FROM Rocana's Sampradaya Sun news ...
All Pure Vaishnavas are Sri Krishna's RitviksBY: R.A. SADHUDASA ANUDASA
Jul 21, 2011 — SRIDHAM MAYAPUR, WEST BENGAL (SUN) — Sri Krishna is the original guru and everybody else is His representative. The IMPERSONAL --and even ATHEISTIC-- conception of the above statement is that one can claim to be exactly like Sri Krishna, and have one's own PERSONAL representatives or ritviks AFTER ONE'S PHYSICAL DEPARTURE FROM THE PLANET. Surely, Srila Prabhupada NEVER intended such thing. Sri Yogananda Paramahamsa might have been a great saint in the IMPERSONAL realization, and that's how he might have "empowered" Sri Vivekananda as his ritvik after his "PERSONAL" demise.
[PADA: OK, lets say this is correct: no one is supposed to act as a preacher or "representative" of Srila Prabhupada after his departure. Then, why are RA Sadudasa (RAS) and Rocana preaching at all? Notice, RAS and Rocana are saying "no one can preach as a representative," yet they preach every day that they are "representing" Srila Prabhupada, which is what the ritviks are ALREADY saying and doing? RAS and ROCANA are arguing with their own shadow?
What they are REALLY saying is, they are the ONLY authorized representatives, everyone else is not. And the reason they are the only authorized people is because, they have not made any followers of their program in 35 years, their program is dead on arrival? No one has ever heard of RAS and his program, ever.
Notice now that RAS and ROCANA are insulting and attacking Srila Prabhupada for creating a managerial system (GBC) after he departs as being MAYAVADI and worse what RAS and ROCANA are really saying is -- that Srila Prabhupada is a direct disciple of VIVEKANANDA, who ate beef steaks! Srila Prabhupada wanted people to read his books, and worship him after he departed, therefore he is a disciple of Vivekananada? Rocana has really reached the bottom of the barrel now by directly herein citing his bogus authors who say that Srila Prabhupada is bogus because he is following the system made by a beef eater mayavadi.
RAS and ROCANA are trying to say that Srila Prabhupada is on the same level as the BEEF EATING bogus mayavadi gurus, simply because he ordered that his society needed to be managed, and his worship continued, AFTER his departure! Of course, we knew all along this was coming eventually from ROCANA. RAS and Rocana types have been for many years aiding and abetting those who compared Srila Prabhupada to Rocana's bogus "acharyas" program of HOMOSEXUALS and PEDOPHILES and criminal deviants.
Therefore, we knew it was merely a question of time before ROCANA would start promoting that Srila Prabhupada's orders -- to continue to manage his society, read his books, and accept him as a guru is now -- equal to mayavadas who are EATING BEEF! In short, Rocana would rather have people eating beef than worshipping Srila Prabhupada, because worship of the pure devotee is the worst deviation, which is why Rocana's pal Kailash says ritviks are poison, but they almost never criticize beef eating?
There you have it, worship of Srila Prabhupada is ON THE SAME LEVEL AS mayavadas who are EATING BEEF! Rocana has finally revealled his absolute HATRED of Srila Prabhupada, he cites that worship of the pure devotee is equal to eating beef, but at the same time we are glad ROCANA has finally exposed his program's hatred of Srila Prabhupada. This is amazing, anyone who wants to worship a pure devotee is commiting the same sin as beef eating, which means, Rocana is trying to say all of the wonderful Bangalore devotees are following a de facto beef eating process because of their evil sin of -- worship of the pure devotee! Yet it is ROCANA who the the follower of Vivekananda because Rocana is the mayavadi who never mentions the name of his guru. Rocana is ALSO a disciple of Vivekananda because Rocana's guru system also has debauched gurus. Rocana is a disciple of Vivekananda and yet he claims we are!
Yes, Rocana is directly saying herein that the worship of Krishna via His pure devotee is the same as beef eating. He has lost the one teeny marble floating around his brain.]
RAS: The shastras explain that a person who has accepted Krishna as the Supreme Identity of the Personal Godhead can initiate disciples. In this sense, all those who have accepted Sri Krishna as the Original Source of Godhead, are His DIRECT representatives or ritvik-gurus.
[PADA: OK, so now RAS and Rocana are saying we are all ritviks anyway, even the acaryas are ritviks, after saying -- ritviks are bogus? Has no one noticed that they are arguing with their own shadow? We are all ritviks, of course ritviks are like eating beef? The acharyas are all ritviks, so they are like Vivekananda?]
RAS: The ultimate trouble of making any pure Vaishnava the SOLE ritvik, or EXCLUSIVE representative of Sri Krishna, is that attempts to the very essence of PERSONALISM.
