Women Gurus…
At its annual meetings, ISKCON’s Governing Body Commission (GBC) discussed a core issue, the qualifications of guru. In a quiet, but radical move it was accepted that women could be gurus in ISKCON.
In the Vaisnava tradition, to which ISKCON belongs, the guru is a vital part of the spiritual life of the devotee. In ISKCON’s history, a number of gurus have deviated from the high standards expected of them and this has caused much grief amongst their disciples and in the Society at large. Therefore it is not surprising that it is an issue that the GBC returns to often.
In what many will regard as a radical step, the GBC gave formal assent to women taking on the role of initiating guru.
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Dear Madhudvisa dasa I know that you are quite busy and I do not want to bother you. I also myself work 6-days a week and do not have much time eather, But please if you could answer this question I would be very greatfull. How can the GBC appoint women gurus? Your servant Steve.
Dear Steve
Hare Krishna! please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
ISKCON’s guru system simply does not work. They have appointed so many gurus who have practically all turned out to be bogus. This has destroyed the lives of so many devotees searching after spiritual life who have been coerced to accept unqualified men as paramahamsas, pure devotees. These devotees have been convinced to take initiation from “ISKCON gurus”, to surrender to them and to serve them.
We have seen it over and over again, these unqualified gurus — while completely unable to deliver the real seed of devotion to their disciples — are very expert at taking service from their disciples. These “ISKCON gurus” accept service on the premise that they are pure devotees, liberated souls capable of delivering their disciples from the blazing fire of this material world (samsara davanala lidha loka…).
But they are unable to pour the waters of mercy on their disciples like the rain which extinguishes the forest fire. They are simply incapable of performing the task the guru has to perform. That is to plant the seed of devotion, the bhakti-lata bija, within the hearts of their disciples, and then to cultivate that tiny sprouting creeper of devotion until it becomes a fully-grown healthy plant producing flowers, fruits and seeds.
So the current guru system in ISKCON has failed and the GBC more or less accept it has failed, they are always looking for some way to “fix” their guru sustem but refuse to accept the only sollution — take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. So this recent GBC resolution stating ISKCON will now introduce women gurus is meaningless noise. They do not have any guru-tattva, they do not have any qualified gurus, they have no idea about guru at all. So we can take it as the mutterings of crazy men. We can not take ISKCON very seriously on anything unfortunately.
The reality is a real Vaisnava guru is very rare, and he is self-effulgent like the Sun. As it is not difficult to spot the Sun in the sky — the Sun is self-effulgent — everyone can see the Sun immediately. Similarly a real Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent like the Sun. No one has to point him out, he does not require “authorization” from the GBC. Actually if a “guru” feels he needs to work under the authority of the GBC then we can understand immediately he is bogus. A real spiritual master does not work under any such eclestical body. He has his relationship with his guru and he works under the authority of his guru. He has to have the freedom to instruct his disciples as he sees fit. He can not work in a system where he does not have the ultimate authority over his disciples.
The disciple has to surrender to his spiritual master and follow his instructions as his life and soul, and the spiritual master has to be a pure devotee, a paramahamsa and he has to have full authority over his disciples and must be able to instruct them as their absolute authority. That is the system from the beginning of time and it will never change.
ISKCON’s GBC have styled themselves as the “guru police.” They have taken it as their business to approve and suspend “gurus” as they so choose and according to their politics of the day. No real guru would put himself under the authority of such a political body. He can not put himself in a position where he may be prevented from giving good instruction to his disciples. This may well happen in ISKCON if a guru’s instruction to his disciples was not in line with some of the politics of the GBC. In such a case the GBC could take away the “gurus” “badge” and take his disciples away.
No bona fide guru could work in such a situation.
So you can know it for absolutely sure that there are no qualified gurus in ISKCON.
