Thursday, December 12, 2013

PADA News from January 3, 2000

Gauridasa writesDate: 03. Jan. 2000 From: (pada)

1) "BEING OFFENSIVE" update.
3) To Those Who Would Lead Us In 2000
4) From:
Dear folks, PAMHO. AGTSP.
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PADA: Did you see this prabhu?Vic: yes sir.
[PADA: What can I say? Another guy who thinks that molestation and murder,in the name of gurus worshipped like Jesus, is something to respond to withsmart ass remarks, hey just like the GBC! And Vic admits he is trained upby Dhanurdhara, a KNOWN child beater and supporter of the homosexualpedophile guru lineage? Hmmm, just when we thought that Vic was going toreally show us he is not from that mold? Come on Vic, you know better thanto chant GBC styled wisecracks on these topics. Update: Vic just said thatthose of us who tried to stop the molestation are: kuku (but Dhanurdhara isa good guy)! Told ya!]
Dear Raghu, I had already replied to your articles on economics previouslyand had said that these things can only be developed when our society ismore stable. Right now, as Sridhari dd says, it is like an atomic bomb hasgone off in our city. Under such circumstances, building a community effortlike economics is very difficult. The Gaudiya Matha also dwindled ineconomic respects due to making false gurus, Jim Jones movement crumbleddue to false pooja and so on and so forth.
Just look at any place in the world where there is "relgion in conflict"and you will see that the economy is the first thing to be totally shot to hell, and the poor citizens suffer horribly. Thus, this schism influence has to be routed out before the economic reform can be proposed. Just like Hare Krishna dasi, she writes about ox power and farms, but she cannot tolerate living on an actual ISKCON farm under the current managers, and having real oxen. So, your and her ideas are good, for down the road development, but are hard for us to find a proper application right now.Also, the "next letter" you asked about was in an article penned by someone else, not us. He is still working on that letter. Hope this helps....
1) "BEING OFFENSIVE" update. Some of our Gaudiya Matha friends keep writingto tell us that "PADA is being offensive" for challenging their GaudiyaMatha support of folks like the GBC as --gurus. That is the difference between Srila Prabhupada and many of his God brothers. We could all ask Srila Prabhupada, "Are persons who are taking drugs and engaging in illicit sex, and their backers from the Gaudiya Matha, bona fide gurus"? 

Srila Prabhupada would not EVERsay, "What an offensive question!" No. He'd just say, "No, they are not, and were not, bona fide gurus." Bas. Simple. Why can't we return to the actual shastric standard?
In fact, Srila Prabhupada says that Professor Sannyal, Sridhara Maharaja'sco-helper in the 1936 guru debacle, was killed by Krishna for supporting this bogus guru Ananta Vasudeva. So, he confirms that both the bogus gurus --and-- their supporters are severely offensive. So, are we to say thent hat Srila Prabhupada was being offensive for pointing these things out, as the Gaudiya Matha folks seem to imply? What is the point here? And the Gaudiya Matha folks are still saying that the GBC idea is not found in shastra, meaning what, that they are proud of deviating from the order of their guru and dismantling his GBC idea?
Srila Prabhupada would also not EVER say, "When Ramesvara is out dating a 13 year old girl at night he is not a guru, but when he puts on saffron in the morning he is a guru," ...the type of antics which were reported to Sridhara Maharaja and he kept saying that Jayatirtha, Ramesvara et al.should be still be worshiped as acharyas since, "We must not to disturb the sraddha (faith) of the disciple." Faith, in what? Disciple of, what?Worship of, what?

And why do they never explain this, instead they resort to name calling when we ask? I thought that the sanskrit term "sraddha" meant, faith in God and His bona fide guru, not faith in molester's worship? What kind of"faith" is this? Why is this such a big complicated "shastric discussion"deal? Ask anyone on the street the same question, "Are the people who are taking drugs and having illicit sex, and their cheerleaders, gurus"? Nope.This is basic ABC stuff.
We find it rather amazing how people write everything under the sun to us except, "Well right, these people are not, were not, could not have been: acharyas, parampara gurus, diksha gurus, etc. Right. Agreed." Why is this like pulling a mule here? Tripurari reportedly said that some gurus have one foot here, one foot there, one foot here. Hmmmm? And does he know where they are sticking their other body parts? Small wonder the GBC invited him to speak in LA recently.

