RE: http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/08/krishna-kirtan-which-conclusion-do-you.html
Puranjana, You say that will 'approve' my reply if it's sensible, to you. In other words, only IF you can spin it right?
[PADA: I am assuming this is Krishna Kirtan das, but why was it posted as anonymous? No, we said we would post your responses if you answered the points we raised sensibly. You never do that.
For example I said the child molesting lawsuit was helping reduce the suicides of the ex-children. And Jvalamukhi dasi and many others confirmed that this suicidal tendency was going on, and she said that in fact -- not only many of the children felt suicidal, she herself felt suicidal. She said the lawsuit blew the lid off the problem. You never even express any emotion for these victims, rather you said -- saving the victims was "costing too much money from innocent people." Which is what the GBC says? And which is by the way, is what the molesters said?
The child molesting lawsuit helped the victims feel validated because it took down the wall of denial among the leaders and many of the acquiescing parents. As soon as some children told us they had been molested, some parents actually dis-owned and totally shunned these children, saying the children were causing problems for the mission. So there was a huge denial problem, and this lead to the children feeling hopeless and helpless and hence, suicidal. Your idea was that we should have continued the wall of denial, and have more suicides? Or what? You never explain your solution? You have never presented any in all this time either?
Many people, including actual experts in child psychology regarding molesting (some of whom were consulted during the case) agreed that the suicides were reduced after the suit was filed. Moreover many experts agree that a lawsuit would help the suicides because this has been proven in Catholic Church molesting cases. Look up the Catholic Church problems and you will find testimony from victims -- that lawsuits in their Church helped relieve the victims of grief and made many of the victims feel less depressed and suicidal, and helped them get their lives back on track. It gave them at least some chance to fight back and this empowered them, not just to get back on track, but also -- just to keep on living. You apparently did not want that for these victims, and I simply am baffled as to why? Were they not your associates and colleagues?
However, when I asked you about this previously, you said that many innocent people would had to pay for the suit, so it should not have been filed. Who are these innocent people? Myself and Sulochana were telling all kinds of ISKCON leaders and adult parents there was a problem, they ignored us and actually had us shunned, banned, removed, excommunicated, hunted down, and in the case of Sulochan, killed. Many parents told me that they were not going to help ever, even though it was their child who had been molested, because they think just like you do, they did not want to cause monetary expenses. OK, so this begs the question, is money more important to you folks than living people who are the children of KRISHNA (God)? All we ever hear is, what about the money? OK, but what about the dead children? No response from you folks, its like talking to the giant plastic bear at the wharf. And are the people who suppressed us, or at least failed to address this issue, "innocent"?
And people like you complain that Bhavananda was never arrested and so on. Well go get a lawyer and sue Bhavananda yourself? Quit complaining and do something? Sorry, when Lanka was burned by Hanuman, the citizens were not considered as innocent, because they were participating in an evil empire.Krishna also wipes out the demon Kings, but also -- all their compatriots, that's called collective karma.
In any case, it appears to me that people like you, the GBC, many parents, and others conspired against these children by saying that money is more important than these children, which is exactly the reason they felt suicidal in the first instance, because people like you were placing the value of money above the lives of children. And you are going to expose me? Are you kidding? We had to expose this, to save the children who were victims of your conspiracy of silence.
And this ended up exposing your "money has more value than children" program to -- millions of people? This is now old news. The cat is totally out of the bag -- that your group has more interest in saving your money, than in saving the children. You need to fix that, whereas we can say easily, millions of people agree with us, children are more important than money. We thus already have the backing of millions and millions of people on this issue, the entire mass of public all agree that these children were in a dire situation and they needed help, not your program of more shuffling under the carpet, which has been actually killing ex-children victims of your process.
You folks have been exposed to the bone by us already. You have nothing sensible to expose on me? I said this is wrong, and millions and millions of people agree with me: these victims needed help, not your people saying money is the real thing we need to help. Who agrees with you folks, whose idea is that money is more important than people, apart from you new pals like "Pancali" and her husband "Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta" (Nickalaus Evans, Christchurch NZ), who are now saying to us they support you and your program, a process that apparently desires to see the children -- die, because it seems, ALL you folks are worried about is -- money? Well, you cannot take it with you! What kind of people say molested children have to die, so we can save some money? Or what? If there is any explanation, what is it? Really, we'd all like to know!
