Monday, March 12, 2012

Tripurari swami update 03/12/12

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Some persons have written to me asking what the scriptural support against ritvikvada is. However, the onus is on ritviks to demonstrate the scriptural support for their new system.

[PADA: The system of priests, churches and temples is not a new system? Jesus Christ has been worshipped for 2,000 years in the system of priests, and Srila Prabhupada says that is bona fide. He also said Jesus is still accepting the sins of his followers even now.

Srila Prabhupada Lecture, October 2, 1968, Seattle:

Madhudvisa: "Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
Prabhupada: I don't follow.
Tamala Krsna: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...
Prabhupada: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?
Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is ETERNAL. Spiritual master is ETERNAL. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master REPRESENTED by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?"

TRIPURARI SWAMI: And as I have already pointed out, this does not involve citing one verse or one or two statements of Prabhupada. It involves sastra-yukti, which Sri Jiva Goswami refers to as the uttama pramana, citing the tantra.

[PADA: Why does the worship of a pure devotee - messiah like Jesus have to be "proven" at all by anyone? The pure devotee is self effulgent, he does not need a shastric validation. We worship pure devotees because they are God's representatives, there is no need to "prove" such a process. This is the order of God in all religions, "worship My pure devotees." Moreover the Goswamis said that people who worship deviants or promote that are "utpat" -- simply a disturbance for the sincere devotees.  

Whereas Tripurari's mentor Sridhara Maharaja in 1936 supported the worship of a homosexual deviant as the messiah of his Gaudiya Matha society. Sridhara complained there was "no shastra" to prove that the Gaudiya Matha should have continued to worship their pure devotee under a church - priest - Governing Body system. The result was: Sridhara's messiah (Ananta Vasudeva) deteriorated into bi-sexual actions and scandals, dissenters were beaten and killed, and later their bogus messiah's child was poisoned to death to cover up these scandals, and then Sridhara's messiah committed suicide. Where is the evidence that this Sridhara - Tripurari false pure devotee program is bona fide, or found in shastra? 

Worse, the Sridhara and Tripurari folks are saying the priest (ritvik) system, also used to worship Jesus, is the bogus ritvik idea. They even say this system is a severe offense -- i.e. worship of a saint like Jesus under their Church system of priests. However, then we find the Sridhara program has been promoting deviants and even homosexuals as messiahs instead of someone like Jesus. Anyone over the age of ten in the USA knows is it bona fide to worship Jesus and it is not bona fide to worship homosexuals and deviants as messiahs and acharyas. Average people do not need any "shasta" to know that, it is common sense. Incidentally, because Sridhara did not listen to me and tell Jayatirtha to quit his false messiah's program, Jayatirtha had his head hacked off for having sex with the wife of a follower. Another dead body thanks to the Sridhara and Tripurari policy of supporting these people as gurus and harassing us who tried to save Jayatirtha. If we follow shastra, then we would know that a person who takes drugs and has sex with the wives followers etc. is NOT THE NEXT MESSIAH! Sridhara should not have told him to stay in that post!]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: What we have seen instead is more analogous to a legal argument one engages in to determine the intent of a deceased person’s will. Again, if Prabhupada wanted this system, he or his followers must demonstrate how it follows Gaudiya siddhanta, or face being labeled members of an apasampradaya by the rest of the lineage, including the rest of the Bhaktivinoda parivara. Remember, this is what Prabhupada himself taught us.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada was asked how initiations would be conducted at that time when he would no longer be with us, and he said he was going to make ritviks. BV Puri maharaja also confirmed that Srila Prabhupada said he was only making ritviks. The legal argument that evolved was, how come the GBC, their allies like Tripurari and Sridhara and ilk supported the post 1978 -- "11 GBC gurus" -- who created all kinds of criminal mischeif, including molesting and murder? And we had to sue these "gurus" for $400,000,000 for their molesting program? And where is the legal evidence Srila Prabhupada had ordered these neophytes to be worshiped as messiahs?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: There is a methodology for arriving at siddhanta. It involves a thesis (visaya) entertaining a doubt (samsaya), arguing in favor of the doubt (purvapaksin), and refuting this argument with reference to sastra that is in consideration of context (sangati).

[PADA: Right, Sridhara maharaja's thesis in 1936 was: That a person with material attraction tendencies has to be worshipped as their "successor to God" messiah. As a result, dissenters were murdered. After 1978, Sridhara maharaja continued with his same thesis, that persons with anarthas, such as homosexual tendencies, need to be worshiped as gurus. The result was worse this time, thousands of children were molested and dissenters were being assassinated once again. That means, even after seeing that his promoting the worship of conditioned beings as Jesus-like messiahs after 1936 was dangerous, indeed deadly, because the Sridhara maharaja POLICY of making false gurus created beatings and murders, Sridhara STILL went ahead and did the same exact thing again, he did not learn that promoting false messiahs is dangerous and wrong. 