This idea of ISKCON appointing women gurus is simply a joke. They have never succeeded in appointing even one bona fide guru, and they never will, because gurus are not appointed… No disciple in ISKCON has been properly initiated since 1977 and as we can very plainly see the whole organization has collapsed into a dysfunctional mess. Now they are adding women “gurus”…
The underlying idea is that the GBC think they can “make” gurus by taking some women and giving her a “guru badge.” But surely they have seen this does not work with all the “guru badges” they have issued to men over many years. A guru is not appointed by the GBC. A Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent…
So the GBC can not make gurus. All they can do is wait for self-effulgent gurus to appear — and of course they will not accept him — because he will not agree to be under the authority of the GBC… A real guru is very rare. And we are very fortunate to have the “gold standard” with Srila Prabhupada and we have so much access to Srila Prabhupada through his books and his vani (instructions) in the form of audio and video recordings. So we can take advantage of the association and instructions of Srila Prabhupada and serve him.
If a self effulgent guru appears that is nice. And really it does not matter, man or women, we are not the body. However, a spirit soul in the body of a women should act in such a way that other spirit souls in women’s bodies, if they follow her example, will advance spiritually. So the good qualities for a women are chastity, submission to her husband, shyness, etc. So a Vaisnava lady will not push herself forward to become a guru as we understand it. Such a thing is unheard of in the entire tradition of Gaudia Vaisnavism. There is no example of this in the past.
“As a man must follow great personalities like Brahma and Narada, a woman must follow the path of such ideal women as Sita, Mandodari and Draupadi. By staying chaste and faithful to her husband, a woman enriches herself with supernatural power.”
So it is not at all appropriate for a women to push herself forward and try to lord it over the sannyasis and brahmacaris for example. It would turn the whole social system upside down and simply create a great disturbance. Rather a pure devotee in a women’s body will act as a guru but in the role of a women. One can read the “Teachings of Queen Kunti” to see the great prayers of a great Vaisnava in the body of a women.
So overall, don’t take any notice of the crazy mutterings emanating from ISKCON, rather take shelter of Srila Prabhupada by reading his books and all the real knowledge will be revealed to you.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
61 Responses to ISKCON GBC approves Women Gurus…
Areya says: Urmila mata would make a good guru and I would, in another time, take instruction from her. Male gurus should not have female disciples and women require different counseling. Just plain commonsense. Hare Krishna.
Reply
Madhudvisa dasa says: You don’t understand what guru is. I suggest you read Srila Prabhupada’s books and find out.
arikith roy chowdhury says:
Hare Krishna Prabhu
PAMHO
All glories to srila prabhupada. If we say all ISKCON gurus are bogus then aren’t we questioning prabhupada’s ability to make pure devotees? As only a pure devotee can become a bonafide guru. I have no intention to offend you. I am just asking. Ys Arikith Roy Chowdhury
Reply
Madhudvisa dasa says:
You misunderstand. No one can become a pure devotee without a pure devotee as his spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada is the topmost qualified pure devotee of Krishna. But even Srila Prabhupada, even Krishna Himself, can not “make” pure devotees. You do not understand what a pure devotee is. Devotee is surrender to Krishna, and this is possible only by surrendering to Krishna’s pure devotee. So surrender is something only the devotee can do. It is not something that Krishna or the spiritual master can “make” the devotee do.
So Prabhupada is giving us all the absolute truth and begging us to surrender to Krishna, but we refuse to surrender to Krishna. That is our disease, that is the disease of the material world. So the reality is almost no one surrenders. That is why, sa mahatma sudurlabha, “Such a great soul is very, very rare.”
So actually it is very, very rare to find a pure devotee, a bonafide guru, but ISKCON has made it very common. So ISKCON are cheating. They are presenting conditioned souls as gurus, but a conditioned soul can not be a spiritual master.
So the ISKCON guru system is totally corrupted, totally bogus, and you will never find a bona fide spiritual master in today’s ISCKCON. If somehow there was a bona fide spiritual master in ISKCON they would drive him out very quickly.