Anyway, everybody else in the universe knows that these fallen GBC people are not, were not, could not have been bona fide gurus, except a few holdouts? Also, Jayatirtha's folks said we are "being offensive" in 1978. Why can't we ever get a new line of argument? We hate to be the one to point this out, but your classic "shastric arguments" ended up keeping Jayatirthain power for many more years and caused considerable mayhem, not the least of which is that his head was chopped off and this was reported to millions in the newspapers "Guru's Head Hacked Off." That is the end result of your supporting this man as an acharya.

Why not say, no, he never was a guru? Why not admit? Why is it "offensive"to ask if homosexuals, fools, idiots, rascals and murderers, and their backers, are or were gurus and rati keli residents of Vaikuntha no less? We just don't get it? How can we say that clarifying whom is an acharya and resident of Vaikuntha is offensive? And why not inform the public, "Well the GBC thought he was a guru, and the Gaudiya Matha endorsed him as a guru, but, nope, he was never a guru." This will be a good step towards creating the minimal public credibility of ISKCON.
Srila Prabhupada: "As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration.Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned ...Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishnaconsciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna."
(Part of a paper made by the GBC) "THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI ORKRISHNA LILA", taken from an Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada Transcribed as "Nectar of the Month," BBT Report, January, 1982.

"The living entity cannot be forgetful of his real identity unless influenced by the avidya potency." Srimad Bhagavatam 3.7.5

"We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father, or God--or Krishna." Lecture, 10.07.75

"...but, in the material world, by the spell of maya or illusion, this eternal relation with the Supreme Personality of Godhead is forgotten..."Srimad Bhagavatam 1.15.25-26
" the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there." Letter to Rayarama, 12.2.68

"So, there is chance of falling down even from the personal association ofGod..." Room conversation, 9.19.73
"The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature.And this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
"When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop aconsciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53

"When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he alsoforgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.37
"Yes. The conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus werewith Krishna before being conditioned ...similarly, each soul has seen Krishna..." Letter to Jagadish, 2.25.70
"We are all originally Krishna conscious entities..." Hare Krishna album
"Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into maya’sinfluence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. 

Usually,anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name..." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70

PADA: BUT! Sridhara Maharaja says: "The fallen souls come from the marginal position within the brahmajyoti and not from Vaikuntha." No! We do not originate in the brahmajyoti, moreover Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura says that the brahma-jyoti is hell for the vaishnavas. So, the idea that we originate in hell is --wrong.

3) To Those Who Would Lead Us In 2000

Here follows a list of New Year Resolutions I would consider important, and should seriously be considered by all the leaders of our beloved ISKCON.
1. Replace harshness with compassion, and pride with humility.
[PADA: That has not been able to happen since the GBC and Gaudiya Mathahave said that the rude, the crude, the belligerant, the harsh, the non-compassionate, the non-humble, the violent, and so on, are --eternal gurus. And as such, trying to replace such bogus gurus is very difficult because they create violent cults. So, while talking about "replacing" we have to address: why has it been so hard to dislodge these harsh or evil persons? So let us look at the guru cults or vapuh-vada root ideas.]
2. Address long standing grievences rather than sweep them under the rug.
[PADA: Once again, thanks to the GBC and Gaudiya Matha targetting bogus people as gurus, there is a tendency to sweep genuine problems under the rug. As Sridhara Maharaja says, "You cannot criticize (his and the GBC'sbogus gurus) since this will destroy the sraddha of the disciple."Meanwhile, the bogus guru is destroying everything he comes in contact with. Read: do not speak up. And of course, the GBC will ensure that you get banned, beaten and shot if you do speak up.]
3. Show more concern for people, than buildings and bank balances.
[PADA: Gaudiya Matha outcome for sure, bricks and stones.]
3. Replace ambitious leaders with qualified ones.
[PADA: Another contradiction. An ambitious person is not a guru.]
4. Bring to justice all those who have committed unspeakable crimes.
[PADA: OK good, for starters issue a decree that they are not, were not,gurus.]
5. Stop demanding respect.6. Consider power and prestige no longer motives.7. Give up arrogance, politics and deception.
[PADA: And why has the GBC and the Gaudiya Matha targetted people with these qualities as gurus?]
8. Stop thinking that we have a patent on Prabhupada's mission.
[PADA: Ditto of what occured in the Gaudiya Matha.]
9. Realize that the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is absolute and cannot be altered by legislation.
[PADA: Ditto of the Gaudiya Matha, "High Court Judge" consciousness.]
10. Understand that the problems facing our movement cannot be corrected by mundane solutions.

11. Start thinking ourselves as servants rather than masters.

12. Stop the merciless sacrifice of countless gentle souls on the plea of"mercy" for a handful of rogues.
[PADA: Well, why did the GBC and the Gaudiya Matha say these rogues are gurus?]
13. Develop enough courage and integrity to apologize to those we hurt so much.

