PADA: Yes, Bhaktivedanta Sagar Maharaja and / or his mentor BV Narayan Maharaja wanted to make NM's "monkeys" i.e. illicit sex with men, women and children deviants -- into acharyas -- so as "not to stop the parampara." They did not seem to realize that by so doing, they stopped the parampara.
Meanwhile the followers of NM are proclaiming themselves to be diksha gurus, equals to Jesus, who can absorb sins. I think a devotee is supposed to be more humble than a blade of grass, and not self-appointing oneself as the next messiah and Jesus, sum total of the demigods, God's successor no less?
But there is friction among the NM messiahs / guru group, because even they do not believe all of their gurus are pure devotees among themselves. Meanwhile, they have never explained why Narayan Maharaja has supported a monkey / illicit sex / pedophile / drunks / porno swami guru process in the first place?
ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
PADA: Yes, Janananda was one of the people who told me that he thinks I am wrong to oppose Jayatirtha being the acharya, when he was having affairs with disciples and he was offering LSD to the shalagram. Janananda supported having me removed and Jayatirtha staying as the acharya. In other words, he wanted my children to worship debauchees as their messiahs. So if there are ten billion people who think it is a good idea to equate acharyas and debauchees, that will never make it a fact. ys pd
==============
ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM
SD: To me the elephant in the room is the GBC is allowing and promoting, by their total silence, the publicly self-admitted felonious pedophile Lokanath in silencing Saraswati and Damodara by his bogus spurious lawsuit to not discuss arguably the current biggest child abuse scandal.
I understand there are basically two categories of posters on this forum. One who think ISKCON is too corrupt for reformation currently and are merely warning others. The second who actively are engaged in ISKCON and believe reformation and accountability are possible.
My intention in posting this is to hear what tangible actions devotees that want to be involved in are going to do to hold the GBC responsible. Apparently all of the GBC are delighted that the bogus lawsuit has silenced discussion on this topic. It makes their jobs and glaring hypocrisy so much easier.
lokanath.net
PADA: I think ISKCON has long ago given up on appeasing the Western devotees. They kicked most of them out -- and see them now as a sort of nuisance of disgruntled renegades. One guru told my friend he has to preach in the Baltics and Russia and never come to the USA "to avoid the angry mobs." We are just an angry mob that interferes with their main business, handing everything off to the Hindus and making new age motivation yoga camps, women doing yoga exercise in yoga pants etc.
There has only ever been one official debate authorised by the full GBC regarding the "guru issue", or what should have happened in ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure. This was the debate organised by Martin Luther University, Germany, between the IRM and the GBC. For this debate, the GBC chose Krishna Kirti Dasa ("KKD") to represent it, and the full debate was published by the university as a book. This book is available on request, and the ebook is also available on our website.
KKD has now been selected again to officially represent ISKCON in regard to a debate. This time, it is on behalf of ISKCON India via the ISKCON India Scholars Board ("IISB"), of which he is the convenor. The IISB is ISKCON India's body of supposed brahminical advisors. Thus, on behalf of the IISB, KKD recently issued a "challenge" to the chairperson of the GBC's Sastric Advisory Council ("SAC"), Urmila Devi Dasi ("UDD"), regarding the issue of female diksa gurus ("FDG"):
"The ISKCON India Scholars Board formally challenges the Sastric Advisory Council to a public sastrartha*, refereed and judged by learned scholars agreeable to both sides, with regard to the adhikara of women to become acarya ("diksha-guru")."
(KKD Letter on behalf of IISB, 7/8/22)
*Means debate based on sastra.
The SAC is basically the GBC's version of ISKCON India's IISB.
Debater's self-defeat
As stated at the outset, KKD himself was previously involved in a debate defending GBC diksa gurus on behalf of the GBC. However, he failed to defend them, as we clearly demonstrated in our rebuttal to his GBC authorised paper which can be viewed here. In this previous debate, KKD argued for successor diksa gurus to Srila Prabhupada, a position the IISB agrees with, and that the following quote is his evidence for this argument:
"Remarks such as
At the same time, I shall request them all to become spiritual master. Every one of you should be spiritual master next -- continue to be problematic for the hard ritviks."
