Folks in India made fools into his "successors"
By Pratyatosa das
If Srila Prabhupada can say “American boys and girls” dozens of times, then what’s wrong with saying “American gurus?” Do you also think that Prabhupada, by talking in this way, has proven that he is on the bodily platform?
Please keep in mind that it’s the American “gurus” who, more than any other group, have ruined ISKCON’s reputation. Therefore, they, as a notorious group of losers, deserve to be criticized.
Also, please keep in mind that making propaganda in India against the “American gurus” might be helping the Bangalore side of the ISKCON Mumbai vs. ISKCON Bangalore court case by taking advantage of prejudice against Westerners putting themselves forward as being more spiritually advanced than Indians. We should be “doing whatever it takes to win,” not getting hung up on terminology.
Ys, Pratyatosa Dasa
Reply from Janardan Das to Vaikunthanath
Hare Krishna Vaikunthanath Prabhu,
Well put. Please be careful though in inadvertently propagating/implying this philosophy that the Westerners are to blame, and the Indians are all pure Vaisnavas.
Perhaps you are personally innocent of this, but it is essentially bogus propaganda which has been used to cheaply attract the mind of many Indians. We must remember that it was also Indian disciples of Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajacacharya Bhaktisiddhahta Maharaj Goswami who also ignored his instructions simply for name, fame and recognition, by appointing themselves also as Acharyas, thus eviscerating the Guadiya Matha.
This human tendency is not presupposed by skin colour. Always remain conscious of this. Many innocent Westerners (who helped build up the movement) were completely cheated and forced out by the offenders.
Our preaching must be pure and beyond reproach in order to have the desired effect. This means eliminating pride and not preaching on the bodily platform.
Please accept this offering in the mood it was intended, that is, not an attack on your good and noble self, but simply to address an issue which I believe is a concern of His Divine Grace.
Your servant,
Janardan Das
Comment by Balaram das
Thank you to Vaikunthanath & Janardan prabhus for these comments. Could you please advise where to find Rupanuga das’ comment that is being replied to. I have seen a few but would appreciate the reference for continuity.
[PADA: I am not sure if this is the original Rupanuga das (Alachua Florida). He has said all along that people cannot understand Srila Prabhupada's books without him and his "senior devotee" advisors. And what Rupanuga's "senior advisor" group has "advised" is that ISKCON needs to abandon the worship of Srila Prabhupada as the exclusive acharya -- and we have to accept Rupanuga's conditioned souls as our acharyas, and he has promoted various deviants as ISKCON's gurus, thus creating a program of -- book changing, banning, beating, molesting and murders, and giant lawsuits etc. as a result.
In 1986 Rupanuga's program re-instated Bhavananda as their "Vishnupada" acharya, because apparently homosexuals who are having "sex with taxi drivers in the holy dham" should be worshiped "as good as God." The same homosexual acharya's recoronation ceremonials people then "voted in" people like Ravindra swarupa, Badrinarayan, Prithu, Bhakti Vikas, Gaura Govinda and others as the successors to their "sex with taxi drivers" acharya. Rocana was a big exponent of this group at the time, and he still says we need to vote in more acharyas under this concept, we just need to monitor their misbehavior better.
So it seems both Westerners and India folks have been promoting a deviant and even homosexual acharya's program, and people from all sectors including India's Gaura Govinda and Bhakti Caru wanted to get "certified as acharya" by this group.
Can someone finally explain exactly what is a "successor to sex with taxi drivers" acharya? Sulochana was also excommunicated in 1986 because he said homosexuals (who are having sex with taxi drivers) are NOT acharyas, and many Western and India type people condemned Sulochana equally. Narayan Maharaja for example later on said we are "poisonous" for rejecting his (and Tamal's) bogus acharya's program -- and he is supposed to be an India pundit. Narayana Maharaja should have been leading us and the world out of illusion, instead, he was supporting the "sex with taxi driver's" acharya's project.
NM also said that the founder fathers of his 1936 homosexual acharya's program are bona fide acharyas as well. The founder fathers of the worship of bi-sexual deviants who have dissenters murdered are -- bona fide acharyas? Then again, there are a number of people in India who think Mother Amma is an incarnation of Durga. There is clearly a lot of sentimentality in India.
