Thursday, July 21, 2011

Rocana's posthumous church of the living dead (ISKCON) ys pd

(FROM: -- Sampradaya Sun web site) ROCANA -- Jul 20, 2011 — CANADA (SUN)

Rocana: — In Part One and Part Two of "Word and a Staple", we have been addressing Madhudvisa das's article, "The Truth is Very Powerful". Thus far we have made several points, defeating the notion that the July 7th Conversation was a "dictation" of the July 9th Letter; that the July 9th Letter memorialized a rtvik system that had already been going; and that in the July 9th Letter, Srila Prabhupada was setting down his final instructions for future initiations, instituting a post-samadhi diksa ritvik system. All these assertions are proved to be false. Prior to addressing Madhudvisa dasa, we also pointed out a pattern of falsification of the July 9th Letter text.

[PADA: Rocana, his Gaudiya Matha allies, his ghost writers like Kailasha chandra, the GBC, all of these deviants agree on the same principle points: we are NOT supposed to worship Srila Prabhupada at present -- NOW -- because he never actually said (in a legally signed and written document) that he should be worshipped "henceforward."

So we should not ever love a person -- unless -- this person writes a "legally documented formal request letter" saying -- we have to love and worship -- this person? How is this going to work? Unless Krishna sends me a certified and registered legal letter; duly signed and notarized by a member of the San Francisco courts; and signed by Krishna's lawyer and witnessed by three neutral observers, and saying "You need to worship Me henceforward," I should cease to worship Krishna? I need a formal legal letter? What!

Why does Rocana DEMAND that he needs a "legally signed and documented registered letter" from his guru, to worship his guru? This proves that ROCANA has zero love for Srila Prabhupada. Rocana thinks the "guru and disciple" loving principle is all based on written legally signed letters, court documents, and not love. For example: The Bangalore devotees now exhibit love for Srila Prabhupada, and that is the real reason Rocana hates and attacks them, they are swimming in the honey inside the bottle whereas Rocana is the envious fly licking the outside of the bottle. These Bangalore devotees love Srila Prabhupada and so this is making Rocana simmer with rage and anger, thus he demands to see "where are their legal documents"? Where are their "legal papers" -- "proving" -- that they are authorized to love Srila Prahbupada"? This is because he does not have what they have, they have the honey and he is as dried up as a dead fish on the beach. Rocana wants a certified letter to prove these people love Krishna, but they already have that love without Rocana's inspection and certification, that is why he is so offended, being the bona fide smarta Pharisee that he is. 

Rocana is so absurd -- if we think about it, "Maybe I would worship God, if He wrote me a legally signed, notarized and documented letter, otherwise -- not"? Rocana is such a puffed up fool he refuses to worship a guru unless this guru writes a specific signed and legal order for him to do that, which "legally proves" Rocana has nothing but disdain for the worship of Srila Prabhupada. "Srila Prabhupada has to legally prove in writing that he needs to be worshipped, or else we are going to tell people to quit worshipping him," and that is all Rocana does day and night. The Pandavas loved Krishna, ooops, this is bogus because they had no specific written legal order from the court of Rocana to do that! The gopis did not have any papers to "prove" they loved Krishna either? Rocana is such a smarta Pharisee its almost beyond belief.

Rocana's entire argument then is: there is no "legally written proof" that we have to worship our guru, because he hates to see Srila Prabhupada being worshipped out of love -- as the Prabhupadanugas are doing. Why? Because Rocana has this profound hatred and disdain for Srila Prabhupada's being worshipped as the current guru, which of course is why Rocana's team always refers to Srila Prabhupada as: dead, posthumous, post mortem, post samadhi, ok the dead and gone and forgotten person. Only Rocana glorifies his guru as the post-mortem dead body. Of course Rocana thinks he is very glorious because he has a live body, forgetting that even a scorpion has a living body. This is the same argument as Rocana's twins in the molester messiah's camp, we we are living, so we should be worshipped. Why?

Rocana needs a written legal document to serve his guru, that means he has no love for his guru. In fact Rocana hates it that people are worshipping Srila Prabhupada with no "legal letters" at all, ... all just because they love him. And so Rocana has made it his life's work to "prove" that the worship of Krishna via his pure devotee is bogus, because we have not legally "proved" that this process is bona fide.

