Bangalore Case: Hearing of the Main SLP
BY: DAYARAM DASA
November 30, 2013
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Yesterday (29 Nov. 2013) the main SLP came up for hearing. The Bangalore Society (MPD) had filed an application praying that matter be posted after completion of the service to the other respondents. There are 11 Respondents and some of them were not served. The Bench of the Supreme Court has posted the matter for final disposal in the last week of February 2014.
Hare Krsna.
Your servant,
Dayaram dasa
BY: DAYARAM DASA
November 30, 2013
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Yesterday (29 Nov. 2013) the main SLP came up for hearing. The Bangalore Society (MPD) had filed an application praying that matter be posted after completion of the service to the other respondents. There are 11 Respondents and some of them were not served. The Bench of the Supreme Court has posted the matter for final disposal in the last week of February 2014.
Hare Krsna.
Your servant,
Dayaram dasa
[PADA: Yes, this is rather amazing, the GBC has spent allegedly $20 million dollars over there in the Delhi court to prove that Ravindra Swarupa das is the sum total of the demigods, Krishna's successor acharya, and a resident of Krishna loka. What amazes us really is that the courts over there are actually seeming to agree that people like Ravindra Swarupa das are actually bona fide acharyas? Amazing!
Meanwhile, there are a number of ISKCON temples that are falling apart and have no money to pay for the basic repairs and services. The only priority of the GBC is to make sure that Ravindra Swarupa das gets messiah status, no matter what the cost? In any case, the issue is still in the courts, no "agreement" has been reached, which is kind of what we thought all along.
In 1997, when all of this started, we told the IRM and Madhu Pandit etc. to use the real argument, that the GBC is promoting illicit sex with men, women and children as: God's "guru successors in the tradition of India," and as India's acharyas, parampara members, Krishna's messiahs etc. -- and use that argument in India's courts.
None of this long drawn out battle would EVER have gone on if that argument had been used from square one, because no court in India would rule in favor of people who are saying debauchees are Krishna's "living representatives / India's examples of acharyas / angels from Vaikuntha." In fact, the court would have said these people are frauds and they need to be kicked to the curb. Yep, PADA was "too heavy." ys pd]
=====================================
Letter from GBC EC to Madhu Pandit
GBC EC letter to Madhu Pandit: Bangalore prepared to relinquish their Ritvik position.
From: GBC EC
Date: 27-Oct-13 13:52 (19:22 +0530)
Comment: Text PAMHO:25713507 by Anuttama (das) ACBSP (IC N.America)
Subject: From the GBC EC
October 26, 2013
Dear Madhu Pandit Prabhu, Chanchala Pati Prabhu, and Jai Chaitanya Prabhu,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
We have been informed by Bhanu Swami, Jayapataka Swami, and Dayaram Prabhu about the meeting you had with them at the Chennai ISKCON Temple on August 24, 2013. We were informed that the meeting was cordial and that both parties expressed themselves clearly on the issues that have separated us.
It was reported to us that your primary concern is to ensure that Srila Prabhupada's unique position and importance is not minimized within ISKCON now or in the future. We are in complete agreement with you about this point.
As acknowledged previously, we regret that after Srila Prabhupada's departure his status was minimized by some within our society, especially during the "zonal-acharya" period of ISKCON. Our understanding of Srila Prabhupada's unique historical and spiritual position has evolved as we more clearly comprehend the greatness of His Divine Grace's contributions to the Lord's mission.
============================================
ZONAL GURUS
[PADA: Fine except, there has been no change in the zonal guru process? Ravindra Swarupa is STILL stuck in his "zone" of Philadelphia -- as he has been all along; Jayapataka is STILL stuck in his zone of Mayapura; Prabhavishu has been in charge of his "zone" including Australia; Devamrta has his zone -- also in parts of Australia; Harivilas is STILL stuck forever in his zone of Seattle etc. etc. etc., and every year the annual GBC reports still show the "zonal geographical areas" assigned to each of its GBC gurus. They are still gurus for zonal areas -- i.e. zonal gurus. When was this dis-mantled? It was not. Rocana is in the same illusion, he says "the old zonal guru days are gone" --- no, there are still zones assigned to these gurus every year at Mayapura.
[PADA: Diksha means to give pure divyam jnanam and to absorb sins (like Jesus does), ... if Srila Prabhupada is not the source of this, who is?]