[PADA: OK notice that RAS and Rocana never mention the "personal" name of their personal guru? They say that worship of Srila Prabhupada equals following a BEEF EATING program, but on the other hand, they never tell us how to get free of what they call is the beef eating program of worship of Srila Prabhupada? They claim to be "personalists," while never giving ANY name of ANY "person" we need to worship? They are personalists, minus, the person in question! Of course, if someone does worship a person, that is equal to eating beef steaks?
They say we need to accept their personal guru, fine except -- they have not done so themselves? They say we need to accept only the current personal guru that they accept, then they forget to tell us -- who that person is? In any case Sri Krishna is the person who makes pure Vaishnavas appear by their self effulgence, and who is attempting to eclipse that? It is RAS and ROCANA, who both say we need to accept their personal (ok non-existing phantasm) guru. We cannot worship Srila Prabhupada because that is like eating beef, but what are we then to do to save ourselves? Nothing. No explanation of what is the alternate.]
RAS: The sentimentally immature attitude of empowering ONLY one personality as the exclusive representative of Sri Krishna leads to DEIFICATION (in the sense as being GOD Himself), which translates as atheism disguised as a devotional attitude --yes, devotional perhaps, nonetheless neophyte and impersonal.
[PADA: No one ever said there was only one personality in the parampara? What we have said is: that the Gaudiya Matha, GBC and Rocana crew -- and evidently RAS -- have promoted homosexuals and child molesters as their "living gurus," and they have thus made a mistake. They do not know what a pure person is. And, as soon as we said we do not want to worship their homosexual and pedophile guru alternative to worship Srila Prabhupada, they then said our worship of the pure devotee is just like beef eating, and in that way they cemented in the worship of their child molesters acharya's "alternative." They have not produced any name of any pure devotees to date, hence they cannot name their pure devotee, they have none, this is mayavada.]
RAS: When Vaishnava students pray: "vande ham sri guru, sri yuta-pada-kamalam, sri gurum-vaishnavas ca... " it implies to realize that we are paying homage to our respective EXCLUSIVE initiator spiritual master (diksha-guru) --the shastras condemn having many duly professing Vaishnava diksha-gurus, since it is also a sign of IMPERSONALISM to do so--, and unto our MANY instructing spiritual masters or shiksha-gurus, as well as to ALL the Vaishnavas of the FOUR sampradayas, or PERSONALIST schools of thought.
[PADA: But ROCANA and RAS have not named their guru, so they have no personal worship of their guru, they never tell us who their guru is?]
RAS: It is an IMPERSONAL desire to have more than ONE EXCLUSIVE diksha-guru, as it is ILLOGICAL to claim that one has more than ONE bio-logical father. No doubt, a normal human being has other affectionate family members that may affect the same feelings as one's father... however the bio-LOGICAL FATHER is ONLY one. Sarvabhavana Bhattacharya --as the leading Mayavadi of his time--, wanted to re-initiate Mahaprabhu, and that is a sign of impersonal consideration.
[PADA: Fine, so Sridhara maharaja and Narayana maharaja were bogus to tell the GBC to re-initiate people, and they were bogus to have re-initiated Srila Prabhupada's disciples. So why is Rocana promoting the Gaudiya Matha folks after saying they are bogus to create this bogus re-initiation process?]
RAS: Vaishnavas NEVER re-initiate another initiated student of a practitioner Vaishnava, even if such guru is a neophyte. Such attitude or practice is ONLY performed under the IMPERSONAL connotation of ones life. If it is practiced amongst aspiring Vaishnavas It only creates dissension, and offenses towards Vaishnavas.
The PERSONAL-ritvik conception per excellence declares that Sri Krishna is the CONSTITUTIONAL Eternal Father and Original Guru of absolutely everybody. On the other hand, the IMPERSONAL-ritvik conception declares that Srila Prabhupada is the INSTITUTIONAL Eternal Father and Original Guru of absolutely everybody willing to partake of such cult.
[PADA: OK, the Vedas say we need to worship a pure devotee, and we are. RAS and Rocana are worshipping no one and nobody and they never even offer one word of glorification of their alleged current guru? Therefore neither RAS or ROCANA has any guru or "institution" at all. No one has ever even heard of this RAS fellow at all, he has no guru, no institution, no worship of guru, no preaching, no nothing at all, ok and neither does Rocana, this is ALL mayavadi.]
