Debate about Gaura Govinda maharaja continues (ISKCON) 07/01/11

PADA: @Tamoharadasa You have so far not shown even one statement that I made is incorrect? Show me specifically what statement I made that is false? You are a liar, GGM said that he was "ordered" to cooperate, tolerate and work with the GBC's homosexual child molester acharyas program, and he lied, there is no order, you have not shown any such order, I will give you $108,000 if you can show any such order, you cannot, you are also a liar, there is no such order, it does not exist, its all lies! ys pd

Guru108ish: Prabhupada DID say to cooperate tolerate and work with each other so WHY are you criticizing your own guru? No Prabhupada did not say worship gays he said make hippies into happies, and that is what he is talking about. GG did'nt say you weren't even alive! He said your idea of worshipping a previous acharya for the next ten thousand years is non vedic. It is a Christian idea. When did GG Go Around Saying I Am Always Criticizing The Guru? This is bogus! You are bogus.
guru108ish 

PADA: @guru108ish Where does Srila Prabhupada say what GGM says, that we need to "cooperate, tolerate and work with" the GBC and their homosexual pedophiles posing as acharyas regime which is molesting children left, right and center? I will give you $108,000 dollars reward if you can show us where Prabhupada said that? GGM said that Srila Prabhupada "ordered" him to collaborate with the worship of his child molester Vishnupadas, where is that "order"? Sorry, GGM lied, there is no such "order." Show me that order and I will give you $108,000. Or else you are also a liar. ys pd
pada1008

Guru108ish: Forget Gour govinda. Prabhupada's early disciples included Ginsberg, one of his earliest famous gay disciples who never followed the regs? Also Hayagriva, Bhaktipada and Umapati all shared an apartment, all were gay and on drugs,and Prabhupada initiated the devotees first then told them about the four regs AFTER THE FIRST INITIATION CEREMONY WAS OVER! Why blame GGS when Prabhupada was first in trying to give his mercy to the fallen? They both are equally guilty, Srila Prabhupada and Gour Govinda guru108ish

PADA: @guru108ish Prabhupada never said any of these people were Vishnupada acharyas? Yes, his disciples were falling, so that means he was correct when he said they are not fit for guru. Where did he say any of these people are fit for guru? GGM lied, he said that he was ordered to collaborate with making homosexual child molesters into acharyas, he is a FAT liar, there is no such order. We were told the opposite, do not work with bogus gurus, that is the factual order, do not work with them. ys pd
pada1008

Guru108ish: @pada1008 and ggm is a bona fide acharya so go sc**w yourself!
guru108ish

PADA: @guru108ish GGM's gurus are sc**ing everybody in the house, the men, women even the children. This is what you are calling bona fide acharyas, illicit sex with the whole household? As for your reference to Christians, they fall down all the time, even their priests, but they are not such fools that they "collaborate" with people saying acharyas like Jesus are falling down, they know the acharyas are not falling, they know GGM is bogus for promoting sex with childen messiahs. ys pd
pada1008

Tamohara: @guru108ish Well said. This Puranjana seems to think he can just make up anything and get away with it. Tamoharadasa

Guru108ish: Prabhupada gave YOU initiation didn't he? Why criticize Prabhupada for giving initiation to a devotee who would fall down? He did the best he could with the disciples he had. He had to use his disciples to set the examples for sannyasa, first initiates, brahmins, gurus, etc. Don't criticize Prabhupada or Gour Govinda because they TRIED! Sc**w you! guru108ish

PADA: @guru108ish Prabhupada initiated people, therefore, GGM and his illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs are bona fide? What? We had 4,000 children in ISKCON, maybe 2,000 were molested because GGM promoted the worship of pedophiles as messiahs, why is this bona fide? ISKCON since 1977 has said that acharyas are debauchees and GGM was their big: shastric scholar / position paper writer / assistant / cheer leader / backer / promoter / defender / helper and Tamal bucket boy. Sorry, acharyas are not debauchees. pada1008

