PADA: My question is, if he insisted on living in a vehicle, ... since large (10-12 foot deck) passenger window vans in pretty good running order are sold for maybe $2,500 around here, why didn't the temple just buy him a legal and movable vehicle, a long time ago? He would not have been conspicuous because he could move it, and it would have been legal. Better yet, why not give him a room somewhere on the compound? ys pd
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The devotees in LA didn't know what happened to Subuddhi for a few days after he was missing. They called the police to enquire and they said they had him and he was dead! They say Subudhhi threatened them and they shot him in self defense. I find it hard to believe that they really needed to shoot Subuddhi who never showed a temper in all the many years I knew him. This is a travesty of justice! So it's not like Subuddhi Prabhu intentionally commited suicide; he maybe acted in a way that made him get shot. Why can't they use a stun gun or something non lethal?! I smell a rat! Subuddhi didn't deserve that. Krsna must have taken him back after all. I still hope the police are held accountable. Sometimes they are too trigger happy and sometimes they get away with murder!
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http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130921/gunman-shot-to-death-at-culver-city-police-station
PADA: This devotee was being harassed by the police for unpaid fines on his truck, a truck that was supposedly given to him by Vishnujana a long time ago. So he went to the police station and raised a gun at officers, so they shot and killed him. This is another example of how there are many senior devotees who are getting older, getting sick and etc. and they have no shelter, so they are resorting to desperation alternatives. This poor devotee apparently could not even afford to pay the fines on his vehicle, much less take care of himself in other ways.
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http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130921/gunman-shot-to-death-at-culver-city-police-station
PADA: This devotee was being harassed by the police for unpaid fines on his truck, a truck that was supposedly given to him by Vishnujana a long time ago. So he went to the police station and raised a gun at officers, so they shot and killed him. This is another example of how there are many senior devotees who are getting older, getting sick and etc. and they have no shelter, so they are resorting to desperation alternatives. This poor devotee apparently could not even afford to pay the fines on his vehicle, much less take care of himself in other ways.
Personally, we cannot blame them much for this type of thing, they are being shut out of their own religion. Its sort of like how the medieval Catholic church would have a person "shunned," so the person could not have any dealings with the society, thus he could not buy, sell, trade, talk to others, get married, and so on, so the "shunned" often just died shortly thereafter.
Of course, we have also heard of some younger aged ex-kulis who are pretty much destitute and living in vehicles and so on. Meanwhile, the GBC gurus are living like jet-set Saudi Princes with opulent lifestyles. This is all very nice except, when someone steals from the populace to live like a King, and one is not authorized to be the King, one has to pay it all back with interest compounding daily, and one will be working off the debt being paid one penny a day in Yama's coal mines.
Of course, we have also heard of some younger aged ex-kulis who are pretty much destitute and living in vehicles and so on. Meanwhile, the GBC gurus are living like jet-set Saudi Princes with opulent lifestyles. This is all very nice except, when someone steals from the populace to live like a King, and one is not authorized to be the King, one has to pay it all back with interest compounding daily, and one will be working off the debt being paid one penny a day in Yama's coal mines.
At the same time, these GBC gurus will not only have to pay back the money and use of assets they took away from people like Subbhudhi das, they will have to pay for all the suffering and misery they caused to all these devotees, and that is the real payback they will have to endure.
The people who make devotees suffer, cry, and die, will have to pay for all that, with interest compounding daily. Sorry, that is why these false gurus go to the lowest regions. And so do their supporters like Bhakta das and his GBC guru groupies, who are also in league with those responsible for the suffering they are causing others. So we should all pray for Subuddhi das that he will be given a nice situation to continue with his service to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. ys pd
Subuddhi's Truck Being Towed Away
Subuddhi's Truck Being Towed Away
Subbudhi das knew that pointing his gun at police would open fire on him. At the same time when police would kill him they would take care of his pauper's grave. Yet another act of desperation when senior devotees feel no more welcome in ISKCON and don't want to be a burden in old age. He worked for ISKCON his whole life but knew these GBC men actually don't want me to be here.
ReplyDeleteSimilar case like at ISKCON France where one mataji set herself on fire and died in the temple garden.
GBC policy hasn't changed. They still replace senior devotees with paid personnel and letting senior devotees know that they are the odd one out, fifth wheel.
How much this movement can still be called a spiritual movement is written in the stars.
thank you for that you nailed it
DeleteThanks, but if the GBC was taking care of him, why was he being harassed by the police for not paying fines on the truck? Sorry, the GBC was not taking care of him. He was in great anxiety and that is why he did what he did, its not a simple case of "madness" -- he was feeling lack of support.
