Ritvik Acarya Order Is Bonafide
January 11, 2014
Srila Prabhupada never had a guru-disciple relationship with thousands of his disciples, simply because he never met them! They were initiated via the ritvik system as early as 1973. This system does not appear in any Vaishnava tradition, as far as we know, but Prabhupada he is a mahabhagavata and was fully empowered by the Lord and Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and so therefore could implement, instruct and spread the Holy Name, in a suitable manner considering time, place and circumstance as he saw fit. These are the mysteries of the fully empowered Guru / Mahabhagavata, who is to be considered as good as the Lord.
In my opinion AC Bhaktivedanta was such a rare soul. His example is much different than the souls who artificially placed themselves in such a high position and subsequently came under the power of the illusory energy and fell. “No. Tradition, religion, they are all material. They are also all designations.” (SP Room conversation, 13/3/75, Teheran) “As Hari is not subject to the criticism of mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subjected.” (C.c. Madhya, 10.136, text and purport).
The ritvik system is neither vedic nor non vedic. Just to have an international contact, Prabhupada himself created this system and he is the final authority. It is not against the preaching of the vedas. If we accept any generally applicable teaching or instruction issued by Srila Prabhupada we are automatically, by definition, situated in line with sadhu and sastra. Such teachings and instructions, when issued by a bona fide guru, are all ‘vedic version’, sastric or as good as scriptural evidence (as long as we only accept a ‘mukhya vritti’, or face-meaning interpretation of them) and are thus accepted by all genuine sadhus as proper and sublime. It is thus not necessary to try and satisfy each of these three elements separately.
To argue, as some have done, that we must check Srila Prabhupada’s teachings against the opinions of other sadhus, or with some lesser mortal’s limited understanding of sastra, is tantamount to arguing that Srila Prabhupada is not actually a bona fide guru. After all, only a bogus guru would propose something which was not in line with sadhu and sastra There are several such instances in Sri Vaishnava Parampara (tradition). Take the example of Sri Ramanujacharya himself, who was the foremost amongst the Srivaishnavacharyas. He was initiated into the Srivaishnava texts and secrets by five …great acharyas who are the disciples of Acharya Yamuna.
That is why is called Panchacharya Pradarshita. Though he was a disciple of these five Acharyas, just like the Ritviks appointed by HH Srila Prabhupada ji, these ritviks never claimed that they were the Acharyas of Ramanujacharya. On the other hand, it seems Yamunacharya had seen Ramanuja only once in Kanchipuram when he was studying with Yadava Prakasha, and he also showered blessings on Ramanujacharya from a distance. Very interestingly, Ramanujacharya mentions Yamunacharya and offers obeisances to him in his benedictory verses found in the beginning of the Vedartha sangraha. This shows that Acharya Ramanuja is considered to be a sishya of Yamunacharya only. Besides the very concept of Ritvik has a special significance here. In the olden days there would be a Yajamana who could engage Ritvik, Adhvaryus etc., for the performance of sacrifice.
These people after performing the sacrifice would get some dakshina. But the net result of the sacrifice would go to the Yajaman himself, as he was mainly responsible for the performance. The ritviks were entitled only to initiate disciples into the Hare Krishna Movement. But the disciples thus initiated by these representatives are always considered to be the disciples of Srila Prabhupada only. Since he is the yajamana who has engaged these ritviks for the performance of initiation Disciples thus initiated by the representatives of Srila Prabhupada are only the disciples of Srila Prabhupada only, not of the representatives. This system can continue perpetually even in the physical absence of HDG Srila Prabhupadaji as it has continued in Ramanujas tradition as any person initiated by any acharya has dasyanama likeLakshmittathacharya Ramanuja Dasa though Ramanuja passed away long agoIn the Bhagavad Gita, Srila Prabhupada gives the guru parampara – Brahma, Narada, Vyasa…and so on till Srila Prabhupada. In the rtvik system, who comes after Srila Prabhupada? only the ritvik system continues as srila prabahupada has the acarya. Share this please.
