Don't Let ISKCON or the Rtviks Get the Better of You
Prabhupada: "These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this T?rtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders."
(Room Conversation April 22, 197, Bombay)
GS: We see the situation manifesting today as being both similar and comparable to the situation that Srila Prabhupada was describing here, the situation of the Gaudiya Matha following his own Spiritual Master's disappearance. As they had done then, two separate groups emerged, neither of which were following the directions of their spiritual master and both contending with each other, as we have now, in the forms of ISKCON as it has become and in the Rtvik camp.
[PADA: Oh great, Rocana and George Smith are now saying our group of several thousand "Prabhupadanuga's" (aka ritvik's) and our idea -- "worship of Srila Prabhupada as the acharya" -- is a deviation and a severe offense. Worship of the pure devotee is part and parcel of the "severe aparadhis" offenders camp. Yet, if worship of the pure devotee is a severe offense, then whom are we supposed to worship instead? Ooops, is it Rocana or George Smith? Where in any scripture does it say we cannot worship the pure devotee or it is "a severe offense"?
Notice! (a) Worship of the GBC gurus is bogus. (b) Worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus. Even if we accept that, Rocana and GS never tell us (c) "who else we should worship," or what program is superior to OUR idea of worship of Srila Prabhupada? They just attack the worship of pure devotees and Srila Prabhupada as the worst of demoniac offenses, while giving no alternative.
Now they are saying that the bogus people from the Gaudiya Matha, actually the promoters of the worship of homosexual acharyas in the Gaudiya Matha, and our process of continuing the worship of Srila Prabhupada, are one and the same, "both are severe offenders" and similar deviations, so they are placing worship of Srila Prabhupada and the Gaudiya Matha's homosexual worship deviants on the same plane, "both are severe offenders." Worship of the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is the same deviation as worship of the homosexual gurus in the Gaudiya Matha? Yep, Rocana and GS are having a meltdown, or maybe not, maybe their real colors are now being exposed.]
GS: ISKCON has duplicated the behavior of the first group of the Gaudiya Matha that Srila Prabhupada is describing here, claiming false positions as guru for their own self-aggrandizement, while the Rtviks have adapted the behavior of the latter -- not that they have just left ISKCON, but they have departed from the siddhanta, from the philosophical presentation of the Sampradaya Acarya in line with the presentation of all the previous acaryas from Lord Brahma on down, in favor of their own concoction. By so doing, both of these groups have become severe offenders and have become useless besides.
[PADA: Amazing, GS and Rocana are now saying anyone who worships Srila Prabhupada is "concocting" and is really a deviant, an offender, and a demon -- and moreover is equal to the followers of the severe offenders from the homosexual acharyas program of the Gaudiya Matha. They are lumping all of us in together: The worship of Srila Prabhupada -- with the worship of child molesters and deviants, as one and the same devation. And what is the right path, well they forgot, they have no siddhanta of their own.
GS and Rocana are now directly equating the deviated Gaudiya Matha program of worship of homosexual pedophiles with the worship of Srila Prabhupada, saying both are the same "offense." Worship Jesus, or worship Satan, its all the same? This program is what Rocana was doing all along when he supported the GBC and their homosexual pedophile worship, he said this homosexual pooja is the good program and the worship of Srila Prabhupada is the bad and evil program. Except now GS and ROCANA are saying both the GBC's deviant acharya's idea -- and our idea of Prabhupada's continued worship, are -- the same idea, "both are deviation"?
Rocana also de facto says the worship of homosexuals and pedophiles acharyas program that evolved after 1977 is Srila Prabhupada's fault, because according to Rocana Srila Prabhupada was "intentionally vague" about what he wanted post-1977? The exact opposite is true, Srila Prabhupada was crystal clear: He disapproved of bogus guru programs period, and appointed gurus, and zonal gurus, and homosexual gurus and so on. He said continue "as it is" and DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING (keep the ritvik system). There are thousands and thousands of quotes about what he wanted, and what he said was the level of guru etc, we cannot repeat all of this material herein but a number of these quotes are found on our site http://harekrsna.org ...