*** We are happy to note that you have evolved your views on these points. This opens the door for concrete discussions to resolve our differences, while recognizing your concern that Srila Prabhupada be the preeminent guru in the life of every ISKCON devotee.
Bhanu Swami, Jayapataka Swami, and Dayaram Prabhu informed us that you would like the GBC to establish (a) Srila Prabhupada as the Hari Nam guru, the giver of 1st initiation, for ISKCON devotees, and (b) that persons who serve as diksha gurus in ISKCON will give the 2nd initiation.
[PADA: Dayarama already wrote to tell PADA that he agrees that the bogus GBC has made homosexuals, criminals and other deviants into acharyas. Why does he or anyone else still think that this body is bona fide? And who else would?]
*** We understand that you agree that the devotees who offer 2nd initiation will be called by your group as the diksha guru. Devotees in your group will not claim Srila Prabhupada as their diksha guru and will call the giver of second initiation their diksha guru.
[PADA: OK that is what the GBC policy has said all along, homosexuals, deviants, criminals, molesters, criminals, fools, sahajiyas, and the second wave voted in by this group, and so on -- are diksha gurus who can give pure divyam jnanam and absorb sins like Jesus? This is the basic failed policy they have had all along.]
*** A select committee of GBC Executive Committee members and other senior devotees discussed your proposal on October 9, 2013 at the Juhu Temple, but we did not come to a conclusion concerning making Srila Prabhupada the main guru in 1st initiation. The committee felt that the proposal needs deeper, thoughtful consideration. The GBC will have to ensure that this proposal is in line with scriptures, the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, and would be desired by Srila Prabhupada for ISKCON.
Meanwhile, there are a number of ISKCON temples that are falling apart and have no money to pay for the basic repairs and services. The only priority of the GBC is to make sure that Ravindra Swarupa das gets messiah status, no matter what the cost? In any case, the issue is still in the courts, no "agreement" has been reached, which is kind of what we thought all along.
In 1997, when all of this started, we told the IRM and Madhu Pandit etc. to use the real argument, that the GBC is promoting illicit sex with men, women and children as: God's "guru successors in the tradition of India," and as India's acharyas, parampara members, Krishna's messiahs etc. -- and use that argument in India's courts.
None of this long drawn out battle would EVER have gone on if that argument had been used from square one, because no court in India would rule in favor of people who are saying debauchees are Krishna's "living representatives / India's examples of acharyas / angels from Vaikuntha." In fact, the court would have said these people are frauds and they need to be kicked to the curb. Yep, PADA was "too heavy." ys pd]
=====================================
Letter from GBC EC to Madhu Pandit
GBC EC letter to Madhu Pandit: Bangalore prepared to relinquish their Ritvik position.
From: GBC EC
Date: 27-Oct-13 13:52 (19:22 +0530)
Comment: Text PAMHO:25713507 by Anuttama (das) ACBSP (IC N.America)
Subject: From the GBC EC
October 26, 2013
Dear Madhu Pandit Prabhu, Chanchala Pati Prabhu, and Jai Chaitanya Prabhu,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
We have been informed by Bhanu Swami, Jayapataka Swami, and Dayaram Prabhu about the meeting you had with them at the Chennai ISKCON Temple on August 24, 2013. We were informed that the meeting was cordial and that both parties expressed themselves clearly on the issues that have separated us.
It was reported to us that your primary concern is to ensure that Srila Prabhupada's unique position and importance is not minimized within ISKCON now or in the future. We are in complete agreement with you about this point.
As acknowledged previously, we regret that after Srila Prabhupada's departure his status was minimized by some within our society, especially during the "zonal-acharya" period of ISKCON. Our understanding of Srila Prabhupada's unique historical and spiritual position has evolved as we more clearly comprehend the greatness of His Divine Grace's contributions to the Lord's mission.
============================================
ZONAL GURUS
[PADA: Fine except, there has been no change in the zonal guru process? Ravindra Swarupa is STILL stuck in his "zone" of Philadelphia -- as he has been all along; Jayapataka is STILL stuck in his zone of Mayapura; Prabhavishu has been in charge of his "zone" including Australia; Devamrta has his zone -- also in parts of Australia; Harivilas is STILL stuck forever in his zone of Seattle etc. etc. etc., and every year the annual GBC reports still show the "zonal geographical areas" assigned to each of its GBC gurus. They are still gurus for zonal areas -- i.e. zonal gurus. When was this dis-mantled? It was not. Rocana is in the same illusion, he says "the old zonal guru days are gone" --- no, there are still zones assigned to these gurus every year at Mayapura.