ReplyDeleteAnd he was right, the older Prabhupada devotees are not being supported, one of them was dying under a tree in India recently and some locals had to help him. He died anyway. This is not madness, this is a fact. ys pd
OMG, they were taking away his home? That same truck he lived in?? He lived in that van for decades and the van was never even driven it was just his shelter, while he did nothing but service to New Dvarka. Why did not anyone who knew that this was going on give him an alternative for housing or help with payments. Did anyone know?? How much could that van have owed? He was a dedicated full time servant of New Dvarka without any stipend for decades!! All he got was meals and the parking space in the parking lot for his truck, in return for his maintaining of all those buildings and grounds. I can feel his pain; he knew that without that truck he would have to leave New Dvarka and be separated from Dvarkadish and the Devotees, because the temple was not prepared to give him shelter. Temples never are, no matter how much we have all tried to help them be prepared!! Subhuddi is A real devotee. No doubt that he has gone straight home despite his mental break down at the end.
ReplyDeleteWhen a truck is parked on private territory this is outside of police custody. Therefore since 20 years police never complained. Unless TP of ISKCON LA filed charges for removal of the truck police never would have poked their nose into this truck sitting on private temple compound. So finally it all was triggered by GBC and they never admit. Someone should call at Culver City police station to find out who is the rascal that made a report.
ReplyDeleteThe city property inspector came and, while reviewing the property for maintenance issues, told him he could no longer park his truck there. The temple authorities are forced by law to follow the orders of the city inspector.
DeleteNo one told him he had to leave New Dwaraka, he simply had to move his truck.
Many devotees stepped forward and offered to pay his fines. Other devotees were in the process of fixing his truck so he could move it.
Devotees were giving him gifts and cash to help him through the situation. Many people were eager to help him and made that clear to him.
No one was aware that he was suicidal, except for one friend who never told anyone. Had the devotees known his mental condition, they would have taken severe steps to protect him.
Get the facts before you start spouting uninformed and worthless opinions about very serious situations.
Whomever is running this blog, if you choose not to post my reply, you should understand yourself to be devoted to falsehood and simply using the tragedy to push your personal agenda.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHare Krsna PADA Prabhu.
ReplyDeleteAll Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my humble obeisances.
When I read Subuddhi Prabhu (his) and the other older devotees of Srila Prabhupada, who died with no help, it is so sad, these so-called Bogus GBC, have no compassion at all.
And Well Said PADA Prabhu, I totally agree with You.
ISKCON is not what it used to be. And the people who are following these Bogus Guru's has no brain at all. Dull Headed, and they say, they are devotees, giving these bogus Guru's all their laxmi, and when they got a flowergarland, they worship it like, it is Lord Krsna Himself. Of course I should have respect for every living being, but Sorry I'm not on that Spiritual platform.
All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Subuddhi Prabhu and all the older devotees who died, they will find a place at the Divine Lotus Feet of A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada,The Founder Acarya of ISKCON.
Thank You very much PADA Prabhu, due to You mercy and reading all the articles, I have learned to think of Srila Prabhupada and I will never give up His Divine Lotus Feet.
All Glories to the Prabhupadanugas.
Always Your servant,
dasianudasi
What does the word Prabhu mean ? and what is the saying of my god sister and god brother are they just words or do they have a meaning . ?
DeletePADA: Maybe his van was his link to the time when Srila Prabhupada was here, it was like his remnant of those days, and he may mav felt without it, he would lose his connection to that era, i dunno, just a thought. ys pd
ReplyDeleteYes he got the van from Vishnujana who got it from a female devotee who is still around. Here is another tragic tale, recently a devotee who is initiated by a guru who had an affair but still has faith in him was asked for a huge donation because the guru has headaches and needs money to make him feel better. So she gave everything she had. She is from a third world country and she makes as much in a year as the guru can spend in a day but she gave it all to him. Is this laxmi going to make him feel better somehow? I personally feel this "guru" doesn't deserve a dime. Imagine milking your third world disciples for hundreds of dollars when it takes them so long to collect that much? It is totally sinful in my opinion, just awful.
ReplyDeleteThe temple hasn't changed in Los Angeles. They milk you for all your worth and then when you can't give any more they kick you out and say bad things about you while hiding their own faults and glorifying themselves.
Amarendra das -- Subuddhi's -- "Years of neglect and abuse" from temple authorities.
ReplyDelete===========================
"The City recently informed Sabhuddi Prabhu that had to get rid of his big brown truck, which was also his home. He enjoyed living right across the street from the temple, so that he could have darshana with the deities whenever we wanted.