So there is no question of anyone, including Krishna, “making” someone a pure devotee. Krishna is presenting the knowledge in Bhagavad-gita, “Surrender to Me.” And Prabhupada is begging us, “Surrender to Krishna,” but we refuse to surrender.
So it is in our hands. We can choose to surrender to Srila Prabhupada and surrender to Krishna, but we don’t want to do that. That is our disease, that is ISKCON’s disease, that is the disease of everyone in the material world.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Vishvesh Oswal says:
Hare Krishna Madhudvisa prabhu ,
By Your Grace finally i’m going to start cooking and offer to Srila Prabhupada . My parents agreed to construct small Kitchen (2nd kitchen) in my own bedroom, so I can cook without interfering in between them. So i want to ask one question, Should I storage all the raw material (rice, flour, pulses, spices etc) in separate container ??? or Can i just get whatever needed to cook from our main Kitchen stock containers ??? And getting new utensils for prasadam as they cooking using onion and garlic , just have doubt regarding raw material usage . HARIBOL !!!!!!!!!
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Hare Krishna Vishvesh Prabhu. Very good news Prabhu. You don’t need separate stocks of the raw materials.
Rupa Raghunath Swami says:
From the moment that a woman WANTS to be Guru, she cannot be; a truly high mataji would never accept to be Guru.
>> (S.B. – 6-18-33 and 34) – PATI-GURU -.
For the woman, the supreme demigod, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the husband, Lord VÄsudeva, the husband of the goddess of fortune. “Pati-guru”, that is, spiritual master-husband. The husband represents the Lord as an object of worship for the woman.
Dr Sunayana Ghodgaonkar says:
You mean to say Radha Rani is inferior to Krishna. My obeisances. Their is nothing inferior superior. It’s only outer dressing.
Tukaram das says:
So… we are not this body… but a woman is her body? I do not think you can have it both ways.
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Of course, we are not the bodies. So on the spiritual platform there is no difference between a man and a women. But in reality, of course, in the material world, it is very rare to find anyone who is not on the material platform. Although we are not the body, still the bodies are different, and different bodies have different abilities and strengths and weaknesses.
An ant is also not the body, an ant is not different from you or me spiritually. But clearly the body of the ant causes him to interact with the material world in a different way and gives him a different set of abilities to a spirit soul in a human body. Similarly a man’s body is different form a woman’s body. Both types of bodies provide a different set of abilities. So the Vedic system is based on the principle of engaging everyone in service according to their abilities and qualities.
So a woman is not her body, but because she is in a woman’s body at the moment that body provides her with a certain set of abilities that mean she will be very successful in certain activities, whereas other activities, she will find quite difficult compared to if she was in a man’s body.
So the point is not that the spirt soul in a woman’s body is different from the spirit soul in a man’s body, she is a different individual living entity of course, but the quality is the same. The same spirit soul who is in a woman’s body now can take a man’s body in her next life. So the soul is not male or female in the way we see material bodies as male and female. However, as the spirit soul in an ant’s body has a certain set of abilities, because of the facilities the ant’s body provides him to interact with the material word, so also a spirit soul in a man’s body has a certain set of abilities and a spirit soul in a woman’s body has a different set of abilities.
So for society to function in the proper way these different abilities of a man’s body and a woman’s body have to be recognized. Not that there is any difference at all on the spiritual platform. But the reality is hardly anyone is on the spiritual platform, so we have to live in the material world in such a way that gradually the whole society will become spiritually elevated, and to achieve this, it is essential to recognize there are different types of people with different abilities and strengths, not just man and woman, but also brahmana, ksatrya, vaisha and sudra. For society to function properly the abilities of everyone have to be acknowledged and everyone needs to be engaged according to their abilities. Not that everyone is the same. This is called Varnasrama-dharma, you can study it to understand it more.
Aman says:
Hare Krishna!