Of course another result of the lawsuit was that Tamal was dragged out of his liar, and he went to India where he died. He is the founder father of the molester messiahs program, and no doubt behind the poison issue, and you people are crying that we made him depart? Someone is connected to the poisoning of your guru, we cause that someone to depart, and you folks are crying about me causing him to depart? Even Pancali is crying that Judas has departed and she complains that this is all "bad publicity." So, she wants Judas to live, and the molested children to die. Or what? We never get any answer!
Judas is gone, thanks to the lawsuit, and you folks are apparently crying -- that Judas is gone? That means you are still tethered to the apparent poisoners party? Or what? Just explain this once and for all? Please! And now you have got poor Pancali crying that the apparent poisoner party leader of our guru is gone, so I should say, you are brainwashing her? What kind of people cry that the apparent poisoner party leader -- of their own guru -- is dead? The Judas of ISKCON is dead, and you folks are crying over that? Why? Brainwashed people? Or sympathizers with Judas and the crucifiers? Or what? No one ever explains this? Why is that?
Why are you not crying that children are dead instead of Judas being dead? Instead of crying that we caused Tamal to depart, why are you not crying that Srila Prabhupada departed instead? You are crying that Judas and crucifier party leader is dead, but show no symptoms of crying for the person who was crucified? You are trying to repress me for bringing the whole issue up, so you can save the poisoner party? Or what?
So I have to admit being baffled, you folks are not crying over the victims, you are crying for the lawsuit that took out the life of the founder father of the entire molester pooja process, and leader of the apparent poison party? So with all due respect, we have been asking about this since the 1990s and never get any good replies either from you or from the people who argue like yourself. Anyway, for the record, most of our associates are crying in happiness that Judas is gone and they find it incomprehensible that you folks are crying that Judas is gone instead? This makes no sense, unless, there is sympathy for Judas? Or what? Silence means acceptance.]
KK: But if you can't it won't be posted. What a joke. If my article was sensible enough for you to post, why would you not accept my reply in full? Because you are simply too concerned and worried about being exposed. Incidentally, this article was not intended to be only about the poison issue, like you're trying to make it it out to be. I've known about the poison issue since it started coming out in the late 90s, and it was never because of you that I became aware of it.
[PADA: OK, so name the web site that has those early 1990 documents you claim exist? When we got the tape, there was no other transcript because, I would have loved to have had a Hindi translation to work from, there was none. If you can show us where that was done, and tell us who was doing it, we'd all like to know. You don't do that. Why?]
KK: What you are famous for is to always try to own every narrative and big issue in order to amass credibility to yourself, and then proceed to manipulate it and turn it into a hate contest. Psyops. Tim Lee, you really do not deserve anymore of anyone's time. There is already a group on Facebook (not created by me) intent on exposing you, and in fact that has already been done very nicely on
[PADA: Well goody, but all you have done is exposed yourself. You have no good reason to say that money is more important than children's lives. I already exposed you people for having that mentality anyway? Millions of people already know about how your process works, which is the reason for the lawsuit in the first place. You simply confirmed what the ex-children said, you people are only worried about money and not the children. Or?
You also have no proof there was an early 1990s poison issue expose. You are now working with Prahlad, who is promoting beef eater DVDs. I have seen your "group," which also has serious illuminati cracker pots, various anti-semites, and other folks who are not able to even produce one philosophical position paper, ever. And you are their leader? I do not need your group or care about your group, people have wanted to have me killed since 1977, you people are peanuts compared to what we already went through.]
KK: You deserve no more of anyone's time. There is already a group intent on exposing you, and in fact that has already been done very nicely. It would have been my pleasure to post a full reply to your comments, but I can not do under suppression. You spill hate towards anyone and everything years on end, and when someone wants to call you.
[PADA: OK, so you are working with the beef eater DVD program, the illuminati nuts -- the anti semites, the people who say money is more important than children, the people who are crying that Tamal is dead, never mind he is the apparent poison case founder father, and you think you are making me look bad? Are you serious? Anyway, if you have any replies to these points,we'd like to see them. And you think all of this above is not hateful?