APPOINTED GURUS
In any case the "zonal guru argument" was only a small fractional part of the main complaints about the post-1977 guru system? The main complaint was and still is: There was no "guru appointment" of the original 11 "zonal acharyas" in the first place. And its a lie to say that 11 zonal acharyas were EVER appointed by Srila Prabhupada from square one. So never mind zonal gurus, the first issue that caused problems was -- there was never any "guru appointment" of "the 11 gurus." In other words, Srila Prabhupada said the GBC are zonal managers, and the deviation was -- to telescope acharya titles upon zonal managers.
The "guru reformers" in 1986 such as -- Virabahu das, Jayadvaita swami, Trivrikrama swami, Rocana das, Prithu das, Rupanuga das and others, they thought they have to "fix the 11 appointed gurus with a guru reform." Oooops, they forgot to address the main issue: that there had never been any "guru appointment" to start with? That means, they would have had to dismantle the entire bogus sand castle of appointed gurus and start fresh. These folks just do not get it, the 11 were never appointed as gurus. Of course Norman Perle analysed the appointment tape when we finally got a copy in 1984, and he said it is "consitent with tampering."
Even Tamal said in December 1980, the appointment of 11 GBC gurus is a myth, it never happened. So, you can build a huge giant false structure all day long, but if there is no foundation, whatever you build will come crashing down eventually. And as such -- "the appointment of 11 gurus" myth -- is dissolving more and more every day -- as we speak. Notice these people STILL want to shift to a sideshow of the minor league zonal issue, rather than focus on the original main root issue, that there was never any "appointment" of the original wave of 11 gurus.
Gurus do not have zones, fine, but gurus are also not appointed. And there is simply no evidence that the original 11 were ever appointed as gurus, so their entire foundation for this guru project is false. Of course now they are saying, "All along Srila Prabhupada wanted all of his disciples to be gurus," ok except that is not what has been happening. Sorry, ALL of the disciples were never made into gurus, only the 11 GBC were made into gurus -- based on their claim to have been "appointed," and then they voted in the second wave of gurus.
So their little clique is not "all of the disciples." Worse! "All of the disciples" were generally removed from ISKCON, and they were never told they were also the co-gurus along with the 11? This sounds a little like Stalin, first, he has a giant purge which jails and kills millions of people, then he says "we are all equals, everyone can be like us." OK but why did you have to get rid of so many people to make your system work?
FAULTY GURUS
Worse, this makes it look like Srila Prabhupada appointed faulty people as his acharya successors, and as such their whole guru program is an insult to the acharya. And neither has there been any instruction for the 11 to "2/3 show of hands vote in" more gurus as they are now doing. So the entire foundation for the GBC's post-1977 guru program is suspect, not just the fact that they also deviated by making zones for their gurus. And when they vote in faulty gurus, then they just say, "So what, gurus are full of defects, illusion, and mundane defects, so they will vote for faulty gurus" -- making even more insults to the post of acharya.
In any case the "zonal guru argument" was only a small fractional part of the main complaints about the post-1977 guru system? The main complaint was and still is: There was no "guru appointment" of the original 11 "zonal acharyas" in the first place. And its a lie to say that 11 zonal acharyas were EVER appointed by Srila Prabhupada from square one. So never mind zonal gurus, the first issue that caused problems was -- there was never any "guru appointment" of "the 11 gurus." In other words, Srila Prabhupada said the GBC are zonal managers, and the deviation was -- to telescope acharya titles upon zonal managers.
The "guru reformers" in 1986 such as -- Virabahu das, Jayadvaita swami, Trivrikrama swami, Rocana das, Prithu das, Rupanuga das and others, they thought they have to "fix the 11 appointed gurus with a guru reform." Oooops, they forgot to address the main issue: that there had never been any "guru appointment" to start with? That means, they would have had to dismantle the entire bogus sand castle of appointed gurus and start fresh. These folks just do not get it, the 11 were never appointed as gurus. Of course Norman Perle analysed the appointment tape when we finally got a copy in 1984, and he said it is "consitent with tampering."
