Misusing Power / Free Will / + VIDEOS / 05 21

PADA: The right use of power is first of all, to not enable corrupt people to take over our society and create a haven for crooks, criminals, molesters and deviants posing as our messiahs, and our children's messiahs. Otherwise, we are implicated in the downfall of our society and the resultant abuse of victims etc. 

Self-evidently, the children of ISKCON were not properly protected because the people with [especially] managerial powers have mis-used those powers to protect the wrong system, and they suppressed us and / or attempts at correcting their deviant system. 

And these types of problem persists because many of the abusers / or their enablers are still floating around in many cases, because the -- powers that be -- have not corrected the issue. Therefore it is up to us to apply our powers to correct all this, at least to what extent we can. If nothing else, we can vote with our feet and withdraw support.

For example, the Euro GBC officially banned Lokanath, but his devotees are still placing his photos on the altars in Europe. He should not be worshiped by children, therefore, let us put his photo on the altar -- and have our children worship him. That means we are empowering the problem. That is misusing power.

AD: Can anyone explain to me why should the GBC ban a person for being a child molester, not visiting, but at the same time allowing his followers to put his photo on temple altar and worship him as good as God? I saw yesterday in local so called temple here in EU his photo direct next to SP. 

Why banned to come, but allowed to be worshiped as good as God? This smells like mundane politics to me and has nothing to do with children protection or statement about the official GBC rules in ISKCON / Iskcon EU or beyond. If we should not worship child molesters, that should be applicable worldwide and not one area, and then they do not even follow in that one area. This is all politics and hypocrisy, one of the elements of Kali Yuga.

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

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Syamasundara dāsa: Freud also investigated the problem of anxiety, which he said was produced when the impulses of the id threaten to overpower the rational ego and the moral superego.

Śrīla Prabhupāda said: Anxiety will continue as long as one is in the material condition. No one can be free from anxiety in conditioned life.

Syamasundara dāsa: Is it because our desires are always frustrated?

Śrīla Prabhupāda said: Yes. Your desires must be frustrated because you desire something that is not permanent. Suppose I wish to live forever, but since I have accepted a material body, there is no question of living forever. Therefore I am always anxious that death will come. I am afraid of death, when the body will be destroyed. This is the cause of all anxiety: acceptance of something impermanent as permanent.

The Journey of Self-Discovery-His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

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FREE WILL

PADA: Someone was mentioning to me that many devotees lost their ability to discriminate, and thereby -- essentially lost their free will, by surrendering to the false GBC gurus. And because many devotees had low self-esteem, and / or a general lack of motivation to act independently, the GBC exploited them and got them to sign onto the false guru process. 

However, a devotee has to maintain one's free will and act independently, or one can get sucked into all sorts of deviations. This also explains why so many people knew children were getting treated badly -- perhaps even brutally -- but they would not go to the police. They could not discriminate proper action, and did not realize that their inaction was in fact -- de facto -- a type of action, or lack of reaction, which has been enabling further abuse.  

We cannot simply give up our freedom to act independently to a false authority, or we lose our freedom, that is what we concluded. 

ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com

A Devotee: ON FREE WILL

The correct understanding of free will, surrender and genuine loving voluntary exchanges and reciprocation between devotees, is not maturely understood during these early pioneering years within ISKCON.

The subject of free will, surrender and loving exchanges is often misunderstood, ignored or overlooked. Many over the years have foolishly claimed that "surrendering" to Krsna means giving up your "free will" and self expression in the spiritual world, and let Krsna do all the thinking for you eternally like a puppet is controlled be strings.

I eventually learnt that such mindless philosophy was dangerous nonsense because if we have no free will, then we are no better than dead stone and such philosophy is really impersonalism. The following quotes are from Srila Prabhupada regarding surrender, free will and love: -

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love?" (Teheran, Iran, Aug 9th, 1976)

Real love or Bhakti is a two-way street based on selfless devotion to God.
Loving expressions on the highest level is achieved by volunteering to work or serve in Krsna's plan under the instructions of a His bonafide spiritual master.
And by helping the spiritual Master bring back all the fallen jiva-souls trapped in this mundane material creation, and encourage them to return back home, back to Godhead.