It was the City of LA, and not Culver City, that made the inspection and gave the official orders. My understanding, however, is that the next LA City inspection was not until mid-October. Nonetheless, I am informed by several sources that the LA temple management told him he had to be off of the property in 24 hours. This was consistent with years and years of neglect and abuse to which he was subjected, wherein he was continuously denied opportunities to perform even a "little" service every now and then at the temple.
Anyway, it all came to a head around Friday, and I am told that he confided in Sarvabauma that he intended to go across the street to the Culver City police department and provoke an incident where they would have to shoot him. On Friday, however, when I last saw him in an utterly forlorn condition of hopelessness and despair, he could not apparently go through with it at that time. But, by early Saturday morning he had apparently mustered the necessary "determination" to go through with it, and went back across the street to the police station. There, he confronted two officers, and pulled out a gun. According to news reports, they told him to drop the gun, but he refused, and police protocol demanded that they shoot him, which they did. I he never intended to actually shoot at the police, and it was simply a ploy.
It is called "suicide by cop," and is very common and well-documented.
Tragically, I believe this whole thing should have never happened, and could have been avoided, but . . . it is too late. I pray that Srila Prabhupada will mitigate his pain and restore him to the platform of blissful devotional service."
this is very sad
ReplyDeleteIt is a sad case but one question remains why did he have a gun? pd you say "Krsna must have taken him back after all" Really when you start waving a gun you go back to Godhead? Gimme a break! This is a multi-lifetime process for most of us, and we have just made the first step in the right direction of a very long journey.
ReplyDeleteSuicide does not even give you your next body let alone a ticket back to Vaikuntha.
Srila Prabhupada disciples should be more conscious of their representation of Srila Prabhupada, I am sorry but I cannot respect or condone this type of action, it is not Vaisnava behaviour and it is not our philosophy to act like this!
What if this situation ended with an innocent person getting shot? It is madness and totally un-Vaisnava like to behave like this and according to shastra it gives you nothing but a ghost body.
aslishya va pada-ratam pinashtu mam
adarsanan marma-hatam-hatam karotu va
yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato
mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah
I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.
When you took diskha you accepted the hard path not the easy path! The hard path means you turn a mirror on yourself, and you accepted everything that goes with that.
A Srila Prabhupada disciple should even regard homelessness as Krishna's will.
Service? Service can be done even in the mind it is love after all not the manipulation of material matter that is important.
Anyway forgive me for stating the above, he deserves best wishes on his journey hopefully a better chance in his next life.
OK but, I never said Krishna took him back after all? I have said over the years that a number of devotees have died from things like drug overdoses, alcohol poisoning and many other things that are almost suicides, or similar to suicides, because they feel depressed at being shut out of their religion, denied service, denied a place to live and do service, denied a place to die in peace and etc etc.
ReplyDeleteSome of the devotees connected to Tamal commited suicide, supposedly Vishnujana. And a sannyasa named Gopijanaballabha shot himself and died after Tamal wrote him some nasty letters. One devotee beat his head in with a hammer, but he lived by some miracle, again after Tamal beat on him with nasty writings. I said we are not addressing the root cause of all these depressions and ill results, which is -- the victimization of the rank and file by the management of ISKCON.
I said way back in 1987 that one woman told me she lost her will to live in 1986, and she died of cancer in 1987, so I have said all along there is a problem going on in the devotee community of people dying early, prematurely and untimely. I never said I endorsed these premature deaths, even remotely, rather I said its an alarming problem.
Their untimely deaths does not mean they are automatically going back to Godhead when they depart, nor did I ever say that, although perhaps some of them could go back, but its not my call.
I am not condoning suicide, but I am saying there is a problem going on and its not being addressed. If this was an isolated case, that would be one thing, but its not, there are many devotees dying too early in and around the ISKCON environment, and I have addressed that. You are seemingly saying they should just buck up and live, well that is all fine and dandy, but its not changing the reality on the ground that many people are dying prematurely.
The same thing happened when I said the children are committing suicide, and we have to address it. Immediately the Sant / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali / Nickalaus Evans (NZ) group said these children are not dying fast enough, their group wrote that they wanted to see all of the children dead in a bloodbath, and their group said that in writing and in public, that these children need to be killed and chopped up.
