KD
Breaking news on the changed books issue:
Garuda Prabhu aka Graham M. Schweig writing:
Here’s the updated version of the proposed symposium:
ACADEMIC SYMPOSIUM (proposed)
On the Problem of Posthumous Editing:
The Instance of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda’s Works of Translation and Commentary.
Symposium Organizer, Graham M. Schweig
Sponsored by
The Mira & Ajay Shingal Center for Dharma Studies
At the Graduate Theological Union
Spring 2019 or Fall 2019
This conference will bring together about fifteen scholars to examine how the posthumous editing of leading authors within religious communities has been handled and to look at how it could be or should be handled. Specifically, the theological, ethical, social dimensions will be addressed, and also the legal and professional aspects of publishing will be considered. The specific instance of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and the extensive posthumous editing of his work will be the major focus of this conference.
In the Hare Krishna movement, a controversy has been building for at least two decades regarding the editing of Prabhupāda’s books: after Prabhupāda’s departure from this world, the principle editors claim that his works need fairly extensive editing, both for style and philosophical clarity and consistency, while there are other senior disciples who object to anything more than the absolute minimal editing. Generally speaking, how much or how little editing should any published author expect of his or her works after they have departed this world? In the case of Prabhupāda’s works specifically, what compelling theological and devotional underpinnings are involved with each side of the issue?
What were the various general and also personal instructions given by the author to his followers? What were the challenges for the editors who sought to present his works appropriately to the greater readership? These and other questions will be addressed by those in the field of textual and historical scholarship on the worldwide Krishna movement and on other areas relevant to the conference theme. The presentations offered at this conference will be compiled and reviewed for publication with a fine academic press.
This conference will be closed to the public and only those invited scholars who participate in the conference will be present.
And YES! A book will come out of this event.
Now I just need to find $20k to cover costs.
Daso ‘smi premni,
Garuda Das
[PADA: Oh oh! $20K to cover costs. That sounds like a non-starter. The GBC does not care and the people who do care generally are the poor rank and file.]
JD: Yes, I talked to Torben Nielsen prabhu. He is a Good devotee.
[PADA: Except Torben says the people who are printing and distributing original books (the ritviks) are bogus and we still need to work with the GBC's gurus (the SAME people whose process is changing and editing the books).
Yep! He is still promoting the book changers process. Worse, Toben wants us to tell our children to worship these foolish people in the book changer sabha as their gurus. He says we are bogus to tell our children to worship Srila Prabhupada as their guru, because they do not have "living guidance." Right, guidance to -- where?]
Torben Nielsen: It is somehow funny that it has come to this. Srila Prabhupada has already concluded what to do and not to do. That is not accepted by the 'authorities', depending on definition of course. Will the scholars conclude something that the 'authorities' can accept? Will their conclusions be different than Srila Prabhupada´s?
What is wrong with an OPEN hearing?? Remember the changes were endorsed and participated in by scholars.
DL: When Srila Prabhupada's disciples and those who aspired to be his disciples ---- when these persons were seduced by the Ruling Elites of the world, they gave up their quest for Krishna Consciousness, and surrendered to the wishy washy ways of the three modes of material nature.
But Krishna says "I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by Yoga Maya ( my creative material energy): and thus the deluded world knows me not, Who am unborn and infallible.
There is not firm determination within the hearts of the elite ISKCON leadership, except they are determined for some paultry material acquisitions. Beyond cognitive dissonance these are the all too apparent facts -- philosophically understood beyond our stupid sentimentalism.
The books have each and every one been wholly and fully corrupted, but why? "In the minds of those who are too much attached to material opulences and are illusioned thereby; the resolute determination for devotional service does not take place."
Thus swept along by place, by power, and by peer pressure not one single guru ( no guru ) or GBC member has any interest in the restoration of Srila Prabhupada's original books.
With all due respect Graham M. Schweig wake up and realize more and more that we should not fear death but yet we should "Fear not those who can kill the body - but rather fear those who can kill both body and soul in Hell.
More to come!
[PADA: OK our point exactly. None of Torben's "gurus" are working to get the original books, at least none who we know of so far. Worse, Torben's "gurus" are the people facilitating the changed books.]
Torben Nielsen: And still are.
[PADA: Well right, Toben's gurus have been deviants and still are.]
JJ: I sincerely believe that the uneducated, but submissive, disciple would be the higher authority in deciding how to repair the damage done. Sadly this is going to be nothing more than a contest for a few who might secure a position in their future.
TA: Wow a whole Symposium costing $20K to discuss a matter that is so clear if one follows Srila Prabhupada's instructions. That money could buy a lot of books!!
Srila Prabhupada: "The nonsense, they are correcting my translations. Rascal. The rascal editors, they are doing havoc. So you bring this to Satsvarupa. They cannot change anything … So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it? It is very serious situation. You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to the original way." (Conversation, “Rascal Editors” – June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
Kim Møller: We shall applause any attempt to correct this nonsense, so we are happy that some sincere devotees actually take this matter up on a sober level, too much damage has been done by well meaning fools.