PADA: Tamohara is attacking Prabhupada by saying there was mass homosexual rapes going on under his watch, there was not, this is how GGM folks are attacking Prabhupada to cover their own filthy hands full of homosexual molesting acharya's programs. Critics of Jesus also say he wanted ie "cooperated, tolerated and worked with" the inquisition, this is how GGM folks are attacking the actual acharyas. GGM caused the mass molesting program to flourish, and now he blames Prabhupada? Told ya! ys pd  pada1008

Tamohara: @pada1008 Youre a blasphemous lying ---hole, and when i see you, i will let you know fully. You dare to say I am attacking Prabhupada !! You piece of crap !! Your Mayavadi theory that pure devotees are all- cognizant is just another of your lies and speculations. You have revealed yourself as a sorry liar and abuser of devotees and a rumor inventor and spreader. A curse on your head.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa You have so far not shown even one statement that I made is incorrect? Show me specifically what statement I made that is false? You are a liar, GGM said that he was "ordered" to cooperate, tolerate and work with the GBC's homosexual child molester acharyas program, and there is plenty of proof that he lied, there is no "order," you have not shown any such "order," I will give you $108,000 if you can show any such order, you cannot, you are also a liar, there is no such order, it does not exist, its all lies! ys pd

Tamohara: We are repeating ourselves at this point. Krsna grant that your eyes wil be opened and your poison will not kill the ritivks. Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa The ritviks are growing like anything. I told GGM that I was preaching about Prabhupada and he said I am bogus because "you need a living person." GGM is such fool, he thought I was ALREADY dead, he said in essence, you are not living, you have no living person in your preaching program. What! He greets his own Godbrother YOU ARE DEAD, you have no living persons! Is this the way to greet your brother, I am alive, you are dead? No, he is dead and we ritviks are alive and growing. ys pd

Tamohara dasa: By attacking every pure devotees who is not Srila Prabhupada, like a fanatic, you are helping the GBCs. Srila Prabhupada wanted the pure devotees to arise and preach. Your odd ritivk thing is that no pure devotee will come and preach outside the institution ? Thats baloney. Let them leave SP's temples to do it, though, and let SP's disciples continue to preach from the temples he created for us, and let the GBC cult usurpers begone. Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa First of all, there are no examples of any pure devotees creating a policy of "cooperating, tolerating and working with" the worship of deviants as acharyas. I never said there would be no pure devotees, I said GGM acted as a collaborator for the worship of child molesters as acharyas, and he did. As for preaching, we are doing that and we have converted thousands of people to worship Prabhupada and quit the GGM molester messiahs program. Saving people from GGM is baloney? hah pada1008

Tamohara: A pure devotee cannot be kept in ignorance by Krsna? Then why did so many homosexual rapes occurr while Srila Prabhupada was on the planet? Tamoharadasa

PADA: Tamoharadasa I was in Europe in the 1970s and there was one molester caught in France, and he was put into jail. I did not know of other incidents in Europe, there were none in England that I know of. Yasodananda was in charge of the Vrndavana gurukula and there were no incidents there, and had there been, he and Guru Kripa would have dealt a sever blow to that molester. Why are you saying there was a lot of incidents before 1977? Sounds like GGM was trying to re-write history to cover himself. ys pd

Tamohara: pada1008 What?? GGM rewriting history ? What are in the world are you talking about? Are you a fool ? You think I get my info from GGS ? I have read his books, otherwise I am your senior Godbrother, disciple of Srila Prabhupadasince 1972, or am i misunderstanding your question? Just see how quickly you rush in to make up any story to blaspheme GGS . Thats it, then. You are envious, and I am not wasting time here anymore. Tamoharadasa

PADA: Tamoharadasa You and other GGM folks have been saying there was mass homosexual molesting during the time Prabhupada was here, clearly GGM folks lie about this as well as other lies, ie Prabhupada wanted us to cooperate, tolerate and work with GGM's molester messiahs, GGM and / or his followers are trying to say Prabhupada cooperated, tolerated and worked with child molesting, so you are attacking Prabhupada again, to make GGM look good. Sorry, GGM "worked with" molesting, not Prabhupada. ys pada1008

