Wednesday, July 3, 2019

ISKCON GBC Meets Sridhara Maharaja (1978) pt 1

The self-appointed 11 bogus Iskcon gurus usurping the seat of acarya:
simultaneous guru-puja of conditioned soul gurus. The 11 bogus Iskcon gurus seeking support and authorisation from Srila Sridhara Maharaj.

"Tamal Krsna Maharaja:
But, explain. In one temple, in one of our Maths, the disciples may have many different gurus, just like there are eleven persons now. So, say three of those eleven persons may be the gurus of the disciples in that Math, then how to know whose picture to put on the…

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: So, to get out of this difficulty, the zonal preference should be maintained.

Assembly (Background): The zonal preference should be maintained to get out of this problem.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: To get out of this difficulty, as much as possible, but what I m saying is, that may be applicable easily in the branch Maths. But in the main Maths, Mayapur, Vrndavana, where all is interested keenly, difficulty will arise there.

Jayapataka Maharaja: So there, there can be a group photo. (Laughter)

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: Group photo, say it in Bengali. [to Srila Sridhara Maharaja]

Jayapataka Maharaja: (Bengali)

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Group photo, group photo. But then, then also a difficulty will arise, his guru. Guru photo, but, everyone will like that his guru must be in the center.


Tamal Krsna Maharaja: (Serious): No, No, No, We…

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: This difficulty may arise.

Hansadutta Maharaja: We can take eleven different group photos, each man in the center.”

(March, 1978)

[PADA: Notice the laughter, because even then it sounded ridiculous that we would have "guru zones" and the photos of these 11 ISKCON GBC men on the altars in Krishna's temples. Of course now Sridhara Maharaja is saying we have to offer the bhogha to the photos of these 11 conditioned souls, and that process is still going on.]


The talks of the 11 self-proclaimed “gurus” with Sridhara Swami on “What to do?” after the departure of Srila Prabhupada.

First Two Official Meetings of Srila Sridhara Maharaja with the ISKCON GBC

March 1978 –Known present GBC members: Tamal Krsna Maharaja, Jayapataka Maharaja, Jayatirtha Maharaja, Harikesa Maharaja, Satsvarupa Maharaja, Jayadvaita Maharaja, and others.


Jayapataka Mj: After the departure of our beloved spiritual master we came to offer our respects to you as well as to hear your very esteemed upadesa on certain matters if you would be kind enough.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: The gurudeva is mentioned in the sastra with an example. The sisya is like a lotus, and the gurudeva like the water around, just as in a pond or in a lake, gurudevas position is like water and Krsna is like the sun. As long as the lotus is floating on the water, the sun will give life to the lotus but if the water vanishes that very sun will burn the lotus. Do you follow? This sort of example is given in the sastra. I cannot exactly remember the sanskrit verse, but such example is there, the water along with the lotus, for without water the sun, Krsna, will burn. 

Without the help of guru the disciple is nowhere. Raghunatha Das Goswami prabhu, the prayojana acarya of the whole Gaudiya philosophy, spiritual system-he has also remarked that yat bunjayate kunjam hrdayate . . . that a python is coming. After the demise, departure of Sri Gurudeva, Rupa-Sanatana, that Govardhan Hill, which is the representation of Sri Krsna Himself, it seems to me just like a big python is coming to devour me and Radha Kunda the holiest place of the divinity of the Gaudiya Sampradaya, like a tigers mouth, it is coming to devour me by the separation of Gurudeva. 

So much excitement is there, given to me about the absence of my gurudeva, my dearest and my highest guardian, spiritual guardian, who has the most intense affection for me, to nurture me for spiritual purpose. He is not here, how can I tolerate that my everything is gone. All vanishes with his departure-such sort of deep sense of separation will come and the . . .

Where is Bhavananda, is he here?

Jayapataka Maharaja: He couldn’t come today.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: He told in his lecture, that union in separation is the highest realization. I was very happy to hear from his lips that union in separation-vipralambha-that is the highest kind of attainment, vipralambha. Without vipralambha nothing else can come to us. Krsna and the opposite thing, that is antithesis, that will come as vipralambha, vihara, Krsna vihara, krsna milan, krsna vihara and without milan there cannot be any other reaction to that, without that separation, vihara, vipralambha. 

So, vipralambha is the most spacious, most spacious thing pertaining to Krsna consciousness. And if we can have the grace of that plane, forgetfulness. In forgetfulness also, if there is Krsna connection then we are safe, we are set. In the forgetfulness also we shall have the Krsna consciousness also in the background and nothing else-no maya. 

