RE: Tribhuvanath Das (UK)

TRIBHUVANATH DAS: So therefore if you don’t study the scriptures how will you know what you are surrendering to? You’re not even giving yourself a choice because you don’t even know what you are surrendering to isn’t it. Some people say "Oh, I’ve lost faith!” Faith in what? Do you understand my point? Faith in what? Something you didn’t even know you should have faith in, if you don’t study the sastras, then how can you know what you should have faith in. What to speak of having faith. You don’t even know what you should have faith in. So that’s why we suffer because we don’t even know what it is we should believe in because we haven’t taken that step of entering into the transcendental nature of Vedic literature.

SB 3.19.34 Our Training is in Sound - Birmingham, 22 Aug 97

=====================

[PADA: Tribhuvanath told me that Jayatirtha is a total crack pot and he was never going to surrender to him or the GBC that supports him. I said offering bhogha to this Jayatirtha is wrong and not authorized, and he told me he only offers his bhogha to Prabhupada. He told me I was right to challenge this foolishness. 

He told me he would rather sleep in his car in the parking lot of the Hindu temples, and he was doing that while I was living in UK. I sometimes gave him 50 quid because he had little money for petrol. I said at the time we have to worship Prabhupada, and he gave me a big smile and said, that's the only safe position to have. And we have been proven right in spades, the only pure sound we can truly rely on are the words of the pure acharya Srila Prabhupada. 

Of course he is also right, the reason people in ISKCON are suffering is because they do not study the shastra. The problem of course is that as soon as anyone reads the shastra, and decides to worship the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada as their acharya, then they are banned, beaten, excommunicated and maybe sometimes -- killed. So what happens when -- no one is allowed to follow the shastra?   

I also believe Tribhuvanath is like hundreds and hundreds of my brothers and sisters who departed their bodies prematurely. They just did not want to participate in the GBC's dog and pony guru party, and so they left the scene -- permanently. The good news is that Krishna always sorts everything out in the end, and thus they will be allowed to continue in the next realm because their desire is to serve Krishna and His pure acharya. Krishna will fulfil their desires, of this there is no doubt.

ys pd]

O Krishna, I am Missing You (video)

Mahabharata With English Subtitles (Eps-65)

ISKCON Sandy Ridge NC Adopts Debauchee's Guru Sampradaya

Illicit sex debauchees are: Krishna's guru successors?

ISKCON Sandy Ridge North Carolina:

For that reason, simply adopting ISKCON policy and having the support of higher authority does make local management a lot easier. Admittedly, however, there was some reluctance in the community about being subjected to the ultimate authority of ISKCON's leaders, given the mistakes that devotees had witnessed in the past. We began to ask ourselves some key questions:

[PADA: Oh great, so now the "ISKCON Sandy Ridge" folks are establishing that we need to surrender to the GBC "guru" people, those who are saying that acharyas are making many mistakes, never mind their acharyas are often debauchees. Of course this is not a mistake, the GBC says acharyas are often debauchees purposefully. That is their intent, to establish that the guru parampara from Krishna is defective and fallen.  

Srila Prabhupada says anyone who thinks acharyas are ordinary mistaken men are residents of narakah. If the acharya is making many mistakes, and the acharya is often a debauchee, as the GBC and now Sandy Ridge has hooked their wagon to, that invalidates everything else the acharya says and does. 

Why should we read the books of the acharya, if acharyas are mistaken and debauchees? They are trying as hard as they can to DISCREDIT the acharyas and KRISHNA. If saying that Lord Krishna's gurus are often fallen is a mistake, when was this mistake rectified? It never has been.]

1. Is ISKCON still a viable entity?

2. Would the majority of devotees participate if we elected to remain officially ISKCON?

3. If we disagree with certain policies or practices within ISKCON, are we likely to invoke positive change or make any difference at all by separating ourselves or by joining another mission or group?

4. What would Srila Prabhupada want us to do?

[PADA: The post-1977 GBC folks say their messiahs / gurus / acharyas are often caught engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. Why does ISKCON Sandy Ridge want to form an association with the same people who have maintained that the Jesus-like messiahs from God and heaven -- are often sexual predators, and / or drug addicts and /or  criminals etc.? 

Where does Srila Prabhupada say we should worship illicit sex with men, women and children as our guru lineage? And why is ISKCON Sandy Ridge apparently now teaching their children that Gods' guru successors / acharyas / messiahs are often debauchees, which is what the post-1977 GBC's folks say all the time? Srila Prabhupada wanted us to worship a guru lineage of mistakes and sexual predators as our messiahs?] 

With a little research, the answers to these questions become obvious. ISKCON is a thriving, growing institution and many progressive changes have been made over the years reflecting maturity and sincerity of purpose.

[PADA: ISKCON says gurus / acharyas are engaged in illicit sex, that is "progressive" all right, its progressive sahajiya-ism, progressive new age secularism, materialism etc., and this has nothing to do with our teachings. That is what the supporters of gay marriage call themselves, "the progressives." Progressing to where?

Why is it that teaching people that God's successors are often debauchees is "a thriving religion"? Its not thriving at all, its being rejected by the mass of Prabhupada devotees, most of the ex-kulis and the mass of public. Oh swell, saying that God's gurus and successors are often debauchees shows "maturity and sincerity of purpose." Really? Even dogs do not worship debauchees as their messiahs? Are dogs more sincere than these people?

We all know that one of Srila Prabhupada's final requests was that we demonstrate our love for him by cooperating with one another, but he never advocated blind following. 

[PADA: So why are you blindly surrendering to and accepting the Hrdayananda and debauchee acharyas process?]

The term "checks and balances" as used by Srila Prabhupada indicates the need for internal communication. By maintaining proper forums for respectful discussion, with the aim of preserving the integrity of Srila Prabhupada's movement as well as enriching our spiritual understanding, ISKCON will remain the most widespread and authoritative presentation of Gaudiya Vaisnavism on the planet.

[PADA: Oh great, worship of debauchees as acharyas is "authoritative." Ummm, even dogs and the dog eater class of people do not worship illicit sex debauchees as their messiahs.]

We are therefore pleased to announce that by unanimous decision of the temple board, along with the encouragement of other members of the community, the TOTHN has officially joined ISKCON by signing the ISKCON bylaws, thus establishing a permanent, non-changeable identity for our temple.

[PADA: The ISKCON bylaws essentially say we have to surrender to their debauchee acharyas parampara.]