Tamohara: Wrong. Bottom line isthat Srila Gour Govinda Maharajaha Thakura is a nitya-siddha pure devotee, and you are likely NOT. Given these facts, we are better to listen to him than to you.
Tamoharadasa

PADA @Tamoharadasa ... GGM was in so much illiusion and so are his followers, his followers told me they too were going to "cooperate, tolerate and work with" the pedophile messiahs program, because GGM gave them such bad teachings they thought their "service" was to collaborate with the worship of molesters, GGM gave them the wrong teachings, no acharya has ever taught that you must collaborate with the worship of child abusers posing as acharyas. This is worse than baloney, its an attack on children. ys pd pada1008

Tamohara: until 2001 ish also severely criticized ritvik etc as the knowledge of the murders has been hidden. So i am also a rascal dog for acting in ignorance many years ago? You will criticize me for my ignorance back then? fine. So you were also ignorant at some point, i will produce many videos exposing your ignorance many years ago, and tell the lies until people believe them.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa Anyone like GGM who thinks they have the capacity to "reform the acharyas" is a fool, including GGM a key player in the guru reform. They excommunicated Sulochana, so we were targets for murder. Sulochana was born on July 4th, his appearance is coming on monday. The people GGM helped get murdered are not here either. Yes, GGM was in ignorance, he is not an acharya. I was kicked out of ISKCON in 1979, good luck "proving" I was going along with them. Bottom line, GGM was helping them. ys pd pada1008

T: Now you are revealing your mentality. Best to just shut up. Now you will attack everyone. You are perfect, but these great preachers are one iota short of your double standards, so you criticize them like they are dogs. Who is the dog -like mentality here? I accept the opinion of millions of Orissans and hundreds of pure saints over your two seconds brief and no doubt hostile and aggressive encounter with him, and now knows everything. Bhagavata left Iskcon many years ago, also RG and i.
Tamoharadasa

T: You were a devotee at that time, so you rook part, so you are going to the lowesty regions. Hypocrite , double standards. You please come up to 1/1000 of the glories of Gour Govinda Swami, you personally talk to Krsna and perform miracles and be born in a pure family of kirtinayias and recite Gita at age 5, then you can talk. Tamoharadasa

Nonsese defeated, but you stick to your tall tales like your life depends upon it. This is strong evidence of a personal vendetta and agenda. Your insistance on Vaisnava aparadha is hellish. All those innocents who hear your blasphemy will also be hurt. You have Radha Govinda Swami, Bhagavata Maharajah, and myself all telling you this, but you know much better than those who lived with him for years or who know his character. You spend a hour with him and are now hisjudge? This is tamoguna.
Tamoharadasa 1 day ago
PADA: @Tamoharadasa I was there, I talked to GGM personally, I am not listening to anything a GBC says nor have I cited a GBC in the video? I am citing GGM, I am citing papers he wrote, I am citing that he was voted in by them, I am citing that eye-witnesses I know saw him prop up Tamal in 93, I am citing his paper where he admits the gurus he supports are often demons, I am citing his disciples, I am citing his words where he attacks Prabhupada, I am not citing a GBC here? Where do I say that?
pada1008

PADA: Bhagavat Maharaja? Was he not one of the 50 man committee that got Bhavananda re-instated and more gurus voted in, he was part of the 1986 "guru reform" where this foolish gentleman thought he was going to "reform the acharyas"? And the "guru reform" his team made was to reinstate a known homosexual as acharya? What kind of reform is this Bhagavat maharaja making? He is a total fool, he thinks he is going to reform the acharyas, what a dog! Yes, reform the acharyas, dog level of brain. ys pd pada1008

T: Whatever their bogus GBC excuse, and you believe them? Thats not true, many wanted GGS's discipleship long before the GBC's recognized him I told you, he is Mahabhgavata and everyone in India sees it except you fools. He wasn't even scheduled to give classes, yet they are begging for hios diksa, so when he defied their nonsense and exposed them, they make an excuse to remove his corporate "power". The rubber stamp adherence is to fulfill SP's orders never to leave iskckon.
Tamoharadasa 1 day ago