How did the the ritviks get lumped into Rocana's worship of homosexual acharya program? We were the people who all along opposed Rocana and his homosexual acharyas program? So first of all, how can Rocana say the worship of Srila Prabhupada is the same as the worship of homosexual child molesters (de facto the Gaudiya Matha's idea) and next, how can he say the ritviks are part of that bogus program of worship of Rocana's homosexual acharyas program, since we opposed it all along?
Rocana is directly comparing worship of Srila Prabhupada to the worship of the homosexuals and debauchees of the Gaudiya Matha. Krishna says you have to worship Me via my pure devotee, and Rocana is saying anyone who follows Krishna is a demon and severe offender. Of course Rocana never tells us who we should follow, he just says Krishna's idea is demoniac and offensive.]
GS: Both ISKCON and the Rtviks stress the importance of accepting initiation to one's spiritual life in such a way as to make those of us who are uninitiated think that we must take the shelter of one or another side, that we must accept either some diksa guru that ISKCON offers us or initiation through the Rtvik process in order for our spiritual lives even to begin, and certainly in order to gain entrance and acceptance into the tradition and to receive Srila Prabhupada's and Lord Krsna's mercy, favor and protection, and to advance.
[PADA: At least the ritvik's program is moving forward, making thousands of devotees of Srila Prabhupada worldwide, because our program follows the idea that we need to give people shelter of the pure devotee (acharya-upasanam). So, at least we have a program -- and our program works in terms of spreading the preaching. Whereas George Smith, Rocana, Kailasha chandra, Bhakta dasa et al., they are not making any devotees of anyone -- on the one hand, while they are simply criticizing anyone who wants to worship Srila Prabhupada as a demoniac deviation on the other hand.
Just look at the results of their program, someone gets inspired to worship Krishna via His pure devotee and Rocana says, give away your books and your deity, quit sewing outfits for Krishna, stop chanting, give it all up, you cannot worship a posthumous dead corpse, because worship of dead Krishna and His dead gurus is a waste of time, it is just as demoniac and offensive as the bogus people from the Gaudiya Matha, so go back and eat hamburgers and do not be an offender who worships Krishna. And Rocana's idea is working to some extent, he has discouraged thousands of people from worship of Krishna and has sent them back to eating hamburgers, of course in our previous article we showed how Rocana compares Srila Prabhupada to the meat eating bogus mayavadi gurus.
So all Rocana and GS are really doing is -- following the Gaudiya Matha folks who criticized Srila Prabhupada's program (like having ritvik initiations). The Gaudiya Matha criticized Srila Prabhupada's ritvik system in the 1970s, and their top disciple Rocana is still at it. Of course Srila Prabhupada says those who criticize him are the severe offenders.]
GS: Such presentations make us extremely uncomfortable, creating such an existential pressure that in order to relieve it, we are forced to decide between the one or the other, to accept initiation from ether one or the other of these two groups and to take their side.
[PADA: The ritviks are merely quoting Srila Prabhupada, and he says, either you worship a pure devotee (the ritvik idea) or you descend into naraka loka (hell). Rocana and his cry baby pal George Smith find that Srila Prabhupada's statements are too direct and not vague, at the same time, they criticize that the pure devotees are too vague? No, Srila Prabhupada is not vague, the pure devotees are saying people who opine that worship of a pure devotee is a severe offense, like Rocana and GS, they are gliding to hell. Period.]
GS: The question though, that we must ask ourselves foremost is, are either of these two groups right in their single assertion that we must accept formal initiation in order to spiritually advance, or whether to do so is both non-essential and also ill advised, for by doing so, no matter which of the two we choose we have actually positioned ourselves upon the wrong side?