Rocana goes up to two lovers who are getting married and he says, "Where is your legal / court appointed letter where you two were ordered to love one another"? He has no idea what is "loving" service to God and guru for starters, he says there is no possible way to love your guru unless your guru writes a legally binding and notarized letter saying -- you have to love him? What a foolish stone hearted dolt! We have to "legally prove" that it is bona fide to love Krishna via His pure devotees? Unfortunately for people like Rocana and his ilk, who are placing immense legal road blocks to the love of Krishna's pure devotees, they will find they are themselves subject to the "legal rules" of the courts of Yamaraja. Wait till Yamaraja asks Rocana and his many other dead guru cohort / consorts to show their legal papers! Hee hee!

And all this begs the question, "Who are we supposed to worship instead of Srila Prabhupada, because our legal documents cannot pass muster in the court of Rocana"? Rocana is never saying. Rocana says our worship of Srila Prabhupada is "The Church of Ritvik" -- but he has never specified who is the guru of his Church? His Church has no guru at all? Or maybe Rocana might be his own messiah? Rocana never says who is the current guru of his own Church now? EVER!

NOTE: All of these above deviants agree to one central point, that Srila Prabhupada's books are no longer giving "divyam jnanam which destroys sins" (diksha) because his books are now out-dated, defunct, departed, inert, posthumous, dead and gone, and thus irrelevant books and moreover the books are now "post samadhi." Srila Prabhupada says he will live forever in his books, where does Srila Prabhupada say that he agrees with Rocana that after he departs, his books would then be expired, inoperative, passed away, postmortem, posthumous and post samadhi? Krishna's words are post-mortem? This means Rocana is de facto and atheist, Q: Who but an atheist would say the words of God are posthumous dead words? A: A person who hates God, that is whom.]

ROCANA: In yesterday's segment, we pointed out the fact that the July 7th Conversation was not comprised of Srila Prabhupada instructing a ritvik diksa system for future initiations after his departure. Rather, he was addressing a specific problem Tamal Krishna had raised: that there was a bottleneck of aspirants seeking initiation, which had formed because the leaders had arbitrarily stopped engaging in the process for initiations Srila Prabhupada already had in place. Without authorization, they had stopped processing initiates because, they said, they were worried that it would cause further problems to Srila Prabhupada's health. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada instructed them to go forward – not to stop or delay – and he added a few adjustments to further streamline the process.

[PADA: Where does the July 7th letter say what Rocana always says, "After I depart, my books will be posthumous and my worship will be post mortem," as Rocana keeps saying like a broken record? Where is there any evidence that acharyas are going to be called "posthumous" dead guys, as Rocana says of Krishna and His (shaksat hari) acharyas all day long? Never mind what the ritviks are saying, where does Rocana find his quotes to prove his claims that acharyas are to be advertised as posthumous, postmorten, post samadhi, terms as Rocana and his Gaudiya Matha pals are always using?]

ROCANA: Although Madhudvisa das would like us to believe that in the July 7th Conversation, the adjustments Srila Prabhupada made were "obviously in preparation for the time when he would be no longer physically present with us", we have clearly shown that to be a speculative and false statement. This is underscored by several facts we didn't mention yesterday. First, in his July 7th remarks, Srila Prabhupada indicated that his health was not at issue with respect to initiations by instructing that initiations go forward. Please note that Tamal Krishna had introduced this discussion by suggesting (albeit not very succinctly) that the concern was about Prabhupada taking on the karmic burden of more new disciples.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada says that Jesus is still accepting the sins of his followers, whereas Rocana had supported the GBC idea that homosexuals and deviants are going to accept the sins of others. Perhaps Rocana now realizes this is bogus, yet Rocana never tell us -- "Who is accepting the sins in Rocana's system now"? Apparently no one is? Rocana first of all said deviants are going to accept the sins, then he implies that Jesus is more powerful that Srila Prabhupada because Jesus can accept sins but Srila Prabhupada cannot.

Then: Rocana's team says we are the ones emphasizing Jesus, when they are! Rocana's team is saying Jesus is more glorious than Srila Prabhupada because only Jesus can absorb sins now (absorbing sins is part of diksha), then his team says we are the Christians who emphasize Jesus, when they are the only persons emphasizing Jesus and not us? Where did Srila Prabhupada say he would cease to act as guru and accept the sins of the current followers? And how come Rocana has not even figured out where the sins go in his system, or -- is he still thinking his molester messiahs are going to take the sins? He never explains.]

