Yuddhisthira dasa writes PADA (ISKCON) ys pd

Tim,
I thought PADA guys used philosophy and arachrya pramana, but proves me wrong.

[PADA: First of all, as we pointed out earlier to you, according to the rules of Vedic debates, a person has to identify their guru, their line and so forth. Obviously, you are not even aware of the basics of "debate rules" -- so you are not even aware of the basics of Vedic debates. Never mind Vedic debates, in any debate, one has to state "what is your line of authority." You have failed to do so (again). Therefore we can safely conclude you are not part of any bona fide guru line or you would know these etiquettes. Nor are you even aware of the rules of mundane debates, you need to identify your lineage, authority and sources.

We are the only ones who have so far identified our lineage and acharya, as Srila Prabhupada, whereas you have (once again) ... failed to identify who your acharya is? You have simply "proved" either: You are too embarassed because your guru is implicated in various bogus guru's imbroglio; you do not have any acharya at all; you do not know who your actual acharya is; or you are not aware of the etiquette that you have to name your acharya and your lineage? Apparently, you are also unaware that even in the most basic of High School debate classes, they will NOT allow a comment unless the sources can be proven. Speculators like you are not allowed to talk, even in High School debate classes. You would be kicked out of High School debates, what to speak of Vedic debates.]


YD: Instead the usall ritvik style of playing around the words and imposing some kind of philosophy upon me that I have taken these instructions from some other camp.


[PADA: You are obfuscating and prevaricating, again. We asked you to identify your guru, your line, or as you say your "camp" so we can source your arguments, you cannot. Therefore you failed even the High School debate class standards.]


YD: Joke., Half of your letter is about telling I'm supporting homosex and people who support it while I challenge you to prove even me mentioning that even once.

[PADA: Since 1977, almost ALL of the opponents to our Srila Prabhupada worship idea (aka ritviks) have been deviants who supported various camps of homosexuals as gurus. We thus have to assume you are de facto in that deviant guru camp or classification, unless you can clarify otherwise, and you are not. And now we can assume our initial impression is probably a fact, that you are in that camp of deviants acharyas, since you are hiding yourself under a rock even more.]

YD: Prabhupada say fight fire with fire. Who has given PADA the right to put words into others mouth and try 'Character-Assassination'?

[PADA: We did not put any words in your mouth, we said you failed to identify your guru and your line, and we were and are totally correct, you have not done so. We said you are a bluffer who cannot identify his guru and his line, and you just proved to us that we are correct. Congratulations, you are basically saying we were correct all along to say you have no verifiable lineage source for your statments. Of course anyone can say they are a vaishnava, but since there are hundreds of vaishnava camps including sex club sahajiyas, you need to specify, and you are not, making us think you are part of the bogus camps.]

YD: Trying to end the sentence as a question but psycologically trying to prove that I said it, get a life! You really need to upgrade your debating skills which are not even worth a high school kid. Please.

[PADA: You have just now proved us one hundred percent correct? We said you cannot identify your line, and you cannot, have not, and continue not doing that, we were and are right.]

YD: While you speak lofty things on proving ones line, you are so hypocritical to not state your own. Does this mean PADA is above the rules, do they think its not required for them to walk the talk? Are they 'Superior'?

[PADA: A person who does not identify their guru and their line is called guru-less, and Srila Prabhupada says a person who fails to accept a guru is rudderless, that is what he says, and we are repeating. He is the superior, and he says you guru-less folks are rudderless and not authorized to speak on any topic.]

YD: NOT EVEN ONCE have you been able to prove that any statement I made is false or unauthorised.

[PADA: You have just now proven we are correct, you are not able to identify your guru or lineage. Srila Prabhupada says when a person fails to identify his guru, like yourself, that means he is a self made independent maverick guru. That means you are not identifying your guru because you are de facto declaring yourself one, that is what Srila Prabhupada has stated on this matter. Not identifying one's guru makes one his own guru. Why should we accept the statements of a person like you who -- according to Srila Prabhupada -- thinks they do not even have to cite their lineage of authority because they are a self made authority? This begs the question, "Do you have a guru or are you a self made guru?" And Srila Prabhupada already answers you, he says anyone who does not identify their guru is de facto making themself the guru. We do not accept you are the guru, and why should we?]


YD: I challenge you to prove me previous statements wrong with sastric prana, can you do that, or would you prefer to your usual style word spinning, confusing, deliberate character killing methods? Looking at your mail, looks like thats the only way you know.

[PADA: Sorry, we did not assassinate anyone's character, we asked you to identify your current guru and line, and you failed to do that and now you are spinning, confusing and attacking my character instead of answering the main question, i.e. anyone who does not identify their current guru is not allowed to talk in Vedic circles, period. And anyone who cannot identify their line of authority is not allowed into High School debates either. At least we do identify ourselves, therefore thousands of people are joining us ritviks, whereas no one is joining you because they do not even know what camp you represent, how can they join you? What kind of preacher are you, you have no guru, no devotees, no temples, no name of your organization, you have zero, how can people join a zero? Therefore for sure you are not a preacher.]

YD: Studying your mail, any devotee sufficiently knowing the Gaudiya siddhanta would a the first move junk it as a piece of imagination. You said "Where does Srila Prabhupada say that after he departs there will be five levels of gurus? Who is going to manage these five levels of gurus and which previous bona fide acharyas established this system of five levels of gurus? Who will determine who is on each of these five levels."

[PADA: And you have not answered, where does he mentions these five kinds of gurus for his institution? And since Sridhara maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Gaura govinda maharaja, the twin Puris and the GBC have been making homosexuals into gurus, that means they do not even know what a bona fide kanistha is. Why shouldn't we start off by making bona fide kanisthas before we start discussing the five levels of rasika gurus? This is premature, all this discussion of five types of gurus amongst people who cannot even keep their pants on in the presence of men, women and even -- children? Why are you folks discussing "gurus" with this level of lusty dogs and fools?]

YD: Was this a joke? The level means five different stages of realization. It doesn't need to be managed by you or me. Krishna and Guru are in direct control. Who is certify you that you has NOW reached the platform of Nishta or Ruci,etc? This naturall just as you don't need my certificate to show your stomach is full. Only proves your lack of understanding. Hope you can reply sastrically, if ever.

[PADA: Krishna manages the gurus, ok, but in the Sridhara, Narayana maharaja, Gaudiya Matha, GBC, et al. gurus are not managed by Krishna, they are instead appointed and voted in by councils, and worse, by councils of illicit sex acharyas. You have failed to tell us if you support any of them and their ecclessiastical voting for homosexuals and perverts acharyas process? Krishna cannot manage your gurus if you folks are making false ones, and are interfering and taking over His post as the manager of gurus, of course we are all here since we wanted to take His place, no wonder these Gaudiya Matha people started a system of managing their wayward messiahs. They are hi-jacking the post of God. ys pd]