14. Bring back to the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet, all those we have driven away.
15. Acknowledge Srila Prabhupada's pre-eminence.
[PADA: Oh oh! The ritvik deviation! He shall be beaten upon with shoes!]
16. Develop selfless dedication to Srila Prabhupada.
[PADA: The GBC and Narayana Maharaja say that is not possible since youmust worship a living --GBC or molester?]
17. Sincerely pray every day that the Supreme Lord may save us from the most heinous forms of punishment meted out to offenders, as described inthe Srimad Bhagavatam.

[PADA: Well, if you do not believe in God you need not fear anything.Stupidity.]

4) From: Gauridas@aol.comDate: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:53:09 EST

Subject: Re: Happy 2000
Dear Puranjana Prabhu, PAMRO AGTSP! Thanks for the good wishes. I want to start the year out right and set a trend for more reform so I wrote Svavasa this letter. I hope our victory for Srila Prabhupada is near. Best wishes,Gauridasa Pandita Dasa

A Challenge to 'The Ritvik Heresy'
Dear Svavasa Prabhu, January 1, 2000
Happy New Year !!!Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada
I am writing you to beg a bold request. Please remove the paper, 'TheRitvik Heresy' from the alter of Sri Sri Rukmini and Dwarkadish in the temple room.
[PADA: Gauridasa! The GBC has no interest in honest debate, but we like your plucky nature. Keep it up! Even Srila Prabhupada kept asking theGaudiya Matha to fix their guru mess, knowing that they probably would not.]

GD: If you won't remove it and you still think the paper is philosophically sound and should remain there, then please prove it and allow Yasodanandan Prabhu and myself to debate the author of it and anyone else you think would be appropriate. You can invite devotees from around the world or just a few and videotape it. It can be done sooner or later at Rathayatra time when so many devotees come to LA.
The last debate we had was at the GBC meeting in San Diego in 1990, 10 years ago! The resolution of that meeting was to have another meeting and discuss this most important issue further. That meeting has not happened to date. Please allow a meeting to happen and help us to resolve this matter, so we can cooperate more and more again as Srila Prabhupada wants.

The new anti-ritvik video, 'Disciple of my Disciple' was played in the temple room on Srila Prabhupada's disappearance day. The Producer of thevideo says it is an uncensored video. How come it is only one sided? How come I was not asked to contribute? I being one of the direct witnesses to these instructions. It's just politics again! How long will this go on? It's time to work to resolve this matter and stop offending devotees,especially Srila Prabhupada!
Both sides of this issue need to meet in a nice Vaisnava fashion and stop throwing booms over the fence hoping that it ends the controversy. Itwon't! Only the Truth will prevail! And that is that Srila Prabhupada is still the Guru of ISKCON and can and will deliver any and all who take shelter of him and follow his instructions. Our duty is to help people take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, not ourselves. We should inspire the devotees to take shelter of Srila Prabhupada as Visnujana Swami did.
We need to have open communications with all honesty to resolve our problems and then we can work together to push on this great movement in this new century. Let the Golden Age of Lord Chaitanya continue without politics and then it will attract so many more souls to cooperate and spread the Sankirtan mission of Sri Sri Guru and Gouranga.

Guests are coming to get some mercy and nectar from the temple and they are getting politics. Just yesterday a devotee came up to me and said that he didn't know what initiation system Srila Prabhupada wanted after his departure, but whatever it may be, that Ritvik Heresy paper should not be in the temple room. Please do your duty as a leader and give us the nectar, not politics.

I can say with all certainty that the paper in question is in direct opposition to what Srila Prabhupada said regarding ISKCON Initiations. I personally heard these instructions and they are on tape and documented in the July 9th 1977 Newsletter to all GBC's and Temple Presidents. The Ritvik Heresy paper is an insult and an offense to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. I have written a response to that paper called 'Dr. Frog Philosophy' (attached at end) and there is another response called 'The GBC Heresy' (available upon request) but I don't pass these out to the innocent guests. 

Don't you care about being implicated in the reactions as the localleader? Don't you think a further study and discussion would beappropriate? I hope so!

You are doing a great job with the temple with book distribution and the restaurant and so many things. But you also need to improve in certain departments. Your support of that paper being one of them. I hope that istagosthi's are performed regularly with all well behaved devotees invited.

We all have ideas on how to improve our services and so many more would like to be involved with the temple and devotional service in general. Iwould like to give a little more advice now and that is we need more Kirtan! Srila Prabhupada wrote that if the temple has problems we should have a big Kirtan. Kirtan is our medicine! All of the Kirtans are rather short compared to the 'good old days'. I think more would join also if they got a good taste of the nectar of Kirtan rasa. 