But this quote KKD supplied from Srila Prabhupada would apply equally to all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, both male and female – as Srila Prabhupada states that his request is directed to all and every single one of his disciples, since he uses the words: "them all"/"every one of you". Thus, by KKD claiming that the above quote is evidence that Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to become diksa gurus, KKD is accepting that Srila Prabhupada ordered FDG.
JC: I know what you mean Prabhu. But... The defence of a child abusing guru was done by a cabal of Indian devotees because us Westerners did not understand your 'Indian ways'. I thought this was the most libelous slander of a noble Indian culture imaginable. But many of your countrymen bought it hook, line and sinker.
Please mobilise your Indian friends to join with us to kick this contamination out of iskcon, or go down in history as defending it.
KJ: They really think they are the ones keeping Iskcon going and expanding. They’re proud to say; 2,500 temples, hundred thousand disciples world-wide,
year after year, with their edited, changed books continuously being altered & distributed, all the while keeping on with their concoctions for profit, adoration and distinction. They don’t look at the negative, “it’s maya” & with the blind followers supporting them, nothing will ever change in centralised Iskcon incorporated.
SD: To me the elephant in the room is the GBC is allowing and promoting, by their total silence, the publicly self-admitted felonious pedophile Lokanath in silencing Saraswati and Damodara by his bogus spurious lawsuit to not discuss arguably the current biggest child abuse scandal.
I understand there are basically two categories of posters on this forum. One who think ISKCON is too corrupt for reformation currently and are merely warning others. The second who actively are engaged in ISKCON and believe reformation and accountability are possible.
My intention in posting this is to hear what tangible actions devotees that want to be involved in are going to do to hold the GBC responsible. Apparently all of the GBC are delighted that the bogus lawsuit has silenced discussion on this topic. It makes their jobs and glaring hypocrisy so much easier.
lokanath.net
PADA: I think ISKCON has long ago given up on appeasing the Western devotees. They kicked most of them out -- and see them now as a sort of nuisance of disgruntled renegades. One guru told my friend he has to preach in the Baltics and Russia and never come to the USA "to avoid the angry mobs." We are just an angry mob that interferes with their main business, handing everything off to the Hindus and making new age motivation yoga camps, women doing yoga exercise in yoga pants etc.
Even way back in the 1980s Jayapataka was sending Bengalis to do the poojas in USA temples, because they had removed most of the Western ones. Recently the woman who was still placing Kirtanananda photos on the altars was exposed, and New Vrndavana said that is because there is a shortage of poojaris, so they had to use and allow her. They ran everyone off pretty much, they don't want or need us. So they are really not focused much on the angry mob of Western devotees, which is bad news but also good news, it means we are free to operate pretty much out of their interference and radar.
At the same time we still have to expose them because they do have some nominal powers here, and growing powers in India, and they are still a peril to children, here and everywhere else. And moreover, they are misrepresenting Krishna. A reform movement is needed to address their exploiting, and also a parallel movement is needed to eventually replace them. The growing consensus is, they cannot be reformed because they have no intent of that happening. ys pd
=================
=================
IRM Back To Prabhupada, Issue 74, Vol. 3, 2022
There has only ever been one official debate authorised by the full GBC regarding the "guru issue", or what should have happened in ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure. This was the debate organised by Martin Luther University, Germany, between the IRM and the GBC. For this debate, the GBC chose Krishna Kirti Dasa ("KKD") to represent it, and the full debate was published by the university as a book. This book is available on request, and the ebook is also available on our website.