We are hoping to attract like-minded devotees who are willing to cooperate within ISKCON to help establish our community as an example of "simple living and high thinking". Please visit us at iskconpv.org.

Jaya Gaurasundara dasa
Temple President
ISKCON of Sandy Ridge
Temple of the Holy Name in Prabhupada Village

[PADA: Prabhupada village has now officially signed onto the Hrdayananda gay marriage and gay messiah's sampradaya. Swell! Well at least they are admitting they want to teach the world to worship illicit sex with men, women and children as their guru lineage by "following GBC bylaws." Did we forget to mention that as soon as anyone says debauchees are not messiahs. then the Sandy Ridge GBC ilk will sue that person for $20,000,000 to stop them from worshiping Prabhupada, and try to force them to worship their debauchees' "God's successors" process -- instead of Prabhupada? 

And we also need to accept Hrdayananda's gay marriage Krishna West program too? And we need to surrender to the people who buried a known sexual predator criminal like Kirtanananda in the holy dham? Hee hee, this means these Sandy Ridge people have never read the books of the acharya, he says worship of a debauchee guru lineage takes one straight to the lower planets, he never authorized this process. This is written in Yamaraja's bylaws. ys pd]

New Prabhupadanugas Worldwide Web Site

http://prabhupadanugasworldwide.org/

[PADA: This site plans to include some "how to" videos to show people how to do bhogha offerings, deity pooja, fire sacrifices, kirtan, bhajan, playing devotional instruments and so on. If you have some of these types of videos you'd like to have placed here -- please -- send them here. A lot of people simply do not have access to the bona fide way these things are meant to be done.

This site is meant to be be a neutral "networking platform" for any and all Prabhupadanugas worldwide, so helpful additions will be welcomed. Its still basically "under construction" so please be patient as it is developed more in future.

PADA began using the title name "Written by the Prabhupadanugas" on the front page of our earlier papers, starting around 1985. At that time, there were no other devotees calling themselves "Prabhupadanugas" -- at least not in any other public essays, documents or forums etc. that we ever saw at that time.

And there were no other "Prabhupadanugas" writing for us and co-authoring our earlier papers either, we just used that title hoping that one day there would be a group of Prabhupadanugas, and its sort of happening now. Yep, more and more people are using that title to describe themselves these days, so the term is catching on.  

PS: Any "how to" videos you have (or you make in future) which you would like to see posted right here can also be published by sending the links to angel108b@yahoo.com  Mucho Thanks! ys pd]  

Devotee Job? Drive for Uber!

A Luxury or SUV vehicle gets higher Uber pay rate.

Hare Krishna Dear Devotees,

We all know how difficult it is to make ends meet sometimes in this world. We often end up burning the candle at both ends, struggling for existence, as it were. This is especially true if we lived in an ashram for many years serving guru and Krishna and had no chance to develop a trade or skill with which to enter household life. This was my situation many years ago.

Recently, my wife and I found a solution to this enigma, both working part-time for UBER, the taxi service alternative that has become popular within the last few years all over the world. We drive our own days and hours as is convenient for us and make a significant weekly income simply picking people up and driving them from place to place. And being semi-retired this is an ideal way for us to earn some supplemental income so we have time to focus on our spiritual services and personal sadhana.

I’m not saying this is for everyone, but if you would like more information about how you too can add a needed source of income to your household, please get in touch with me and I will be happy to tell you all I can, the good and the bad, so you can make an educated decision. Additionally, if you become an Uber driver through my advice both you and I will receive a nice start-up bonus.

My email address is sunandadas.108@gmail.com

Please note this is only applicable for devotees and friends in the United States.

Yours in Srila Prabhupada’s service,
Sunanda das

[PADA: Pretty much what we did for a few years, driving a San Francisco Taxi. Jayananda also drove a Taxi. Its not really hard work and its pretty independent, so its a pretty fair solution for devotees. Anyway, thanks Sunanda, its a pretty tough place to be in the material world at all, especially for devotees who have to eke out their own existence. This might work out for some devotees. ys pd]  

Mother Hladini -- Brave Daughter of Srila Prabhupada

http://iskconbangalore.co.in/hladini-devi-the-brave-fearless-daughter-of-srila-prabhupada/

ISKCON Flirts With Sahajiya-vada

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GwpDilwiC4

PADA: This is a pattern. The GBC went to the Gaudiya Matha for "rasika instructions." Indradyumna, Satsvarupa, Tamal, Shivarama, Mahanidhi and others were associated with various Bababjis. Disciples of Ananta Vasudeva were welcomed into ISKCON temples. Gaura Govinda maharaja had the photo of his rasika guru on his temple's altars. Jayatirtha was going to introduce the "Peace Krishnas" based on his Gaudiya Matha friends ideas. Narayan Maharaja, BV and BP Puri and others became "advisors" to the GBC ... and so on and so forth. 

This "outside authority" problem has been going on for years, we are glad that some people are catching up and protesting. This is not what Srila Prabhupada wanted and ordered for his society. ys pd]       

"White People" Cannot Perform Kirtana?

Kirtana is for all jeeva souls

http://www.newsgram.com/in-brown-university-usa-students-protest-kirtan-singing-by-white-woman-not-born-hindu/

[PADA: This shows how badly some so-called Hindus have misunderstood their own culture. Hari nama kirtana is for all jeeva souls, its not confined to a particular caste, birth, or bodily designation. Wow! This shows how much mercy we got from Srila Prabhupada, he was apparently a very rare person who understood that kirtana is universal, its for all souls all over this universe and beyond. These Hindus should be glad at least someone is carrying on their culture while they are studying mundane topics at college. ys pd] 

Nectar Milk of Bhagavad Gita (Srila Prabhupada)

http://www.iskcontimes.com/srila-prabhupada-regarding-nectarean-milk-of-bhagavad-gita/

Sacinandana Swami and Ramesh Baba (pt. 2)

Sorry to have to report this but, we are not all Krishna. Hee hee! 

[PADA: Right, even some of the disciples of these "new gurus" can see that their new guru is -- bogus. That means they accept only what Srila Prabhupada says! Goody! ys pd]  

==========================

Sacinandana Swami & Ramesh Baba

The following open letter to Sacinandana Swami was published on author Hanuman das's Facebook page:

This letter was sent to sacinandana.swami@pamho.net:

Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:17:08 +0000
Subject: open letter - Ramesh baba in Croatia - upcoming havoc

From: Hrvoje Marjanovic

Dear Sacinandana Swami, please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

My name is Hanuman das and I live near Zagreb, Croatia. In this country, you have quite a few disciples. In recent years, I noticed trend in some of them that they became followers and sympathisers of Ramesh baba, sahajiya and mayavadi from Vrindavan.