Dandavat Pranam to all the devotees
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Unfortunately, ISKCON is finished now as said by Madhudvisa Prabhu in his articles and comments. I have always believed Madhudvisa Prabhu and in last three days I have seen it practically as I had to go to one ISKCON centre to do japa. The so-called devotees there can be seen talking on mobile phones much more than chanting Hare Krishna.
Most of them mostly only show that they are doing japa. In the temple, many people come to sing sahajiya songs and those sung in Bhagavata-saptaha in India. The so-called devotees are absolutely body conscious. There is no prasadam in the temple as it is not being offered to Srila Prabhupada first.
Only reason I went there to japa is the place is peaceful enough to do japa and there are Deities of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and one can offer obeisances unto Them and have the darshan of Their Lordships. So it is useless even to talk about current ISKCON now. I’m posting this just to warn everyone who reads it to stay away from ISKCON. Please increase your attachment with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books.
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Yes. But there’s not much point talking about how ISKCON has failed. We have to try instead to do some practical thing to help the people get Prabhupada’s books, hear the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra from the lips of pure devotees and get the chance to relish real Krsna Prasadam, etc…
Aman says:
Hare Krishna Prabhu
Yes Prabhu! This is what is my aim in life now. To become a pure devotee of Lord Krishna by distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books, letting everyone hear the chanting of Hare Krishna mantra and distribute real Krishna prasadam.
Mark Goodwin says:
This article was published in the second half of January. Did the GBC actually make this decision at that time, i.e., is it a DONE DEAL? Or was it a proposal? Did it not wait until now (the third week of March) at the Mayapur Annual Meeting in order to formalize such a proposal (or decision)? Kindly provide, as soon as practical, an update as to whether or not the GBC has now, at its Annual Meeting, given its imprimatur for female members of the institution it controls to wait in queue in order to receive the Certificate of No Objection? Is it cent-per-cent a fact that women can now become regular gurus in the institution, i.e., that they can become diksha-gurus previous to reaching uttama-adhikari?
Madhudvisa dasa says:
This is actually an old article. A few years old. There is a feminist faction in ISKCON always pushing for women gurus, women sannyasis, etc, etc… I do not follow what ISKCON is doing. So I have no idea how far down the path they have gone with this yet…
Karan gayadeen says:
Hare krsna if the sucession is contaminated then devotees will become inhuman and demonic there are no system to deal with concerns .
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Succession is not contaminated. Srila Prabhupada is living in his original books. Get them from:
https://krishnastore.com/books-srila-prabhupada-om-21_38.html
Totally 100% pure and uncontaminated Prabhupada. Stay away from contaminated ISKCON, take shelter of Srila Prabhupada in his pure original books. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Ravinder Verma says:
Hare Krsna Prabhu!
It is good to know that someone like you is still carrying out Srila Prabhupada’s original work. How can I associate with you? I mean personally. Do you visit India? If so, let me know any such plans. I would be very delighted.
Reply
Madhudvisa dasa says:
You can not associate with me personally, that is not my purpose. My purpose is to convince you that Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee of Krishna and that Srila Prabhupada is still living in his transcendental books and that you please get all of Srila Prabhupada’s original books from:
https://krishnastore.com
AND READ THEM AND follow the personal instructions Srila Prabhupada gives you as you read his books. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy
Edward Jackson says:
Which women are recognized as Gurus?
Madhudvisa dasa says:
So far none as far as I know. You would have to ask ISKCON this for a definitive answer, not me, I am not part of ISKCON.
Vinaik says:
Hare Krishna Prabhu though last part of your write-up regarding woman gurus is quite understandable.But their is self contradicting substance regarding working of GBC. At one part you are saying shelter of Prabhupad is priority. On the other hand you are mentioning complete freedom of Guru in his teachings as he wills. The GBC is presiding over the GURU system just to make shore that priority of Prabhpada teachings is maintained and the GURU in Iskcon is abiding in maintaining this primary function.If GURU is having total independence regarding his preaching then whole purpose of maintaining Prabhupda as founder acharya and siksha GURU of all will be defeated.