Apparently, neither has Tripurari learned this lesson? He still says those of us who opposed the worship of the GBC's 1978 homosexuals and pedophiles as messiahs program (that Sridhara maharaja supported and Tripurari was trying to get voted into) are "ritvik aparadhis." Calling people ritvik aparadhis in ISKCON can get people killed, as Tripurari is well aware. So now he is apparently trying to get not only me but my entire family members and friends targeted for violence, or treated severely by branding all of us as ritvik aparadhi offenders. Tripurari still does not know his mentor had no authority to get dissenters murdered by promoting false messiahs after 1936? In other words, they are still trying to target us for violence because we did not accept Sridhara's original idea of 1936 and later in 1978: That deviants, homosexuals and - or molesters can be worshiped as God's successor messiahs.]     

TRIPURARI SWAMI: That said I will indulge those who erroneously think that the onus for demonstrating rivikvada is appasiddhanta is on those who reject it.

[PADA: We have proven this many times over: Worship of Lord Jesus by the system of ritviks is bona fide. No one except people like Tripurari are attacking the system of worship of Jesus as a deviation. And the GBC, Sridhara, Tripurari ilk and clan have said things like: the ritviks (ok the Christians are included here) are: Bogus, offenders, aparadhis, poison, demons (Tripurari called me a demon to my face), and so on, DEMONIZING the worship of pure devotees like Jesus. Which shastra says we have to brand the worship of pure devotees as the demoniac deviation? Which shastra says we should orchestrate murders by saying "none should protest" the worship of deviants, thus self-evidently setting up the dissenters for beatings and murders?

Some of these ilk also say the worship of a saint like Jesus is the "posthumous" worship deviation and so on. Meanwhile, while making it sound like the worship of someone like Jesus is bogus, Sridhara maharaja program promoted a homosexual messiah in 1936, and then homosexuals and pedophiles as messiahs after 1978. The proof that this is bogus is there already, this resulted in molesting, banning, beating, murders, and so on. It was a failure in 1936 and it was a failure after 1978. Moreover, there was no order from any acharya to attack the worship of Jesus as the bogus ritvik process, and to demonize his worship as an offense.]   

Visaya: For a lineage to remain spiritually vital a successor who has the capacity to give initiation is required.

[PADA: OK, so why has the Sridhara maharaja program said that homosexuals have had the capacity to to be diksha gurus and absorb sins like Jesus is doing? And that anyone who objects is an aparadhi, which gives virtual licence that the dissenters can thus be targeted to be beaten and killed?] 

Samsaya: I see no reason why the guru cannot perform ritvik initiations after his departure.

Purvapaksin: The guru can give initiations via a ritvik after his departure because we see that he can give ritvik initiation when he is not present in one part of the of the world to a disciple in another part of the world through a ritvik, and this is analogous to his initiating from the the paravyoma via a ritvik. Furthermore whatever the guru says is sastra, and thus if he says he wants such a system it is authorized by sastra.

Siddhanta: No, because of parampara and the purpose of sastra.

Commentary: To say that everything the guru says is sastra is to defeat the very purpose of sastra.

[PADA: There is no scripture in the world which says that people can worship homosexuals and deviants as messiahs, as Sridhara Maharaja promoted in post 1936 and post 1978.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Sastra is a standard of knowledge that helps one know who is guru and who is not.

[PADA: And Srila Prabhupada says -- amongst his God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya, because they tend to make unqualified fools into their messiahs.] 

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Thus to be credible the guru must support his or her position with sastra. The truth is that under scrutiny the words of the guru that take on a sastric status in a particular sect are also found to be supported by sastra, if that is, the sect is to remain spiritually vital. In the case where a guru’s words are interpreted to say that he will continue to initiate after his departure through ritvik representatives, because there is no underlying scriptural support for this idea, such an interpretation is incorrect. This is especially so when there is considerable evidence to support the idea that the guru did not say he wanted such a system.

[PADA: Again, there is no shastra in the world where people are authorized to be promoting the worship of homosexuals and various deviants as their messiahs. In fact Srila Prabhupada says that even in the African tribal (cannibal?) societies, they worship something like -- lightening, a mountain, or a lion ... something wonderful from nature. And he says this is bona fide because this is worship of the universal form of God. Yet even in tribal cannibal society we do not find they are worshipping the GBC - Sridhara program of -- illicit sex messiahs? A deviation which Sridhara maharaja clearly promoted over generations of time, and there is evidence of this in the conversations with Sridhara in 1978 where he says the 11 are gurus. And he continued to say the 11 are gurus even after he was told they were deviating. Sorry, deviating people are not gurus.] 