KKD has now been selected again to officially represent ISKCON in regard to a debate. This time, it is on behalf of ISKCON India via the ISKCON India Scholars Board ("IISB"), of which he is the convenor. The IISB is ISKCON India's body of supposed brahminical advisors. Thus, on behalf of the IISB, KKD recently issued a "challenge" to the chairperson of the GBC's Sastric Advisory Council ("SAC"), Urmila Devi Dasi ("UDD"), regarding the issue of female diksa gurus ("FDG"):
"The ISKCON India Scholars Board formally challenges the Sastric Advisory Council to a public sastrartha*, refereed and judged by learned scholars agreeable to both sides, with regard to the adhikara of women to become acarya ("diksha-guru")."
(KKD Letter on behalf of IISB, 7/8/22)
*Means debate based on sastra.
The SAC is basically the GBC's version of ISKCON India's IISB.
Debater's self-defeat
As stated at the outset, KKD himself was previously involved in a debate defending GBC diksa gurus on behalf of the GBC. However, he failed to defend them, as we clearly demonstrated in our rebuttal to his GBC authorised paper which can be viewed here. In this previous debate, KKD argued for successor diksa gurus to Srila Prabhupada, a position the IISB agrees with, and that the following quote is his evidence for this argument:
"Remarks such as
At the same time, I shall request them all to become spiritual master. Every one of you should be spiritual master next -- continue to be problematic for the hard ritviks."
But this quote KKD supplied from Srila Prabhupada would apply equally to all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, both male and female – as Srila Prabhupada states that his request is directed to all and every single one of his disciples, since he uses the words: "them all"/"every one of you". Thus, by KKD claiming that the above quote is evidence that Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to become diksa gurus, KKD is accepting that Srila Prabhupada ordered FDG.
And, therefore, he has already rebutted his anti-FDG position against the GBC and hence would lose any debate with the GBC's SAC! Thus, these quotes are actually "problematic" for KKD! (We have previously shown that, in reality, in these quotes Srila Prabhupada is not asking every single one of his many thousands of disciples to become diksa gurus, but qualified siksa gurus, preaching on his behalf. For example, see BTP 45 article "Srila Prabhupada's Guru Order".)
IISB's double standards
KKD was initiated by HH Hridayananda Dasa Goswami ("HD") who gave KKD his initiated name which he still uses. However, as we covered in BTP 23 (QNN, "GBC Spokesman Against IRM Dumps Guru"), KKD rejected HD as his guru:
"for many years I have been an initiated disciple of Hridayananda Goswami. However, on account of recent news of his blessing of homosexual nuptials and his less-than-straightforward response to the devotee community about his involvement, I have formally ended my relationship with him as his disciple."
(KKD, 15/2/09)
However, KKD has also written a paper on behalf of the IISB trying to justify that HH Lokanath Swami ("LOK") should be allowed to maintain his diksa guru position in spite of his having signed a letter admitting to having sexually abused a minor whilst he was a diksa guru (see previous article). This paper titled "Vedic Jurisprudence and Atonement" claims:
"There is no mention of removing a person (Vaisnava) from the position of guruship, even for sins as heinous as brahmahatya, and even a sin such as brahmahatya does not necessarily mean that a guru is no longer bona fide."
The heinous sin of "brahmahatya" refers to killing a brahmana. So, in order to support LOK not being removed as diksa guru, IISB claims that one cannot be removed as a guru and can remain bona fide even if he commits really heinous sins such as killing a brahmana, thus also exempting one from being removed as a guru for the sexual abuse of a minor. But the IISB has not objected to KKD, its convener, considering HD to no longer be a bona fide guru and thus removing HD from guruship of himself for doing something which they are not even claiming was anywhere remotely close to being a "sin as heinous" as killing a brahmana. Therefore, the IISB:
a) Supports deviant gurus being unremovable and considered bona fide if the guru is LOK, but not in another case. This is a double standard;
b) Promotes the idea that deviant gurus may be bona fide gurus when Srila Prabhupada clearly states that a bona fide guru would never deviate in the first place:
"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord"
(Bg., 4.42, purport)
Conclusion
In the "debate" challenge sent by IISB to the SAC mentioned at the outset, it also accuses the SAC of having "deficiencies in its own scholarship". However, as we have shown:
1) The IISB convener has already lost this FDG "debate" before it has begun;
2) The IISB is exposed supporting a pro-deviant guru philosophy that is both inconsistent and opposed to Srila Prabhupada's teachings. And in the last issue, in the article "The Failure of ISKCON India's "Scholars"", we showed the IISB talking contradictory nonsense where it rejected evidence from both Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON India itself!
