Monday, January 27, 2014

Guru Must Be Authorized (Prabhupadanugas)

[PADA: This is great stuff. We were writing similar "Guru Tattva position papers" especially in the 1980s, 1990s and a few later on. We wrote papers and articles along with writers like Yasodananda das, Sulochana das, Nityananda das, Karnamrta das, Mahesh Raja das, Rupa Vilas das, and others. Jaggajivana prabhu also helped us edit and correct grammar and etc.  We started out with a $10 typewriter we got at the flea market, and we had to type our articles (remember white out correcting?), and then photocopy our materials, then distribute them by mail and by hand. We had to buy our own microfiche readers to view the "letters." Yep, its hard to imagine -- but there was no internet then.

Its very enlivening to see others are more and more taking up this task of analyzing the quotes and writings of Srila Prabhupada, and writing critical analysis papers on this topic (like ISKCON Truth, Vidya Vani folks and many others are now gathering quotes and posting as well). 

Very nice job here! Bravo. PADA has been criticized for making comments about the devious activities of these false gurus, and for that I apologize for offending anyone, but its sometimes required to show people (A) what is supposed to be done, and (B) the result of not doing what is supposed to be done. Anyway, this is a great read below, please check it out. ys pd] 


nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta- svāmin iti nāmine
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi- pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe

I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet. Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.

PART 1 [one of four]


Srila Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru. (Ref. VedaBase, Bhagavad-gita 7.2 — Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
NO such order was ever issued from Srila Prabhupada. We therefore openly challenge ANYONE please provide us with tangible proof in writing from Srila Prabhupada confirming His order. ARE SRILA PRABHUPADA’S DISCIPLES QUALIFIED TO BECOME GURUS [diksa-gurus]? NO – THEY ARE NOT!

Tamala Krsna: “It’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru”
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, 1977:

Srila Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru.
Srila Prabhupada: Hm. (agrees confirmative)
Tamala Krsna: Maybe one day it may be possible… but not now.

Note: As we can clearly see from Tamal Krishna’s earlier comment in April 1977, “Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. ” but just AFTER 7 months in NOVEMBER, the departure of Srila Prabhupada, he was deceitful, he CHEATED, thus began the Guru HOAX in ISKCON. He proclaimed the 11 Ritviks [officiating representatives] were now to be ACCEPTED as “successor gurus”, “Uttama Adhikaris” and anyone who thought otherwise would bring “one dangerously near the precipice of spiritual calamity.” Threats were common to those who opposed them, and Srila Prabhupada’s disciples who protested where kicked out.

Tamal Krsna was the chief mastermind to disobey and dismantle the July 9th 1977 Ritvik order from Srila Prabhupada to the society to initiate on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf.


Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall SAY, “Now you become ACARYA. You become authorized.” I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete. (Srila Prabhupada room conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay)

Note: Guru MUST be on Uttama Adhikari (Maha-bhagavata) stage. But aside from that he needs an ORDER from his Guru to be ACARYA. – NO SUCH ORDER WAS GIVEN.

In the Padma Purana, the characteristics of the guru, the bona fide spiritual master, have been described: “The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service.” There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people.

(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Madhya-lila 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse)


Note: Anyone show us in writing from Srila Prabhupada NAMING the individuals as ACARYA. [initiating spiritual masters] Exactly WHERE and when did Srila Prabhupada named the ACARYAS in writing? I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACARYAS

Satsvarupa: We have a question about initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.
Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?
Srila Prabhupada: Rtvik, yes.

Note: From the May 28th conversation we can see that Srila Prabhupada only appointed them to be officiating Ritvik representatives of the acarya Srila Prabhupada. NO other order was ever given. The Ritvik order was given FOR CONTINUING THE RITVIK INITIATION SYSTEM ALREADY SETUP by Srila Prabhupada HIMSELF.

There is absolutely NO order from Srila Prabhupada for his disciples to become full-fledged successor acaryas, successor diksa gurus. There is NO such thing, NO such order in writing, but the opposite, they are not qualified, as has been admitted by Tamal Krsna himself.