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Previous precedent illustrates that the rivik perfoms functions on behalf of the acarya with his permission while he is present in the world and acting as a diska guru.

[PADA: And when no one is qualified to be an acharya that system continues indefinitely. A neophyte can only act as a representative (ritvik) not as a messiah - acharya. So the GBC -- Sridhara -- Tripurari program telescoped the levels of neophyte with the messiahs, and ended up with homosexuals and pedophiles as their messiahs. Naturally, this is a potentially violent and deadly situation for the dissenters.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: This is common. However, when the diksa guru departs he becomes a purvacarya and the service of diska passes "from one to another."

[PADA: The process of pure gurus passes from (a) the pure guru to (b) self-appointed deviants, the homosexuals, and so on, as Sridhara supported in 1936 and 1978? And now they are also attacking the worship of Jesus as a ritvik deviation -- while saying Sridhara and his two generations of homosexual guru process has been the bona fide process? Yes, they passed the homosexual guru deviation "from one generation to another." And dissenters were beaten and murdered in both instances. Where does shastra authorize any of this?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: This is the meaning of "parampara," "an uninterrupted series."

[PADA: No, there are only 32 gurus listed for 5,000 years, there are many gaps. And why should the Christians quit the worship of Jesus to worship one of Sridhara's "series" which contains deviants? And why are the Christians and us aparadhis -- offenders for refusing to accept the worship of such deviants? And why does Srila Prabhupada say the 32 gurus in the parampara shows that there are gaps?] 

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Parampara (one after another) is the chosen system Bhagavan has established for the continuation of a lineage and the filling of the spiritual vacuum that occurs at the time of the departure of the diksa guru, evam parampara praptam . . . (Bg 4.2).

[PADA: And so, the vaccum should be filled with deviants? And why should the people who worship Jesus accept the worship of deviants instead of worship of Jesus? Why is the worship of deviants superior to the worship of Jesus? And why are the Christians ritvik - offender - aparadhis for refusing to worship Sridhara's line of deviants as their messiahs?] 

TRIPURARI SWAMI: To stop this system by not allowing for a successor diksa guru to follow is to go against the system established by Bhagavan.

[PADA: Are you kidding! Bhagavan (God) wanted Sridhara maharaja to establish the worship of homosexuals as GOD'S successors and messiahs, and declare the worship of Jesus as an offensive ritvik deviation? I am sorry, but when we tell this to Christians, they think you folks are the ones who are off the rails and not them! So look at what occurs here, "God wanted" Sridhara and his homosexual guru processs, so when we oppose, we are opposing God, see how Tripurari is trying to get us assassinated by branding us as offenders to God? It works, many people were beaten and killed after 1936 by the Sridhara idea of bogus gurus then, and this process of beatings and killings has gone on ever since. Of course people get killed every day in some parts of the world for "offending God" --- its a great way to have people offed. Why does Tripurari think he is authorized to promote this rhetoric against the Vaishnavas and even the Christians, they are all ritvik offenders?] 

TRIPURARI SWAMI: And Padma Purana and Garga-samhita teach that mantras that are not received through the traditional parmapara system bear no fruit. This is the meaning of "sampradaya vihina ye mantras te nisphala matah." If there is no successor diksa guru, there is no parampara, and sastra stresses that any mantra received through such a truncated system will bear no fruit.

[PADA: Except that even the average Christians are not engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, whereas in the successor guru - messiah system established by Sridhara maharaja, there has been extreme deviants who have been engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children -- posing as messiahs. That means the ordinary Christians are getting a higher fruit because for the most part they have avoided these deviations, whereas within the highest level acharyas in the Sridhara system they have fallen into these deviations.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: It is also the desire of Bhagavan through this parampara system to glorify the successor acarya, who remaining in the world has recourse to the requisite discrimination employed in granting diksa.

[PADA: God is glorified by saying the worship of Jesus is a deviation, and we need to worship Sridhara's homosexual messiahs instead?]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Note that the ritvika does not discriminate who will be initiated and who will not, but merely suggests candidates.

[PADA: No, the ritvik system was in place in 1970, people were recommended by the temple presidents. And the Christians have the same basic system, a Christian neophyte is recommended by the elders for baptism, and that person has to pass some standards, then he is baptized.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: And only upon approval of the acaraya of those specific candidates does the ritvik perform the procedures surrounding diksa. This is the example Prabhupada himself set when he was present and designated ritviks. When Prabhupada was present, ritviks sought his approval. If, however, ritviks are empowered to get his approval or disapproval from him once he has entered the nitya-lila, they are far more than ritviks and qualified to initiate themselves.