Thus, the IISB also needs to get its own "scholarship" in order!
Both sides in the FDG debate have continually been exposed by the IRM failing in trying to justify how they can replace Srila Prabhupada – whether with male, female or deviant gurus!
============
IISB's double standards
KKD was initiated by HH Hridayananda Dasa Goswami ("HD") who gave KKD his initiated name which he still uses. However, as we covered in BTP 23 (QNN, "GBC Spokesman Against IRM Dumps Guru"), KKD rejected HD as his guru:
"for many years I have been an initiated disciple of Hridayananda Goswami. However, on account of recent news of his blessing of homosexual nuptials and his less-than-straightforward response to the devotee community about his involvement, I have formally ended my relationship with him as his disciple."
(KKD, 15/2/09)
However, KKD has also written a paper on behalf of the IISB trying to justify that HH Lokanath Swami ("LOK") should be allowed to maintain his diksa guru position in spite of his having signed a letter admitting to having sexually abused a minor whilst he was a diksa guru (see previous article). This paper titled "Vedic Jurisprudence and Atonement" claims:
"There is no mention of removing a person (Vaisnava) from the position of guruship, even for sins as heinous as brahmahatya, and even a sin such as brahmahatya does not necessarily mean that a guru is no longer bona fide."
The heinous sin of "brahmahatya" refers to killing a brahmana. So, in order to support LOK not being removed as diksa guru, IISB claims that one cannot be removed as a guru and can remain bona fide even if he commits really heinous sins such as killing a brahmana, thus also exempting one from being removed as a guru for the sexual abuse of a minor. But the IISB has not objected to KKD, its convener, considering HD to no longer be a bona fide guru and thus removing HD from guruship of himself for doing something which they are not even claiming was anywhere remotely close to being a "sin as heinous" as killing a brahmana. Therefore, the IISB:
a) Supports deviant gurus being unremovable and considered bona fide if the guru is LOK, but not in another case. This is a double standard;
b) Promotes the idea that deviant gurus may be bona fide gurus when Srila Prabhupada clearly states that a bona fide guru would never deviate in the first place:
"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord"
(Bg., 4.42, purport)
Conclusion
In the "debate" challenge sent by IISB to the SAC mentioned at the outset, it also accuses the SAC of having "deficiencies in its own scholarship". However, as we have shown:
1) The IISB convener has already lost this FDG "debate" before it has begun;
2) The IISB is exposed supporting a pro-deviant guru philosophy that is both inconsistent and opposed to Srila Prabhupada's teachings. And in the last issue, in the article "The Failure of ISKCON India's "Scholars"", we showed the IISB talking contradictory nonsense where it rejected evidence from both Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON India itself!
Thus, the IISB also needs to get its own "scholarship" in order!
Both sides in the FDG debate have continually been exposed by the IRM failing in trying to justify how they can replace Srila Prabhupada – whether with male, female or deviant gurus!
============
WHAT LEADERSHIP?
DD: Do ISKCON’s leaders, in good conscience, notice all the people that they have alienated, discouraged in their Krishna consciousness and driven to the edges of the movement (and beyond) and not feel an ounce of responsibility or guilt?
Do they not join the dots? Do they simply blame others for the disengagement - ignoring Prabhupada’s 50:50 assessment? Are they just unaware or simply don’t care?