Note: So what is an “officiating acarya?” Certainly NOT a “diksa-guru-successor-acarya”. So Srila Prabhupada gives the answer: “He will recommend some of his senior disciples to act as officiating acarya (answer to Satsvarupa) particularly at that time when he is no longer with us. (this answers the continuance)”

So, where is the order from Srila Prabhupada that they are “diksa-guru-successor-acarya“. There is NO such thing, NO such order. We challenge anyone to prove it first. Srila Prabhupada never created any special status for “regular officiating gurus” other than ritvik-representative of the acarya.

Note: From the year 1966 to 1977 Srila Prabhupada did NOT give ANY order to anyone SPECIFICALLY “YOU become guru,” so HOW can anyone claim that they are diksa-guru? IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977 then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order. It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977 [from May 28, 1977 to November 14, 1977]. WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?


"Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru." (Srila Prabhupada, Nectar of Devotion, Lecture, October 31. 1972, Vrindavana)

“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa vidhana.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)


Srila Prabhupada: Don’t be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are so many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up. (Srila Prabhupada letter to Acyutananda 68.8.17)


Srila Prabhupada: One should not try to be an artificially advanced devotee, thinking, “I am a first-class devotee.” Such thinking should be avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples. One has to become purified at home by chanting the Hare Krsna mahā-mantra and preaching the principles enunciated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (Sri Caitamrta-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 1.1)


Srila Prabhupada: “I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves”. “As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished.” (Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, August 16, 1976, Bombay, India)


Srila Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear and pose as a guru]. You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU? (Srila Prabhupada room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, 1977)

Srila Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. If one does not speak what Krsna speaks, he is not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done? (760628bj.nv)

Pusta Krsna: What about the so-called gurus that take a little bit here and a little bit there?
Srila Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. If one does not speak what Krsna speaks, he is not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done?
Pusta Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but they’ll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Srila Prabhupada: He’s most dangerous. He’s most dangerous. He is opportunist. He’s finding out customer, something here… According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. So he is not guru. (760628bj.nv)

"All of my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I–one–may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It’s not that I’ll give an order: “Here is the next leader.” Anyone who follows the previous leadership is a leader… All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don’t want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param praptam. One who follows is perfect."
(SP Back to Godhead magazine BTG Vol. 13, No. 1-2, December 1977)

Srila Prabhupada: “I wish that each and every branch shall keep their separate identity and cooperate keeping the acharya in the center. On this principle we can open any number of branches all over the world. The Rama Krishna mission works on this principle and thus as an organization they have done wonderfully.”
(Srila Prabhupada letter to Kirtana ananda 11th Feb. 1967)

Srila Prabhupada: “This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want.” (Srila Prabhupada letter to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada: “I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually” – (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)

DIRECT ORDER TO ACT AS RITVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF SRILA PRABHUPADA (completely ignored and rejected by deviant disciples)

Srila Prabhupada: “Make your own field and continue to be ritvik and act on my behalf.” (Letter to Hansadutta, July 31st, 1977)

Srila Prabhupada: ”I have selected you among eleven men as ‘ritvik or representative of the acharya, to give initiations, both first and second initiation, on my behalf.” (July 10th)

“…the process for initiation to be followed in the future.” (July 11th)

“…continue to become ritvik and act on my charge.” (July 19th)

“…continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.” (July 31th)


What is the meaning of: ”He becomes disciple of my disciple.”?

This can have different meanings, according how it is applied and according how it is taken OUT of context.
Also we have to understand that the tape-recordings have been spliced and tampered with and the transcriptions have been falsified also. There are at least 5 different types of transcriptions, which one to believe? Please see:

Falsified transcription of the May 28th, 1977 tape

Also Srila Prabhupada says on the tape: “His grand disciple” and NOT “He is grand disciple”. This gives also a complete different meaning. Most persons who see this transcript as presented above will naturally either be confused or think that Srila Prabhupada is speaking of the ‘ritviks’ having their own disciples and thus being [or becoming] Diksa Gurus. However the above transcript is NOT ACCURATE. And simply reproducing the transcript correctly causes the whole GBC case to collapse.

The first source of inaccuracy is the phrase ‘He is grand-disciple’.

Please note the following:

1. In 1985, Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu produced his landmark paper ‘Under My Order’. This paper very carefully analyzed the whole "Appointment Tape." It was this analysis of the tape that led to the current guru system in ISKCON being introduced and the zonal acarya system being allegedly disbanded. Thus one can appreciate the significance of this paper and the thought that went into it. Also since the whole paper revolved around an analysis of the so-called ‘1977 Appointment Tape’, its treatment of this tape also needed to be done carefully. 