Class could be rescheduled to before the greeting of the Deities and then the Kirtan could go on and those who had to leave could and those who want more nectar could stay. Theevening arati is short also, and so many interested guests are sometimes rudely turnedaway. Can the temple room stay open later and have someone else lock it up?

Another point I would like to raise is that you should preach to the devotees to respect each other regardless of our individual opinions. There is too much impersonalism due to the politics. Love, trust and respect is lacking. Please excuse me for being so direct but I speak only out of duty and because I do respect you a lot. I am advising you for your and thecommunities benefit. My only desire is to follow Srila Prabhupada'sinstructions and help spread the Sankirtan Mission. I am ready to cooperateand I hope you are too.

Hoping this meets you well!Your servant, Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
Article Dr Frog Philosophy:
Dr. Frog Philosophy
There have been so many articles on the ritvik initiation system lately both for and against it, that it is a constant job to keep up with it all.If you look at those who are for it and at those who are against it you will find an obvious contrast. The devotees who are against it are usuallyISKCON gurus; ISKCON wanna be gurus; Gaudiya Math gurus; Gaudiya Math wannabe gurus and fanatical followers of the all of the above.
The Devotees who are for the ritvik system are an ever-increasing group ofsincere devotees who just want to see Srila Prabhupada's orders carried outso that we can have a reunited and expanding movement again. What could bethe ulterior motive of these individuals? The possible ulterior motives for those who are against the ritvik initiation system are obvious. Profit,distinction and adoration to name a few. Plus since ISKCON has no retirement account it's a good way to secure one. The guru system has become a business in ISKCON as elsewhere. It's time to separate the two.

It's time to put Srila Prabhupada back as the one and only diksa guru in ISKCON. We all accept the fact that he is the main siksa guru in ISKCON,but we must understand also that he should be the only diksa guru in ISKCON. This will happen when the proper initiation system is put in placeby the proper authority, the GBC.
So many devotees are writing against the ritvik initiation system with a poor fund of knowledge. It's kind of like the example that Srila Prabhupadaused to give of the frog in the well. The frog is trying to understand how big the ocean is by comparing it with his well. Then he compares it withhis throat by expanding it bigger and bigger until it explodes! This iswhat the critics are doing to themselves by condemning Srila Prabhupada'sinstructions for such a system as outlined in his July 9th 1977 Newsletter to all GBC's and Temple Presidents. They don't understand how serious it isto condemn these instructions as the GBC themselves have done with official resolutions against the ritvik initiation system. Those who preach against it and mislead others are guilty of disobeying the orders of the spiritual master, a serious offense.

They are guilty of offending hundreds, maybe thousands of devotees, by disobeying Srila Prabhupada's instructions. They have turned a good wordinto a bad one. It's time to rectify this situation. The GBC must act soon.How many nice devotees have to be abused by the 'gurus' and leave the mission before it sinks in, that something is wrong in ISKCON!
Now we even have the scientist preacher getting into the debate! Does hewant to be a guru too? He had one librarian who was interested in himbefore; but I think she got fried with his politics. He authored the paper,'The Ritvik Heresy' where he uses a tape that has been proven to be doctored as his 'main evidence' and ignores Srila Prabhupada's written order of July 9th 1977! 

Srila Prabhupada never made a policy change on a tape! He did everything in writing. At the same time on the May 28th tape he says he's appointing officiating acharyas or ritviks to initiate his disciples 'after his departure' in the beginning of the tape, before any doctoring occurs. He also says that you can be a 'regular guru' when heorders us. Has any of the current gurus received this order? And if they have they should be a guru in their own temples. They should have the potency to inspire and expandthe preaching mission as Srila Prabhupada did. For this 'scientificpreacher' to preach about the initiation system is like the frog in thewell trying to understand the ocean.

This is Dr. Frog Philosophy! That's the real heresy! This author has also written a piece called Officiating Acharya = Ritvik Acharya = Diksa Guru.On one hand in his Ritvik Heresy paper, he condemns the ritvik initiation system and on the other hand here he's saying the ritvik priests are equal to diksa gurus! "Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another."That's scientific! The real tittle should read Officiating Acharya = RitvikAcharya = Deputy.

