Wednesday, December 25, 2013

Dusyanta Is Rudderless and Guru-less

The Ritvik Colour


I must write to concur with Prahlada Nrsimha Prabhu in his article about the IRM, Ritviks and all. Some Ritviks have now reached the point of no return in their perfectly non-transparent interpretations of English words on paper. They have coloured the enquiries and answers so much now that it is unlikely they will ever get to understand the Guru Tattva issue from an all-encompassing angle.

[PADA: Notice that Rocana, Dusyanta, Prahlad Nrsingha, Kailash chandra and similar other "Sampradya Sun" writers never mention the name of their so-called living guru. They imply that they are following and worshiping a living guru, but they are apparently -- not following any. Meanwhile, they insist that others follow their living guru, but they never explain -- who that is? 

If they have a living guru, who is he? They speak of "guru tattva" but never mention the NAME of the guru they want us to worship. So we need to worship someone who is living, but, we have no idea who that might be? This is called mental speculation, ... could be, may be, might be, sorta should be -- a living guru. Yep and I should -- could -- maybe --- might -- buy a Cadillac next week because I "could be" a millionaire tomorrow? Speculation.   

What is their actual idea? "You cannot worship a departed guru, rather you need to worship our living guru, oops -- but we forgot who that is"? They want to start a new spiritual movement based on their self-advertised process -- worship of the living guru -- but they never mention who is "the living guru" is. Thus, they really have no living guru, and hence no living guru's books, lectures, photos, temples, devotees, -- no nothing to show where their alleged "guru" and his worship idea is being implemented and is working?

Dusyanta and Prahlad Nrsingha simply say we cannot worship Srila Prabhupada now, that is a deviation. Instead, we need to worship their alleged living guru, or be fools on the hill along with them waiting for the next messiah. How is that going to work practically? We are going to tell people (a) join us in the worship our living guru, fine except (b) we are worshiping no living guru whatsoever, and never mention who that is?

What kind of religion is that?

We want you to worship the living guru, who may or may not even exist, and who may or may not appear soon -- and who may never ever -- appear -- ever? No wonder they have no programs, or process ongoing. This is like Doomsday cults asking people to wait for Jesus to take them away. ]

DD: On the site I recently wrote a challenging article concerning their interpretation of the July 9th Letter. They seem to think that one word, "henceforward" is equal to the phrase "after Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically existing."

[PADA: What proof is there that the word "henceforward" does not apply to when he is not here physically? Where is the proof that 11 gurus were appointed? If Srila Prabhupada did NOT want his followers to act as his preachers, agents, priests / ritviks -- what else did he order then? And where was that order given?

We cannot simply say, "he did NOT order his followers to act as his agents and preachers, rather he wanted his followers to act as his acharya successors as soon as he departed" -- without citing any evidence where he ordered that? If he ordered one guru -- or eleven gurus, or someone else like Sridhara Maharaja to act as his successor acharya -- as soon as he departed -- where was this order given? Dusyanta says worship of the acharya is bogus because the acharya ordered us to worship the "living" pure person, --- what living pure person? Where is this living pure person? Is this living pure person a phantasm who does not even exist?]

DD: So I challenged that interpretation and offered up a more reasonable meaning, that "henceforward" referred more to the change in the initiations protocols and that the whole July 9th Letter was not so absolutely enforcing that protocol, rather it was a choice for the Temple Presidents of the day and a response to the huge queue of devotees waiting for initiation. Also that the word "henceforward" in the context of the July 9th Letter did not apply holistically to the whole letter.

[PADA: OK, what was ordered henceforward? That we should have joined Rocana in his support of the 11 after 1977? That we should have joined Rocana later on, when he claimed he was going to "reform" his bogus 11 gurus in 1986? Or that we should promote the worship of a phantom living guru as Dusyanta is doing? Where does Srila Prabhupada says, henceforward, we should follow Dusyanta's idea of promoting the worship of a non-existing living guru, who is a phantasm, who apparently does not even exist?]

DD: Then I quoted a piece from Srila Prabhupada's Cc 1.58, regarding the manifestation of a liberated Shiksa guru in front of the external senses of the devotee sent by Krishna Himself. This was to illustrate the need and actual help we all get from the Supersoul, Krishna, through His mercy via a physically present Spiritual Master.

[PADA: Fine except, Dusyanta does not have any "manifested" guru because he never tells us who that is? Its a phantasm. He thinks Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and his living guru are all "manfiested," ok but where are they manifested?] 

DD: "Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul. He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a Spiritual Master is no one other than Krishna Himself." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.58) And then the whole purport by Srila Prabhupada:

"It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krishna sends an Instructing Spiritual Master to show him favour and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krishna, who is seated as the Spiritual Master within the heart of the living entity."

This quote illustrates how Lord Krishna and the Spiritual Master work in tandem to help the conditioned souls on their journey back to Godhead. The liberated Shiksa guru appears before the external senses of the devotee. Or to put it another way, the Spiritual Master is physically present before the devotee sent by Lord Krishna and is no one other than Krishna Himself.