RAS: The following statements from Srila Prabhupada are CONCLUSIVE in regard to the acceptance of a personal diksha-guru: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.22.7: "You are fit for such and such work in Krishna consciousness. You can act in this way… … There are different departments of activity in Krishna consciousness, and a spiritual master, knowing the particular ability of a particular man, trains him in such a way that by his tendency to act he becomes perfect."
[PADA: Except that RAS and Rocana have no guru at all? At least we have some guru and some system for worship of a bona fide pure devotee, whereas RAS and ROCANA have no pure devotee to follow, no worship, no temples, no books, no preachers, no nothing.]
RAS: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.25.25: "Generally, people are convinced of the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth. Because they do not associate with devotees, they cannot understand that the Absolute Truth can be a person and have personal activities. This is a very difficult subject matter, and unless one has personal understanding of the Absolute Truth, there is no meaning to devotion. Service or devotion cannot be offered to anything impersonal. Service must be offered to a person."
[PADA: And neither RAS nor Rocana names any person we need to serve?]
RAS: I do hold a personal appreciation and care for the spiritual welfare of ALL those who have established themselves under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada, whether as his diksha or shiksha students.
[PADA: Except that they say worship of Srila Prabhupada is the same as eating beef and worshipping mayavadis? Where is the respect, lets face it, RAS has no respect for Srila Prabhupada or his worshippers.]
RAS: However, I see a tinge of IMPERSONALISM in the claim that one is being directly connected with Srila Prabhupada through a process that is NOT practiced within any of the four Vaishnava schools, as to consider oneself as DIRECTLY initiated through a diksha ceremony --which represent one's submission to a PERSON that can instruct and guide us by DIRECT PERSONAL example, as instructed above by Srila Prabhupada.
[PADA: Yet RAS and Rocana have no "person" to give these instructions? And Srila Prabhupada says anyone who does not name their guru, like RAS and ROCANA, is a mayavadi. Just see what these idiots are saying, we need to worship a person, but there is no person.]
RAS: Nonetheless, one can without any doubt be DIRECTLY initiated into Vaishnavism through Srila Prabhupada's eternal instructions.
[PADA: OK so now RAS and ROCANA are saying the ritviks are correct, anyone can, without any doubt, be "initiated" (diksha) into Vaishnavism by SRILA PRABHUPADA. That is what we are saying? Now they are saying the ritviks are correct, Srila Prabhupada is eternal. Yet they are also saying Srila Prabhupada is gone, dead, departed, post mortem, posthumous, not physically present, finished, post samadhi? This is hypocrisy, which of course is why Jesus says, oh ye hypocrites, sons of vipers.]
RAS: To that extent one has to be so advanced into PERSONALISM that one would accept without any hindrance that Srila Prabhupada's manifestation in the FORM of his instructions (shiksha) came from other PERSONS.
[PADA: OK all of us "rank and file" devotees, the "other persons," are going to present the instructions, the teachings, and all of us "other persons" are SHIKSHA devotees aka ritviks, aka preachers, aka priests and let me repeat -- aka ritviks. OK, now RAS and ROCANA are saying the ritvik idea is bona fide and correct. What!]
RAS: Such PERSONS were the ones that published the books where one read about Srila Prabhupada, or the persons that first spoke about him, or gave us his books.
[PADA: That is the system Srila Prabhupada designed, the book distributors gave people his books, and then the public (who received his books) were then able to connect to Srila Prabhupada directly through his representatives, the book distributors and in sum us representatives. So yes, the preachers are the representatives, they are giving shiksha and not diksha, the books are giving the divyam jnanam, the diksha. Once again RAS and ROCANA are now sneaking in our ritvik idea through the back door. Anyway this is good. Now Rocana is admitting the system given by Srila Prabhupada, giving people his books, is mainly shiksha, i.e. the rank and file are going to preach on behalf of Srila Prabhupada and not be his "successors."
Nor did Srila Prabhupada ever say any of his followers were qualified to act as his successors. NOTICE that RAS and ROCANA never tell us where Srila Prabhupada said the system of SHIKSHA was going to change after he departs?]
RAS: Therefore if Srila Prabhupada "came" to all in an INDIRECT way, why one would only accept his DIRECT PERSONAL initiation? This is one of the signs of IMPERSONALISM.
[PADA: What! We get the book of Srila Prabhupada from his representatives, we accept Srila Prabhupada as our guru as a result of getting his books, and this is impersonalism? Now RAS and ROCANA are saying the books of Srila Prabhupada are impersonalism? So they are once again attacking the books of Srila Prabhupada as mundane, and attacking Srila Prabhupada's whole system of preaching as impersonalism. The system Srila Prabhupada established to make devotees by book distribution -- is impersonalism, no wonder RAS and ROCANA cannot make even one disciple of their attack dog against Krishna program.]