ROCANA: Tamal Krishna: "You know, he takes on the... He has to cleanse the disciple by... So we don't want that you should have to... Your health is not so good, so that should not be... That's why we've been asking everybody to wait." It was not that the problem Tamal raised was the burden of receiving letters or picking names, therefore the adjustments Srila Prabhupada made did not relate to the real problem at hand – a bottleneck caused out of concern for the negative health effects of taking on karmic burden.

[PADA: So we should not worship Srila Prabhupada now in 2011, because at one point in 1977 Srila Prabhupada asked others to conduct the ceremonies?]

ROCANA: Again, this clearly demonstrates that the July 7th Conversation, and the July 9th Letter in which Tamal Krishna memorialized that meeting in his own words, were not about Srila Prabhupada making plans for his future absence. In fact, just the opposite is indicated. He instructed them to carry on with initiations, not hold them up; in other words, he would continue to carry the added karmic burden.

[PADA: So Jesus can accept sins now, but Srila Prabhupada cannot, because of some letter written in 1977?]

ROCANA: But history shows that immediately after the Spring 1978 Mayapur meetings, when the Zonal Acarya scheme emerged, all the new acaryas headed directly back to their zones and began initiating all those thousands of disciples waiting in the queue, as their own direct disciples.

[PADA: Rocana has never explained why he supported that system in the first place? Rocana has never explained how these eleven became gurus, other than, that he and many other fools went on supporting them as gurus even after it was evident they were deviants? Rocana's camp still refers to some of the GBC as diksha gurus, because they think members of the molester messiahs camp are able to act like Jesus and absorb sins? What system was ordered if these 11 were NOT supposed to be gurus? Why does Rocana imply that Srila Prabhupada made a mistake and he thought his (ritvik) proxies were supposed to be his successors? Why has Rocana never explained what was ordered then? A priest has a zone, but Rocana thought gurus have zones. Rocana thought that the job of the priest was the job of being an acharya, he is mistaken. And now he is trying to blame Srila Prabhupada for his foolish mistake. Yes, if Srila Prabhupada had only wrote a certified letter to Rocana saying illicit sex is not found in acharyas, poor Rocana might have been saved from being their boot licker.]

ROCANA: We have written about this many times in the past, suggesting that the interruption of initiations before Prabhupada's departure in 1977 was very likely tied to a long-range takeover plan among the senior men. We can only speculate about it, but personally, I think it's a very likely scenario.

[PADA: OK so the senior men were stepping over their role as priests and were "taking over" the post of guru, that means they were not supposed to be gurus, that means they were only appointed as ritviks. Rocana is arguing with his own shadow now.]

ROCANA: So even though the July 9th Letter came out, no initiations took place as a result from July to November, when Srila Prabhupada left his mortal form. All those people who wanted to get initiation from Srila Prabhupada didn't get initiated by him. And given all that is known about the consciousness of these Zonal Acaryas, I think we must consider the May 28th Conversation, the July 7th Conversation and the July 9th Letter in the context of that knowledge, since they introduced each one of these communicates – not Srila Prabhuapda. We'll hold further comment on this point until a later segment. For now, let us return to Madhudvisa prabhu's position.

[PADA: The May 28th conversation says in the future, when you are no longer with us, there will be some people acting as ritviks initiating on your behalf, why is this not relevant?]

ROCANA: "So everything is spoiled because many of the ritviks are trying to use Prabhupada's July 9th letter to "prove" that Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become qualified gurus, and the other side, ISKCON, the gurus, are trying to prove that Prabhupada can not continue to accept disciples after his physical disappearance. Both sides are trying to establish a lie... "

[PADA: And what has Rocana legally proved in all these years? He has proved that he first of all mistakenly thought 11 priests were appointed as acharyas, he also thought gurus have zones, he also thought that homosexual peodphiles "acharyas" can be "reformed" and he was going to reform them, and he still says what the pedophile acharyas club said all along, that Srila Prabhupada is posthumous ... in sum he has simply proved that he hates to see Srila Prabhupada worshipped because as soon as he finds someone is doing that he challenges their "legal and written" authority to love and serve Srila Prabhupada, and so on. He says our idea to worship Srila Prabhupada is a bunch of lies, distortions and half truths, love of guru is a lie? No, it means Rocana wants to "prove" our love of guru is a lie because he wants to "prove" that such love does not exist. He is trying to prove that love of Srila Prabhupada is bogus because we need to show our legal papers proving that we have the authority to love him, why? .... he has no love for anyone except his other kill guru and become guru Srila Prabhupada hater's club]

ROCANA: Although Madhudvisa prabhu, as part of his Rtvik position, accepts the notion that Srila Prabhupada can continue to accept disciples after his physical disappearance via rtvik initiations, he doesn't answer the standing questions about the mechanism for this to take place, supposedly set down in the July 9th Letter.