PADA @Tamoharadasa GGM supported the GBC bogus gurus, told me PERSONALLY he is cooperating, tolerating and working with them; says my idea of worship of Prabhupada is bogus; writes papers saying Srila Prabhupada's jiva tattva is wrong; at the center of supporting corporate gurus by helping them write papers, prop up Tamal, say we are deviants; he was even voted in at Bhavananda recoronation, anyone who participates in that is going to the lowest regions, read shastra. What about these points? ys pd pada1008

T: One question, where is Srila Prabhupada's written documentation and order from Srila BH, authorizing him to accept disciples? None? But you will not deny him. But you will deny another pure devotee Gour Govinda for not having a written paper for you? That is called a double standard, or worse. Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa ... GGM was "voted in as acharya" with a known homosexual peodphile posing as Vishnupada, which was known to all present because there was stacks of reports on Bhavs behaviors submitted to the GBC and which was being discussed all over the society. The written papers prove everyting about GGM. Prabhupada says acharyas are self effulgent, they do not need a paper, GGM needs a paper from the pedophile messiahs, he is the person who needed a certificate, but he got the wrong one. ys pd pada1008

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T: SP said we cannot understand the sastra except by his explanation, not to jump over and read Bhaktisiddanta we will not understand, GGS told his prospective disciples the same, but he also has them reading SP's books as the standards. He himself wrote only three or four small books. That you cannot understand. He also uses tapes, in actuality, exactly as did SP, though SP said to hear direct from guru personally ideally. Sastra advises you to hear a sadhu directly, so did GGS, so did SP.
Tamoharadasa

You misquote re hearing directly from sadhu is out of context. Next time, print the whole conversation of which that small quote was but a pretext to further conversation on that topic in which all was clarified, and it will be seen what is true and what is your propaganada BS.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa The whole issue of my meeting with GGM is discussed on this video. I told him the GBC was making molesters into acharyas, he knew, also knew more than me because he was in the institution. He and all of us knew that Bhavananda was being criticized for homosex in 1986, he knew because he was right there, yet he went along to get along, and then became their position paper writer and defender. He told me that the ritvik idea is not found in shastra, he supported them, period.
pada1008

Comment removed Tamoharadasa 1 day ago
T: I am not impressed with your insistence on this cont'd abusive rant. How does the fact that GGS was in Iskcon during Bhavananda's insanities in any way except your imagination lead to your repression? In fact YOUR presence in Iskcon led to MY being abusd by them, so in the same logic you use, YOU are a child abuser, PADA ! They were going to take away his "goorooship"in their corporation ! So how does this jive with your slanted attacks? Your imagination does not jive with historical actuality.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa The GBC were going to take away GGM guru-ship because he was challenging Srila Prabhupada over the jiva issue, and they were right to chastise him over this. The bottom line is: everyone else knew that the GBC gurus were deviating BADLY, it was in all the newspapers of the usa, but GGM did not know? This is bogus, he knew and he was protecting, covering up, supporting, writing documents, assisting, cheer leading, and keeping Tamal in power when even the GBC was fed up. ys pd

T: You can say, for example, "GGS was loved by thousands and preached all over the world, some say he was nitya siddha, but because of too close association with liars he was not given reliable information about Srila Prabhupada's ritivk system nor degree of abuses carried out by the GBCs, so he was compromised, in my opinion, and in the end did not correctly represent Srila Prabhupada" SAY IT NICELY, don't try to say he is a child abuser by association ! He never attacked SP, thats a lie.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadas Kirtanananda was and still is loved by people? GGM was given reliable information, I told him the GBC was making homosexual molesters into acharyas, I said lets stress on Prabhupada worship, he said no, he has to work with them and our worship of Prabhupada is the bogus ritvik idea. He attacked Srila Prabhupada's jiva tattva, GGM says we did not originate in Krishna's lila or sport. This is an attack on the acharya. He supported the child abuser acharya program. Fact. ys pd
pada1008