[PADA: Hee hee, good, Torben and Kim Mollers gurus are "well meaning fools." Yes! Why can't the GBC discuss issues with us citizens, and there has to be some other means? Ys pd]
Breaking news on the changed books issue:
Garuda Prabhu aka Graham M. Schweig writing:
Here’s the updated version of the proposed symposium:
ACADEMIC SYMPOSIUM (proposed)
On the Problem of Posthumous Editing:
The Instance of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda’s Works of Translation and Commentary.
Symposium Organizer, Graham M. Schweig
Sponsored by
The Mira & Ajay Shingal Center for Dharma Studies
At the Graduate Theological Union
Spring 2019 or Fall 2019
This conference will bring together about fifteen scholars to examine how the posthumous editing of leading authors within religious communities has been handled and to look at how it could be or should be handled. Specifically, the theological, ethical, social dimensions will be addressed, and also the legal and professional aspects of publishing will be considered. The specific instance of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and the extensive posthumous editing of his work will be the major focus of this conference.
In the Hare Krishna movement, a controversy has been building for at least two decades regarding the editing of Prabhupāda’s books: after Prabhupāda’s departure from this world, the principle editors claim that his works need fairly extensive editing, both for style and philosophical clarity and consistency, while there are other senior disciples who object to anything more than the absolute minimal editing. Generally speaking, how much or how little editing should any published author expect of his or her works after they have departed this world? In the case of Prabhupāda’s works specifically, what compelling theological and devotional underpinnings are involved with each side of the issue?
What were the various general and also personal instructions given by the author to his followers? What were the challenges for the editors who sought to present his works appropriately to the greater readership? These and other questions will be addressed by those in the field of textual and historical scholarship on the worldwide Krishna movement and on other areas relevant to the conference theme. The presentations offered at this conference will be compiled and reviewed for publication with a fine academic press.
This conference will be closed to the public and only those invited scholars who participate in the conference will be present.
And YES! A book will come out of this event.
Now I just need to find $20k to cover costs.
Daso ‘smi premni,
Garuda Das
[PADA: Oh oh! $20K to cover costs. That sounds like a non-starter. The GBC does not care and the people who do care generally are the poor rank and file.]
JD: Yes, I talked to Torben Nielsen prabhu. He is a Good devotee.
[PADA: Except Torben says the people who are printing and distributing original books (the ritviks) are bogus and we still need to work with the GBC's gurus (the SAME people whose process is changing and editing the books).
Yep! He is still promoting the book changers process. Worse, Toben wants us to tell our children to worship these foolish people in the book changer sabha as their gurus. He says we are bogus to tell our children to worship Srila Prabhupada as their guru, because they do not have "living guidance." Right, guidance to -- where?]
Torben Nielsen: It is somehow funny that it has come to this. Srila Prabhupada has already concluded what to do and not to do. That is not accepted by the 'authorities', depending on definition of course. Will the scholars conclude something that the 'authorities' can accept? Will their conclusions be different than Srila Prabhupada´s?
What is wrong with an OPEN hearing?? Remember the changes were endorsed and participated in by scholars.
DL: When Srila Prabhupada's disciples and those who aspired to be his disciples ---- when these persons were seduced by the Ruling Elites of the world, they gave up their quest for Krishna Consciousness, and surrendered to the wishy washy ways of the three modes of material nature.
But Krishna says "I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by Yoga Maya ( my creative material energy): and thus the deluded world knows me not, Who am unborn and infallible.
There is not firm determination within the hearts of the elite ISKCON leadership, except they are determined for some paultry material acquisitions. Beyond cognitive dissonance these are the all too apparent facts -- philosophically understood beyond our stupid sentimentalism.
The books have each and every one been wholly and fully corrupted, but why? "In the minds of those who are too much attached to material opulences and are illusioned thereby; the resolute determination for devotional service does not take place."
Thus swept along by place, by power, and by peer pressure not one single guru ( no guru ) or GBC member has any interest in the restoration of Srila Prabhupada's original books.
With all due respect Graham M. Schweig wake up and realize more and more that we should not fear death but yet we should "Fear not those who can kill the body - but rather fear those who can kill both body and soul in Hell.
More to come!
[PADA: OK our point exactly. None of Torben's "gurus" are working to get the original books, at least none who we know of so far. Worse, Torben's "gurus" are the people facilitating the changed books.]
Torben Nielsen: And still are.
[PADA: Well right, Toben's gurus have been deviants and still are.]
JJ: I sincerely believe that the uneducated, but submissive, disciple would be the higher authority in deciding how to repair the damage done. Sadly this is going to be nothing more than a contest for a few who might secure a position in their future.
TA: Wow a whole Symposium costing $20K to discuss a matter that is so clear if one follows Srila Prabhupada's instructions. That money could buy a lot of books!!
Srila Prabhupada: "The nonsense, they are correcting my translations. Rascal. The rascal editors, they are doing havoc. So you bring this to Satsvarupa. They cannot change anything … So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it? It is very serious situation. You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to the original way." (Conversation, “Rascal Editors” – June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
Kim Møller: We shall applause any attempt to correct this nonsense, so we are happy that some sincere devotees actually take this matter up on a sober level, too much damage has been done by well meaning fools.
[PADA: Hee hee, good, Torben and Kim Mollers gurus are "well meaning fools." Yes! Why can't the GBC discuss issues with us citizens, and there has to be some other means? Ys pd]
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