Even Tamal said in December 1980, the appointment of 11 GBC gurus is a myth, it never happened. So, you can build a huge giant false structure all day long, but if there is no foundation, whatever you build will come crashing down eventually. And as such -- "the appointment of 11 gurus" myth -- is dissolving more and more every day -- as we speak. Notice these people STILL want to shift to a sideshow of the minor league zonal issue, rather than focus on the original main root issue, that there was never any "appointment" of the original wave of 11 gurus.
Gurus do not have zones, fine, but gurus are also not appointed. And there is simply no evidence that the original 11 were ever appointed as gurus, so their entire foundation for this guru project is false. Of course now they are saying, "All along Srila Prabhupada wanted all of his disciples to be gurus," ok except that is not what has been happening. Sorry, ALL of the disciples were never made into gurus, only the 11 GBC were made into gurus -- based on their claim to have been "appointed," and then they voted in the second wave of gurus.
So their little clique is not "all of the disciples." Worse! "All of the disciples" were generally removed from ISKCON, and they were never told they were also the co-gurus along with the 11? This sounds a little like Stalin, first, he has a giant purge which jails and kills millions of people, then he says "we are all equals, everyone can be like us." OK but why did you have to get rid of so many people to make your system work?
FAULTY GURUS
Worse, this makes it look like Srila Prabhupada appointed faulty people as his acharya successors, and as such their whole guru program is an insult to the acharya. And neither has there been any instruction for the 11 to "2/3 show of hands vote in" more gurus as they are now doing. So the entire foundation for the GBC's post-1977 guru program is suspect, not just the fact that they also deviated by making zones for their gurus. And when they vote in faulty gurus, then they just say, "So what, gurus are full of defects, illusion, and mundane defects, so they will vote for faulty gurus" -- making even more insults to the post of acharya.
ILLICIT SEX GURUS
The next main complaint has been -- that the GBC's gurus are simply not fit to be gurus, whether jagat gurus, world wide gurus, zonal gurus, or any other type of gurus. They keep falling into illicit behaviors; They keep alienating their congregations (like Ravindra Swarupa is doing now); They keep mistreating people; They have a whole history of orchestrated banning, beating, molesting and assassinating of devotees; They keep many temples in ill repair, and the list of problems here is endless. In other words, there is no indication that the GBC is making "gurus" from people who are qualified for the post.
REINSTATING FAULTY / FALLEN GURUS
And worse, they keep propping up (if not reinstating) their faulty co-gurus with many problems as they did with Kirtanananda, Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Bhagavan, Bhavananda, and more recently with Prabhavishnu, Mahanidhi etc. And they still say Ravindra Swarupa Das is a guru despite all the problems he is creating. How can we STILL say that Ravindra Swarupa Das is a diksha guru, i.e. a person who is giving pure divyam jnanam, and he can destroy sins like Jesus, when he is totally upsetting and alienating most of the Philadelphia congregation of devotees?
To say Ravindra Swarupa is still the "sum total of the demigods" an "an acharya" is simply adding more insult to the injuries of his congregation. Never mind Bangalore devotees, does the GBC itself expect any sane people on the entire planet to accept that their "acharayas" like Ravindra Swarupa das are factually the "external manifestations of the supersoul."?]
*** We were informed that in Chennai you stated that you no longer insist that Srila Prabhupada be considered the diksha guru of ISKCON devotees in the future, nor for those who took initiation after the physical departure of His Divine Grace in November 1977.
The next main complaint has been -- that the GBC's gurus are simply not fit to be gurus, whether jagat gurus, world wide gurus, zonal gurus, or any other type of gurus. They keep falling into illicit behaviors; They keep alienating their congregations (like Ravindra Swarupa is doing now); They keep mistreating people; They have a whole history of orchestrated banning, beating, molesting and assassinating of devotees; They keep many temples in ill repair, and the list of problems here is endless. In other words, there is no indication that the GBC is making "gurus" from people who are qualified for the post.
REINSTATING FAULTY / FALLEN GURUS
And worse, they keep propping up (if not reinstating) their faulty co-gurus with many problems as they did with Kirtanananda, Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Bhagavan, Bhavananda, and more recently with Prabhavishnu, Mahanidhi etc. And they still say Ravindra Swarupa Das is a guru despite all the problems he is creating. How can we STILL say that Ravindra Swarupa Das is a diksha guru, i.e. a person who is giving pure divyam jnanam, and he can destroy sins like Jesus, when he is totally upsetting and alienating most of the Philadelphia congregation of devotees?
To say Ravindra Swarupa is still the "sum total of the demigods" an "an acharya" is simply adding more insult to the injuries of his congregation. Never mind Bangalore devotees, does the GBC itself expect any sane people on the entire planet to accept that their "acharayas" like Ravindra Swarupa das are factually the "external manifestations of the supersoul."?]
*** We were informed that in Chennai you stated that you no longer insist that Srila Prabhupada be considered the diksha guru of ISKCON devotees in the future, nor for those who took initiation after the physical departure of His Divine Grace in November 1977.
[PADA: Diksha means to give pure divyam jnanam and to absorb sins (like Jesus does), ... if Srila Prabhupada is not the source of this, who is?]
*** We are happy to note that you have evolved your views on these points. This opens the door for concrete discussions to resolve our differences, while recognizing your concern that Srila Prabhupada be the preeminent guru in the life of every ISKCON devotee.
Bhanu Swami, Jayapataka Swami, and Dayaram Prabhu informed us that you would like the GBC to establish (a) Srila Prabhupada as the Hari Nam guru, the giver of 1st initiation, for ISKCON devotees, and (b) that persons who serve as diksha gurus in ISKCON will give the 2nd initiation.
[PADA: Dayarama already wrote to tell PADA that he agrees that the bogus GBC has made homosexuals, criminals and other deviants into acharyas. Why does he or anyone else still think that this body is bona fide? And who else would?]
*** We understand that you agree that the devotees who offer 2nd initiation will be called by your group as the diksha guru. Devotees in your group will not claim Srila Prabhupada as their diksha guru and will call the giver of second initiation their diksha guru.
[PADA: OK that is what the GBC policy has said all along, homosexuals, deviants, criminals, molesters, criminals, fools, sahajiyas, and the second wave voted in by this group, and so on -- are diksha gurus who can give pure divyam jnanam and absorb sins like Jesus? This is the basic failed policy they have had all along.]
*** A select committee of GBC Executive Committee members and other senior devotees discussed your proposal on October 9, 2013 at the Juhu Temple, but we did not come to a conclusion concerning making Srila Prabhupada the main guru in 1st initiation. The committee felt that the proposal needs deeper, thoughtful consideration. The GBC will have to ensure that this proposal is in line with scriptures, the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, and would be desired by Srila Prabhupada for ISKCON.
[PADA: Hah hah, even if some of the "ritvik people" wanted to compromise, the leaders "did not come to a conclusion" because they do not even want to give even an inch. Even if we wanted to allow them some sort of concession to still be partially worshiped as spiritual emperors of the Jagat, they do not want any part of any form of compromise. They still want deviants to be worshiped as the external manifestations of God, or else they want nothing at all. Actually that is good sign, it means they just have to be exposed more and more since they do not even want any sort of remedy, that means we were right all along to expose them.
Then again, even if we and PADA started to say, ok the GBC is correct, Rvaindra swarupa is the current external representative of God / messiah of Philadelphia, no one would accept that anyway. Even if we compromised with them and started to agree that they are the finest Jagat acharyas of the universe, its too little too late, their credibility is totally shot down the toilet already, it cannot be fixed by all the kings' horses, all the kings men, and even if we tried to help them, their gurus have lost credibility already, its basically over.]
*** In our previous letter we referenced our recent statement regarding Srila Prabhupada's position in ISKCON and his relationship with every devotee: "As the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) and the preeminent teacher and ultimate authority within our society, Srila Prabhupada has a unique relationship with every ISKCON devotee. . ."
[PADA: That is fine, but that has not been the current GBC's policy. Their policy is that we have to worship the GBC's conditioned soul gurus, or be forced out of ISKCON. That is the whole reason for the Bangalore lawsuit in the first place, the Bangalore devotees said that they do not want to worship conditioned souls and deviants as acharyas, and this has lead to a giant legal battle because the GBC does not want to change their policy of having conditioned souls being worshiped as acharyas. Until this root issue is addressed, nothing else can be fixed.]
*** "Srila Prabhupada, as the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, is the preeminent siksa guru for all members of ISKCON. All members of ISKCON, for all generations, are encouraged to seek shelter of Srila Prabhupada. All members of ISKCON are entitled and encouraged to have a personal relationship with Srila Prabhupada through his books, teachings, service, and his ISKCON society. . ."