Perhaps they think that the buildings they erect somehow offset the harm they’ve done. Or other external symbols of accomplishment. Personally I see it as a travesty that there is seemingly zero awareness and concern. Perhaps they are just having such a good time, enjoying the perks of privilege, the lifestyles, the adoring flocks…..
Prabhupada spoke of crying when he became aware of someone leaving…..
What a contrast!
D Dasi: They do not realize because they are after an ever increasing following, mainly in India.
DD: Yes, an increase in numbers is one metric. But Prabhupada spoke of quality over quantity. If thinking and mature people disengage and all that is left is young impressionable and less discerning fans……. then what are we to make of that.
If we lose subsequent generations of people born into the movement, then what does that say about the movement’s health…? If we have exclusive appeal amongst the Indian diaspora and cease to have any relevance to people from other demographics then what to make of that?
K Dasi: I agree. I don't think they see that though, at least not as a general body. Or they do see it and don't care.
DD: AG made an interesting observation recently - about incentives. In their own lived experience, everything’s going great. So they have no incentive to change and every incentive to keep things exactly as they are. Wherever they go as individuals, worshippers throng to hang on their every word. Their lifestyles are on a par with the average multi-millionaire.
It’s a bit like the fallacy of the prosperity gospel. “Hey, I must be in great consciousness. Look how much facility Krishna is giving me. Others are only failed and envious.”
BG: Keep up the good work and keep doing your best. However don't bring in any wedges, and divide Indian Diaspora etc. Don't identify with the body "American", "European", "Indian", Black, Brown, Yellow, White, Red etc skin colours.
That will not bring any auspiciousness. It's more difficult to make an Indian into a Gaudiya, than Westerner? Or easier? It's even more difficult to unlearn and then teach. Anyway that topic for another day. But don't politicise, Indian devotees follow blindly, and support GBC kind of sweeping statements.
There are all sorts of people at all levels in volunteering and religious organizations. We encourage everyone to join. So it's bound to happen some people will relapse to old habits. Let's propose some short term, medium term, long term , preventive and permanent corrective actions.
Let there be one definition "Devotee", no Indian Devotee, Western Devotee etc,...
Ofcourse for identification, for understanding, even in Caitanya Caritamrita, they are identified as Bengali Devotees, Odiya Devotees et al, that is for identification purposes. Otherwise Devotee is a Devotee is a Devotee.
DD: Do ISKCON’s leaders, in good conscience, notice all the people that they have alienated, discouraged in their Krishna consciousness and driven to the edges of the movement (and beyond) and not feel an ounce of responsibility or guilt?
Do they not join the dots? Do they simply blame others for the disengagement - ignoring Prabhupada’s 50:50 assessment? Are they just unaware or simply don’t care?
Perhaps they think that the buildings they erect somehow offset the harm they’ve done. Or other external symbols of accomplishment. Personally I see it as a travesty that there is seemingly zero awareness and concern. Perhaps they are just having such a good time, enjoying the perks of privilege, the lifestyles, the adoring flocks…..
Prabhupada spoke of crying when he became aware of someone leaving…..
What a contrast!
D Dasi: They do not realize because they are after an ever increasing following, mainly in India.
DD: Yes, an increase in numbers is one metric. But Prabhupada spoke of quality over quantity. If thinking and mature people disengage and all that is left is young impressionable and less discerning fans……. then what are we to make of that.
If we lose subsequent generations of people born into the movement, then what does that say about the movement’s health…? If we have exclusive appeal amongst the Indian diaspora and cease to have any relevance to people from other demographics then what to make of that?
K Dasi: I agree. I don't think they see that though, at least not as a general body. Or they do see it and don't care.
DD: AG made an interesting observation recently - about incentives. In their own lived experience, everything’s going great. So they have no incentive to change and every incentive to keep things exactly as they are. Wherever they go as individuals, worshippers throng to hang on their every word. Their lifestyles are on a par with the average multi-millionaire.
It’s a bit like the fallacy of the prosperity gospel. “Hey, I must be in great consciousness. Look how much facility Krishna is giving me. Others are only failed and envious.”