The safest position, fearless position, that is vipralambha. In vipralambha, gurudeva, in separation to gurudeva, if we can stand then vidyavatam bhagavate pariksad. I have passed the highest stage, test, examination. In separation also I can retain the memory of sri gurudeva, Sri Krsna.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Maharaja, when our Srila Prabhupada left, then he has given instruction that for initiating and for carrying on the sampradaya there would be eleven - in the beginning, he appointed eleven devotees, his disciples, to be initiating spiritual masters or to accept disciples and in the future that number would also be able to be increased. So we wanted to take your advice on some points as to various details of how these initiating spiritual masters should deal with certain questions. If we could ask questions to you then?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: yes, you may ask.

Jayapataka Maharaja: He has given explicit desires, but he told us that, on other technical points and other matters of philosophy, it there was question we should approach you. He said that during his … when he was very ill, he had appointed eleven ritviks and he said that after he disappears that these ritviks would continue as initiating spiritual masters and that they could be increased later, that would be decided by the GBC or Governing Body Commission.

The first question was, we wondered that some of the disciples had been initiated by Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja. But this Harinama, so they will be taking diksa from one of his disciples, so they wondered, what is their relationship in this type of situation with each of the spiritual masters. So, those who are initiated by our Srila Prabhupada with Harinama, then when they approach one of these eleven and take second initiation then they would like to know what is the, who is the guru, spiritual master amongst these eleven.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: A Disciple, he may like one-first or third or fourth or fifth, how to solve that.

Tamal Krsna Mj (background): That we must solve.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: A person . ..

Jayapataka Maharaja: He can take who he likes, he may take whichever one he wants?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: According to his sraddha.

His faith.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: According to his sraddha a newcomer should be given some time. Who will come to be initiated, he should be given some time for a fair period of time to hear from different persons and then the sraddha, the faith …

Devotee: Will be awakened.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Ah, will be considered to whom he will submit. Do you follow?

GBC Assembly: Yes

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: After sravan, then varan, five stages there are; first to hear. First stage is to hear and the second stage, that is varan, that is, acceptance by the guru and the sisya, both the preceptor and the disciple. That is the second stage, varan dasa. Then the sadhana or the attempt for realization will begin. First stage, to hear openly, open field-fair field to hear-then the connection should come between the guru and sisya-preceptor and disciple, both sides. Then that should be better. Sravan dasa, then varan dasa, then sadhana dasa, apan dasa, prapan dasa-five stages in sadhana in spiritual life.

Devotee: At which stage does diksa come?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Prapana dasa-last. First sravan

Devotee: Hearing.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Sravan, to hear, to listen to and then varan-both preceptor accepts the sisya…

Devotee: This is the Harinama stage

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Both Harinama. Harinama is the main thing and diksa only to help Harinama. It is mentioned in Rupa Goswami’s writings that Harinama diksa is the main thing.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Accha.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:
And the Pancaratric Diksa, it is Bhagavati diksa, Harinama diksa, that means bhagavati diksa. Pancaratic diksa is mantram and that only to help Harinama, that one can reach to the siddhi of Harinama, this mantra will help. Mantra’s jurisdiction up to salvation, liberation. And after liberation Harinama continues- Harinama circle-greater circle and diksa is a smaller circle within the Harinama circle. 

Harinama reaches to the lowest and the highest. And diksa in the middle part-mid circle-that may help to Harinama. Muktafal, Harinama, not mantra…. trayateti mantra, this mental, which will relieve us from mental speculation- that is mantram, this manama-dharma that is the worldly mind should, we should get relief from the worldly - mindedness by mantram, but Harinama is a natural thing. It reaches to the lowest and goes to the highest-Harinama.

[PADA: Fine except, how can neophytes, still somewhat or largely conditioned by worldly mindedness -- give diksha -- a process that will take another person to the highest platform? And why doesn't Sridhara Maharaja ever ask about this? Nor does he ever ask, what are the specific details of this so-called guru appointment? And where is the evidence of this appointment etc.?]

Jayapataka Maharaja: So those who have received Harinama from Bhaktivedanta Swami, then they are his disciples.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: They will take help, his disciples, may be, and they will take help from the diksa guru, because they are in the sadhana, on the way to the end. So, they’ll take the help of this mantra guru. Nama guru, mantra guru. Nama guru is Bhaktivedanta Swami and when he will take mantrum from any of his disciples, he will be his mantra guru.