On this point we seem to agree.
We are also aware of the philosophical point, as explained by Bhanu Swami, that according to sastra, 1st initiation is generally not diksha but only a commitment to chant Hari Nam. Before Srila Prabhupada established it in our sampradaya diksha usually meant pancharatrika diksha (presently what is called 2nd initiation in ISKCON).
[PADA: OK so the people who lied that they had been appointed as gurus are able to conduct initiations? Where is this "pancharatrika guru" also mentioned by Srila Prabhupada? Satsvarupa has said that regular guru means, a conditioned sadhaka "i.e. pancharatrika guru" who performs all the practices, ok where does Srila Prabhupada say that the still conditioned sadhakas are qualified to be worshiped as parampara members and diksha gurus?]
*** But, it is also a fact that Srila Prabhupada established the system of giving 1st and 2nd initiation and that he used the term, "1st initiation." Therefore, again, before making any changes, the GBC body needs to give careful consideration.In short, we are pleased that you have moved away from the "Ritvik" ideology and we now sincerely hope to find ways to accommodate your group of devotees within the greater ISKCON.
[PADA: No, we have not moved away from the ritvik idea, we have proven that you are not even qualified to be ritviks since, no bona fide brahmanas have ever supported the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as acharyas and messiahs, its not done by any bona fide vaishnavas ever.]
In the meantime, we are open to hearing other ideas you may have to help in clarifying Srila Prabhupada's position as both Founder-Acharya and preeminent siksha guru for all of ISKCON.
Your servants,
GBC Executive Committee
Tamohara das, Chair
Anuttama das
Praghosa das
[PADA: Right, the group that has viciously enforced the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as messiahs think they are still calling all the shots in the world. Nope, they have no credibility and never will until they give up these deviations. It really does not matter what is done by this group, until the root issue is addressed, that illicit sex and debauchees and their cheer leaders are not spiritual masters, no other agreement will be accepted by the mass of devotees. ys pd]
Then again, even if we and PADA started to say, ok the GBC is correct, Rvaindra swarupa is the current external representative of God / messiah of Philadelphia, no one would accept that anyway. Even if we compromised with them and started to agree that they are the finest Jagat acharyas of the universe, its too little too late, their credibility is totally shot down the toilet already, it cannot be fixed by all the kings' horses, all the kings men, and even if we tried to help them, their gurus have lost credibility already, its basically over.]
*** In our previous letter we referenced our recent statement regarding Srila Prabhupada's position in ISKCON and his relationship with every devotee: "As the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) and the preeminent teacher and ultimate authority within our society, Srila Prabhupada has a unique relationship with every ISKCON devotee. . ."
[PADA: That is fine, but that has not been the current GBC's policy. Their policy is that we have to worship the GBC's conditioned soul gurus, or be forced out of ISKCON. That is the whole reason for the Bangalore lawsuit in the first place, the Bangalore devotees said that they do not want to worship conditioned souls and deviants as acharyas, and this has lead to a giant legal battle because the GBC does not want to change their policy of having conditioned souls being worshiped as acharyas. Until this root issue is addressed, nothing else can be fixed.]
*** "Srila Prabhupada, as the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, is the preeminent siksa guru for all members of ISKCON. All members of ISKCON, for all generations, are encouraged to seek shelter of Srila Prabhupada. All members of ISKCON are entitled and encouraged to have a personal relationship with Srila Prabhupada through his books, teachings, service, and his ISKCON society. . ."
On this point we seem to agree.
We are also aware of the philosophical point, as explained by Bhanu Swami, that according to sastra, 1st initiation is generally not diksha but only a commitment to chant Hari Nam. Before Srila Prabhupada established it in our sampradaya diksha usually meant pancharatrika diksha (presently what is called 2nd initiation in ISKCON).
[PADA: OK so the people who lied that they had been appointed as gurus are able to conduct initiations? Where is this "pancharatrika guru" also mentioned by Srila Prabhupada? Satsvarupa has said that regular guru means, a conditioned sadhaka "i.e. pancharatrika guru" who performs all the practices, ok where does Srila Prabhupada say that the still conditioned sadhakas are qualified to be worshiped as parampara members and diksha gurus?]
