

Naveen helped us with these whispers because he had the tape analyzed at a professional lab. In short, we are the people who originally made these whispers public. No one else even knew these whispers existed, anywhere, nor were the whsipers being published by anyone, anywhere, except by me in my newsletters. These whispers are now considered as concrete evidence. Even, by you?  

H) We were the first to assist Nityananda das put together the first poison issue Book publication.

I) We were the first to announce many developments in the case over the years, way before anyone else even knew what those developments were.

So if you want to say that the issue is valid, you should not say that the people who originally pioneered and forwarded the case in the first place are "looking like lunatics," because that makes you look like a lunatic for citing another lunatic? Anyway, we are sorry to report this, but we were never circulating any lunatic materials, Srila Prabhupada said he is being poisoned, and we simply said we agreed with what he said, and that's all there is to it. To say this issue is lunacy discredits Srila Prabhupada's statements. 

Anyway, now many people including you, accept these statements as a fact. Saying still after all this time, the people who originally forwarded this case are looking like lunacy -- is not helping, yourself? Its also not helping convince people of the case, when you say the people who originally forwarded it are looking like lunatics. Either Srila Prabhupada's words are factual, or not? You are shooting yourself in the foot by discrediting the people who forwarded the issue you now want to forward. Yes your honor I'd like to submit evidence "A," which I got from the looney tunes bin? You are not making much sense? Nor is it a good idea to say the issue forwarded by the pure devotee is lunatic materials? 

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KK: These individuals are also never ready to offer any type of tangible and sensible solutions, but only more and more hate. They are there to simply add to the division and the destruction, so instead of working to destroy from within like the others, they do do it from the outside. Two sides of the same coin, that's all.

[PADA: OK, so no one would have even got this tape unless we handed it out? I am not sure why that is hateful and / or lunacy? You would still be in the dark on this issue if we had not got all this organized. There is nothing lunatic of hateful about the poison issue, its the words of a pure devotee. You complain, there is also no tangible solution for this issue? We never said there was any? Is there any tangible solution for Jesus being crucified? What is that solution? Just tell us what it is, and we will do it? The people who said we were lunatics for promoting this issue in 1997 were with the GBC groupies, and you are still saying we are lunatics, are you not the same coin yourselves? What distinguishes your calling us lunatics from them?

We are educating people, and they are accepting. And you are one of the people who is accepting. Our job has been to educate people on these issues, and our process is working, and you are proof its working because when we went out in 1997 and said Srila Prabhupada complains of poison, almost everyone said that is lunacy, including even some of my close friends, but now it is being accepted everywhere. Even by you. So our work paid off, its being accepted. However, to continue to say the issue is hateful and is "making us look like lunatics" means, you are the person who is discrediting the issue, not us?]

KK: Where are the spiritual solutions being championed by these so called truth tellers?

[PADA: Educating people on the issues is the solution? The problems are due to ignorance, so if we educate people that is the solution itself. Jesus was crucified, and you are upset there is no solution for that? This makes no sense whatever? There is no "other" solution than education? If there is, what is it? Why don't you just tell us what better solution there is? You have not told us what is the better idea? Are you saying we should not bring these issues out, and keep people in darkness? Keep the mushrooms in the dark? Is that your solution? Or what? Srila Prabhupada was mainly interested in giving people his books, he wanted to educate people, that is the solution. There is no other solution? What is the other solution you infer is readily available, tell us and we will follow you.]

KK: That barely happens with them. Often everything seems to be continuously about problems, always about hate, about extreme gossip and attack; lacking any actual objectivity in decent language, common sense, and sanity. Nothing ultimately positive, no hope.

[PADA: We said that people should worship Srila Prabhupada and that is being accepted all over the place. Worship of Srila Prabhupada is hopeful, what else are you suggesting is the better hope? And are you saying we should not be hateful, but we should love the poisoners of pure devotees? Not sure what your point is?

Loving the poisoners and molesters is the main problem in ISKCON right now, is it not? Maybe if we love these people less, most of these problems will go away? Why should we love these people, at all? You are raising more questions than answers, its seems you are saying -- do not be hateful, love the bad guys, and paint the exposers as lunatics. OK is that not how all these crimes have been allowed to go on since 1977? That is not a solution? Or is that not how all this mess was created? Or what?]

KK: So what the professional controlled opposition has been working for years is to do just that by any psyop means necessary, to tarnish, confuse, and misdirect any reasonable and sane argument. People are waking up and much is becoming even more obvious as to the size and scope of the serious 'unspoken' problems facing the real and sincere Vaishnavas and their communities world-wide.

[PADA: Who is confused?

We said in 1978 that the 11 were never appointed. We are right.
We said there are molesting and criminality problems. We are right.
We said they are changing the books. They are.
We said there is a poison complaint. There is.

Ad infinitum.

Why are you confused? That means you need to go back and read our web sites where we present proofs of all these items. People who read up on these topics, are no longer confused.]

cakraṁ yugāntānala-tigma-nemi / bhramat samantād bhagavat-prayuktam
dandagdhi dandagdhy ari-sainyam āśu / kakṣaṁ yathā vāta-sakho hutāśaḥ

"Set into motion by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and wandering in all the four directions, the disc of the Supreme Lord has sharp edges as destructive as the fire of devastation at the end of the millennium. As a blazing fire burns dry grass to ashes with the assistance of the breeze, may that Sudarśana cakra burn our enemies to ashes."

—Srimad-Bhagavatam, 6.8.23

THEY CAN NOT EVEN SEE THE DEVOTEES

"Offenders have to wait until they receive the mercy of devotees, and then they can become eligible to see the lotus feet of the Lord within themselves. But due to their offenses and their extreme materialism, they cannot see even the devotees of the Lord. Engaged in external activities, they kill the internal vision. The Lord’s devotees, however, do not mind the offenses of the foolish in their many gross and subtle bodily endeavors. The Lord’s devotees continue to bestow the blessings of devotion upon all such offenders without hesitation. That is the nature of devotees."

—Srimad-Bhagavatam Purport, 3.5.45

Krishna Kirtan
20 August 2013

[PADA: Right, Krishna answered all our prayers to get all these hidden documents. He gave us "the will," the appointment tape, the July 9th letter, the DOM, the letters, the 1977 conversations, the poison tapes, and so -- Krishna got all these materials together and put them in our hands for us to use. And we did. And we broadcast these materials worldwide, so yes, He gave us all these items. And so now, people who read and accept these items are no longer confused. Its that simple.Read these items Krishna gave us, and you will no longer be confused. ys pd]