[PADA: No, that is not what the ritviks are saying. The ritviks have thousands of members worldwide and maybe only twenty five percent are formally ritvik initiated. We are not forcing anyone to take a formal initiation from us, this is a complete lie. What we are saying is what Srila Prabhupada said, that reading his books -- books of the pure devotee -- is initiation, the ceremony is not required. We never said the ceremony was required. We also said that the ceremony itself is not enough, just look at all the people who blooped after being initiated even by Srila Prabhupada. We said that understanding his siddhanta is real initiation, and that will come from his books and teachings. Rocana and GS are making up straw man arguments here. I hereby offer George Smith a $1,000 reward if he can show any letter from me saying people need to get the formal ceremony.]
GS: Luckily we are not dependent upon ourselves for the answer to this question, Srila Prabhupada gives us all we need with the use of our intelligence to discover it from his purport to Verse 5 of the Nectar of Instruction, last paragraph of the purport: "In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism.
One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master."
[PADA: And as soon as we accept an uttama as our guru GS says this is bogus?]
[PADA: The ritviks are following this perfectly, they are giving people a connection to a pure devotee, who is Rocana and GS giving us a link to, they never say.]
GS: One of the things that we learned in logic was how to discern a truth from other truths that were provided by drawing what is referred to as being a valid inference. Inference is the act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true. The conclusion drawn is also called an inference.
[PADA: Right, there you have it, word jugglery ki jaya, GS cannot name the person we need to worship, as we can infer easily.]
The valid inference that can be drawn from Srila Prabhupada's instruction is that those who are on the lower to middle level of devotional service, or those who are kanistha and madhyama level devotees and who go against his advice that they should not accept disciples until they are pure devotees, while they may accept disciples must be careful not to accept disciples who are not upon the exact same level of spiritual advancement as they themselves are.
Thus a kanistha level devotee should only give diksa to others who are also upon the same kanistha platform, as they are. Likewise a madhyama level devotee should be careful only to give diksa to those who are on the madhyama level of spiritual advancement.
Do you see it? It is this. One can attain to at least the madhyama stage of devotional service without undergoing any formal initiation process, otherwise there would not be any madhyama level uninitiated devotees out there for the madhyama level devotees who are already initiated to initiate.
[PADA: No, EVERYONE STILL needs to get initiated into the divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha) of the pure devotee, di means divyam jnanam, ok you do not need formal initiation, maybe not, but you do need to be getting genuine divyam jnanam from an uttama devotee, and that is being done by HIS books.]
In his article, "The Bangalore Drama, Rocana dasa presents the following paragraph, which provided me with the inspiration for this article: "We are left to wonder why it is that for so many years prior, Madhu Pandit das had been doing what I have suggested in my presentation – essentially promoting a Siksa environment, giving Srila Prabhupada full recognition as being a Sampradaya Acarya, and encouraging devotees to simply follow him, without institutionalizing a program that puts undue emphasis on diksa, while at the same time accepting the sastric basis for diksa." All glories to Srila Prabhupada, Hare Krsna Ys George Smith
[PADA: Well thanks for nothing George, you are saying that the ritviks are the same as the bogus gurus of the Gaudiya Matha, and you are still not telling us what ELSE then is the source of divyam jnanam which destroys sins in your idea? You have no source of diksha at all, we do, it is the books of Srila Prabhupada. The ceremonials are ONLY good if they are done properly, but they are not mandatory. Srila Prabhupada said he was going to have varnasrama where most people would be workers, and only a few would be brahmanas, so he was back pedalling on the idea that everyone would get brahmana initiations anyways. The main thing I wanted to say about this writing is that both Rocana and George Smith are not offering a shred of alternative to what the ritviks are doing, i.e. making thousands of devotees of Prabhupada, and anyone who opposes making devotees of Prabhupada is de facto helping the evil molester messiahs program. To say that homosexual worship is "both the same" as worship of the pure devotee is what is the severe offense here. ys pd]
Orangejews... :(
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