January 11, 2014
Srila Prabhupada never had a guru-disciple relationship with thousands of his disciples, simply because he never met them! They were initiated via the ritvik system as early as 1973. This system does not appear in any Vaishnava tradition, as far as we know, but Prabhupada he is a mahabhagavata and was fully empowered by the Lord and Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and so therefore could implement, instruct and spread the Holy Name, in a suitable manner considering time, place and circumstance as he saw fit. These are the mysteries of the fully empowered Guru / Mahabhagavata, who is to be considered as good as the Lord.
In my opinion AC Bhaktivedanta was such a rare soul. His example is much different than the souls who artificially placed themselves in such a high position and subsequently came under the power of the illusory energy and fell. “No. Tradition, religion, they are all material. They are also all designations.” (SP Room conversation, 13/3/75, Teheran) “As Hari is not subject to the criticism of mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subjected.” (C.c. Madhya, 10.136, text and purport).
The ritvik system is neither vedic nor non vedic. Just to have an international contact, Prabhupada himself created this system and he is the final authority. It is not against the preaching of the vedas. If we accept any generally applicable teaching or instruction issued by Srila Prabhupada we are automatically, by definition, situated in line with sadhu and sastra. Such teachings and instructions, when issued by a bona fide guru, are all ‘vedic version’, sastric or as good as scriptural evidence (as long as we only accept a ‘mukhya vritti’, or face-meaning interpretation of them) and are thus accepted by all genuine sadhus as proper and sublime. It is thus not necessary to try and satisfy each of these three elements separately.
To argue, as some have done, that we must check Srila Prabhupada’s teachings against the opinions of other sadhus, or with some lesser mortal’s limited understanding of sastra, is tantamount to arguing that Srila Prabhupada is not actually a bona fide guru. After all, only a bogus guru would propose something which was not in line with sadhu and sastra There are several such instances in Sri Vaishnava Parampara (tradition). Take the example of Sri Ramanujacharya himself, who was the foremost amongst the Srivaishnavacharyas. He was initiated into the Srivaishnava texts and secrets by five …great acharyas who are the disciples of Acharya Yamuna.
That is why is called Panchacharya Pradarshita. Though he was a disciple of these five Acharyas, just like the Ritviks appointed by HH Srila Prabhupada ji, these ritviks never claimed that they were the Acharyas of Ramanujacharya. On the other hand, it seems Yamunacharya had seen Ramanuja only once in Kanchipuram when he was studying with Yadava Prakasha, and he also showered blessings on Ramanujacharya from a distance. Very interestingly, Ramanujacharya mentions Yamunacharya and offers obeisances to him in his benedictory verses found in the beginning of the Vedartha sangraha. This shows that Acharya Ramanuja is considered to be a sishya of Yamunacharya only. Besides the very concept of Ritvik has a special significance here. In the olden days there would be a Yajamana who could engage Ritvik, Adhvaryus etc., for the performance of sacrifice.
These people after performing the sacrifice would get some dakshina. But the net result of the sacrifice would go to the Yajaman himself, as he was mainly responsible for the performance. The ritviks were entitled only to initiate disciples into the Hare Krishna Movement. But the disciples thus initiated by these representatives are always considered to be the disciples of Srila Prabhupada only. Since he is the yajamana who has engaged these ritviks for the performance of initiation Disciples thus initiated by the representatives of Srila Prabhupada are only the disciples of Srila Prabhupada only, not of the representatives. This system can continue perpetually even in the physical absence of HDG Srila Prabhupadaji as it has continued in Ramanujas tradition as any person initiated by any acharya has dasyanama likeLakshmittathacharya Ramanuja Dasa though Ramanuja passed away long agoIn the Bhagavad Gita, Srila Prabhupada gives the guru parampara – Brahma, Narada, Vyasa…and so on till Srila Prabhupada. In the rtvik system, who comes after Srila Prabhupada? only the ritvik system continues as srila prabahupada has the acarya. Share this please.
The ritviks have been evolving with various interpretations
ReplyDeleteto support their ritvik ideology ever since they got hold
of the July 9th 1977 letter, interpreting it to mean that
Srila Prabhupada wanted to continue to be the initiating
spiritual master complete with fire yajna and accept the
initiated as his disciples even after his departure.