I am saying - that is not the normal way a society handles suicides of its youth, to blame the victims and encourage them to die all the more. That is called re-victimizing the victims. That is like saying, go ahead and die, we want that. That is not a normal attitude, it reflects a serious lack of feeling for others. Its simply another example of how there is a lack of compassion and sympathy for others. Even the karmis are appalled at these attitudes, they treat their dogs with more love and sympathy than some folks are treated in ISKCON environment. There are also many hundreds of devotees who pray all the time that I will die, that is not what a normal society does, pray for the death of its fellow members. I am saying this is an attitude problem that is afflicting the society in general. I am saying thanks to the karmi police, I am alive, because there is an attitude that I should die among the so-called devotees, and this is not normally how a vaishnava society functions, or even a dog society functions.
I am saying that this attitude simply helps the victimizers and does not help the victims, at all. I am saying we as a society need to start to have sympathy for the victims, and start to have some sort of feelings for one another, the lack of which is why people feel isolated and helpless in the first place, or else this problem will never go away.
I like you last sentence, yes, we need to be the well wishers of these victims, that's the first step on the road to fixing this problem. ys pd
Sorry Pd I just assumed you wrote the article at the top of the page which does say “Krsna must have taken him back after all.” If that wasn’t you my apologies who penned this article?
ReplyDeleteI realize that many devotees have suffered in many ways after coming into contact with Iskcon including myself and some fatally either by their own hand or by the hand of other evil doers. Life in general is not an easy thing then add trying to follow Gaudia Vaishnavism to that and being born in the west actually makes life 4-5 times more difficult. We have all suffered at the very least mental abuse and others so much more.
As you say there is a problem going on and that is why people are committing suicide. For a westerner the GV path would have to be the one of the most difficult life paths you could choose. Originally GV was practiced in a village/family environment and still is to this day in areas of India and Bangladesh, in that environment one has so much support, empathy and general encouragement it makes the process not only easier but much more enjoyable and you practice it among people you know and love, your family.
Once you take GV out of a simple village/family environment which is exactly how it was practiced in the time of Sri Chaitanya Mahaphrabhu and place it into an institution like Gaudiya Math and Iskcon then you are creating a whole new set of dynamics. It goes from being a humble spiritual internal practice to an organised external religion with positions, money and power which changes everything. The people walking in through the door are not seen as humans but as exploitable resources to gain more money, more power and more prestige and after they are used up or are too old to extract service from then simply kick them out the door and get another naïve noobie!
Although Srila Prabhupada notably had a genuine desire to spread Krishna Conciousness all over the world and he certainly succeeded in doing that he also made some mistakes. Firstly he was notified of several child abuse cases and this is documented where although he was angry and said these people were demons and should be hung, he also failed to act in a decisive way like handing them over to the police/courts for prosecution. So some of the child abuse issues I am sorry to say, has to rest at his feet because he set the example by not dealing with it and that set a dangerous example moving forward which has been exploited even more.
Pd both you and Sulocana are my heroes no two people in Iskcon have faced the truth head on and in all its ugliness gone public with it. Very brave and very noble. Sulocana paid the ultimate price and you probably came close but Krishna protected you for obvious reasons. To keep the pressure on those miscreants. If the children of Iskcon have anyone to thank pd it is you and Windle Turley.
ReplyDeleteYou say I am saying they should just buck up and live? Well yes they should live, it would be silly for me to say they should keel over and die. Arjuna did not give up the fight and walk off, even though Arjuna was right there was no happiness at the end when all of his kinsmen were dead. I realize it is not their fault and the problems seemingly become insurmountable and it is a way to end the pain, but sorry no I don’t condone suicide because it doesn’t solve the issue at hand. But you will never change the reality on the ground if you commit suicide for that you will have to stick around and get active like you are doing!
Iskcon is not a normal society, I realized that after 18 months and I left and followed GV on my own terms visiting India and establishing my own friends and contacts. Iskcon told me that if you can’t make money for Iskcon (selling silly candles and paintings with a wig on...obviously pushed for by Tamal) then we don’t want you!, I said ”Great, then I will leave”. I married into a GV family to get the normal healthy family support I needed and I know not everyone can do that or wants to. But I know without that I would have fell into the abyss. I was able to take the good and leave the bad and move on.
What are the statistics of suicide in Iskcon by the way, they must be awfully high which is a huge indicator of internal issues. I remember living in the ashram you couldn’t tell anyone what you were really thinking there were no friends just fanatics and when you revealed that you could see cracks on the wall they couldn’t get rid of you fast enough, It was more like a Mental Asylum, a sad group of people that so much wanted to hold onto warped sense of reality. When I walked out of those doors you have no idea the happiness I felt.
Ys jsr! This will be my handle in your forums.
Sorry this post came in two parts ( the one above and this one)