To this end the transcript for the tape they produced was crucial and would have needed to be checked thoroughly. Indeed Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu states that the transcript has been carefully ‘checked and corrected’ by Jayadvaita Swami, a senior BBT editor. In this transcript, it clearly states ‘HIS grand-disciple’ NOT ‘HE IS grand-disciple’. This rendering was never challenged at the time, or subsequently, by ANY member of the GBC.

2. Fast forward to 1990. Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu helps put out the ISKCON Journal. Mysteriously the transcript has now been changed to ‘HE IS grand-disciple’. No explanation is given for this change. All subsequent GBC transcripts start repeating this phrase as ‘HE IS grand-disciple’.

3. However since the change involves moving from one word to two words, it can be easily resolved by listening to the tape. The tape has been listened to by a number of persons and they all agree that only ONE word is spoken before the word ‘grand-disciple’. Obviously both Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu and Jayadvaita Swami would also have heard only one word. Thus the term spoken before the word ‘grand-disciple’ DEFINITELY CANNOT be ‘HE IS’, since only ONE word is spoken, not TWO words.

4. In response to this point the GBC have now tried to subsequently argue in ‘Disciple of My Disciple’ (1997) that ‘maybe’ the word spoken was “He’s”. But this does not explain why the carefully checked transcript in 1985 was sure that it was ‘His’, nor why NONE of the GBC transcripts subsequently have never said ‘He’s’, but only ‘He is’. The only possible explanations are:

a) They have a different version of the tape, where the words ‘He is’ ARE spoken.

b) They have deliberately been mis-representing HIS / HE’S as ‘HE IS’ all this time.

Of course if a) was the case the whole GBC case collapses anyway since it proves beyond any doubt that the tape was falsified since two different recordings exist. 

If b) is the case then it supports the idea that they have been deliberately trying to mis-represent the actual recording so that people will draw the ‘ritviks are diksa gurus’ conclusion. However, with this mis-representation now cleared away, as will be seen, the conclusion that will be drawn is completely different.

5. Also there is no reason to suppose that Srila Prabhupada did say ‘He’s’ as opposed to ‘His’, since such an interpretation would not make any sense.

The pronoun ‘He’ (from He’s) before the term ‘grand-disciple’ refers to the person BEING initiated, the initiate, or the ‘grand-disciple’. However in straightforward standard English the pronoun usually refers to the immediate ante-cedent (the term that the pronoun follows). In this case that term is ‘who is initiating’. It is obvious therefore that in this case the pronoun CANNOT be ‘HE’ because how can the INITIATE, the person being INITIATED, or ‘grand-disciple’, simultaneously be the person ‘who is initiating’!

6. Even if we allow for the ante-cedent that the pronoun refers to. To not be the most immediate. There is actually NO ante-cedent for the pronoun ‘HE’ to refer to in the whole conversation, since the speaker Srila Prabhupada has never previously mentioned nor alluded to the initiate, or the person BEING INITIATED, in the singular. The only time previously in the conversation that the speaker or the questioners ever mention the initiate, it is ALWAYS in the plural. ‘(Yes, THEY are disciples.’) Thus a speaker cannot just introduce a pronoun that has no ante-cedent. It does not make sense. In other words the ‘HE’ has to REFER to something. But it can not refer to something that has not yet even been mentioned.

7. However the use of ‘His’, does make sense, since this use CAN be consistent with the most immediate antecedent, ‘who is initiating’. In this case the ‘HIS’ MUST refer to Srila Prabhupada since the ‘ritvik’ cannot have grand-disciples. Srila Prabhupada would then also be the person ‘who is initiating’. Thus there is no case for insisting that the words spoken were ‘HE IS’ or even ‘HE’S’. Even the GBC admit that at the very best ‘maybe’ it states ‘He’s’ (‘Disciple of My Disciple’), as opposed to ‘HIS’.