BG: Keep up the good work and keep doing your best. However don't bring in any wedges, and divide Indian Diaspora etc. Don't identify with the body "American", "European", "Indian", Black, Brown, Yellow, White, Red etc skin colours.
That will not bring any auspiciousness. It's more difficult to make an Indian into a Gaudiya, than Westerner? Or easier? It's even more difficult to unlearn and then teach. Anyway that topic for another day. But don't politicise, Indian devotees follow blindly, and support GBC kind of sweeping statements.
There are all sorts of people at all levels in volunteering and religious organizations. We encourage everyone to join. So it's bound to happen some people will relapse to old habits. Let's propose some short term, medium term, long term , preventive and permanent corrective actions.
Let there be one definition "Devotee", no Indian Devotee, Western Devotee etc,...
Ofcourse for identification, for understanding, even in Caitanya Caritamrita, they are identified as Bengali Devotees, Odiya Devotees et al, that is for identification purposes. Otherwise Devotee is a Devotee is a Devotee.
JC: I know what you mean Prabhu. But... The defence of a child abusing guru was done by a cabal of Indian devotees because us Westerners did not understand your 'Indian ways'. I thought this was the most libelous slander of a noble Indian culture imaginable. But many of your countrymen bought it hook, line and sinker.
Please mobilise your Indian friends to join with us to kick this contamination out of iskcon, or go down in history as defending it.
KJ: They really think they are the ones keeping Iskcon going and expanding. They’re proud to say; 2,500 temples, hundred thousand disciples world-wide,
year after year, with their edited, changed books continuously being altered & distributed, all the while keeping on with their concoctions for profit, adoration and distinction. They don’t look at the negative, “it’s maya” & with the blind followers supporting them, nothing will ever change in centralised Iskcon incorporated.
KK: I don't think they care. As long as they are good and their needs are being met, plenty money, worship etc. And it's a known fact that when quality is missing then quantity will suffice... hence the big buildings, this preoccupation with ever new and bigger buildings is an indication of their mentality which is focused on the externals.
ML: What is Srila Prabhupada’s 50:50 assessment?
DD: He opined that, if people leave, it is often partly the leaver’s own responsibility and partly leadership’s. Of course when 95% leave, we might ask what the leaders are doing.
DM: This is a question I've been grappling with for a long time. Do the leaders understand the fallout? The answer is no. Professional golfers think the whole world is a country club and ISKCONs leaders, by the nature of their approach, don't understand the plight of most would be members of the society because they are preoccupied with whoever remains. Disaffected people don't send travel invitations or buy you plane tickets.
EM: I am sure they see the fallout, but being stuck on the lowest common denominator, as was pointed out by Nrsimhananda das in the latest podcast and being largely incompetent, the show is going on. As the saying in France goes : Après nous le déluge! Unless there is a well-organized counter offensive by the fallout community, the organizational politics of Iskcon will continue to be chaotic and destructive.
BR: There are two distinct groups who leave. Those who join, and those who are born inside the movement. Its a travesty this continues and has been un-noticed for the best part of 50 years.
SD: The leadership knows exactly what it's doing. It has been this way since at least 1973 when I started visiting the temples. They are only interested in persons that accept the way they behave, that are easy to manipulate and control, and lack much ability to discriminate or investigate.
Look at the quality of people that are involved in ISKCON and what they accept for behavior in their leadership. The information was readily available from any perfunctory research at a library since the anticult movement started in the mid 1970s and has been available with the tap of a keyboard since the internet was founded. The type of people that are attracted and support iskcon choose not to exercise their own powers of investigation and discrimination.
GS: I heard one GBC said better to focus on new devotees. But new ones are not stupid. They will soon see corruption.
ML: What is Srila Prabhupada’s 50:50 assessment?
DD: He opined that, if people leave, it is often partly the leaver’s own responsibility and partly leadership’s. Of course when 95% leave, we might ask what the leaders are doing.