[PADA: How can people with anarthas such as homosexuality take disciples like Jesus does, initiate by themselves like Jesus, and accept sins like Jesus does? (diksha)!!!]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Now if we also look at the sangati of Gita 4.2 We find it appears in the midst of lessons on avatara tattva. Thus parampara speaks of a particular type of Bhagavan’s descent, the conditions for which are well known. To militate against this on the basis of highly debatable statements of an acarya that cannot be definitively interpreted to support forgoing the parampara system is not wise. And we see the result. This present ritvik system in many cases fosters conspiracy theories and Vaisnava aparadha, not humility and the desire for sadhu sanga.

[PADA: No, as soon as we said that persons engaged in illicit sex, drugs, homosexuality and other deviations are not God's succesors and messiahs, Sridhara maharaja said "none should protest," i.e. we should be removed from the sangha. Of course that was a blessing, we were kicked out due to his policy of eliminating us protestors. 

Who wants to be in the sangha of people who are worshipping illicit sex as messiahs? And because we objected, we immediately got death threats because of Sridhara maharaja saying none should protest. Basically Sridhara set us up to get treated with violence by saying we cannot protest his bogus messiahs program, hence we still get death threats all the time since we still say homosexuals and deviants are not acharyas. And the GBC and Sridhara have no authority to promote such deviants as messiahs in the first place. 

As for humilty, if we wrote to 500 churches in North Carolina and 500 around Miami that there is a cult there that direct or de facto says that worship of Jesus is the bogus aparadhi poison ritvik deviation, because we need to worship Sridhara and his idea of homosexual messiahs, we could have caused major mayhem for Tripurari years ago. We have been pretty humble not to have done so. Especially so, because EVEN NOW Tripurari is trying to target my entire family with violence by saying we are ALL the ritvik aparadhis. Of course if we write to inform the Christians they are all poison ritvik deviant aparadhis for not accepting the founder -- promoter of 1936 and 1978 homosexual guru lineages, they would be shocked.]

TRIPURARI SWAMI: Finally regarding the term "parampara" we find the following written by Srila Prabhupada: "Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are bona fide Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle. But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy." (December, 1975)

This statement also makes it clear the he did not want a concocted ritvik system, but rather a traditional system supported by sastra and previous precedent.

[PADA: Right, after Sulochana was killed for printing these letters, now they are quoting these letters. Amazing. Sorry, this letter is not naming any specific persons to be guru, it says there is a principle, its a general statement. Basically, when you are qualified, you are a brain surgeon, that does not means the hospital janitor grabs a hack saw and starts to perfrom brain surgery now? Notice also, the "tradition" is, we cannot worship Jesus, that is the bogus ritvik idea, we have to worship Sridhara's bogus messiahs projects, and messiahs in that project are constantly falling into illicit sex with men, women and children? That is superior to the worship of Jesus? What kind of tradition is that? In general, a devotee should try to be pure and acharya, but since there are only 32 acharyas since 5,000 years time, this does not happen very often. ys pd] 


  1. Tripurari Swami defends some wealth and followers he accumulated with the idea of switching to Sridhar Maharaja's siksa.
    Although being defeated left and right he never admits defeat because for him what counts is his wealth and followers.

    Same with ISKCON. They captured Prabhupada's buildings and whatever happens with their 41 fallen gurus, 104 fallen sannyasis ( is of no interest.

    Their logic, Christians are sinful, we follow 4 regs.

    However, according previous acarya, Lord Jesus is a bona fide representative of God.

    Agreed, mostly Christians eat meat, what is considered as sinful. But they never would commit the mega aparadha of worshipping a conditioned soul as God's direct representative.

    In sum, right, Christians are sinful, although many Christians adopt now Prabhupada's 4 regs.

    Whereas present Vaishnava institutions worship unauthorized conditioned souls as God's direct representative. Never mind if thousands of discples feel betrayed when such a guru quits for good.

    Conclusio: Christianity is in superior position.
    So called modern Vaishnavas lost it.

  2. PADA quotes the phrase "worship My pure devotees" as if the phrase is the word of God.

    If a phrase as significant and important as this was truly God's word, it would be (at the very least) a well known phrase.

    But upon Googling "worship My pure devotees" we find the phrase appears in only ONE place on the entire net; PADA's blog.

    Thus we can conclude that this phrase is not the word of God, but rather it is PADA's concoction.

  3. Look for, “God's representative”, "pure devotee" is ISKCON jargon.

    "Christ is the Second Member of the
    Godhead, and the Unity of the God-
    head is not interrupted by His
    Incarnation. He is continuously
    and forever, God the Son, One in
    Substance, One in Purpose, with
    God the Father. The attitude of
    the Godhead toward the human
    race is the attitude of love. In the
    Father that attitude finds expres-
    sion when the Father sends the Son
    to be the Saviour of the world."


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