I did little research and I traced this Ramesh baba affection back to you, I discovered video on the internet in which you take instruction from him. I also have videos of you participating in his bhajans and playing his videos on your vyasa-puja.

So, I am confused, Ramesh baba is mayavadi, he claims that we are all Krishna, and he is also sahajiya, his practice of "devotional service" is watching young girls dance all night. That is practice which is not taught by any acarya in our sampradaya. Plus, he is not initiated into any bona fide sampradaya.

Your disciple Madayanti devi dasi and many others, organised tour for Brajraj Saran, prominent follower of Ramesh baba. This tour included visit to Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia. He was here twice already, in 2013 and again in the beginning of this year.

My mission is now to expose this nonsense and root out sahajiyas from Prabhupada's movement in Croatia. Unfortunately, you are severely implicated in this issue. But, my main target is Ramesh baba, not you, but I in order for me to complete my mission, you will inevitably be pulled into the whole situation.

To protect yourself from the havoc I am going to create very soon, I would suggest some kind of open statement on your website to confirm that Ramesh baba is not bona fide and advising all your disciples to refrain from having any connection with him. This would pretty much solve this issue in a relatively peaceful way.

Also, your ex main disciple in Croatia, Sundarananda was, is publicly sharing Ramesh baba videos on his facebook profile, he opened his own apa-sampradaya in Croatia, disregarding GBC and ISKCON completely, what is your stance on that?

I just started my facebook operation lightly by sharing the above video, and already the whole Croatia knows about it, but in four days, it will become intense bilingual (croatian/english) campaign which will expose all people involved for the whole world to see. We have nothing to hide, sannyasi doesn't have a private life, I hope you understand.

Hoping to resolve this misunderstanding peacefully,

Hanuman das

REF:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2014/11/sacinandana-swamis-ramesh-baba-program.html

Dashavatar Dance from Leicester Temple

Help Needed for Montreal Center

https://www.gofundme.com/2fwt7f6c

Don't Sell the NYC Temple (Prabhupada memories video)

[PADA: "Where will all the devotees go? If you sell this building so many devotees will have no place to go, they will fall down." Right! And selling the building later was "a tragedy of epic proportions." OK, the GBC knew that removing all the devotees from ISKCON would cause most of them to fail and fall. ys pd] 

Institutional Gurus Destroy Institutions

[Papal voting and GBC guru voting are ecclesiastic systems -- condemned by Srila Rupa Goswami] 

[Author will remain anonymous]

In fact some teachers tried a few things to set it right in ISKCON like S. S Bhakti Swarupa Damodar Swami, he was a great devotee and Gour Govinda swami was too. Aindra Dasa was good, and SS Bhakti Vikash Swami is an excellent sannyasi. They worked hard to correct ISKCON, but material interests created from within the society are already deeply rooted. You cannot fix people who do not want to be fixed.  

Plus there is a lot of inside competition and desire for supremacy within their guru group. 

The fall of Gunagrahi dasa prabhuji was only sad for some. This was very good and favourable for others, especially his competitors within the institution. There are those who are going to get a big slice of his followers and zone and assets. And another competitor will be happily adopting the new litter of Gunagrahi's abandoned orphans of iskcon. Some of them almost want the other gurus within the institution to fail, then they can move in and takeover some remnants of the zone and followers. And many are now waiting like vultures to divide up the pie when Jayapataka goes away. 

Guru should be the supreme authority, but this does not work for an institutional guru. Srila Prabhupada said the Pope is just a figurehead, and the guru who is regulated by the institution is a figurehead also.

What do you think about the idea of these personalities like Maha hari, Mahajan, Dristha, Baladeva, and who knows who else? They are working to be the ones who will choose and approve the future gurus of iskcon. Then they will be like the gatekeepers to the throne. So there is another big competition to get this type of power. And these GBC gatekeepers will only allow in those lucky few who agree to support the corrupt status quo, and they agree to work under the authority of the gatekeepers.  

But what if we don't read what Srila Prabhupada said? Be sure that what we read was written by Srila Prabhupada. We'll never know or understand the guru tattva otherwise. These institutions are originally inspired and created by the bona fide gurus, mahantas, but their missions can fall into institutional corruption, and then the guru post fails too. 

Never has an institution with so much political leadership like modern ISKCON, which is so fallible, has ever produced a soul who can save the world. Srila Prabhupada blesses any sincere disciple to follow the instructions and be qualified in order to save others. But they have to be qualified to acquire the power to create a healthy institution and save souls. 

Instead, what usually happens is that once people are inside the institution, included some of the leaders and their disciples who try to be honest, they try to live within iskcon and maybe at the same time live outside, but in the end they too are becoming complicit in all the corruption. They have to support the status quo of GBC false gurus just like people had to worship the Pope in medieval times or be branded a heretic. So most people went along with it.

They all have to agree to the main propaganda that gurus are often falling, and then you'll need another institutional initiation guru, its a business arrangement in their group. They are never going to say, Gunagrahi was never a guru and we made a big mistake giving him that position. They are going to say, Gunagrahi was one of our gurus, but gurus fall down. So now you'll need to accept another one of our gurus that we have pre-chosen for you. And now there is a fight to become one of the people who chooses these gurus. 

They never seem to consider that every time their gurus fall down that dozens or maybe hundreds of people leave the institution. The institution is not their main concern, their little guru fiefdom kingdoms are.   

To maintain their status of gurus, they are dependent on being part of the institutional corruption. You must accept to live within the corruption so as not to lose the institutional support. But if a guru is really heavy, he would be going alone and independent with his own power and not depending on a corrupt institution.  

Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Thakur never ran or supported such concepts as these institutional diversions. 

A guru cannot release other imprisoned souls if he is himself a prisoner of a complicated corporate guru administrative system, with terminal illness corruption. One of many cases is how iskcon Mayapur is guilty of so much disobedience to Prabhupada. Many of their gurus have already publicly admitted widespread corruption of their system, at the same time they say we are gurus who are perfected beings. They are creating confusion on purpose so their system will be able to continue for a few more years. 

So they'll sometimes admit it is all corruption, but then they are going to save others by bringing them into the same corruption system as well. But a man who is already in the prison of institutional corruption and maya cannot bring others out of the prison. They need to save themselves before they can save others.  