DM: This is a question I've been grappling with for a long time. Do the leaders understand the fallout? The answer is no. Professional golfers think the whole world is a country club and ISKCONs leaders, by the nature of their approach, don't understand the plight of most would be members of the society because they are preoccupied with whoever remains. Disaffected people don't send travel invitations or buy you plane tickets.
EM: I am sure they see the fallout, but being stuck on the lowest common denominator, as was pointed out by Nrsimhananda das in the latest podcast and being largely incompetent, the show is going on. As the saying in France goes : Après nous le déluge! Unless there is a well-organized counter offensive by the fallout community, the organizational politics of Iskcon will continue to be chaotic and destructive.
BR: There are two distinct groups who leave. Those who join, and those who are born inside the movement. Its a travesty this continues and has been un-noticed for the best part of 50 years.
SD: The leadership knows exactly what it's doing. It has been this way since at least 1973 when I started visiting the temples. They are only interested in persons that accept the way they behave, that are easy to manipulate and control, and lack much ability to discriminate or investigate.
Look at the quality of people that are involved in ISKCON and what they accept for behavior in their leadership. The information was readily available from any perfunctory research at a library since the anticult movement started in the mid 1970s and has been available with the tap of a keyboard since the internet was founded. The type of people that are attracted and support iskcon choose not to exercise their own powers of investigation and discrimination.
GS: I heard one GBC said better to focus on new devotees. But new ones are not stupid. They will soon see corruption.
S Dasi: You can find the answer to all these questions and speculations about why GBC works the way it does in the book by Dhanesvara prabhu Divine or demoniac - when a person reads it, everything is clear to him.
https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Demoniac.../dp/1733774440
Divine Or Demoniac?: Spiritual Movements and the Enemies Within
AMAZON.COM
DB: ........Then the best still go on an do great things anyway? ........... while agreeing with the above totally, Jayaa Prabhupada
AD: I shortened the quote by two words. When you promote the WRONG people you lose your BEST people.
https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Demoniac.../dp/1733774440
Divine Or Demoniac?: Spiritual Movements and the Enemies Within
AMAZON.COM
DB: ........Then the best still go on an do great things anyway? ........... while agreeing with the above totally, Jayaa Prabhupada
AD: I shortened the quote by two words. When you promote the WRONG people you lose your BEST people.
ND: When trees have an airborne incurable disease its foundations are unsafe + being situated in a public place, then they are removed. Otherwise the one tree may be a catalyst to infect forests of millions of trees, also adversely infecting the soil for new generations of trees.
VD: The GBC, in all its incarnations, simply doesn't care. As long as the adulation and money rolls along nicely, that's it, job done.
RR: May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'PASTOR, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU YOU ARE A MAN OF GOD RIGHT? BUT WHY IS IT THAT WHEN YOU NEED MONEY YOU COME ΤΟ US BUT WHEN WE NEED, YOU SEND US TO GOD?'
VD: The GBC, in all its incarnations, simply doesn't care. As long as the adulation and money rolls along nicely, that's it, job done.
RR: May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'PASTOR, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU YOU ARE A MAN OF GOD RIGHT? BUT WHY IS IT THAT WHEN YOU NEED MONEY YOU COME ΤΟ US BUT WHEN WE NEED, YOU SEND US TO GOD?'
PADA: Except the India ICC said I am a bogus mleccha because I do not worship their illicit sex with men, women and children messiah's club. One devotee here just now said these ICC clowns have produced a "butt sex sampradaya" which "smells like a rancid anus." Which explains why their temples are nearly empty of Western people. So anyone who does not worship the people attracted to their rancid smelling anus sex messiahs program is - a mleccha? And these are the scholars from India?
That makes no sense?
They clearly support a program that has had an epidemic of anus sex, even with children, and that is what they are attracted to -- mainly in India -- because we Westerners are rejecting that program, almost wholesale. Many of the molesters in Mayapur were India devotees, albeit trained by the homosexual pedophile messiah's club originally from the West.