We know that this is not true. Srila Prabhupada did not
say as such in his July 9th letter. While he was present,
he initiated, accepted the initiates as his disciples and
recorded their names in his initiated disciples book.
He didn't say he wants to continue as the initiating
spiritual master after his departure from this planet.
Its the bogus ritviks who are saying this. Its like putting
those words in ones mouth.
Now we have some self appointed ritvik representatives
claiming to be appointed ritvik representatives of the
founder acarya Srila Prabhupada and going around
doing initiations and telling the unsuspecting devotees
that they are Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples.
The latest is the above statement by the writer that
Srila Prabhupada is a yajamana who has engaged these
bogus ritviks to continue to perform initiation on his
behalf after he has departed.
Has anyone ever come across a departed yajamana
engaging ritviks to perform fire sacrifices on his
behalf ?
Brahmananda Puri das claims this is so and considers
it bonafide. What's next? They saw Srila Prabhupada
doing his usual morning walk with his senior disciples
yesterday and gave a class after that ?
Already there is a person who claims he saw Srila
Prabhupada just before he left his body.
Hare Krsna
Thanks Wyatt but I said Srila Prabhupada is the guru because he is qualfied to be the guru, in 1978, way before we had the May 28th tapes, July 9th letter and etc. These items were hidden from most of us. We say he is the guru because he is qualified, thats all I ever said. I never said he was the guru because of some letter, this is a straw man argument. ys pd
ReplyDeleteOf course, Srila Prabhupada is a qualified guru, Puranjana dasa,
ReplyDeletebut more than that he was also compassionate, loyal and was an
obedient disciple of his guru maharaj Bhaktisiddantha Saraswati
Thakura because at that very late age 65 plus based on his guru's
instruction he traveled worldwide to give this knowledge of Krsna
consciousness to everyone.
But the question here is that did Srila Prabhupada say he wanted
to continue to be the initiating spiritual master after his departure
from this planet. And we all know the answer to that. He did not.
HARE KRSNA
So the question was presented to Srila Prabhupada when you are NO --LONGER with us ,so how this initiation will continue -----------So Srila Prabhupada said yes I shall appoint some of you as officiating -----Tamal interjected is that RITVIK ---Srila Prabhupada said YES ---After reading this ,actually this conversation was recorded ,so after one hears this on tape what Srila Prabhupada is Instructions which is should MUST BE OBEYED by his Sincere disciples -------if one rejects his Vani ,than what can be said of the Rejectors ,rather feel pity on such souls as Only Krishna can decide what Birth that will take ---Sorry.
ReplyDeleteYes, he said after I am gone he will live on from his books forever, he said that right here in Berkley in 1975. So he is still the guru, sorry, he said he would be the guru forever in his books, and no one else is? We have a guru, so we do not need to prove anything, you have to prove you have a better alternate. ys pd
ReplyDeleteThe Iskcon/GBC practices initiations via gurus (appointed) and reject the ritvik ideology. The ritviks practice post samadhi ritvik initiation complete with name giving, beads chanting and fire sacrifice performed by some self appointed ritvik representatives as ritvik representatives of Srila Prabhupada and falsely inform the ritvik initiated devotees that they are now Srila Prabhupada initiated disciples.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Whose disciples are they then?]
It is known that the May 28th 1977 taped conversation has been tampered with. The funny thing about this tampering of the tape is that the part where the question and answer about (when you are no longer with us, so how this initiation will continue ........So Srila Prabhupada said yes I shall appoint some of you as officiating........Tamal interjected is that ritvik .......... Srila Prabhupada said yes...) is intact. Whereas the next following middle part of the conversation, probably the most important, detailed discussions on guru, disciple and future initiations on RE: Ritvik Order (by Brahmananda Puri das)
[PADA: Right, in 1970 when I became a devotee I knew I would be promoting Srila Prabhupada after he departed. I did not need any letter, tape or anything else to know that people need to accept him as their guru. And people have thanked me with tears in their eyes for giving them Srila Prabhupada as their guru. ys pd]