A person who is only a guru for years, or maybe only a few hours, before he is caught in corruption, this is a failed system. This then filters down to the local situation where people have to deal with the fact their guru was a cheater. And then it comes out that the rest of the leaders supported him anyway knowing he was bogus, and then this discredits the whole Krishna religion. Of course there are many people today who say they do this on purpose because they want to bring down the religion and destroy it. 

So the end product is that more and more people will reject the entire religion. A religion that cannot even produce proper gurus for its worship is destined to become no longer relevant eventually. People will flee and not come back to take it up. The institutional guru program is killing the ISKCON institution, or at least making it no longer relevant.   

==========================

PADA: For the the sake of the family, one may abandon an individual. For the sake of a village, one may abandon a family. For the country's sake,one may abandon a village. For the sake of the soul, one may abandon the world (Mahabharata 2.55.10)

Krishna in Vrndavana (music video)

A Conversation About Women and ISKCON

ND: Statements may have to do with women acting based on emotions. Men act more based on logical interpretation of the situation. This is based on study.

TS: Oh, I think this may be a lengthy discussion around the ability to separate illusion from truth. And, what so easily draws one into illusion.

VS: You haven't dated much have you ...I'm kidding! Sort of. Anyway, this doesn't really apply to devotees. According to Srila Prabhupada, if a woman is a devotee, judgements have to be made according to qualification and not on the bodily platform, that's it. And if we compare materially speaking, then it has to be on a grand scale wouldn't it?

HF: Material intelligence (parrot learning) can vary for both. But men have greater spiritual intelligence (the ability to see life from a spiritual perspective) because they are generally less attached to their body, bodily comforts, home, family, etc... Whereas women are more attached to these, therefore less spiritually intelligent. That's why in India, we see men becoming renounced monks & going to the Himalayas to meditate, or becoming renounced devotees (sanyasis) simply. But this is speaking for the general population. If given proper spiritual knowledge & training, both men & women can become equally spiritually intelligent.

VS: Atreya Rsi asked Srila Prabhupada if women could be given great responsibilities. Srila Prabhupada answered, "Yes, if they are Krishna Conscious." Then he gave the example of Jahnava, the wife of Nityananda Prabhu, who took charge of the whole Vaishnava community after Nityananda Prabhu's departure. (Atreya Rsi) * "Chanakya Pandita said not to trust those who do not control their senses, politicians and women. But this applies to non-devotee women, not our women, because they do control their senses." (class in Los Angeles 1972) * When a male devotee refused to be instructed by Jadurani, the head of the art department, because of her being a woman, Prabhupada called him in and ordered him to accept her instructions.

"In the Bhagavad-gita we find that women are also equally competent like the men in the matter of Krishna consciousness movement." (letter to Himavati, 1969) * We are Vaishnavas. We are not concerned with male of female position in life. That is simply bodily concept of life. It is not spiritual. Whether one is male or female, it does not matter, simply chant Hare Krishna and follow the four regulative principles and your life will be perfect." (letter to Jennifer, 1975) 

PADA: Unfortunately, many mothers in ISKCON complained to the "men" managers and leaders about the abuses of their children in the gurukula system (which was managed by these men) and these men clearly did not listen. Simply having a so-called man's body does not mean one is automatically more intelligent necessarily, it might mean one should be a better overseer, but one might not be. A person who has the right idea -- has the right idea, man or woman. ys pd

JR: Some women are more intelligent them men. Some even have more common sense. Depends on the person and soul.  When Prabhupada decided to accept women in the movement, he did so according to the reasoning he himself quotes in the Chaitanya Charitamrta, 

PADA: "In the age of Kali, the women and the children, along with brahmaṇas and cows, will be grossly neglected and left unprotected. In this age illicit connection with women will render many women and children uncared for. Circumstantially, the women will try to become independent of the protection of men." - Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.16.21 purport 

[*** So this is what has happened, women were not treated well, even when they reported child abuse it was often ignored, so they are starting to declare their independence from this sort of mis-management. Therefore, these circumstances have to change. These "men" leaders need to act as proper leaders and protect the women, of course had they done that in the first place -- then this issue would never have even arisen. ys pd]

SR: Speaking of this, does anyone else feel that we should not elect a woman president?

MV: So long as it is Elizabeth Warren! 

PADA: Right, a few ISKCON women told me that the Donald Trump phenomena is similar to the current ISKCON situation, he does not respect women very well and so he is alienating many of the women as a group. Again, the ISKCON women were the main people complaining about the child abuse, and the "men leaders" did not respect their opinion, because women were not being respected, i.e. the men as a group did not listen thinking they are "more intelligent," and the result was that many (most?) ISKCON women were and are alienated, and this also produced a giant lawsuit. 

And this is also alienating many of the second generation gurukula children of these mothers who complained and were not heard, because the ex-children also cannot understand why their mothers were ignored as well. So there needs to be some sort of rectification of this process, or it will continue. 

But yes, its ironic, several women told me Donald Trump is the political version of the ISKCON leadership, women are not given their proper place of protection, rights, respect, etc. in both examples. Srila Prabhupada said the duty of the men is to protect the women and children, and if the men are not doing that, they are not actual men. ys pd

VS: That Trump guy is not a good comparison to anyone, being that he has NPD and is clinically insane, and by definition a pathological liar who is TOTALLY unconscious. Hes a predatory codependent and a threat to all, by definition. But, IGNORANCE is a human problem. We all pay the price.

PADA: Well right, Donald Trump is ignorant, and ignorant in part means "to ignore the facts," and that is what happened in ISKCON, the ladies were telling the men leaders there is an abuse problem, these ladies were ignored. Ignore means ignorant, you got it! And we all payed the price for that ignorance. And the women being ignored problem has still not been solved in both cases. ys pd

VS: But whats your point, I mean, we all know this. And these problems will not change overnight. We have to actively practice KC in our own life, to grow, get strength, patience, knowledge, mercy, become balanced etc, spread it to others to the best of our capacity and patiently do all that we can to resolve these issues. Just being outraged isn't going to change much...

PADA: First of all, most devotees do not even recognize that this issue is a problem. Bhakti Vikas swami for example just wrote a book saying that ISKCON women should have no place in managing, they should be having babies living in a village, and he is one of the "men" who was told about all these problems, and he ignored the problems thinking he is "a man." 

Problems are problems, what difference does it make if the person forwarding the problem is a man or woman? And where are his alleged villages where all these women can go? Its simply creating another artificial set of problems -- for women. 