Jayapataka Maharaja:
So, they will offer respect to both, a disciple will offer respect to both-nama guru and mantra guru?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Mantra guru. Then there is also sannyasa guru. Sannyasa guru is also in the stage-sannyasa or babaji state - that is also a guru. Guru-ONE IN MANY FORMS-siksa guru. Siksa guru. atamat ta mantra gurun siksa gurun.

Devotee: guru bhagavat tadan.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: guru bhagavat tadan avare haritaki, vande ‘ham sri guru sri gurun. Tamal Krsna Maharaja was saying that the other day, “vande ‘ham sri gurun sri yuta pada kamalan sri gurun vaisnavams ca. Sri gurun . . . plural."

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: Plural

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Plural - vaisnavams ca, one all.

Jayapataka Maharaja: What is the difference between siksa guru and diksa guru?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Diksa guru, siksa-guruke ta’ jani krsnera svarupa (CC Adi 1.47). Caitanya Caritamrta. Siksa guru both extension of Krsna. Guru is Krsna, acaryam mam vijaniyam. Krsna has come there to liberate me, in different appearance, representations. He is coming, Krsna coming, oneness in variegated position.

[PADA: Krishna is coming to us in the form of conditioned souls posing as gurus? How is that possible? How can a conditioned soul act as the liberating acharya principle, when he is himself not liberated? Acaryam mam vijnaniyam means one is the same as Krishna in quality, conditioned souls are the same in quality as Krishna?]

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: (Background): Who can be a siksa guru, who is qualified?

Jayapataka Maharaja: who is qualified to be a siksa guru?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: What does he speak?

Jayapataka Maharaja: Who is qualified? (Bengali): Siksa guru ha upa yukta ke?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Whoever sincerely will help me to go towards Krsna, he is siksa guru. Vaisnava is also siksa guru, vaisnavas. Vaisnavas, siksa guru. Who will come in my connection and will help me to go forward, he is siksa guru. Vartma pradarsaka. And there is vartma pradarsaka, siksa guru, mantra guru, nama guru, then sannyasa guru.

[PADA: Yes the vartma pradarsaka (shows the way) guru might be a neophyte, or anyone who has a little faith in Krishna. Yes, this may apply even a neophyte, but that does not mean we can telescope the neophyte with the acharya. The Church layman cannot be telescoped to the status of Jesus, that is not possible. Nor is it even sensible.]

Jayapataka Maharaja: What is the relationship between a sannyasi and his sannyasa guru.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That is the tathasta, whom I am much indebted for my spiritual progress, who will help me most in my spiritual progress, there we shall find the main guru. Otherwise, through whom the maximum grace will come to me to take me towards the Supreme entity, he is the…

[PADA: Sridhara Maharaja folks are claiming that the souls originate in the tatastha region, which he says is the brahmajyoti. Yet Srila Prabhupada says this is the mayavada idea. In any case, its not clear what Sridhara Maharaja is saying here, we are indebted to the tatastha guru? 

This makes no sense? We shall find the main guru in the tatastha. What does this mean? A lot of what he says is clearly mumbo jumbo. Srila Prabhupada says tatastha means the unsteady nature of the jeeva souls who may migrate to the material world, and how is that a process that describes Krishna and His gurus?]

Dev (background: Who is the main guru?)

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: …supreme guru.

Jayapataka Maharaja: What is their relationship of sannyasi and his sannyasa guru-just like a siksa guru?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: First guru, vartma pradarsaka guru is the first guru, who shows the way. He may leave, otherwise, the mantra guru, nama guru, if I am accepted by any nama guru, then as long as the nama guru is present, I am getting only one guru, and after his departure if sannyasa guru or mantra guru comes then I shall offer all my regards to him seeing the representative of the previous guru. Do you follow?

Assembly: Yes.

Jayapataka Maharaja: In the presence of the . . .

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Representative, only vartma pradarska maybe present before the real guru.

TKG (background): He may remain.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: And other gurus cannot be present, with the diksa guru. Nama guru or diksa guru, that will be one and the same.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Whoever the nama guru is, he should also consequently be…

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: If nama guru is living, then he should be mantra guru, he should be sannyasa guru.

Jayapataka Maharaja:

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Everything, everything. And the ritviks are but vartma pradarsaka guru. When he was living, he appointed so many ritviks, representatives, they are really, they are vartma pradarsaka. Do you follow?