T: Again extrapolation, that his traditional interpretation of sastra was somehow directly responsible for your personal problems with demons. Don't forget that GGS was not an inner circle man with these GBCs, he was contantly being attacked by them also. They may have poisoned him too. If you told me ritvik in 1995 I would have laughed in your face also. The truth, GBC"Iskcon" hides. Anyway, y r u attacking GGS swami repeatedly? He is not here to defend himself, so just stop it.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadas Extrapolating what? GGM told me personally he has to cooperate, tolerate and work with them, he told me personally my idea of worship of the pure devotee is bogus ritviks, GGM was the person who stood up in 1993 and saved Tamal from being booted out, GGM was voted in with Bhavananda and this caused us to be repressed and killed, this is all documented. I am not hiding anything, he supported them by writing papers as well, he attacked Prabhupada on jiva tattva, all documented. ys pd

T: Why you keep picking on GG S? What did he ever do but preach as SP told him, told never to leave Iskcon and to work witrh the leaders/GBC, and you blame him for not understanding the extreme deviance of Tamal and others? How do u equate that he is their low level? You were devotee when Bhav took, so you are also a GBC supporter, Pada ! How would GGS know about such things? He is from a pure medieval tiny Rupanuga Vaisnava village, famous for kirtan and miracles, not CIA , has no expereince. Tamoharadasa

PADA @Tamoharadasa Gaura Govinda swami was the main "siddhanta backer" of "the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual child molesters as acharyas" program, his program attacked us, killed our friends, molested thousands of childreen, bankrupted ISKCON, and he is responsible because he was Tamals' bucket boy, and according to the Vedas the promoters are as guilty as the perps. I was a devotee when Bhavananda took acharya, well maybe, but I was a protestor, not a supporter. ys pd
pada1008

T: I have all respect and consideration for your work in bringing truth to light, but you are harping continuosly with a personal vendetta upon a pure Vaisnava. Born in pure kirtaniya family, scholar in Bhagavatam as a young child, family of pure devotees, pure in his grhasta life, perfect sannyasi, talks directly with Gopal, performs miracles, totally SP's servant. There is nothing further to say. Fools rush in. GGS is a pure devotee, no debate from you needed.. Smarten up, pls.
Tamoharadasa

ST: @Tamoharadasa pada is so envious of his own guru he sued Iskcon, what to speak of his godbrothers like GGM, pada will never recognize any of them to be pure, because he can't understand his own guru's instruction to cooperate and tolerate, whatever. Pada thinks the best way to serve Iskcon is to sue it for all it's worth, steal it's temples devotees and resources and give them to another group, the ritviks, and ultimately to take many more births before coming back to Iskcon again. He is sad.
SuperTumeric

T: @SuperTumeric Just for the records, better us ritviks than the GBC corporate guru-poisoner CIA agents. You say ritvik, i say simply following Srila Prabhupada as he ordered. He (pada) and I and all the loyal disciples, perhaps you also, ARE Iskcon, not the Maya-itsacon usurpers and her sycophants and psychopathic mini-Jesuses, which I beleive you refer to ? They poisoned SP for the CIA and their insane egos. Pada has done much to reveal this truth. But hes wrong 100% on GGS. AGTSP.
Tamoharadasa 

PADA @Tamoharadasa GGM has a personal vendetta against us, he said our idea of worship of the pure devotee is a bunch of ritvik rubbish which is against shastra, and because he said that, our people were beaten, and killed, and thousands of kids were molested. He attacked us, we are simply defending from his vicious attacks on us. After he was voted in as guru Sulochana was killed and I was chased with baseball bats, by the GGM guru regime. GGM has no authority to have us killed, none, zero.
pada1008

T: You are an idiot. SP personally told GG to stay in Iskcon. So you are gross offenders and fools. He is a Mahabhagavata, and you are pieces of crap. YOU are know-nothing cockroaches.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa Gaura govinda maharaja was voted in as guru at the re-coronation of Bhavananda, i.e. voted in as guru with a known homosexual peodphile posing as Vishnupada. GGM is going to hell just for that alone. GGM stood up and defended keeping these gurus in power over and over again, including in 1993 when he said we need to keep Tamal. He wanted the Tamal / Bhavananda regime which was putting homosexuals and molesters into vyasasanas, he is in hell now, this is not allowed, period. pada1008