There are no practically functioning varnasrama farms or villages for these women to go and live with their babies, its another example of pushing the women issue aside, by ignoring the issue. Worse, its making an artificial standard, these women should all be living in a village with their babies, but there are no proper GBC managed villages and farm communities being established where these women can go to? Its like telling a person, "You need to drive a Cadillac." "OK, are you going to give me a Cadillac"? "Well, nope." Its artificial.

Ignoring means ignorance. These men have to first of all admit they have failed to listen to the women, instead of doubling down in self righteousness, all based on, they have a male body? They did not listen to the women, that is what happened, and they have not recognized this yet. The first step in fixing a problem is to recognize the problem ... ys pd

ND: Lord Krsna says BG 10.34 Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience.

PADA: Right. These "men" leaders who failed to listen to the women's complaints about the gurukula issues -- and so many other things -- are not factually leaders. Yet they still pose themselves as such even today. And many of these "men leaders" still take away a lot of ISKCON's financial and property resources for their personal lives, while many -- even elderly ISKCON women -- are not given any facility, rather many are often struggling on their own with little or no resources or support, 

So, these women -- some of whom collected millions of dollars -- and who were among those making the complaints should be recognized as the actual leaders, because they were ahead of their time in pointing these issues out. And the situation right now is -- that I personally know a number of ISKCON women who are now somewhat elderly and are struggling very hard with little or no resources, because a few "elite men" are hogging ALL of those resources. 

NONE of these ladies are getting a dozen servants, nice big house, new car, travel expenses, and health care -- that these few elite men are getting. So Vedic society is based on protection of the women, and that is not what has happened. Rather one lady told me recently, ISKCON is like North Korea, the leaders live opulently, while the peasants, not so much opulence and often no resources, health care etc. And thus the women as a class are the most victimized by this process. The point of this conversation is not about how we view and treat our society's women? ys pd

VS: No its not. Pls re read the original post. I think that you are very passionate about all these very valid women issues that you've pointed out, and feel very deeply deeply about them, many of us are. Its very frustrating. ..but its not what the original post is asking about.

PADA: OK, should we trust women when they say there is abuse? Or should we marginalize them and ignore them? I think we should listen to them. Should we marginalize women and allow only a few elite men to hog most or all the resources, while hundreds of women get little or none, -- and a number are struggling just to get by on almost nothing but a government social security hand out? 

I think not. How we view women is also -- how we treat them. We are going to have a discussion about women. Yet NOT discuss: how they are ignored? How they are marginalized? How resources are being hi-jacked from them by a few so-called men? Then what is the point of discussing women if we are not going to discuss them, and isn't this the whole problem from square one, their situation was not discussed, and that is how it has come to this current state of them being marginalized, ignored, and deprived of resources? ys pd

VS: Are you a robot? You are like and abuser yourself.

PADA: Robots have no feelings for anyone else. Yep, that is also what some women have told me, the people who ignore them are like zombie robots. Agreed. And anyone who points out victimization of women is also an abuser? Same psychology of what happens in North Korea, anyone who points out abuses and exploitation is shipped off to the concentration camp prison, because the person pointing to abuses is the real oppressor. 

Its not the regime that is the oppressor, i.e. the victim becomes the criminal. How handy is that! This is how you thinkers created the women exploiting program in the first place, you folks said their complaints are the abusive element. ys pd

TS: Is there more you have to contribute to this discussion outside the points you keep making over and over again? I think it's fair to say all who have read this get it. And now you are making inappropriate generalizations about others. The message you are sending (over and over again) is that since there were (and perhaps still are) some unqualified leaders in ISKCON, that all members of ISKCON are unqualified spiritual seekers. 

And by default, all sincere seekers, Sastra & Srila Prabhupada must be at fault, (i.e, be to blame for all the failings of others). If this is not your position and you have something more constructive to add to the discussion I think you would find a sympathetic and engaged community here. There really is no need to keep screaming about the same points.

PADA: I am asking the same question because, it is not being answered? I said that many ISKCON women are living without facility NOW while many men leaders are living like kings NOW, and this is because women have been marginalized NOW. I said that women advised the men about the gurukula abuses and other things and they were ignored, and the same men who ignored them then are still in charge NOW. 

So if we are going to fix the view of women, and the practical support they need, how are we going to do that practically? That is constructive, we need to make a practical solution to this issue, or else, many women will remain alienated, and lacking facility, and feeling like they were ignored over major issues, because they were, and so on and so forth. 

I did not ever say Srila Prabhupada is at fault, he said women need to be protected, and so on and so forth, and that is not what has been happening. The Bhagavad Gita does NOT say a few elite men should live like kings while elderly ladies are suffering with no facility, no health care, and so forth. I am asking what is your solution, and instead I am being told this is screaming and etc, which does not answer the point at hand. I also never said also that all the seekers are not sincere, these women were and are, so it seems this is straw man argument. ys pd

TS: I think I am not alone in hearing a message you may not have intended, but none-the-less seems loud and clear. This may not be the appropriate forum to solve all the issues at large, but it would be constructive for me to hear you contribute in a way that guides the discussion to a more in depth understanding of Sastra, since this is about the Gita. 

Seeking out the said abusive members towards women (who are not on this thread) would perhaps be constructive. Contributing in a way that separates the symptoms of the disease from the cause of the disease on a more subtle and less gross level would be helpful.

PADA: Shastra needs to be applied practically. If women are equal to men because they are spirit souls, and in fact even snails, ants and mice are our equals because they too are souls, then it would seem to me that women being marginalized, neglected, ignored etc. is a -- lack -- of understanding of shastra. You tell me if that is wrong? I am asking if the teachings of Bhagavad Gita have been understood correctly, aham brahmasmi, then would there be these levels of marginalizing of women and stripping them of resources etc.? At all? You help me answer that. Its a point of siddhanta, and its not a personality issue per se. ys pd

TS: Do you think Srila Prabhupada understood correctly?

PADA: Yes, he wanted women to be protected, he wanted children to be protected, he wanted the seniors and elderly to be protected, and this is not what has been happening -- due to a lack of realization of what he wanted, what shastra says, and a lack of common sense and etc. Its a collective problem. I have Mormon neighbors and they take good care of their women, children, and a few big strong men come over from time to time and they help the old lady over here clean up her house and yard and they bring her food and etc. In other words, in Vedic society, the leader was judged by how well the lowest members were being treated, even the animals. That is the standard of shastra. ys pd

DD: I was asked by a member of this group to delete a number of comments given here because he feels the discussion went in a direction that could perhaps be disruptive to the faith of many people in this group who are new to Krishna consciousness. 