The second source of inaccuracy is in the way the transcript is written out. If one actually listens to this part of the tape the sequence of events are as follows:

1. Srila Prabhupada states ‘Who is initiating’. He then PAUSES.

2. After the PAUSE, he next states ‘HIS grand-disciple’. (See above)

3. Srila Prabhupada again pauses.

4. Satsvarupa Maharaja then attempts to interrupt and begins to ask another question.

5. Srila Prabhupada IGNORES him and CONTINUES SPEAKING.

Taking all these facts into account, and omitting the interruption from Satsvarupa Maharaja, which has absolutely no bearing on what Srila Prabhupada says, since he also ignores this interruption, the transcript can now be more accurately represented as:

Srila Prabhupada: Who is initiating (pause) His Grand-Disciple (pause) When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple.

Note: Now the transcript becomes clearer. The term ‘his grand-disciple’ is first introduced, and then mentioned again in different terms at the end of the sentence – ‘Disciple of My Disciple’. This by the way is another reason to put these two terms together on the same line, representing the same stream of thought, since the two terms are both speaking of the same entity – Srila Prabhupada’s grand-disciples. Sandwiched in between the two terms is the PROCESS by which the entity is arrived at – ‘When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru’. Thus in the LAST sentence of the whole conversation Srila Prabhupada merely repeats the standard PRINCIPLE, that WHEN the Guru orders the disciple, THEN he becomes a Diksa Guru. We see that on the May tape no such order was given. And the only order, which was given, was on July 9th, to be ritviks. So it is straightforward.

Unless they can produce the actual order, the line: “His grand-disciple, when I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple.” in itself authorizes and orders NOTHING.


Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as ritvik – representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation.

Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done.

The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before.

The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.


Tamala Krsna: These men, they can also do second initiation. So there’s no need for devotees to write to you for first and second initiation. They can write to the man nearest them. But all these persons are still your disciples. Anybody who gives initiation is doing so on your behalf.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: You know that book I’m maintaining of all of your disciples’ names? Should I continue that?

Srila Prabhupada: Hm. (agrees)

(Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, July7, 1977)


Note: The requirement for being a diksa, or initiating guru in ISKCON is not simply that one thinks they have acquired the requisite qualifications to act as guru, but that in addition Srila Prabhupada must also authorize such persons to specifically act in that capacity. The only order given was: I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACARYAS. WHEN I ORDER, “YOU BECOME GURU,” HE BECOMES REGULAR GURU. THAT’S ALL. RITVIK-YES.


Unless a person has been properly initiated by someone acting strictly as the rittvik representative of the SAMPRADAYA ACHARYA, Srila Prabhupada, his so-called initiation is more or less a kind of KIDNAPPING THE DISCIPLE AWAY FROM THE SHELTER OF THE LOTUS FEET OF SRILA PRABHUPADA, THE SAMPRADAYA ACHARYA, AND KRISHNA.

Such kidnapper gurus and their unfortunate disciples fall down from the devotional path in due course of time, just as a tree that receives no water loses its leaves (disciples), dries up and dies. We have seen this phenomenon repeat itself again and again in a long list of so-called gurus, falling down after some time. However, such dead gurus and disciples can be brought back to life simply by situating themselves properly in the rittvik initiating arrangement made by Srila Prabhupada. The current re-initiation syndrome practiced in ISKCON is trying to correct one mistake by making another mistake.



Srila Prabhupada: He [Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja] never recommended anyone to be acharya of the Gaudiya Math…. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acharya, he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acharya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Rupanuga, April 28, 1974)


Note: “So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and *self effulgent acarya* would be automatically selected.” The words, “self effulgent acarya” in context of the letter is singular. NO MULTIPLE ACARYAS.


Note: Following the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada the GBC’s concocted that no order is needed any longer, because Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically present. Having left Srila Prabhupada behind, declaring him for dead, ISKCON’s deviated leadership has naturally also left behind Srila Prabhupada’s movement and teachings, with top to bottom perversions in every sphere. Such wholesale deviation is the natural consequence of the desire to unlawfully take the place of Srila Prabhupada. The problem with those so-called 11 “Ritvik-Acaryas” is, that they envied Srila Prabhupada to sit in His seat, (Vyasasana) without having His Divine Graces’ qualities.