Anyway, Rupanuga, Rocana, Bhakti Caru swami, Gopal Krishna swami and ilk still think they were right to promote their foolish pals as acharyas and this is something "Srila Prabhupada authorized." He didn't.
I received initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada in Feb 1973 and served as his ritvik representative from ’75 until his vapu departure by recommending initiates to him for 1st & 2nd initiations as temple president. I still have his original letters requesting me to perform yajna formalities for his new disciples. My regret is that during the 80s as TP, I supported the ‘zonal mafia system’ until I resigned in 89,due to disallusionment with gbc & guroo ‘falldowns’.
1) Stealing his disciples & daksine by not following his final order… (my disciples>>you are ritvik only).
2) Changing the written words of his translations and even his Bhaktivedanta Purports.
Your humble street-sweeper servant,
Balaram das
Of course we have "Western" gurus like Bhakti Vikas Swami, who has almost all India followers, because he cannot come to the West and preach his idea that God's acharyas are often degraded fools and debauchees, it just won't fly over here. Yep, he is a person who was voted in as acharya by the "sex with taxi drivers messiah's club" leaders, a program which has no credibility here in the West. No wonder then the Mahatma das, Gunagrahi and Hrdayananda ilk are trying to repackage their idea, lets see, if we place our "sex with taxi driver's messiahs" project into a new box, we can sell it! Nope!
Mostly, Western people only accept that pure devotees are like Jesus, so Bhakti Vikas types pretty much avoid preaching in the West, because as soon as he begins preaching his idea that acharyas are often engaged in illicit sex, drugs, crimes, offering LSD to the deity, and watching pornography etc., he will be laughed out of the West.
As soon as Bhakti Vikas swami announces "I am voted in as the sex with taxi driver's acharya's program successor," he will never make it in the West. He is the "guru successor" to sex with taxi drivers? This cannot fly in the West, and it seems to be in trouble in India. And it is in trouble in India because folks are reading what we Western folks wrote in the 1980s, i.e. sex with taxi driver guru paramparas are bogus, worship of the pure devotee is bona fide, and thus more people in India are taking up our proposal to reject that system.
So these Bhakti Vikas type guys stick to mainly India where they can preach their sahajiya ideas that pure devotees are often taxi driver sex debauchees. In sum these GBC guru guys know they cannot make their molester messiah's program work over here very well. Why? Most Westerners ALREADY agree with Srila Prabhupada that the acharya has to be pure, so these guys cannot penetrate their debauchee pooja program over here very easily. Of course they banned, beat and killed us trying to make it work, but it won't fly in the end.
Thank God we have Srila Prabhupada's books or we would have to accept these "senior devotees" as our authority, and we would all think that debauchees are commonly found in the parampara from Krishna. At the same time, Srila Prabhupada specifically told Rupanuga das to be the watchdog of ISKCON and make sure we do not take advise from bogus INDIA swamis and authorities like SRIDHARA MAHARAJA, and follow his idea to make conditioned souls into gurus, but Rupanuga went along with this deviation and he helped promote Sridhara Maharaja and his policy of making conditioned fools into acharyas.
And in fact Rupanuga's entire idea that we need to appoint and vote in conditioned souls as acharyas, and then censure. monitor, suspend and remove these acharyas when they deviate, all comes from copying SRIDHARA MAHARAJA's policy. In other words Rupanuga not only became the fox guarding the hen house, he allowed in hundreds of more foxes to eat up the hens.
He is an un-official disciple of the bogus Gaudiya Matha folks, he agrees with all their deviations and he applied them and their deviations to ISKCON. Thus, these deviations from India were slipped into ISKCON by Westerners like Rupanuga and his team.
And various India folks then became the HAND MAIDENS of the bogus Western gurus and their program, and shortly after "the 11" started off in 1978 they voted in "India bodied gurus" like Gopal Krishna and Svarupa Damodar early on, so they could claim INDIA folks agreed with their system. And that is also why they made Sridhara, Narayana, BV and BP Puri maharajas and others from India as their "advisors."
Apparently, reinstating sex with taxi drivers has been done previously in India because they all said "we follow the tradition." No wonder Rupanuga tells people not to listen to the books alone, because we cannot find their sex with taxi drivers acharyas program in these books.]
