Sunday, September 22, 2013

Conversation about "use of criticism" (09/22/13)

PADA: Criticism started with the GBC's gurus, they said we have to worship Jayatirtha and offer bhogha to him, despite he is taking drugs and having illicit affairs, and they said anyone who disagrees with that pooja system has to leave ISKCON, and so they kicked us all out. They established a policy that we have to worship debauchees, and they criticized Srila Prabhupada's standards for guru. So they criticized the platform of acharya, and they still are saying acharyas fall down. ys pd


Harikesh: ...position to criticize his Godbrothers, no matter what?
Prabhupāda: You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot criticize wrongly. [break]

PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada personally told me to only have pure things on the altars or Krishna will not accept the offering, so in 1978 we said that we cannot have the photos of debauchees on Krishna's altars, and so the gang of four gurus kicked us out for saying that. We are repeating Srila Prabhupada, so there is no question that is right. They still have photos of all kinds of conditioned souls on the altars, they have not changed the policy. Policy is made by the acharya, that is his policy, no impure things on the altars, he made that rule.

W das: Constructive criticism derived from FACT finding is derived from Srila Prabhupada himself, on the issue of his God- Brothers deviations. Srila Prabhupada is Right,so he makes a constrictive criticism. He didn't criticized wrongly.

J D: The point should be will it help or hurt someones devotional creeper?.. If a new person hears blasting of gurus and all this before they even get started in the process, or a new devotee.....they may leave all together. There is a way to teach others about the nonsense in ISKCON and GBC etc.

But criticizing others only makes us look bad even if it is true.. It may be done to help someone if it is done truthfully and to protect another person from harm..but at the same time it must be done carefully.. but if it hurts another then it is not good. There has been an overabundance of this name calling and bashing all over the internet and it is not attracting others to the Prabhupadanugas.. it is doing the opposite.

Let Srila Prabhupada do the bashing. We dont need to be news castor's.. We just need to tell the sidhanta.. everyone will learn through the grape vine who did what. But to constantly bring it up in discussions and then blast each other along the way.. Its so distasteful to anyone. But it has become a passtime of so many Prabhupadanugas and a habit and a kind of addiction for some... Let new devotees come ... lets not teach them the wrong way to discuss and talk amongst one another.. Otherwise they may just run away and want to be with the peaceful group who is not actually following the truth of what Srila Prabhupada instructed for ISKCON. In that case we did them a huge disservice.

Its important to know others are hearing and watching and running also.. Better to keep their attention with Srila Prabhupada quotes... the other will be apparent then they can make a wise decision. But if they get no chance to hear in fear of blasphemy then they will remain lost because of someone who think it right to criticize if it is right. Lets not use one verse to back up our criticizing... Srila Prabhupada also said so many things against arguing and criticizing.. So best we consider all involved and who it will harm...Lets all be very very careful how we speak and how we are going to help one another.. Hare Krishna.

A das: Vaishnava is Vaishnava, rascal is please Shrila Prabhupada and Radha/Krsna give me the wisdom to always know who is who, namely by their actions...and rascals should not be criticized..but beaten up with facts facts facts - and action of our own good example. Hare Krsna  All Glory's to HDG Shrila Prabhuada!

"Similarly, those who are Krsna conscious should also kill - not by weapons but by logic, by reasoning, and by education. If one is a demon, we can use logic...

J Devi: Yes.. we should Give The Sidhanta... Not put our opinion. We can say wordage that attracts instead of detracts.. Instead of using the words like pedophiles and molesters and on and on. we can say those who have abused .. Instead of saying BOGUS GURUS ...

A D: Before anything, we, ourselves must become the perfect example. Perfect example of following Shrila Prabhupadas instructions, this is where strength, empowerment, credibility and wisdom come from.

K Devi: "āpane ācare keha, nā kare pracāra pracāra karena keha, nā karena ācāra"'ācāra', 'pracāra',--nāmera karaha 'dui' kārya tumi--sarva-guru, tumi jagatera ārya.

"Some behave very well but do not preach the cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whereas others preach but do not behave properly."You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the holy name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world."