RAS: Indeed, VERY rare are those that joined Srila Prabhupada's mission without ANY PERSONAL inference from anyone else, besides Srila Prabhupada HIMSELF.
[PADA: No, many of the devotees in the 1970s either had no association or rarely had association of Srila Prabhupada, they got most of their training from the temple presidents aka representatives. Many devotees were simply initiated by sending a letter from the temple, they often never met Srila Prabhupada in person. Of course the homosexual and child molester guru promoters of the 1936 Gaudiya Matha attacked this system, and now Rocana has joined these pedophile acharya loving pasandis.]
RAS: The CONCLUSION is that Vaishnavas have to accept a guru that can train them PERSONALLY in every aspect.
[PADA: OK, you just contradicted where you said people could get books from the representatives and follow Srila Prabhupada in this way. Now you are saying this is not bona fide? You contradicted yourself. Again.]
RAS: This is how we understand that all pure Vaishnavas are Sri Krishna's ritviks.
[PADA: What pure devotees? They never tell us who they are, so this is impersonalism. And now you are mixing ritviks (priests) and acharyas. Sorry the ritvik is a priest, a shiksha guru / representative of the acharya, but the acharya is the pure devotee. They are mixing up the role of the priest and the acharya, which is how all this mess of homosexual pedophile acharyas was launched at the start by Rocana and RAS types in 1977, they mixed the role of the priest with the acharya, and that is how Rocana launched the zonal / homosexual and peodphile acharyas program in the first place, and he is still confusing these issues.]
RAS: The IMPERSONAL-ritvik principle claims that one can be directly initiated into any society of pure Vaishnavas without accepting a particular PERSON as a Vaishnava diksha-initiating-guru but Srila Prabhupada himself.
[PADA: Who else are we to accept? They have no "other person" to have us worship. Now we are going to worship -- no one?]
RAS: If Sri Gauranga --in His function as the Perfect Devotee-- HIMSELF has His DIRECT PERSONAL diksha and shiksha-gurus, why would someone NOT follow His advice?
[PADA: Rocana and RAS types have only promoted the homosexual and pedophile guru program so far, he has never told us what other system he is promoting?]
RAS: In Bhagavad-gita it is instructed to approach a bona fide PERSONAL guru, unto whom one can ask relevant questions, receive his pertinent spiritual direct answers and advice according to one's particular personality, and finally surrender to.
[PADA: So you are saying that we need to accept Rocana's homosexual and pedophile guru program because he never tells us there is another system?]
RAS: I know two exemplary Vaishnavas that are Srila Prabhupada's shiksha-disciples since more than 23 years, and they have not yet accepted formal initiation from anyone in the Vaishnava world. To me, both of them have demonstrated to be more advanced than "gurus" that were their con-temporaries and have fallen down to the extreme of even rejecting Vaishnavism all together. So, this is a proof that SHIKSHA is more ESSENTIAL than diksha.
[PADA: Great! So RAS is saying that the shiksha devotees of Srila Prabhupada (aka the ritviks) are vastly superior even to their alleged diksha gurus? This is quite correct, Rocana's diksha gurus are often found to be engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, some of his great acharyas have actually fallen to meat eating. So Rocana is the person who has had us (and ISKCON's children) worshipping pedophilia, meat eating and so many other deviations -- in the name of his "diksha gurus." Why does he not know that children were never supposed to worship Rocana's pedophile messiahs in the first place, he made a mistake and to cover his mistake he is now comparing Srila Prabhupada to eating beef gurus, so he is blaming Srila Prabhupada for HIS mistakes.]
RAS: We may run the risk to get a wrong perception after chanting the Gurvashtakam prayers, were it is instructed to worship the spiritual master as God Himself, and lose proper power of discrimination if NOT philosophically cautious.
[PADA: Oh great, after ROCANA and RAS types have been promoting deviants and pedophiles as acharyas, we have to be careful, we might think their illicit sex with men, women and children gurus are "God"?]
RAS: However, we should be intelligent enough to scrutinize the saints we associate with through the agency of the shastras. Otherwise, that will be the end of the formula, guru-sadhu-shastra ... BLIND FAITH is the worse thing that could happen to any human being. I eternally remain your servant, in the seva to Srila Prabhupada and the pure Vaishnavas, Sadhudasa Anudasa
[PADA: Right, after saying that Srila Prabhupada is disciple of beef steak eating mayavada gurus, then he says, he is the servant of Srila Prabhupada. After slapping a huge chunk of beef into the parampara, after comparing the parampara to beef steaks mayavadis, they are the servants of the parampara?] TOLD YA! ys pd