Yes Janardan prabhu, I would expect there are just as many ‘Western’ ritviks as there are ‘Indian’ ritviks who follow Srila Prabhupada’s authorized system for the continuation of the initiation process. Here in Australia, most of us are ‘out of the closet’, but there are still many who just perform their deity puja and have nought to do with admin ... that’s their choice.
I think even a cursory look at the list of guroos & gbc would reveal many of Indian ‘nationality’ who have whole heartedly embraced the bogus zonal/rubber-stamp invention just as the western bodied crims have done. They are all ‘tarred with the same brush’ = PAD!
He is an un-official disciple of the bogus Gaudiya Matha folks, he agrees with all their deviations and he applied them and their deviations to ISKCON. Thus, these deviations from India were slipped into ISKCON by Westerners like Rupanuga and his team.
And various India folks then became the HAND MAIDENS of the bogus Western gurus and their program, and shortly after "the 11" started off in 1978 they voted in "India bodied gurus" like Gopal Krishna and Svarupa Damodar early on, so they could claim INDIA folks agreed with their system. And that is also why they made Sridhara, Narayana, BV and BP Puri maharajas and others from India as their "advisors."
Apparently, reinstating sex with taxi drivers has been done previously in India because they all said "we follow the tradition." No wonder Rupanuga tells people not to listen to the books alone, because we cannot find their sex with taxi drivers acharyas program in these books.]
Yes Janardan prabhu, I would expect there are just as many ‘Western’ ritviks as there are ‘Indian’ ritviks who follow Srila Prabhupada’s authorized system for the continuation of the initiation process. Here in Australia, most of us are ‘out of the closet’, but there are still many who just perform their deity puja and have nought to do with admin ... that’s their choice.
I think even a cursory look at the list of guroos & gbc would reveal many of Indian ‘nationality’ who have whole heartedly embraced the bogus zonal/rubber-stamp invention just as the western bodied crims have done. They are all ‘tarred with the same brush’ = PAD!
[PADA: Correct, the main group of current congregation followers of the GBC's gurus are India bodied people, and they also are the biggest supporters of their temples in the West like Bhaktivedanta Manor. There has also been many India bodied GBC sannyasas and gurus, as well as the GBC's main congregation members, ... in sum the GBC's gurus would have fallen apart a long time ago without help from India bodied gooroos like Narayana Maharaja, Gopal Krishna, Bhakti Caru and many others; and without India supporters their temples would have collapsed a long time ago. At the same time this does not get the mainly Western original bogus guru conspirators off the hook.]
I received initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada in Feb 1973 and served as his ritvik representative from ’75 until his vapu departure by recommending initiates to him for 1st & 2nd initiations as temple president. I still have his original letters requesting me to perform yajna formalities for his new disciples. My regret is that during the 80s as TP, I supported the ‘zonal mafia system’ until I resigned in 89,due to disallusionment with gbc & guroo ‘falldowns’.
I was fortunate to receive a manuscript-type copy of Krsna Kant prabhu’s ‘The Final Order’ in ’96, not knowing how they even had my address. I dismissed it at first, thinking just another bogus off-shoot, but after a short time the REALITY of the offense against His Divine Grace became very clear.
If that system as he ordained was still in place, ISKCON would certainly be a wonderful society, as opposed to the fabricating, cheating & corruption etc that we see today from the top down.
The leaders, both Indian & ‘western’ must be held accountable for the 2 great offenses to His Divine Grace, ie
If that system as he ordained was still in place, ISKCON would certainly be a wonderful society, as opposed to the fabricating, cheating & corruption etc that we see today from the top down.
The leaders, both Indian & ‘western’ must be held accountable for the 2 great offenses to His Divine Grace, ie
1) Stealing his disciples & daksine by not following his final order… (my disciples>>you are ritvik only).
2) Changing the written words of his translations and even his Bhaktivedanta Purports.
Your humble street-sweeper servant,
Balaram das
[PADA: Well the good news is that all of this is finally being discussed more openly. First of all "Westerners" like me and Sulochana tried to ring the alarm bells on this in the 1980s, and it seems our idea is finally starting to be noticed more and more, and its filtering into India gradually.