The fact is, we never do get sensible replies, ever since 1977, we ask all kinds of question like these, and there is no reply. Yet my offer stands, give me sensible replies and I will post them.
At the same time, the fact that you had to start a group that has one topic, me, means, you are officially yourself only thinking of me and nothing else? My friends tell me they get messages from you folks every day, about me, and nothing else? Puranjan ate a banana, he stepped on dog manure, he picked up a toothbrush, he stole my lassi out of the kitchen. You are thus thinking of me, talking about me. meditating on me, chatting all day long about me, gossiping about me like a bunch of old grandmothers, don't you people have an actual life of your own? You are living your life through mine, that is very sad to say the least. It means you have no life. You have become like stalkers, they have no life of their own, they live through the person they are stalking, they are considered as -- losers. And that is what many of my friends are saying, you people are stalker / losers.
Why not go to an old folks home and teach them some yoga classes or something, and do something useful for a change? Hating me will not solve any of this, these issues need sensible responses and intelligent analysis. And without that, ISKCON will never get fixed, and none of these problems will go ever go away, they will keep re-manifesting. Its up to you folks to try to make some genuine intelligent statements on these issues, Again, you need to give me sensible replies and I will post them, hypebole is not fixing a thing, and never has. I think you are a serious devotee and would like to see some of these things resolved, well I am willing to try. And that is why I tried to give my side of the story to some extent here. Jaya! Haribol. In any case, I am your servant nonetheless no matter what else happens, ys pd]
Puranjana, You say that will 'approve' my reply if it's sensible, to you. In other words, only IF you can spin it right?
[PADA: I am assuming this is Krishna Kirtan das, but why was it posted as anonymous? No, we said we would post your responses if you answered the points we raised sensibly. You never do that.
For example I said the child molesting lawsuit was helping reduce the suicides of the ex-children. And Jvalamukhi dasi and many others confirmed that this suicidal tendency was going on, and she said that in fact -- not only many of the children felt suicidal, she herself felt suicidal. She said the lawsuit blew the lid off the problem. You never even express any emotion for these victims, rather you said -- saving the victims was "costing too much money from innocent people." Which is what the GBC says? And which is by the way, is what the molesters said?
The child molesting lawsuit helped the victims feel validated because it took down the wall of denial among the leaders and many of the acquiescing parents. As soon as some children told us they had been molested, some parents actually dis-owned and totally shunned these children, saying the children were causing problems for the mission. So there was a huge denial problem, and this lead to the children feeling hopeless and helpless and hence, suicidal. Your idea was that we should have continued the wall of denial, and have more suicides? Or what? You never explain your solution? You have never presented any in all this time either?
Many people, including actual experts in child psychology regarding molesting (some of whom were consulted during the case) agreed that the suicides were reduced after the suit was filed. Moreover many experts agree that a lawsuit would help the suicides because this has been proven in Catholic Church molesting cases. Look up the Catholic Church problems and you will find testimony from victims -- that lawsuits in their Church helped relieve the victims of grief and made many of the victims feel less depressed and suicidal, and helped them get their lives back on track. It gave them at least some chance to fight back and this empowered them, not just to get back on track, but also -- just to keep on living. You apparently did not want that for these victims, and I simply am baffled as to why? Were they not your associates and colleagues?
However, when I asked you about this previously, you said that many innocent people would had to pay for the suit, so it should not have been filed. Who are these innocent people? Myself and Sulochana were telling all kinds of ISKCON leaders and adult parents there was a problem, they ignored us and actually had us shunned, banned, removed, excommunicated, hunted down, and in the case of Sulochan, killed. Many parents told me that they were not going to help ever, even though it was their child who had been molested, because they think just like you do, they did not want to cause monetary expenses. OK, so this begs the question, is money more important to you folks than living people who are the children of KRISHNA (God)? All we ever hear is, what about the money? OK, but what about the dead children? No response from you folks, its like talking to the giant plastic bear at the wharf. And are the people who suppressed us, or at least failed to address this issue, "innocent"?