First of all, the ICC has never explained to us, why are they promoting a rancid anus smelling guru parampara in the first place, and why would anyone come up and have to tell me -- that process is what these ICC folks have produced? And what does their rancid smelling anus guru parampara have anything to do with Krishna and pure rasika etc. and why are they juxtaposing these items?
The India ICC scholars cannot distinguish a rancid smelling anus sex guru parampara, from the real parampara, but we in WEST can easily see -- this is a deviation, and a mighty smelly one at that! Yep, this devotee is correct, the Westerners have left ISKCON in droves, because they smell this thing from miles away! ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
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PP: Are you saying that Indians are so stupid that they accept the rule of American men as their Gurus to throw all their money at thus why these white bodied gurus dont want white and colored devotees around who are non hindus ?
PADA: I am saying that 99.9 percent of my help since 1978 is coming from the Western cops, media, courts, FEDS, and so on. And they helped me all along and still do. And the Western media folks liked me all along and now want to put me on a big TV show again in the fall etc. Whereas, who are the main current hold outs? The main people calling me a bogus Western Mleccha -- right now -- and supporting the idea that deviants are often acharyas -- are the people like those from the India ICC bureau etc.
There is good news however, my blog is recently having India as number one readers / viewers, perhaps they are catching up. At the same time, the main organized opponents of the GBC are the Bangalore group, and they are also Indians, and they are supporting me and my views, especially my view that deviants are not, were not, could not have been God's successors, so not all of them are falling for bad ideas, but some of them are.
At the same time India is a place where Srila Prabhupada told us "it is a bogus guru factory," so there is a trend and tendency for them to fall for false gurus, swamis, yogis, avatars etc. And therefore it is a good place to go if you want to exploit others by making yourself a big swami, yogi, avatar etc. When we were in India we visited a big swami on a giant seat who was being offered USA Marlboro cigarettes and golden lighters on a big table, and Srila Prabhupada swished his hands down, "don't say anything." ys pd
LD: These Narayana people haven't a clue ... how much damage they have done to so many people -- with their idea that we need to worship their bogus GBC's monkeys and pedos gurus as Krishna's acharyas. They are worried the parampara will stop, but their pedo gurus idea has made the whole ISKCON into a bankrupt ghost town.
ReplyDeleteThey stopped ISKCON dead in its tracks. All of the best samkirtana devotees, book distributors, and nice devotees, nearly all gone. They were all kicked out to make way for their bogus and pedo acharyas. Everyone and every thing has to stop so a bogus cult can be formed to worship them.
And everything has been stopped. And now ISKCON is in the grave yard ... basically. And they are fighting to keep a few pieces of the dead carcass still. Narayana Maharaja came to ISKCON with nothing and he knew ... if he supports Tamal and their pedos gurus, he will have a big following.
And he just could not stop himself ... and he went for the gold, the power and prestige, and pooja, and he lost Krishna along the way. And so has ISKCON. They are still walking around saying we stopped the paramara, when they did. And thousands of people suffered ... and especially the children ... their system exploited everyone ... even children were not saved.
In short. They are disgusting people. They destroyed thousands of devotee's lives and thousands of children's lives ... and yet they are still saying they saved ISKCON. They ONLY saved their pedo guru system ... nothing more ... and not ISKCON.
And they will go to the planets where people who save pedo guru systems end up. We took ISKCON to the grave ... and that is how we saved it. Like lending your car to your drunk uncle, he totals the car, and then he comes in ... "I saved your car." No, the car is destroyed.
You Narayana people sat with Tamal and pushed the car's gas pedal to the floor, as the car went off a cliff. And many people went to the gave, and their suffering is on you.
We did not stop ISKCON ... and drive it off the cliff. You did. And you are disgusting people trying to blame us for your crashed car problem, that you were helping Tamal steer and drive. And go faster and faster. Right before the end ...