However, I do feel that the issues brought up in the above comments do in fact illustrate PERFECTLY how misunderstanding of scriptural teachings & Srila Prabhupada's statements can lead to gigantic problems for individuals, groups & society as a whole. I am, therefore, going to keep this thread as is. 

Please, everyone who has read or commented on this thread, read my new post & try to see how practical Prabhupada's teachings are. If we follow them, we all benefit; if we misapply them, we all suffer. Even our august society (ISKCON) suffered, & continues to suffer, due to misapplication, which is itself founded in misunderstanding. 

PADA: Goody! ys pd

A woman can be more realized than many, many, many men:

Moon Landing Has Lighting Problem (video)

Leonardo Dicaprio on Future of Earth

http://mashable.com/2016/04/22/dicaprio-un-paris-climate/#ytOWrUfXvOql

[PADA: Its pretty amazing that many people see that the advancement of industrialized society aka Kali Yuga is imperiling the life on this planet. They are right. ys pd] 

Lord Siva Becomes a Gopi

Gopisvara Mahadeva

Once while in deep meditation on Mount Kailash, Lord Siva heard the sweet vibration of Krsna playing His divine flute. Mesmerized, He entered samadhi. He followed that transcendental sound until He came to Vrindavan, where Lord Gopinath was getting ready to start the Maha Raas – Lila with His gopis.

Desiring intensely to join the maha-rasa, when He came to the entrance of the rasa-sthali, He was stopped by Yogamaya, who told him, “No males except Krsna are allowed entry. First you must have gopi-rupa, the form of a Vraja milkmaid, a gopi, only then can you enter.”

Lord Bholanath asked “How can I get gopi-rupa?” Yogamaya replied, “Seek the shelter of Vrinda Devi. She will grant you the form of a gopi.”

Vrinda devi asked Lord Siva to take a dip in the waters of Manasarovara in Vrindavana. After bathing there, Lord Siva emerged from the lake with the form of a beautiful gopi. Vrinda devi then took Lord Siva in her gopi form to one corner of the rasa sthali. Lord Siva stood there and prayed to Sri Sri Radha Krsna for getting prema-bhakti.

Then the rasa started. Lord Krsna danced with all the gopis. He also danced very elegantly with Lord Siva disguised as a gopi.

Then after some time, when they rested, the Lord said ‘I’m not getting the usual pleasure from our rasa. Something is not right. I think there is another man in our midst.” Then He asked Lalita devi to check all the gopis and make sure no man was lurking amongst them dressed as one of them.

Lalita devi went around and lifted the veils of all the hundreds of gopis but couldn’t find any man disguised as a woman. She came and reported to Krishna, “I have not found any man, but there is one gopi with three eyes.” she said puzzled.

Lord Krsna asked her to bring her to Him. When the Lord saw the Siva gopi, He laughed heartily and addressed him, “O Gopisvara, I am very pleased to see you in the form of a gopi. But you know that this rasa is not for grhastas (householders). 

Therefore, since you have already participated and fulfilled your desire, now I offer you the post of rasa dwara pala (gatekeeper of the rasa). I also give you the blessing that henceforth, all the gopis will offer respect to you and seek your blessing to get gopi bhava.” (This pastime is described in the Garga Samhita)

Moral of the story:

Gopisvara means Lord Siva as the controller (isvara) of the gopis. Krishna told him to guard the entrance of the rasa dance and that no one would be allowed to enter the rasa-mandala (place of the rasa dance) without his permission.

“The gopis worshiped Lord Siva in Vrindavan, and the lord is still staying there as Gopisvara. The gopis, however, prayed that Lord Siva bless them by giving them Lord Krsna as their husband. There is no harm in worshipping demigods, provided one’s aim is to return home, back to Godhead.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.30.38 purport)

“A Vaishnava’s visit to the temple of Lord Siva is different from a non devotee’s visit. A Vaishnava sees Lord Siva as being simultaneously one with and different from the Supreme Lord, like yogurt and milk. The Absolute Truth, God, is everything, but this does not mean that everything is God. It is said, vaishnavanam yatha shambhu, or that Lord Siva is the highest Vaishnava.

vrindavanvani pate jaya soma soma
maule sanandana sanatana naradeya
gopishvara vraja vilasi yuganghri padme
prema prayaccha nirupadhi namo namas te

“O Shiva, O gatekeeper of Vrindavan! O you who are accompanied by Uma! O you who carry the moon in your hair! O lord worshiped by Sananda-kumar, Sanat-Kumar and Narada Muni! O Gopishwara, the worshipable deity of the gopis! Desiring that you bestow upon me love for the divine couple, Sri Sri Radha Madhava, who perform joyous pastimes in Vraja, I offer my obeisances unto you again and again.”

Aural Reception Links Us to Krishna

http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/?p=12595

India Water Crisis Worsens

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-36108793

[PADA: Global warming and a lack of sacrifices to God and the demigods, about sums it up. A devotee who is there now reports around 110 degree temps in Vrndavana area and "the desert areas seem to be getting bigger over here." Of course in India they also dump tons of waste into their sacred rivers, which does not help matters at all. ys pd]

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Woman "died and came back" (video)

[PADA: Its interesting that she had terminal cancer, and doctors thought she would die, and yet she was able to "come back" from a coma and cure herself -- by changing her consciousness. There seems to be a lot of "terminal illness" going on in the so-called Krishna community including cancer, and maybe this woman can give our community some helpful advice on this topic. 

Srila Prabhupada does say that mental distress can cause illness, and we believe that is certainly a factor. Anyway, she had an "out of body" experience that brought her back from severe illness, and maybe some form of relating to her experience can help us in our community. ys pd]     

Prabhupada - My Savior - Bangalore Folk

Balaram Rasayatra

https://theharekrishnamovement.org/2016/04/22/balarama-rasayatra/

Artificial Caste Hierarchy Not Sanctioned in Vedas

http://swarajyamag.com/culture/caste-hierarchy-and-discrimination-not-sanctioned-by-the-vedas

Brahmotsava Bangalore

https://www.iskconbangalore.org/festivals/the-eve-of-brahmotsava/

Appearance of Sri Vamsivadana Thakura April 21st

Appearance of Sri Vamsivadana Thakura, Thursday, April 21st, 2016

Sri Vamsivadana Thakura (Vamsivadananda Thakura - Vamsi Dasa) Appearance

Sri Vansivadananda Thakura appeared on the full moon day of the month of Caitra. Within Kuliya exist the villages, Teghari. Beciyava, Bedrapara and Cinedanga. The sons of Srikar Chattopadhyay moved from Bilvagram (Patuli) to Beciyanagram. Sri Sri Yudhisthir Chattopadhyay had three sons: Madhava das (Chakari Chattopadhyoy), Sri Hari dasa (Tin Kari) and Sri Krsna Sampati (Dui Kari).
When Mahaprabhu came from Puri to have darshan of his mother and the river Ganges he stayed for seven days in the house of Madhava dasa at Kulia. At this time he excused Devananda Pandit along with all of the offenses of everyone else. Therefore the place came to be known as 'Aparadh Banjan Pat.'