And people like you complain that Bhavananda was never arrested and so on. Well go get a lawyer and sue Bhavananda yourself? Quit complaining and do something? Sorry, when Lanka was burned by Hanuman, the citizens were not considered as innocent, because they were participating in an evil empire.Krishna also wipes out the demon Kings, but also -- all their compatriots, that's called collective karma.
In any case, it appears to me that people like you, the GBC, many parents, and others conspired against these children by saying that money is more important than these children, which is exactly the reason they felt suicidal in the first instance, because people like you were placing the value of money above the lives of children. And you are going to expose me? Are you kidding? We had to expose this, to save the children who were victims of your conspiracy of silence.
And this ended up exposing your "money has more value than children" program to -- millions of people? This is now old news. The cat is totally out of the bag -- that your group has more interest in saving your money, than in saving the children. You need to fix that, whereas we can say easily, millions of people agree with us, children are more important than money. We thus already have the backing of millions and millions of people on this issue, the entire mass of public all agree that these children were in a dire situation and they needed help, not your program of more shuffling under the carpet, which has been actually killing ex-children victims of your process.
You folks have been exposed to the bone by us already. You have nothing sensible to expose on me? I said this is wrong, and millions and millions of people agree with me: these victims needed help, not your people saying money is the real thing we need to help. Who agrees with you folks, whose idea is that money is more important than people, apart from you new pals like "Pancali" and her husband "Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta" (Nickalaus Evans, Christchurch NZ), who are now saying to us they support you and your program, a process that apparently desires to see the children -- die, because it seems, ALL you folks are worried about is -- money? Well, you cannot take it with you! What kind of people say molested children have to die, so we can save some money? Or what? If there is any explanation, what is it? Really, we'd all like to know!
Of course another result of the lawsuit was that Tamal was dragged out of his liar, and he went to India where he died. He is the founder father of the molester messiahs program, and no doubt behind the poison issue, and you people are crying that we made him depart? Someone is connected to the poisoning of your guru, we cause that someone to depart, and you folks are crying about me causing him to depart? Even Pancali is crying that Judas has departed and she complains that this is all "bad publicity." So, she wants Judas to live, and the molested children to die. Or what? We never get any answer!
Judas is gone, thanks to the lawsuit, and you folks are apparently crying -- that Judas is gone? That means you are still tethered to the apparent poisoners party? Or what? Just explain this once and for all? Please! And now you have got poor Pancali crying that the apparent poisoner party leader of our guru is gone, so I should say, you are brainwashing her? What kind of people cry that the apparent poisoner party leader -- of their own guru -- is dead? The Judas of ISKCON is dead, and you folks are crying over that? Why? Brainwashed people? Or sympathizers with Judas and the crucifiers? Or what? No one ever explains this? Why is that?
Why are you not crying that children are dead instead of Judas being dead? Instead of crying that we caused Tamal to depart, why are you not crying that Srila Prabhupada departed instead? You are crying that Judas and crucifier party leader is dead, but show no symptoms of crying for the person who was crucified? You are trying to repress me for bringing the whole issue up, so you can save the poisoner party? Or what?
So I have to admit being baffled, you folks are not crying over the victims, you are crying for the lawsuit that took out the life of the founder father of the entire molester pooja process, and leader of the apparent poison party? So with all due respect, we have been asking about this since the 1990s and never get any good replies either from you or from the people who argue like yourself. Anyway, for the record, most of our associates are crying in happiness that Judas is gone and they find it incomprehensible that you folks are crying that Judas is gone instead? This makes no sense, unless, there is sympathy for Judas? Or what? Silence means acceptance.]
KK: But if you can't it won't be posted. What a joke. If my article was sensible enough for you to post, why would you not accept my reply in full? Because you are simply too concerned and worried about being exposed. Incidentally, this article was not intended to be only about the poison issue, like you're trying to make it it out to be. I've known about the poison issue since it started coming out in the late 90s, and it was never because of you that I became aware of it.
[PADA: OK, so name the web site that has those early 1990 documents you claim exist? When we got the tape, there was no other transcript because, I would have loved to have had a Hindi translation to work from, there was none. If you can show us where that was done, and tell us who was doing it, we'd all like to know. You don't do that. Why?]