PADA:  The siddhanta is simple, the guru must be a resident of Krishna loka. The GBC says no, that is bogus because: The guru is often engaged in illicit sex, drugs, criminal activity; Placing molesters in the schools; Kicking out the Prabhupadanugas; Gambling in Reno; Going to the cinema shows; Getting massages from female massage women -- and then having illicit sex with those women (and then advertising using condoms); Shooting machine guns and getting arrested for having a machine gun; Shooting shot guns at beer cans that the guru was also drinking; Shooting guns at occupied buildings and getting arrested; Trying to buy Hugh Hefners Boeing airplane because it has a swimming pool; Buying gold and losing $170,000 when the price went down; Taking advice from the Gaudiya Matha, babajis, psychics, ghost busters, tantrics, financial experts, lawyers; Spending (wasting) $15 millions dollars suing the ritviks while their TOVP building remains a skeleton, etc. 

We are not criticizing anyone in particular here, but someone has to say, this is not the standard behavior of Lord Krishna's guru successors, or else it looks like we are compromised with these abominations. We have no choice but to separate ourselves from this program, or else it looks like we are promoting / acquiescing with it. Then there are those who say we and Sulochana should not have gone public with this protest, ok some of the protesters who tried to negotiate with the GBC gurus privately, without public police, media and court back up, are dead. Even Sulochana was taken out despite we both went public together. These bogus guru people are dangerous, hello! ys pd 


  1. After serving so many conditioned bodies in this material world life after life, what makes a difference to serve another conditioned body in the form of a so-called guru? Isn't it regarded as the most abominable kind of spiritual suicide? Wake up, sleeping soul! Srila Prabhupada is alive!

  2. Yes. All these things have to be brought out to the open and should be refered to exactly for what they are. We should not, under any circumstance, be compromising. Everyone, senior devotees as well as the newcomers must know and understand the seriousnes of these issues. We are talking about people's spiritual lives here. So, while being compassionate let us not be swayed by petty sentimentalism. My humble obeisances to all. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Their Lordships Sri-Sri Gaura-Nitai! Hare Krsna!

  3. ISKCONites are with the back to the wall. They mortgaged all western temples in order to build TOVP. Now they have these terrible crimes in Mayapur where so called Dhamavasis are trying to kill Western devotees as an offering to Bhadrakali ( And when someone suggests these are not Vaishnavas, these are murderers. GBC: "Don't commit Vaishnava aparadha against those Dhamavasis who try to cut off your throat with a special sword as an offering for their Deity. "
    Hm, question is, are ritviks worse than those ritual murderers in Mayapur Dham?
    GBC never says that ISKCONites should stop committing offense against Prabhupadanugas.
    So things are getting bizarr. For GBC men worshipers of Srila Prabhupada are the lowest of mankind. Any suggestion?

  4. Dear prabhu, here is the authorized description of the GBC men:
    "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." Bg 7.15
    Purport: ... Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God; they simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material existence in their vain attempts to solve them. Because material energy (nature) is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of "planning commissions."
    (3) The next class of duskrti is called mayayapahrta-jnanah, or those persons whose erudite knowledge has been nullified by the influence of illusory material energy. They are mostly very learned fellows—great philosophers, poets, literati, scientists, etc.—but the illusory energy misguides them, and therefore they disobey the Supreme Lord.
    There are a great number of mayayapahrta-jnanah at the present moment, even amongst the scholars of the Bhagavad-gita.
    All the unauthorized interpretations of the Gita by the class of mayayapahrta-jnanah, outside the purview of the parampara system, are so many stumbling blocks on the path of spiritual understanding. The deluded interpreters do not surrender unto the lotus feet of Sri Krsna, nor do they teach others to follow this principle.
    Therefore, (1) grossly foolish persons, (2) the lowest of mankind, (3) the deluded speculators, and (4) the professed atheists, as above mentioned, never surrender unto the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead in spite of all scriptural and authoritative advice.

  5. Hare Rama
    pamho AGTSP
    Most Prabhupadanugas in the west have no association, they can not chant 16 rounds and have problems, so instead they waste time with gossip and facebook. NOD gives the solution to remove obstacles in your Sadhana:

    Do a virtual Ganesha Puja daily for 6 month:
    Smash Coconuts in front of Ganesha daily to remove obstacles:
    (Devotional service can also be rendered in the Mind as was done by a poor Brahmin, so a virtual Puja is as valid as a normal one. More important is sincerity and dedication to do it every day for at least 6 month. Ganesha will then worship Lord Narasimha on your behalf to remove the obstacle. I created this video because many devotees I know, can not chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra daily and this helps to find and remove the cause of this obstacle. Srila Prabhupada mentions in this lecture( ) that Krpa Siddha(liberation through mercy) is very special/rare and that we need to follow Sadhana. This means we need to chant 16 round daily and Srila Prabhupada will give us the result of chanting 64 rounds by his mercy. Of course only if we accept him as the only Diksha Guru of ISKCON as per July 9th 1977 letter, because a conditioned soul GBC/Gaudiya Matha Guru can't liberate himself nor anybody else!)