Jayapataka Maharaja: Vartma pradarsaka.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That, they are showing, they are showing, indicating the way to the guru.

Jayapataka Maharaja: At which stage is the karma accepted by the guru?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: When the guru first accepts the disciple, then he will take the charge. Diksa, Bhagavate. Diksa is nama diksa. Pancaratric diksa, mantra diksa, at the time of diksa, initiation, the guru accepts him as he is, accepting the charge to wash away the sins, by his instructions. santevas saucindate mana basangam itibi

[PADA: So they understand that their diksha gurus are taking karma. Various people have tried to argue with PADA that the GBC was not aware that they were going to be absorbing karma, but here its clear -- they did know.

First of all, a conditioned soul cannot be a diksha guru because he cannot absorb other's sins. Srila Prabhupda says if we neophytes absorb sins we will fall down, get sick or both. Many of them died, and thus -- there has been an epidemic of sickness, fall down and premature death. Srila Prabhupada told us also not to even allow other people to touch our feet for the same reason, we will be acting as gurus and we will get sick, fall down or both from taking sins. In the original 1978 talks with Sridhara Maharaja he told them, you will be taking their sins if you take the post of diksha gurus. 

So they knew that all along. Of course as soon as I said, Srila Prabhupada said we cannot absorb sins, I was exiled to the netherlands. OK and the result was, they got sick, fell down, died, created huge public media scandals, enormous lawsuits, police raids and who knows what else. Srila Prabhupada said a neophyte cannot absorb sins, and -- he is 100 percent correct. Of course that is another topic they ban me from discussing on their forums, so we discuss it elsewhere.

Dev (background): Harinama?

TKG (aside): Both, the karma is accepted for both, because he washes and cleans at that time.

[PADA: The karma is accepted by both initiations? True, the karma is accepted by the diksha guru in any initiation. Again, proves they know they are taking the karma of others.]

Dev (aside): At which time?

Tamal Krsna Maharaja:
Both initiations.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:
And the guru, he also does the function by the help of his guru, in this way the chain goes to Krsna but, tada bhaktave, the medium is so transparent that is, no time can be guru parampara. It goes to Krsna, in no time. So the guru should be transparent. Who has wholey given himself to his own guru, he is guru. The cent percent servant of his guru is guru. This is the criterion. Who has wholey dedicated himself to guru, he is guru. Whatever comes to him he already reaches to his guru, this transparent medium.

[PADA: If the guru is pure then the karma is transferred to Krishna, ok that is another issue. However if the guru cannot take the karma, there is the Vedic story of the snake being eaten by the ants. The snake was a former guru and the ants are the former disciples, and the ex-disciple ants are eating their ex-guru -- because he could not take their sins. So that means, both the bogus guru and his disciples will fail and have to suffer.]

Jayapataka Maharaja: And to whatever extent he is not surrendered, that much he won’t go forward, (Bengali): jatadur samarpen haya nama tatakun ara

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:
tatakun coming to opaque-coming to transparent.

Jayapataka Maharaja:

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Partially to opaque, partially to transparent. According to the transparency, guru should be recognized in tathasta vicar. Vijayate tathasta tata, that will be clearly. Tathasta-impartial judgement at the relative and the absolute, two sorts of judgement-absolute and relative.

[PADA: Wait a minute? The guru is going to be transparent to the absolute plane, therefore he is both absolute and relative truth simultaneously? How is the relative truth guru a transparent via media to the absolute plane?]

Jayapataka Maharaja: Yes.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: You see, just as in the worldly representation, my mother most affectionate to me, his mother is most affectionate to him, but when the comparison will be drawn between two mothers, who is more affectionate, that is another thing, will come. Relative and absolute, calculation. Absolute calculation will get the supermost hand.

[PADA: The neophyte is a preacher type of "guru" who is still opaque in certain ways because he is not pure yet. We should not be comparing the "conditioned by relative truth" neophytes with acharyas in the first place.] 

SPM: So.

TKG (Background): Next question.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That is to be done amongst you-both relative and absolute. Even a disciple, he may commit error. Disciple, when he is going to accept his guru, he may be erroneous. However, it is the duty of the other Vaisnavas to give him proper guidance. That should also come. In the consideration of absolute realization; these intricate points will arise.

[PADA: What happens when the other Vaishnavas are being banned, beaten, sued and assassinated when they advise people not to accept a relative truth contaminated soul as their guru?]

Jayapataka Maharaja: If the initiating guru, the Nama guru, say he falls down, just as we hear of one Maharaja . . . Say he falls down, from the path by act of providence, then what should the disciple do?

[PADA: They already know in advance their gurus will be falling down. Of course Srila Prabhupada says falling down people were never gurus in the first place. This shows how they were planning in advance to explain how their acharyas are falling down.]

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: He will take Name again and after-he may wait for some time. Because, if he was sincere first, he was a sincere disciple to his guru, first, now for some offenses he’s neglected by his guru for sometime, he maybe, here and there, astray, led astray. Then he may come again, after that. . . (Bengali conversation) . . . karyakaryam ajanatah, utpatha-prathipannasya, parityago vidhiyate. In Mahabharat, Visvanatha says, statement: Dasa Mahajana, one of Dasa Mahajanas is Bhisma. Bhisma says to Parasurama, he is astra guru. Astra guru, also deva guru, acarya guru. Jiva Goswami Prabhu has taken this example

guror apy avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah
utpatha-prathipannasya parityago vidhiyate

“A guru who does not know what is to be done and what is not to be done, who has left the path of devotional service, should be abandoned.”

Mahabharata (Udyoga-parva 179.25)

If he goes astray, then he should be left, but there may be circumstances for some time. By the inconceivable desire of Krsna he may go astray, and he may come back again, come back again. So, disciple may wait for some time.

[PADA: So now they are rationalizing that its common for acharyas to deviate, and in that case we should "wait and see" if they return to the path. Amazing, as the ISKCON devotees are being more and more banned, beaten, molested, sued and sometimes assassinated, we should simply "wait and see" as more victims are going into this process. 

Oddly, HKC Jaipur's Prahlad told me the same thing, as more and more children are getting abused and molested, we should simply sit back and "wait and see." And do nothing to help. What are we waiting for exactly? HKC folks and GBC agree, the people conducting the mass molesting regime are the "innocent people who will have to pay money" if their molesting empire is exposed. Oh boo hoo, we should not disturb the innocent mass molesting regime, rather let's "wait and see" as the list of victims is increased. 

Worship of deviants if not pedophiles is an innocent program, that we should "wait and see" as it victimizes more and more people, including children? Waiting for what? None of these people ever tells us. 

As one ex-kuli said, their house is on fire and they wanted to sit down and read the newspapers and "wait and see," as their whole house burnt to the ground and caused the suffering if not untimely departure of everyone else in the house. This sounds like a heartless process in any case. We should sit around and allow more and more police raids, bad media, victimization, molesting, scandals, lawsuits, murders, suicides, and "wait and see"? More than a few even ordinary "karmi" folks told me, these people have no feelings for others, they are like cruel heartless robots.]

Dev (Background): See if he comes back.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: And this is very unfortunate for the disciple when he gets such a test. In Harinama Cintamani, written by Bhaktivinode Thakur, you will find this elaborately described. Harinama Cintamani by Bhaktivinode Thakur, there we will find this guru tyaja chapter, how he has dealt with it carefully. Harinama Cintamani.

Jayapataka Maharaja: So, in ISKCON, there are many initiating gurus . . .

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Just as you see, if a son disobeys his father, then the father may be indifferent to the son and for sometime he may be [taken from the will] excluding him but after sometime, he sees that the son comes back, is obedient, then again he may correct his will, it may be like that.

api cet suduracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak

sadhur eva mantavyah samyag vyavasito hi sah

“Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.”

(Bhagavad-gita 9.30)

So, only very abruptly, we should not deal with such things of unfortunate incidence, wait and see. Generally, in his own zone, he will perform diksa, generally. But there should be special arrangement. Aki mandire… (Bengali)

[PADA: Gita 9:30 does not apply to false gurus, its a benediction for the falling neophytes. A special arrangement should be made for when their gurus fall down, that means they knew their gurus would be falling down from the get go, and so does Sridhara Maharaja.]

Jayapataka Maharaja: Now, are five disciples in one temple, each with a different guru of these eleven. (Bengali) The pictures on the altar, different things, how will these be managed? How they would?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Then, the arcak, who is performing the worship, he will worship his, the portrait of his own guru as guru, and other gurus as Vaisnava, he will worship. Do you follow?

[PADA: So we have to have photos on the altars, of people are conditioned souls, who may fall down? However we cannot offer bhogha to a conditioned neophyte even if he is not so-called fallen, its not possible to offer bhogha to the layman and have it accepted.]

Jayapataka Maharaja: Yes, and those pictures will be put on far left side?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes, they should be in a position that should be adjusted. They should be dealt as Vaisnava, after guru puja.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Guru puja.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: After his own guru puja, he will perform guru puja and others and then Vaisnava puja. The other gurus will come in the rank of Vaisnava guru.

Jayapataka Maharaja: So everyone’s picture could be there, all of the…

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: All the portraits could be there.

Jayapataka Maharaja: And he will worship his own guru as guru.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: One guru as guru and the others as Vaisnava. Vaisnava siksa guru.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: But, you may start with your gurudeva, Swami Maharaja, in the center and others as parsada. You must start in this way now. Then the time will help you gradually.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Thank you. Those mandirs which Srila Prabhupad, our Bhaktivedanta…

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:
Prabhupada in the center, group photo, manage in this way, Prabhupada in the center and all others, who will initiate, those that will initiate, as parsada.

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: This is in the main branches or in the sub-branches? This is in the main Math or everywhere?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: This will be maintained everywhere.

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: Everywhere.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: Group photo.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:
Synthesis will help you most. As much as we can synthesize that will come to help you more.

Jayapataka Maharaja: The disciples of our gurus picture, shouldn’t be on the Vyasasana. It was suggested that if that Vyasasana was kept for Prabhupada, a second Vyasasana for others could be installed. This was one idea, we do not know what is the proper etiquette.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That asana should not be occupied by any of the disciples, because the disciples who are initiating, the initiating disciples, present guru, he will also regard his guru as superior to him. So he cannot occupy that seat. Do you follow?

Even his picture?

Jayapataka Maharaja: Similarly, his picture should not occupy. (Bengali)

Background assembly: A little picture on the bottom.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: (Bengali) Just next to that seat, the present gurus seat should be given, should be placed.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Second seat.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Second seat, should be given to the initiating guru, present initiating guru.

Jayapataka Maharaja: So, on the original vyasasana, no picture, or…

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: The picture of Swami Maharaja, a picture will be introduced there and just a little below, nearest seat will be for the present acarya. The present disciple will say that he is giving honor to his own guru. That, will rather impress the disciple, that even the siddha guru, he is also giving respect to his own guru. This way, I must learn. A guru should be always kept above.

Jayapataka Maharaja: But in those temples which are now newly established, by zonal guru, in that place then, this would not be required? (Bengali)

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Even in new organization also, the same thing will go on, because whatever you are creating, that is with the impression, first impression with him, from him.

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: Thats a fact.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That will all come within, within the same administration.

Jayapataka Maharaja:
So, when the, such disciple does guru puja at these asanas, then he will first do the puja to his guru and then to his guru.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Then his, his guru, the Deities and afterwards all other gurus or Vaisnavas.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Vaisnavas are after the Deities.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: After the Deities.

Jayapataka Maharaja: Which mantra?

Tamal Krsna Maharaja:
Just like if Jayapataka gives one of his new men initiation-if Jayapataka Swami gives diksa to somebody, how that sisya will offer his pramans to Jayapataka, in what words, what mantra?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: In ordinary mantra of guru puja, until and unless his disciples compile a mantra, a special mantra for him, he is not to go to arrange the mantra or pranam, but when his disciples will come and make a mantra for guru-puja, they will do like that, otherwise a general mantra:

om ajnana-timirandhasya jnanjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurve namah

[ I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance, with the torchlight of knowledge. ]

With this ordinary common mantra, it will be performed, but when his disciples will come to such a stage as to compose a special mantra for him, which has special characteristic mentioned there, then they will perform with that mantra.

Jayapataka Maharaja: To say, nama om visnupadaya . . . (Bengali)

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes, that may be, sisya will always say that, visnupada, the representative of Visnu.

Jayapataka Maharaja: That’s a general mantra.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: He is in the feet of Krsna. nama om vishupadaya . . . common and other things where the sisya will see in the guru that should be mentioned there, special characteristics, that may be general and visnupadaya, krsna prestaya bhutale, it is all common.

[PADA: This is where they started using their PADA titles. Anyway, this shows where the GBC got a lot of their ideas. And now the GBC, Tripurari, Janardan (Pancadravida), and others are still promoting all this. ys pd]


1 comment:

  1. Yes, that makes a lot of sense prabhu. We cannot go after the leaders, because we have to "wait and see," giving them the unlimited benefit of doubt. And we cannot go after the followers, because they are innocent. Who are the bad guys in this scenario? The victims and anyone representing the victims. Right! ys pd


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