Sri Vamsi Thakura appeared in the home of Sri Madhava dasa. His mother's name was Srimati Candrakala Devi. Vansivadananda is the incarnation of Sri Krsna's flute. On the day of his birth Mahaprabhu was present in the house of Sri Madhava das, along with Sri Advaita Acarya. Madhava was very devoted to Mahaprabhu and Prabhu was also very affectionate to him and his son Vansi. Vansi das was present at Navadwipa when Acarya Prabhu came there.

Vamsi was engaged in the service of Visnupriya and was the receptacle of her unlimited mercy. One time Visnupriya devi and Vansi Thakura decided to give up taking food and water, there not being any point in maintaining their bodies which were so racked with the pain of separation from Mahaprabhu. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, however, didn't approve of this and manifested Himself before them. Then He requested them not to behave so rashly, and then instructed them both to worship His Deity form in order to mitigate their feelings of separation.

After Visnupriya's disappearance Vamsivadana brought this Deity of Mahaprabhu from Mayapura to Kulia. This Deity of Mahaprabhu is very beautiful and is still being worshipped in the present town of Navadwip. The name of the temple and Deity is Dhameswara. It is said that the name Vansivadananda is carved into the underneath of the base of the Deity.

When his descendent, Ramacandra Gosvami came to live at Baghna Para by the mercy of Jahnava Mata, the worship of the Deity passed into the hands of the residents of Malancha.

There was a Deity of Gopinath at Kulic worshipped by Vamsi's ancestors and he personally installed a Deity of Pranaballabha at their home in Kulia. Where these Deities are at present is unknown. Vamsi Thakur resided at Bilvagram for some time with his relatives there. He had two sons, Sri Caitanya dasa and Sri Nityananda dasa. The two sons of Caitanya dasa were Sri Rama­candra and Sri Sacinandana. Ramacandra was the adopted son and disciple of Jahnava Mata. He established the worship of Sri Sri Kanai Balai at Baghna Para. As he never married the worship passed on to his brother Sacinandana whose descendants are the resident Gosvamis there.

Sri Vansivadananda was a poet and composer of songs. He composed one song about the Lord's acceptance of sannyasa based on the lamentations of Sri Sacimata and Sri Visnupriya. Some say that Ramai (Ramacandra Gosvami), the son of Caitanya dasa (Vansi Thakura's son) Gosai was an incarnation of Vansi Thakura.

Srila Prabhupada Glorifies Ramanuja (pt.2)

http://www.iskcontimes.com/srila-prabhupapda-glorifies-sripada-ramanujacharya-part-2/

Jnanagamya's Book Published

http://monksinmanhattan.com/

[PADA: I really have a hard time understanding how so many people can drift off into these sort of side show "writing a novel" endeavors when ISKCON has been going down the river. He was making a comedy novel movie about some woman who falls in love with a devotee, while the actual society is going through a severe drama. Perhaps the real story is too much trouble so its better to make a fiction novel. Anyway, if this inspires anyone, good, its just not my cup of tea. (Jnanagamya is now deceased and we wish him well in his next life's endeavors.) ys pd]    

Kailash / Torben Nielsen / Ajit Krishna / Attacking Jesus?

Kailash Chandra das -- Rocana's ghost writer.

KAILASH CHANDRA: ". .. And I say Franco that kirtanananda is wrong and you are right when you say that the movement will come to nothing if I'm not satisfied with your actions." Letter to damodar, 13-10-67 from Calcutta (emphasis added)

[PADA: Kailash has himself come down to being "a nothing and a nobody" because he says exactly what Kirtanananda has been saying, that we need to worship a "living person" because Srila Prabhupada is the posthumous, post samadhi, post mortem, previous and past acharya. Thus! We need to worship the living person. Technically this is called "vapuh-vada," or the worship of a live body. 

Hah hah! 

Except PADA and others have exposed Kailash's "living gurus" so badly, Kailash and his folks can NO LONGER even give us the name of their living gurus anymore, because ALL of their live gurus have been shamed so badly. So Kailash / Ajit / Torben / Rocana have simply become the parrot disciples of Kirtanananda, who have all declared that pure devotees are post mortem dead folks. Why do these people always parrot Kirtanananda, that we need to worship a living person because Srila Prabhupada is posthumous? That means their guru is Kirtanananda! Yep, as soon as Kirtanananda says something, they are licking his boots and repeating it! 

World Headquarters of Kailash Chandra, Moab Utah

And worse, Kailash / Ajit / Torben say Kirtanananda is right, worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus because its like "Christianity," and again this is bogus because the Christians do not worship "the living person." Meanwhile, Kailash / Torben / Ajit forgot to tell us who their living person is? And Srila Prabhupada says -- without Jesus there would be no culture and civilization in the West. Is that what we want? Why are these guys attacking Jesus when Srila Prabhupada says "Jesus is our guru"? So worship of Jesus or Srila Prabhupada is bogus, yet they fail to tell us who to worship instead? 

They cannot even identify the person they claim they worship as their living person, and they never will because we all know they are giant bluffers. So they are essentially saying we need to worship no one, who is no where, who has no books, no temples, no devotees, no deity, no existence, other than in their imaginations. Why can't they even identify "who" is the person they want us to worship instead of Srila Prabhupada? Or Jesus? 

Worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus Christianity, that is what Ravindra Swarupa / Kirtanananda and other GBC's have said as well. Why have they surrendered to repeating the leaders of the bogus messiahs project? And why is worship of Jesus a bogus process, when Srila Prabhupada says he is a pure devotee of God?  

Meanwhile, Kailash allegedly lives in Moab Utah, which is exclusively a Christian town, there are no Krishna temples there. So Kailash says the Christians are all bogus, and then he surrenders to living in the Christian's society? If association with the worship of the post mortem Jesus is "contamination," why is Kailash associated with them 24/7 full time and all the time? Why doesn't Kailash live with the devotees, and he chooses to live as a sort of hermit -- with the Christians.   