[PADA: Worship of guru is a "mechanism"? Its a machine? It has to be written down in a legal document "you have to love me"? There is not a shred of love in this Rocana fellow. He is a smarta Pharisee.]

ROCANA: For example, does Madhudvisa conclude that post-samadhi diksa initiation is only via the 11 named rtvik priests -- which would mean only while they're still living?

[PADA: No Srila Prabhupada said he would give the divyam jnanam FOREVER from his books, and that would destroy the sins FOREVER, that is called diksha.]

ROCANA: In fact, these questions are their Achilles heel.

[PADA: Rocana says there is no proof the books are giving diksha, but we are producing hundreds of new devotees from these books, whereas he has produced nothing in 35 years.]

ROCANA: They insist that the July 9th Letter was Srila Prabhupada's final instruction for how diksa initiations will go on in the future (some say for the next 10,000 years),

[PADA: No, the books are giving the divyam jnanam not the July 9th letter.]

ROCANA: But the Letter itself names only 11 men to act as "rittik". Even if one were to accept that Tamal Krishna's "henceforward" means forever and ever, the rittik process would end when these 11 men leave their bodies.

[PADA: So when the 11 die, Srila Prabhupada's books will no longer give divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha)? Where is this stated? Why does Rocana think that when 11 fools die, the books of the pure devotee are no longer potent to give the divyam jnanam?]

ROCANA: Of course, when one presents this conundrum to the Rtviks, they'll likely get one of a small selection of answers, the most common of which is that, "The 11 men are fallen, and if the GBC functioned properly, they would name new men.

[PADA: That is what the May tape says, when they (ritviks) deviate they can be replaced? Rocana is such and idiot he thinks he will live forever and he will never be replaced by another generation? Or he thinks Srila Prabhupada only wanted 11 people to be the all in all, and after they died his books would merge off into insignificance?]

ROCANA: But the GBC isn't functioning, therefore the devotees have a right to pick their own new Ritvik priests." Of course, such a response is the height of hypocrisy. The Rtviks demand that we follow the letter of the law set down in the July 9th Letter, Srila Prabhupada's absolute final instruction for the infinite future – but at the same time, they've already changed it totally to suit their own conceptions. They have appointed their own Rtvik priests, outside of the institution, and are busy conducting Rtvik diksa initiation ceremonies.

[PADA: So we should just quit preaching like Rocana and not make any new Krishna devotees? Why does Rocana hate Krishna so badly that he writhes in anger when he sees new Krishna devotees and he is spitting an angry demand that these new devotees show their legal documents so they can "prove" they are living God?]

ROCANA: A small contingent of Rtviks have finally faced the reality that such a position represents maha-hypocrisy, and they have cozied up to the only one among the 11 men who will still talk to them today – Hansadutta.

[PADA: Hansadutta is a bad guy, therefore, lets stop making Krishna's devotees? Rocana is obsessed with Hansadutta and not Srila Prabhupada. Hansadutta was recently hospitalized, he is very weak, and he seems to be nearly at death's door from blood pressure illness. Most of us, especially seeing his very deteriorated health condition, have forgiven him, and are well wishing him all the best because it seems he is not going to be here a long time. We have moved on since he is not a threat to a peanut in his current state? In any case, Hansadutta is not being viewed (by more than a few people in Malaysia) as a big authority by anyone else we know of? Except Rocana! The idea of worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus because of -- Hansadutta? Not relevant! Well this is amazing, the Bangalore devotees are sometimes only devotees for six months and they already love Srila Prabhupada, they do not need a legal letter for that, only the self-righteous smarta Pharisees like Rocana wants to see your legal written high court documented papers to prove that you love Srila Prabhupada.

Well at the time of death Rocana's smarta Pharisee papers are useless, we need to have love, and these six month newly minted devotees in Bangalore have a MILLION TRILLION times more love for Srila Prabhupada than ROCANA has EVER HAD EVER. They will die and go back to Srila Prabhupada because they love him, and Rocana will be blocked from going back because he is trying to block others from going back. VERY SINFUL! MOST SINFUL! Yes Rocana, you will only have your smarta and Pharisee legal papers, and no love, and you will go down, our devotees will have love, no papers required, and they will fly back home automatically. ys pd]

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