[PADA: OK, this is what these people keep saying, their spiritual master is physically present, he is appearing, he is manifesting, he is right here, he is right before your eyes, except --- they never tell us who this guru is, how can we meet him, where are his programs and so on? So this is like saying, I have a million dollars, but -- I cannot really show you where it is. That means, its useless, it cannot be seen, it has no value. Worse, if they really have a living guru, and they refuse to tell us where he is, then this is like saying -- we can save the world, but we are not going to, because we refuse to give people access to our living guru. "Hiding their light under a bushel."]

DD: The Prabhupadanuga devotees accused me of being a Vapuh vadi because of this statement from Srila Prabhupada's Cc. And that I was going to redefine Srila Prabhupada's clear ritvik order for the future initiations into Iskcon. Then they made up a whole article that essentially character assassinated me and called me names. Exactly what they criticise ISKCON leadership of doing... exactly the same.

[PADA: Well yes, since you cannot even identify your guru, that means you are saying worship of the actual pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is bogus, because we need to worship -- no one and nothing, so yes, that is rather ridiculous. Its not very intelligent to say we need to worship no one and nothing, so yes, you will be ridiculed for that since its very foolish. You cannot worship Jesus, you need to worship the live body. 

OK, live body of whom? Well we do not know, you just need to worship the live body. Makes no sense? Worship of "the live body" is not found in any religion, since the body is considered as temporary illusion. That is what the GBC said to me in 1978, we need to worship Jayatirtha because he is the living body, that is total ignorance. The body is a lump of matter.]

DD: But I had written all this in a reply panel under an article they had written. The panel section is for invited readers to comment on good, bad or ugly and then that reply is published underneath the original article for all to see. Then more replies come in from others either supporting it or rebutting it. But they did not do this to my article, they just made up a whole new article that was not at all representative of what I wrote. They just took bits out of context and lambasted me. In fact, they did not represent me in truth and I wrote back again in a new panel linked with this article that lambasted me, saying how un-representative they had become and it was no good just character assassinating me and calling me names.

[PADA: Well then answer us here, who is your live bodied guru, where is your live bodied guru? Do you even have one? Or are you speaking about an alleged living person who does not even exist?]

DD: What they did not do was to publish the quotes from Srila Prabhupada's Cc Adi 1.58 and then prove that the Ritvik theory was still applicable, with substantial quotes from Srila Prabhupada. In fact they cannot do that, and now they have deteriorated so much that they have reverted to all the tactics they accused the GBC of years ago: character assassination, calling devotees names and pure mis-representation. What comes around goes around. And their example of how they deal with devotees and their relationship with devotees who don't agree with them exemplifies exactly how they have had no training with a Spiritual master, who has not guided them and chastised them. They are now out of control with themselves and a real danger to society.

[PADA: Well you have no guru's program, no guru's temples, no guru's books, no nothing, how is that helping anyone? You are telling people to not bother listening to you, since you are a rudderless person with no guru, that helps no one ever? You are at least admitting you are a lost soul, you have zero guru, fine, well then do not bother to tell people you are lost, that does not help them. We already know you are guru-less and lost, so first of all get yourself a guru and then you can help others.] 

DD: Over the years I have submitted articles to the Sampradaya Sun, under the editorship of Rocana Prabhu and the Sun staff that have been challenging and with my own opinions intact. And they have been published with rebuttals from them. And in this dynamic of debate, which is exactly what we are engaged in here, then we either have to bite the bullet and realise what a mistake we have made or we just go awol in Krishna Consciousness, we sink or swim. If we take a humble path and try to work out exactly where we have gone wrong then that's acceptable to all devotees, we all make mistakes, but if we become so arrogant and puffed up with what we think is the Truth and in the face of monumental disagreement we don't back down then we just sink into the material ocean of illusion.

[PADA: Correct, people who do not have a guru like you are lost and are in the material ocean, correct.]

DD: Since "The Final Order" has been deconstructed by just about everyone on the other side of ISKCON, and if we go through the comprehensive booklet there are so many mistakes that it could all be re-written, isn't it about time that we just leave the Ritviks in their own bubble to enjoy being in that self-imposed illusion? There is no point in "debating" with some of them because they don't know how to debate. They don't know how to "hear" anymore, they have gone beyond hearing. And they have got hugely fanatic persons on the Ritvik side that think they can now imitate Srila Prabhupada Himself and even go beyond Him. They have got to be the most unfortunate souls on the planet; they could not be any more small-minded and merciless even if they tried to be.

[PADA: The ritviks at least can identify their guru, you do not. You cannot argue anything until you get a source of knowledge, you have none. If Srila Prabhupada ordered any other program except to read and follow his program after he departed, such as worship of the living body, where is this stated? ys pd]

1 comment:

  1. Dusyanta's guru: A Night at the Tea Museum Part 1 of 2
    Siva Hari Mischief Tour


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