Again! And exactly what is wrong with worshiping a pure devotee like Jesus anyway? Why is Kailash living with the Christians, meanwhile saying they are deviants, fools, rascals and "contamination" because they worship the "post mortem dead person," aka Jesus? Why is he not living where his living guru lives? Or does he even have a living guru?]    

"There are schools, for example, or systems, which, although they don't make it in this way, they are actually based on a fake personality and in fight against consciousness. Such work should certainly produce erroneous results. In the beginning it will create a certain kind of strength, but will the development of higher consciousness an impossibility." - ounspensky"

[PADA: Well yes, worship of Kailash in Moab Utah makes it impossible to develop, hee hee.]

" the vision of Christ '

What you see
It's the greatest
Enemy of my vision.

- WM. Blake (adapted)

The vision of Christ is: The greatest enemy of my vision?

[PADA: What? The vision of Christ is our greatest enemy? It seems that Kailash / Torben / Ajit program are misquoting someone out of context? Anyway, why is "the vision of Christ" "the greatest enemy of my vision." Why are they saying that the vision of Christ is their greatest enemy, unless they are envious of Jesus? 

The vision of Jesus is our greatest enemy? Well that is exactly what Beelzebub says! Why are they on the same page as Beelzebub? And why is Rocana also promoting this Kailash guy's program? Again, Torben and Ajit ALSO live in a Christian country, why are they promoting people who are saying worship of the pure devotee Jesus is "the enemy of my vision"? 

What kind of demoniac vision is this, Jesus is our enemy? This simply proves that they are envious of pure devotees, pure devotees are the enemy of our vision. Jesus is a pure devotee, and he is the enemy of my vision?] 

You say that the manufactured called "ISKCON MOVEMENT" is still going strong and growing despite so many deviations that supposedly have now come and gone. 

[PADA: Kailash and Rocana have been the biggest promoters of this living guru deviation?] 

I say that you're completely confused in this assessment. You say that the neo-Gaudiya Matt is even, in some way or another, representing Srila Prabhupada in such a way that his devotees will soon be joining him in the spirit world. I say that you need to check your premises. You say that the rittviks are a real group and bringing so many devotees to krishna consciousness which would otherwise not unite, and I say that the apasiddhanta rittvik is nothing more than baked on "Christianity" with a look that almost covering her east. .

[PADA: The living guru idea comes from the Gaudiya Matha. And worship of the acharya is apa-siddhanta? What is the correct siddhanta then?]

There can be no unity where there is compromise. The many and various factions that have developed over the years, and they are working at cross-purposes. The result of this bad turn of events is that what was meant was the hare krishna movement of krishna consciousness is being driven into the crapper. 

[PADA: Kailash and his bogus living gurus program is what drove the movement into the crapper?]

We must develop a negative attitude towards healthy moment forward inauspicioso. Rolling around in a hope against hope for "UNITY" is not useful for the development of consciousness of krishna in this time. Only when the leaders of the various factions become honest (honest), Serious, most scholars, and more afortundados they wake up and understand that the only way to get out of this dance of death is to get back to you honest.

(the unforgivable, by kailasa
Chandra Das)

[PADA: Kailash and his disciples like Ajit and Torben cannot even identify who their living guru is? They are not only dishonest, Srila Prabhupada says people who cannot name their guru are MAYAVADAS (atheists). First of all we have to ask, why cannot Rocana / Kailash / Torben / Ajit even name their living guru? 

Because! This is all bluff, we have to worship a living guru, yet we cannot mention who he is? But! We do know for sure that the worship of Jesus and Prabhupada is "the enemy." No wonder these guys have had to surrender to the Christian culture in Moab, the Christians at least CAN identify their guru, and so the Moab Christians at least have a society. Kailash has nothing. 

[PADA: We cannot change the Gita, but we have to worship the people who are giving Jayadvaita millions of dollars to print his bogus books as our "living gurus"? And we need to promote the people who think Jesus is the enemy of our vision?]

[PADA: Torben Nielsen, he says we all need to listen to Kailash Chandra, so we can learn that the vision of Jesus is our enemy?]

[PADA: Meanwhile, the Prahlad / Dayalu Nitai HKC Jaipur folks have sent all sorts of articles condemning our Prabhupada worship program as "liars and offenders" to the Torben and Ajit program, to help them "defeat PADA" i.e. to stop people from the worship of pure devotees. And they have also sent them articles that Bangalore is also bad, again, anyone who worships Srila Prabhupada is bogus. 

Why do we need to assist the people who are against our worship of pure devotees process so they can "defeat" that process? Isn't that what Kirtanananda would have wanted? Lets "defeat PADA," and help people follow the idea that the vision of pure devotees is our enemy? Why are these guys always giving ammunition to the people who are totally against the worship of Srila Prabhupada?  

Of course, the people these guys make into their allies are not only anti-Prabhupada but also anti-Jesus for that matter? We need to join forces with -- and aid and assist -- the people who are declaring that the acharyas are post mortem dead guys? We need to assist the people who think the vision of Jesus is -- our enemy? Why have the Prahlad and these HKC folks become the hand maidens of this agenda? 

These folks also claim they are on the side of worship of Srila Prabhupada, but then they are always attacking anyone who actually promotes Srila Prabhupada, simultaneously, they are sending ammunition to the anti-Prabhupada and anti-Jesus program. Why on earth do they feel the need to help the program that says the vision of pure devotees is our enemy? 

Can you guys try to make up your minds here? Either PADA is right, or these guys are right, you cannot be on both sides at the same time? So, why are you helping the anti-Prabhupada and anti-Jesus folks all the time? Lets defeat PADA and help Beelzebub!   

Anyway! We are not too worried, the worship of Krishna is spontaneously flowing like a river to the ocean, and the same goes for worship of HIS pure devotees. People are attracted to the worship of Jesus and Prabhupada without our help in many cases, most people just want to do that spontaneously. 

All we need to do is assist by paddling down river with the spontaneous flow ourselves. And then Krishna will do the rest, and He is doing the rest, He is wiping these guys out gradually. How many people favor the live guru process these days? How many people want to move to Moab and surrender to the anti-Jesus Kailash program? OK, not too many folks are packing up their bags to go there! How many people want to worship Jesus and Prabhupada? Lots! Even the people in Moab (except Kailash of course) all want to worship Krishna's pure devotees like Jesus. Time is on our side, big time!       
ys pd]