    I personally chanted the Ganesha Mantra "Om Gam Ganapathajey namah" 1008 times daily and listened to the "Sankata Nasana Ganapati Stotram Devotional Song - Narada Purana" ( 3 times daily with a desire to go back to Godhead for 6 month. This was done by Gauridasa Pandit Dasa with a desire to become Prabhupada's personal servant and according to him this Stotram fulfils any desire if listened 3times daily for 6 month.And IT WORKED! I am now finally chanting 16 rounds after 3 years of miseries and problems in my spiritual life.

    Bhakta Robin

  6. Hare Krsna Bhakta Robin.
    All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
    Please accept my humble obeisances.

    Dear Bhakta Robin, I'm very happy for you that you finally are chanting 16 rounds after 3 years.
    Dear Prabhu, how do you know that Prabhupadanugas have no association in the west, and instead of that ,they waste their time with gossip and facebook.
    I have respect for Sri Ganesh, I know his name is written in the NOD, but I can chant only the pranam mantra of Srila Prabhupada, Jaya Sri Krsna Caitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Sri Advaita, Gadadhara, Srivasadi Gaura Bhakta Vrnda and the Mahamantra, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare,
    Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

    I respect your comment, but for me it works different, before I chant, I pray to Srila Prabhupada, and ask Him permission before I start my Japa.
    I hope you will read this Prabhu

    Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 8.5.25
    Purport By His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada,
    Prayers must be approved by Vedic literature as indicated in this verse, 8.5.25 by the the words daivibhirgirbhih.
    In our Krsna Consiousness movement, we do not allow any song that has not been approved or sung by bonafide devotees.
    We cannot allow cinema songs to be sung in the temple. We generally sing two songs. One is Sri Krsna Caitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Sri Advaita Gadadhara Srivasadi Gaura Bhakta vrnda.
    This is bonafide . It is always mentioned in the Caitanya-Caritamrta, and it is accepted by the Acarcyas.
    The other of course, is the Mahamantra,
    Hare Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
    We may also sing the song of Narottama Dasa Thakura, Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Locana dasa Thakura, but these twos songs"Sri Krsna Caitanya and The Hare Krsna Maha-mantra are suffcient to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although we cannot see Him.
    Seeing the Lord is not as important as appreciating Him from authentic Literature or the authentic statements of authorized persons.

    Dear Bhakta Robin Prabhu, please don't make statements, that we waste our time in gossip and facebook.
    I'm not attacking you Prabhu, but if we read the unedited books of His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta, Swami Srila Prabhupada, we have association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krsna, and the Pure Devotees of Lord Krsna.

    As a mother let me give you a advice Prabhu, if you read the books of Srila Prabhupada, read in the mood of I'm not the devotee, that Srila Prabhupada is refering to, but that is the other devotee, it will make you happier just give it a try.
    Miseries and problems will always be even in spiritual life, because this is the material world. We will have three klesa's ask Gauridasa Pandit Dasa.
    Even Lord Brahma has problems and miseries, and what about Indradeva, the king of the heavenly planets.

    Be sure I'm very happy for You, because a mother wants her sons to become Pure devotees of Lord Krsna, through the blessings of His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
    Hare Krsna.
    All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
    All Glories to the Prabhupadanugas.
    Always Your servant,

  7. Correct. With all due respect to the demigods but, that is the proper sidhanta for all the true followers and aspiring followers of HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who was chosen as the pre-eminent representative of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu for the propagation of the chanting of the Holy Names throughout every town and village in this world. May his causeless mercy be bestowed upon all the fallen conditioned souls of this age, specially on those who sincerely have or are trying to take shelter under his soothing lotus feet. My humble obeisances to all. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Their Lordships Sri-Sri Nitai-Gaurasundara! Hare Krsna!


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