Choosing to serve the servants of the servants of the servants of Krsna is the highest expression of selflessness and love of God. But first one must understand who they really are as an individual jiva-soul, which is NOT the material bodily vessel they are covered by within the material world, but the eternal individual jiva-soul (spiritual personality) within the material body.

In their full spiritual bodily potential, the jiva-souls are eternal servants of God (Krsna), who perpetually have free will in the spiritual world that had no beginning point and will never end. Each jiva-soul eternally have their own independent unique individual identity and personality separate from Krsna's Personality eternally. 

Loving relationships are always a "two-way" street based on reciprocation, loving exchanges and voluntary participation in the Kingdom of God. The expression of real love or service is never a slave domineering mindless one-way "master/ slave servant" relationship in the spiritual world that only destroys one's free will, sense of individual personality (self) that allows one to voluntarily offer their choices, and select who they want to be in both Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

In the spiritual world ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.

Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

The individual jiva-souls are collectively known as Krsna's “marginal energy.”
This marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls, have NO origin.

The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin nor will they ever cease to be.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.

Marginal means in-between.

In actual fact, the jiva-souls are in-between the spiritual energy (realm) and the material energy (realm), this is why they are called marginal (in-between). So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls come from, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls who were never created and have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains. Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means. It is NOT some place in outer space jiva-souls are generated from.

Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti and the impersonal brahmajyoti that foolish sangas (religious cults) and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.

Being "marginal" means in-between and includes having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.

There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. 

But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”

This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-

Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created. This is because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-

Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity.
Therefore, jiva-souls do NOT originate from the so called marginal plane if one thinks it is some place.

The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained as follows by Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of eating, sleeping, mating, defending.

The human species are also directed by karmic reactions (the reactions to their pious and impious actions) because in the human material bodily form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.

Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)

No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality, sense of self, character and personality when engaging in loving exchanges with Krsna.

In Goloka-Vrindavana there must always be reciprocation between the jiva-soul and Krsna. Loving exchanges must always exist, so the jiva souls naturally express their own unique personality and sense of independent self while choosing to serve Krsna.

The fact is each jiva-soul has their own unique individuality that eternally allows them to make their own personal offerings and choices while serving Krsna or Visnu in the spiritual world.

Such free will is the basic make up and foundation of every marginal living entity's (jiva-soul) unique independent character and personality in both Goloka-Vrindavan and Vaikuntha.

Otherwise without free will one is just dead stone Srila Prabhupada tells us.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "In Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me. Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that."(Washington D.C. July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupāda - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Evening Darsana, Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

This eternally existing spiritual social code of free will, that includes an independent sense of a self and individuality, is the eternal constitution of all individual jiva-souls and is part and parcel of their character and personality.
Each jiva-soul has these attributes without beginning or end and is part of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls) eternal constitution.

This allows the jiva-soul to personally always be aware that they are a unique individual independent person while serving Krsna, being different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.

Free will means it is the jiva soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna, or even not surrender if they choose however, the majority of jiva-souls, over 90% of jiva-souls never make that foolish choice and enter the temporary decaying material creation.

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be done or love cannot be executed with only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Love can only exist when there are two involved in loving exchanges.

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, never lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that is unique to each of the individual jiva-soul or jiva-tattva.

Each jiva-soul in their full natural ''svarupa'' potential in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, has this eternal marginal quality of free will and independent personality, which is part and parcel of the jiva-souls perpetual constitutional makeup.

In this way, each of jiva-soul has their own individual identity, character, personality, likes and dislikes and being one of kind in the Spiritual Sky, independent from all other jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa.

All individual jiva-souls are different, each has their own unique individual personality, character and independent identity. This eternally existing makeup or constitution of each jiva-soul, is without any beginning or ending point, and is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls)

This allows the jiva-soul to "personally" always be aware of their own individuality and independent nature while serving Krsna in their very best way, that is different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.

This is a very important point to understand as we progress and mature in our Krsna Consciousness. The relationship between Krsna and the jiva-soul is never one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is always reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, only then can there be real love.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is "free will". He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions Srila Prabhupada about Rene Descartes)

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."
(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes).