Padmagarbha das: Krsna Kirtan, as I pointed out earlier, your arguments in defense of KB Swami being a qualified and authorized Acarya / diksha guru are practically identical to those of the disciples of especially Gour Govinda, and Tripurari, but also of the rest of iskcon's gurus. Over the years I've had conversations with countless "disciples" of iskcon's various "gurus", and you be surprised [I certainly was] how many of them claim that most, if not all of iskcon's gurus are bogus, unqualified, but how fortunate "they" are, that "their" own particular guru is a pure devotee.
"Contemplating the objects of the [material] senses, attachment arises......." the predicament of the false ego. -------------- Again, on the subject of chastity, yes, so we agree that it pertains to the spiritual master as a person. However, Srila Prabhupada stated that there is NO difference between him and his instructions, and there is absolutely no doubt what his instructions "to his disciples" [not to an institution] were, regarding initiations after his "physical" disappearance.
In the "recorded" May 28th conversation Srila Prabhupada leaves absolutely no room for "interpetation" as to what arrangements he intended us to follow. And by the way, there were many other conversations in which Srila Prabhupada expressed and elaborated on his desire for a "ritvik system" of initiations after his departure. Prabhus, to name a few, like Pita dasa, Yasodananda, Gauridasa Pandit [his service was it to record all of Srila Prabhupada's spoken words], Hamsadutta, and even Tamal [as "confessed" in the famous Topanga talks], they all have testified to that fact.
Unfortunately a very large percentage of the recordings from that period in Vrndavan were never seen again. As I had heard, Tamal claimed that those tapes had been destroyed in a fire in St.Louis. How convenient! What were the tapes doing in St. Louis, all tapes were always send to the BBT archives in Los Angeles.------ As to the July 9th letter [which is but the written "official" confirmation of the prior verbal instructions], you point out, and so have others, that it was not only written by Tamal [rather than Srila Prabhupada], but that the letter was most likely "a forged document".
First of all, the letter was "actually" signed by Srila Prabhupada [practically ALL of Srila Prabhupada's letters were written by his secretary, and then signed by him]; and are you therefore suggesting that Srila Prabhupada was unaware of what he was signing? Had Tamal intended to "forge" a letter/document to establish that Srila Prabhupada wanted some of his leading men to become diksha gurus after his departure, Tamal would have used paper with Srila Prabhupada's 'letter head' rather than his own.
And he certainly would NOT have written that Srila Prabhupada wanted the ritvik system of Initiations "henceforward", but instead Tamal would have, if not stating it directly, he certainly would have "hinted" [left room for interpretation] at the ritvik system being only a temporary arrangement, until Srila Prabhupada's disappearance. Why would Tamal even dare to "forge" a document on July 9th, 1977, four months prior to Srila Prabhupada's passing, without it getting "back" to Srila Prabhupada.
After all, copies of this letter went to ALL the zones world wide. ... You argue that Srila Prabhupada's ritvik order was an instruction for his institution, rather than his disciples. How impersonal can you get! I guess you are also suggesting that ALL of Srila Prabhupada's instructions [the four regs, 16 rounds, etc., etc.] were all for his "institution", and if one wanted to get around following Srila Prabhupada's orders, yet still being able to consider himself a disciple of His Divine Grace, he just needs to start his own institution. Preposterous! .
.............. I find it actually outrageous and MOST offensive how you brush aside Srila Prabhupada's standart [order] that one is NOT HIS DISCIPLE if he has 'long hair', and you suggesting that this order is not applicable to KB Swami, since he is a Brijbasi. As Srila Prabhupada points out, all the previous Acaryas, including Lord Caitanya [after he took Sanyasa] had shaven heads.
You also state that one can not compare KB Swami with iskcon's gurus, my only response to that "wet stool, dry stool, still stool"! ............ As far as Srila Prabhupada stating that "there won't be another Acarya after him, that was told to me by then Rohini Kumar Swami, who was personally present when Srila Prabhupada said this. Hearing from an actual witness of an event is NOT hearsay, it is testimony. If you don't wish to accept this, that is your "convenient" choice. .......... And I have to agree with PD, KB Swami wholeheartedly went along with promoting the "bogus guru system" in iskcon until about 1988, for over ten years.
This was LONG after it had become most clear to many of us "ex, meat eating hippies" [including me] that there was something seriously "Rotten in Denmark". KB Swami's "awakening" did not occur until after his, in my opinion, most unjust and scandalous excommunication by the vile cabal that had usurped Srila Prabhupada's authority in ISKCON.
PADA: Agreed, the Krishna Kirtan arguments are the same as those offered by the Tripurari swami, Gaura Govinda, Sridhara maharaja, Naryayana maharaja etc al. folks, ... "Well jeepers, our guru only went along with the GBC to promote cooperation" and blah and blah and blah. Unfortunately, this cooperation enabled and empowered the bogus regime and made them far more dangerous, and this cooperation allowed much higher levels of exploiting and abuses.
Of course NOW all these people will say, "Well jeepers, we were with you all along, we also protested." Hee hee, well yes, but you folks protested ONLY after we exposed how bad the regime was. Srila Prabhupada also orders -- his sannyasas have to be clean shaven, KB swami cannot even follow the basic instructions much less realize the higher principles. And that is also why KB swami is preaching against the Western birth devotees, we made him look very foolish for going along with the GBC, so now he is attacking us out of grudge. Instead of just saying, ok these guys figured this out way before I did, he wants to attack us to make himself look greater. This is very kindergarten grudge mentality. Srila Prabhupada preached against this India birth and bodily identity program, KB swami is defying the acharyas.