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Hare Krishna Vinaik
Prabhupada is the guru of ISKCON. So there is no room in ISKCON for other gurus. If someone is actually qualified guru then let him start his own preaching mission. That is the way since time immemorial. Guru has his own preaching mission. Guru is supposed to be a pure devotee of Krishna, supposed to be non-different from Krishna, supposed to be a transparent via-medium to Krishna, so if someone is actually a qualified guru then he is to be worshiped on the same level as Krishna. He can not be limited or regulated by the GBC who are admittedly a committee of conditioned souls.
So this whole ISKCON system, GBC, gurus, etc, has degenerated into something quite different from the Krishna consciousness taught to us by Srila Prabhupada. Today’s ISKCON is totally bogus, the ‘gurus’ who submit themselves to this system are completely unqualified and even if they are qualified they would be unable to guide and deliver their disciples because the GBC would interfere with that.
So yes, by definition, bona fide guru is non-different from Krishna, transparent via-medium to Krishna, and not subject to rules and regulations imposed by any GBC or other group. Bona fide guru is connected to Krishna and he forms his disciples connection to Krishna. That’s it. There’s no room for any GBC or any other body to interfere with that.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Filip says:
Hare Krishna prabhu. Am i wrong doing by serving in ISKCON farm to be able to follow sadhana set by Srila Prabhupad? I was out searching for community who know about the cheating of his disciples, but i failed and stopped following Srila Prabhupada consequently. Isn’t it better here?
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Yes, you have to stay in the place where you can follow the regulative principles and chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra and READ PPRABHUPADA’S books. If you know what Prabhupada is teaching us then you can test what devotees say and know if they are saying the correct things or not.
Sydney Hoffman says:
Hare Krsna! Is the Hare Krsna mahamantra effective only when you do find an initiating bona fide guru or not? Or even the female gurus? Prabhupada is our teacher, by reading his books. I didn’t think there were any bona-fide gurus that Prabhupada approved prior to his disappearance. Thank you! Haribol!
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Yes. Any mantra has to be received from a bona fide spiritual master for it to be effective. Srila Prabhupada is a bona fide spiritual master, so receive the Hare Krishna mantra from him. You can not get the Hare Krishna mantra from someone who is not a pure devotee of Krishna because he does not have the Hare Krishna mantra himself. He can not give what he does not have.
Krishna says:
Also one more thing…
Can you please tell me where can I find the original books written by prabhupada…. As I am in desperate need of it…. I have pdfs but I need to buy them since I can’t carry PDF everywhere and I like to read sleep with the Bhagavad Gita and that’s the only original hard copy that I have. Please help me. You are the only sane person I have found online for Krishna consciousness. And also I only use iskcon for Arati and to buy puja stuff otherwise I stay away. Like u said. Thankyou for letting us know that there are still some genuine devotees of lord Krishna out there.
Radhe Krishna.
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Hare Krishna Shaily. You can get Srila Prabhupada’s original books at:
https://krishnastore.com/books-srila-prabhupada-om-21_38.html
Krishna says:
@madhudvisa das,
Radhe Krishna,
Might I tell you and please don’t take it as an offence but neither do you have the opportunity to decide whether a woman can become a guru or not, not the iskcon.
Since as far as I remember prabhupada was appointed as the guru by lord Krishna so only Krishna has the authority to decide who will become a guru…. Mirabai might haven’t become a guru but she was certainly by people who knew her and we’re in contact with her.
Please don’t say unnecessary things here. I completely agree with your statement about GBC however I don’t agree with you on the fact that women can become gurus or not…. Since we are not the body and also gurumaa gargi was one of the famous gurus in a female body. Guru can only be a realized soul given the authority by lord Krishna himself. Therefore you and I have no business in deciding whether one can become a guru or not since like you said “we are not the body”.