These are the terms Srila Prabhupada used.
On October 18 1977, less than a month before his departure, Srila Prabhupada said: Hare Krsna. One Bengali gentleman has come from New York? Tamal KG: Yes; Mr Sukamal Roy Chowdury.Srila Prabhupada: So I have deputed some of you to initiate. Hmm?TKG: Yes. Actually...Yes, Srila Prabhupada.Srila Prabhupada: So I think Jayapataka can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.TKG: Yes.Srila Prabhupada: So, deputies, Jayapataka's name was there? Bhagavan: It is already on there, Srila Prabhupada. His name was on that list.Srila Prabhupada: So I depute him to do this at Mayapura, and you may gowith him. I stop for the time being. Is that alright? TKG: Stopped doing what, Srila Prabhupada? Srila Prabhupada: This initiation. I have deputed the, my disciples. Is itclear or not?Giriraja: It's clear.Srila Prabhupada: You have got the list of names? TKG: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada: And if by Krsna's grace I recover from this condition,then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good. Giriraja: We will explain to him so that he will understand properly. Srila Prabhupada: Hm? Hm?

Giriraja: I said we will explain to the Bengali gentleman just as you havedescribed to us, so that he'll be satisfied with this arrangement.

We need to stick to what the guru actually said and not engage in speculations and fancy word jugglery that is so common today. Srila Prabhupada never appointed diksa gurus as is alleged by so many today. H epreached strongly against it. 

I just read another long article against theritvik initiation system that started out saying it was short. Anyone who read it could see that it was very long. Many articles claim that the ritvik system isn't supported by guru, sastra and sadhu. Isn't Srila Prabhupada the guru? He said to do it! Whatever the bona fide guru says to his disciples is as good as sastra and there is nothing in sastra forbidding it! Ritvik priests, or officiators, are mentioned in the sastra.

In the Krsna book there are the brahmin priests and ritviks are mentionedi n other parts of the Srimad Bhagavatam. It is supported by sadhus such asSridhara Maharaja who also ordered a ritvik initiation system before hepassed away. It is also supported by hundreds of current sadhus. So theritvik system is supported by guru, sastra and sadhu and the sooner we face the Truth and act on it the better off we'll be!
I personally heard Srila Prabhupada order the ritvik initiation system forthe future of ISKCON but no GBC man, (except one who didn't keep his wordthat there would be major changes in ISKCON), has cared to ask me about it.They ask everyone but the witnesses in this regard and that alone issuspicious. The Ritvik Heresy papers are still in the LA Temple room for the innocent public based on unscientific research, the same thing the author criticizes the materialistic scientists for, while the Truth is still hidden.

It's time to stop listening to the croaking of the frogs in the wells, who will just get eaten by the snakes of offenses, and listen to Srila Prabhupada without adding or subtracting anything. Your servant, GauridasaPandita Dasa



  1. Many good points. The main thing is no matter what you tell the GBC are they gonig to care a fig about what is right and what is wrong? When we have so called gurus dating 13 year olds and men molesting boys there is a reason for that, this is what they want, not to be told how to run the movement in a genuine Krishna Conscious manner.

    This excuse that "You are being offensive and therefore we will beat you up" was started by whom? The replacement gurus who came after Prabhupada. Was it not? So who are the offensive ones here, the gurus who cheat and tell us to worship them so as not to break the faith of the devotees they are cheating or the ones that don't wish to cheat and want to inform the devotees of what is right?

    There was a movie called "The Replacement Killers". Some may argue, why not just pretend the replacement killers are genuine gurus, what harm can it do? The harm is, do you want such "gurus" having sex with your children, wives, husbands, etc. in the name of Krishna Consciousness? If you don't have the compassion to think in terms of saving the new devotees who join can't you at least try to save your own children? Your husbands? Your wives? Anyone at all? Or are you so selfish all you can think about is your position in the temple, hanging vicariously on a thread?

  2. Dear PADA: Prabhupdanugas are more or less letting things happen and years are passing by. As soon there are sincere activists and reformers in real life, they get organized and put one's money where one's mouth is. Not this kind of a bunch of disorganized splinter groups who at one point even go against each other.

    Or out of despair read all day nazi conspiracy websites.

    Then there are those who constantly post headlines that make you furious, enflamed with rage. Except that you're getting totally angry nothing happens. Finally you end up to all day gnash one's teeth in anger, to stifle one's anger and to lose one's temper what makes you terribly sick.

    Depression, bad health, pneumonia, melancholy, to fall into gloom. So this is not what Prabhupada wants. Prabhupada immediately presented solutions. Prabhupada does not beat about the bush but immediately comes to the point. Hansadutta has now his new group of Heil Hitler freaks, Others are instrumental in making a facebook mob against you and the Prabhupadanugas, its too bad.

    [PADA: I agree. ys pd]


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