*** But, it is also a fact that Srila Prabhupada established the system of giving 1st and 2nd initiation and that he used the term, "1st initiation." Therefore, again, before making any changes, the GBC body needs to give careful consideration.In short, we are pleased that you have moved away from the "Ritvik" ideology and we now sincerely hope to find ways to accommodate your group of devotees within the greater ISKCON.
[PADA: No, we have not moved away from the ritvik idea, we have proven that you are not even qualified to be ritviks since, no bona fide brahmanas have ever supported the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as acharyas and messiahs, its not done by any bona fide vaishnavas ever.]
In the meantime, we are open to hearing other ideas you may have to help in clarifying Srila Prabhupada's position as both Founder-Acharya and preeminent siksha guru for all of ISKCON.
Your servants,
GBC Executive Committee
Tamohara das, Chair
Anuttama das
Praghosa das
[PADA: Right, the group that has viciously enforced the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as messiahs think they are still calling all the shots in the world. Nope, they have no credibility and never will until they give up these deviations. It really does not matter what is done by this group, until the root issue is addressed, that illicit sex and debauchees and their cheer leaders are not spiritual masters, no other agreement will be accepted by the mass of devotees. ys pd]
"Bhanu Swami, Jayapataka Swami, and Dayaram Prabhu informed us that you would like the GBC to establish (a) Srila Prabhupada as the Hari Nam guru, the giver of 1st initiation, for ISKCON devotees, and (b) that persons who serve as diksha gurus in ISKCON will give the 2nd initiation."
ReplyDeleteThis statement is pure nonsense. How is it that Srila Prabhupada can give first initiation, but is not 'empowered' to give 2nd initiation?! Madhu Pandit needs to make his own statement as to what his position is, we can't rely on the GBC. Is he a ritvik or a philosophical compromiser only interested in keeping control of men, money and properties?
Madhu Pandit pr and his men did a good job. However, Madhu Pandit and his men were not able to expand and open more Prabhupada temples outside of India.
ReplyDeleteThis is because the whole world is fielded into GBC zones. If the Bangalore devotees would open a temple lets say in Germany, Ravindra svarupa would veto that this is his zone.
Same everywhere. So finally Madhu Pandit was surrounded, isolated, starved out and finally brought to his knees.
What is happening now is beyond his control. The Bangalore devotees did what they could within the realms of possibility. Any further obstructing GBC rule would have inevitably ended with eviction and exclusion from ISKCON.
On the other hand, GBC are inching their way into accepting that only Srila Prabhupada can deliver the members of Iskcon. Many Iskcon gurus today say that they can take the disciples to Srila Prabhupada and he will take them to Krishna. A BIG difference in stance than from the original one.
Fact is that after having driven out all sincere devotees ISKCON was filled up with those who more or less exploit that deviant situation of ISKCON. In other words, these new generation of ISKCON members know well that these gurus are not fully liberated paramahamsas.
So there is quite some rigidity required in order to rectify this liaison of pseudo gurus and insincere followers. Otherwise this mental game of fake guru and fake disciple goes on like in Bengal's sahajiya camp, hundreds of years.
Jayapataka admits all these GBC gurus fall down from aparadhas, how come they are gurus if they are aparadha? Not understanding this at all.
ReplyDeletehttp://harekrishnaquotes.com/jayapataka-swami-on-vaishnava-aparadha/
nice one ,if they are gurus and fallen down due to aparadhas,gbc -godless bunch of crooks ,and ravana sawrup he is a failure ,his daughter is a punk star,his wife hates him,his temple is mice ridden ---I will say no more .
DeleteHARE KRSNA--ALL GLORIES TO HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C.BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA! --- So,Prabhu,does this mean what I think it means? Has Madhu Pandit dasa actually let the false gurus win? After all this time of him being called "SRI" Madhu Pandit??? Are they going to let all the new Srila Prabhupada initiates become 'reinitiated' by rascals? If this is the case,then I want to PUKE! Thank SRI KRSNA that I never sent the Bangalore temple a donation.
ReplyDeleteNo one said that Madhu Pandit had agreed to this proposal, and the letter itself says the GBC has not agreed to this proposal. Its all going to court again, no agreement has been reached. ys pd
ReplyDeleteHARE KRSNA--I see I was too quick to jump to my conclusion .I will wait and see exactly what happens before making an ass of myself...HARIBOL!
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