KK: What you are famous for is to always try to own every narrative and big issue in order to amass credibility to yourself, and then proceed to manipulate it and turn it into a hate contest. Psyops. Tim Lee, you really do not deserve anymore of anyone's time. There is already a group on Facebook (not created by me) intent on exposing you, and in fact that has already been done very nicely on
[PADA: Well goody, but all you have done is exposed yourself. You have no good reason to say that money is more important than children's lives. I already exposed you people for having that mentality anyway? Millions of people already know about how your process works, which is the reason for the lawsuit in the first place. You simply confirmed what the ex-children said, you people are only worried about money and not the children. Or?
You also have no proof there was an early 1990s poison issue expose. You are now working with Prahlad, who is promoting beef eater DVDs. I have seen your "group," which also has serious illuminati cracker pots, various anti-semites, and other folks who are not able to even produce one philosophical position paper, ever. And you are their leader? I do not need your group or care about your group, people have wanted to have me killed since 1977, you people are peanuts compared to what we already went through.]
KK: You deserve no more of anyone's time. There is already a group intent on exposing you, and in fact that has already been done very nicely. It would have been my pleasure to post a full reply to your comments, but I can not do under suppression. You spill hate towards anyone and everything years on end, and when someone wants to call you.
[PADA: OK, so you are working with the beef eater DVD program, the illuminati nuts -- the anti semites, the people who say money is more important than children, the people who are crying that Tamal is dead, never mind he is the apparent poison case founder father, and you think you are making me look bad? Are you serious? Anyway, if you have any replies to these points,we'd like to see them. And you think all of this above is not hateful?
The fact is, we never do get sensible replies, ever since 1977, we ask all kinds of question like these, and there is no reply. Yet my offer stands, give me sensible replies and I will post them.
At the same time, the fact that you had to start a group that has one topic, me, means, you are officially yourself only thinking of me and nothing else? My friends tell me they get messages from you folks every day, about me, and nothing else? Puranjan ate a banana, he stepped on dog manure, he picked up a toothbrush, he stole my lassi out of the kitchen. You are thus thinking of me, talking about me. meditating on me, chatting all day long about me, gossiping about me like a bunch of old grandmothers, don't you people have an actual life of your own? You are living your life through mine, that is very sad to say the least. It means you have no life. You have become like stalkers, they have no life of their own, they live through the person they are stalking, they are considered as -- losers. And that is what many of my friends are saying, you people are stalker / losers.
Why not go to an old folks home and teach them some yoga classes or something, and do something useful for a change? Hating me will not solve any of this, these issues need sensible responses and intelligent analysis. And without that, ISKCON will never get fixed, and none of these problems will go ever go away, they will keep re-manifesting. Its up to you folks to try to make some genuine intelligent statements on these issues, Again, you need to give me sensible replies and I will post them, hypebole is not fixing a thing, and never has. I think you are a serious devotee and would like to see some of these things resolved, well I am willing to try. And that is why I tried to give my side of the story to some extent here. Jaya! Haribol. In any case, I am your servant nonetheless no matter what else happens, ys pd]
Good questions. Any answers? Krishna Kirtan says he knew about the poison issue, how come he hid it, no one else was told? We never heard anyone speking on this before pada did.
ReplyDeleteGentleman Jim
Quote: "Jai! Haribol. In any case, I'm your servant nonetheless no matter whatelse happens". That's a very nice attitude. Humility is one of the main characteristics of a genuine vaisnava, and one of the strongest assets for credibility. So, keep up the good work Puranjan Prabhuji and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Srila Prabhupada, undoubtedly, must be very pleased with your sincere efforts. My respectful obeisances unto you and everyone else. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada and their Lorships Sri-Sri Goura-Nitai. Hare Krsna!
ReplyDeleteThanks very much prabhu. ys pd
ReplyDeleteKrishna Kirtan says he knew about the poison problem all along. Others say they knew about a molesting problem all along. But no one spoke up. Is this a conspiracy, to know this and not say anything? Why were they not speaking? This is probably true, they knew all along and were silent. That is called conspiracy. BK Ralph
ReplyDelete