Also I don’t know much about gadadhar dad swami of iskcon….. Is he following still prabhupada or chanakya Pandit? He is very male body friendly and also I understand that he is scared of women but nobody has given him the right to exploit women through humour by saying wrong things about them. He is generalizing women and that is against prabhpadas teachings. I hope you being in contact with iskcon or as ex member. I don’t know you well can say something about this to him. I think he thinks about women too much.
Has a woman ever broken his heart that bad that he is so much against women. Not all women are same and that is written in the Vedas too…. There are different types of women.
Besides no disrespect to chanakya Pandit but he was only a pandit or a vipra… I don’t think he was as great our guru srila prabhupada
Madhudvisa dasa says:
Hare Krishna!
Yes. Guru is guru. And if guru appears in woman’s body then she is guru. Vaisnava guru is identified by his symptoms. He is able to spread Krishna consciousness and make disciples all over the world. When an actual Vaisnava guru is preaching he is very obvious. It is like the sun rising in the sky. It dispels the darkness everywhere. So guru is guru. You can not make rules and regulations about it.
So the problem here is not that GBC wants to make women gurus, the point is GBC has no power to ‘make’ or ‘appoint’ gurus. Real guru is very rare and he appears by Krishna’s mercy and it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the GBC. So it does not matter what they say or do in regard to guru. They have no power in this area. The power is with Krishna and the pure devotees of Krishna.
Neelkanth says:
Hare Krishna Dandvat Pranaam to all !!
I met devotees who have accepted Srila Prabhupad as Guru and are taking Ritvik Initiation as per Srila Prabhupad’s July 9th 1977 letter …knows as Prabhupadanugas and Iam also observing disciples of current ISKCON guru’s. I found few from Prabhupadanugas also having politics,devotee co-operation not as per Srila Prabhupad’s instructions. At the same time, devotee co-operation in ISKCON may be better than Prabhupadanugas, also preaching reached to more number of youth and families compared to Prabhupadanugas. Can somebody guide with whom i should associate because we need devotee association….Iam struggling since last 7 years. Also my son , he needs Gurukula education as per Srila Prabhupad’s instruction to save him from the bad association and slaughterhouse education/culture from Karmi schools.
nyasi refused to teach anything & then this unknown person opened the scam .
Deepesh says:
I dont know which HELL they are going to suffer after they depart from this world… if i would have been there in Yamaraja’s place i would have given them some low animals body for a million years to suffer, for what they all have been doing… they have NO shame at all.. treating GURU (Srila Prabhupada) as an ordinary person.. no one ever can take his positions and what all plans they are making.. all Useless people… Simply take shelter of Srila Prabhupada & Krishna and Be Happy..
Jai Srila Prabhupada..
ravinder says:
January 3, 2010 at 4:34 pm
what is nonsense going in the minds of these devotees,how can they think like that? These all r cheap ways to enjoy a woman.These fallen gurus r cheating to people and pushing them and even many devotees lives to hell.But this is not going to work.They will we cursed by Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.
ONLY SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE REAL GURU !!!
THAT’S IT! THAT’S IT! THAT’S IT!
JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA!
RRDD says:
I am spiting on every step that Rohini Suta and Harikes Svamy stepped on Slavian Countries. Two of them have been performing third reich tactic activity while they have been visiting Slavian Countries with the years.
Madhudvisa dasa
My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
It Has Always Been Clear to Me that Prabhuapda’s Books Should Never be Changed… →
No One–Not Even Darwin–Can Be Independent [Prabhupada Speaks Out] →
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SATSVARUPA ON MAY 28th 1977
HENRY DOKTORSKI:
May 28, 1977: On this date in history 46 years ago, senior disciples meet with Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to discuss how initiations of new disciples are to be conducted in the future.(Gold, Guns and God, Vol. 3, p. 203, Eleven Naked Emperors, p 30)
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