Srila Prabhupada: “What will happen when I am not here, shall everything be spoiled by the GBC?
(Srila Prabhupada letter 1972)

“Our mission is to serve (…) Not that you take the place of the guru. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled.” As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru—gurusu nara-matih. That is the material disease.” (Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 20/4/1977)

There was NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada NAMING ANY individual to be Diksa guru. The ONLY order on July 9th 1977 was to act as regular Ritvik representative. NOTHING MORE!!! Furthermore, if someone tells you, “When I order, you jump off the cliff” would you jump? OF COURSE NOT! Clearly, Srila Prabhupada’s use of the word “when” indicates that he did not yet give that order. He ONLY said “WHEN” I order, “You become guru. However, a month later in his July 9, 1977 Final Order, 1st and 2nd initiations for ISKCON wherein he named 11 disciples to act as “Ritvik Representatives of the Acarya” to initiate future disciples on his behalf “henceforward”.

I HAVE GIVEN IN WRITING EVERYTHING, WHATEVER YOU WANTED. Note: Srila Prabhupada clearly stated in his final days 3 times that “everything” which was needed for running ISKCON, he gave in writing: “I have given in writing everything, whatever you wanted—my will, my executive (?) power, everything. Disaster will happen if you cannot manage it. […] I have already given everything in writing.”
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, October 2nd and 3rd, 1977)

In Srila Prabhupada’s Last Will and the July 9th, 1977 directive, it is established that for ISKCON Srila Prabhupada is its initiating Guru. And hence if Srila Prabhupada had wanted to authorize any successor gurus or a system by which successor gurus could emerge in the future, he would also have given this in writing.

In his last will, June 5, 1977 Srila Prabhupada states: “The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) exeutive directors acting at one time.”

Note: In order to carry out this section of Srila Prabhupada’s Will, there must be his initiated disciples present for as long as ISKCON exists, thus necessitating a Ritvik system initiating new disciples on his behalf henceforward which was stated as per his July 9, 1977 Order to all GBC and temple presidents. This will also confirms the no change status of the Ritvik system for after his physical disappearance in his use of the word “henceforward” meaning from now on.

Will be continued on Part 2



  1. Prabhupada said when I give the order you become guru, that's all.

    [PADA: Where did he appoint 11 gurus?]

    He said the law of disciplic succession is once the guru leaves the disciples then become guru.

    [PADA: When the training is complete.]

    He said he wanted all of his disciples to become gurus.

    [PADA: Not what the GBC does? They said 11 were appointed, not all? They kicked out all the devotees. If all of the devotees are gurus, that means they kicked out 5,000 gurus.]

    Therefore he gave the order for ALL of his disciples to become guru.

    [PADA: This was never done, they said there are 11 and then the 11 voted in more, they never said all of the disciples are gurus.]

    Plain and simple.

    [PADA: And then they said gurus engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children because the people they selected as gurus were not qualified.]

    But you will never print this because you cannot defeat this simple logic of Srila Prabhupada's..

    [PADA: We have asked for any proof the 11 were appointed as gurus, and when were they ordered to vote in more gurus? None of this was ordered.]

    You are asking for a letter appointing each and every person in ISKCON who will become a guru from Srila Prabhupada but Srila Prabhupada did not say he would give a letter in writing appointing those he wanted to become guru and would not give a letter to those he did not.

    [PADA: No, the GBC says he appointed 11 gurus? Where is this documented?]

    Rather, we have the example of K. Swami who wanted a letter from Prabhupada stating he was a sannyasi and once he got it Brahmananda had to get it back and Prabhupada said he would write no more such letters because K. Swami misused it. Print this, I dare you, because this argument defeats all the ritviks in a nutshell. on Guru Must Be Authorized (Prabhupadanugas)

    [PADA: The GBC says gurus engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, even a dog has better behavior than their gurus. No, you have not defeated anything, you have never proven the root issue, that 11 were appointed. You have never proven the 11 had the authority to kick out all the rest of the disciples, etc. Where was any of this ordered? And no, they never said all the disciples are gurus, and if they are saying that now, that means they banned 5,000 gurus from ISKCON, banning 5,000 gurus would make them mega-rascals what kind of person bans thousands of gurus? Answer these points please. ys pd]

  2. “Step right up. Become guru!” is the poison bait. It’s Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa’s trick to reveal who the self-motivated rascals are. It’s also His trick to motivate the troublemakers, who would normally be more trouble than they are worth, to actually do a little bit of useful service, such as maintaining the bricks and mortar.

    At some point, the GBC is going to figure out that they have better things to do than to babysit for a bunch of mentally disturbed neophytes pretending to be spiritually advanced gurus.


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