ST: @pada1008 If GG was voted in as guru with Bhavananda what fault is that of GGM? Srila Prabhupada personally told GGM to take disciples, but when GGM told that to the original 11 they said no they wanted written proof, and since GGM was told that verbally by Prabhupada he offered what he could for proof but it wasn't accepted. How can you say that he should have changed the entire GBC when he was just voted in and was a new member? Especially when some say the GBC wanted to get rid of him later? SuperTumeric

PADA: @SuperTumeric Gurus are not voted in; Gurus, even dogs are not voted in at pedophile recoronations; GGM supporting the GBC got people like Sulochana assassinated and me almost assassinated; Mass child molesting was going on thanks to GGM supporting pedophile gurus; GGM said our idea of worship of pure devotees is bogus; GGM wrote many papers for the GBC, including "gurus are sometimes demons; There is zero recorded evidence GGM was ordered to be a guru; GGM said we originate in brahman, etc pada1008

ST: @pada1008 There is no recorded evidence that Srila Prabhupada was ordered by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta to become a guru either but we all know he is a bonafide guru! Similarly Prabhupada ordered the GBC to add gurus as needed. The GBC has decided on a system for adding gurus where they vote in a candidate similar to the way the Pope is elected. One would think that you and your fucking Christian ideas about Krishna Conscousness should be able to appreciate that. SuperTumeric

PADA: You claim that GGM was ordered by Prabhupada to do what he did? Where?
pada1008

ST: @pada1008 Pada you asked where Prabhupada said to GGM to cooperate tolerate and work with his godbrothers? Everyone knows the quote, Prabhupada said on his death bed in Vrndavana that you will show your love for me by how you cooperate amongst each other to spread this Krishna Consciousness movement after I am gone. GGM was doing just that. Not only that, Prabhupada spent one week alone with GGM in Bhubaneshwar before leaving the planet and told him to become guru among many other instructions. SuperTumeric

PADA: @SuperTumeric OK. I will give you $108,000 reward if you can show me one shred of proof that Srila Prabhupada ordered GGM or anyone else to "cooperate, tolerate and work with" (and write position papers of support for) the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as acharyas. Put up or shut up. I will write you a check right now, show us the proof that is what Srila Prabhupada said. Where is your proof? Cooperate with PRABHUPADA'S movement, not the child molester guru movement? ys pd pada1008

ST: @pada1008 You say that GGM said gurus are sometimes demons, WRONG! He said that if a guru falls down then he was never even a bona fide guru in the first place. You sir are a liar and a cheat. You can't win arguments by logic and argument so you make up lies and tell them so often that eventually some innocent people hear them and start to believe them. As Lincoln said, you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all time
SuperTumeric

PADA: @SuperTumeric No, GGM supported the worship of demons as gurus because he told me personally that he has to "cooperate, tolerate and work with the GBC" -- who is making demons into gurus. So GGM is the person who is helping to make demons into gurus, and then he says, after he crams his demon gurus down your throat, you have to pray to Krishna to get this fixed. GGM stabs you in the back with a machete, then he says, pray to God to get this fixed? He tries to kill you, and God has to fix that? pada1008

T: @pada1008 I ve heard your poisonous attacks before. This is nothing but the grossest Vaisnava aparadha and an attack on an innocent. You have gone too far, are making up stories, and have now become almost as big an ass as the GBC creeps you attack. You and anyone envious enough to listen to your poisonous attack of a nitya siddha Mahabhagvata will suffer severe Vaisnava aparadha . You are personally bringing down the ritivik movement like Satan by the force of this severe offense.
Tamoharadasa

PADA: @Tamoharadasa Dear Tamohara, you have to be specific. I said that GGM was voted in as guru at the recoronation of Bhavananda, I said he was writing position papers for the molester messiahs camp, I said he attacked Srila Prabhupada's jiva tattva, I said he was at the GBC meetings vociferously demanding that they keep Tamal in the post of guru, GGM thus has a policy: founder father of molester messiahs has to stay, we dissenters can get beat and assassinated, he supported that regime. Or what?
pada1008