It is somewhat ironic that the main people to write dissent papers to these bogus gurus have been Westerners like me, Sulochana, Nityananda, Yasodanandan, Rupa Vilas, Karnamrta and a few similar others, and it took many years before a few India bodied folks like Krishna Kanta Desai read our papers and he started to copy and paste and cite our points.
It is somewhat ironic that the main people to write dissent papers to these bogus gurus have been Westerners like me, Sulochana, Nityananda, Yasodanandan, Rupa Vilas, Karnamrta and a few similar others, and it took many years before a few India bodied folks like Krishna Kanta Desai read our papers and he started to copy and paste and cite our points.
Of course we have "Western" gurus like Bhakti Vikas Swami, who has almost all India followers, because he cannot come to the West and preach his idea that God's acharyas are often degraded fools and debauchees, it just won't fly over here. Yep, he is a person who was voted in as acharya by the "sex with taxi drivers messiah's club" leaders, a program which has no credibility here in the West. No wonder then the Mahatma das, Gunagrahi and Hrdayananda ilk are trying to repackage their idea, lets see, if we place our "sex with taxi driver's messiahs" project into a new box, we can sell it! Nope!
Mostly, Western people only accept that pure devotees are like Jesus, so Bhakti Vikas types pretty much avoid preaching in the West, because as soon as he begins preaching his idea that acharyas are often engaged in illicit sex, drugs, crimes, offering LSD to the deity, and watching pornography etc., he will be laughed out of the West.
As soon as Bhakti Vikas swami announces "I am voted in as the sex with taxi driver's acharya's program successor," he will never make it in the West. He is the "guru successor" to sex with taxi drivers? This cannot fly in the West, and it seems to be in trouble in India. And it is in trouble in India because folks are reading what we Western folks wrote in the 1980s, i.e. sex with taxi driver guru paramparas are bogus, worship of the pure devotee is bona fide, and thus more people in India are taking up our proposal to reject that system.
So these Bhakti Vikas type guys stick to mainly India where they can preach their sahajiya ideas that pure devotees are often taxi driver sex debauchees. In sum these GBC guru guys know they cannot make their molester messiah's program work over here very well. Why? Most Westerners ALREADY agree with Srila Prabhupada that the acharya has to be pure, so these guys cannot penetrate their debauchee pooja program over here very easily. Of course they banned, beat and killed us trying to make it work, but it won't fly in the end.
Even as of today, only a few of the Indian type folks write counter position papers although more of them accept our idea that the acharyas are not deviants. There are still not many writers from the India side at present. In any case its a big mistake to make this a nationality issue, people are in illusion all over the place on this issue, and in the 1936 Gaudiya Matha there were no Westerners at all who made their sexual predator acharya's program. This can happen in any place that people want fools to be their messiahs.
At the same time, at least a few of us Westerners will get credit for writing opposing position papers, and that means Srila Prabhupada was right to trust that at least a few Westerners would listen to his idea and help carry it forward. Right now, India folks are catching up, so that means his ideas have universal application, i.e. everyone everywhere should worship pure devotees, its not actually a nationality issue ultimately.
We can however thank Jesus for giving us Westerners the idea that pure devotees are not debauchees, that has protected the West from these GBC guys preaching their debauchee messiahs project over here. The GBC and their dedicated followers of Bhakti Vikas swami ilk can preach all day long that God's successors are often debauchees, this will never fly over here, period. And we can offer obeisances to Jesus for making that odious idea almost impossible to sell over here. Anyway India is catching up, thus soon we will all be on the same page, i.e. accepting the orders of the acharya, that is the good news. ys pd]
We can however thank Jesus for giving us Westerners the idea that pure devotees are not debauchees, that has protected the West from these GBC guys preaching their debauchee messiahs project over here. The GBC and their dedicated followers of Bhakti Vikas swami ilk can preach all day long that God's successors are often debauchees, this will never fly over here, period. And we can offer obeisances to Jesus for making that odious idea almost impossible to sell over here. Anyway India is catching up, thus soon we will all be on the same page, i.e. accepting the orders of the acharya, that is the good news. ys pd]
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